Activists: NKorean executed for distributing Bible

[Coventina]

Source: Associated Press

SEOUL, South Korea — A Christian woman accused of distributing the Bible, a book banned in communist North Korea, was publicly executed last month for the crime, South Korean activists said Friday.

The 33-year-old mother of three, Ri Hyon Ok, also was accused of spying for South Korea and the United States, and of organizing dissidents, a rights group said in Seoul, citing documents obtained from the North.

The Investigative Commission on Crime Against Humanity report included a copy of Ri's government-issued photo ID and said her husband, children and parents were sent to a political prison the day after her June 16 execution.

The claim could not be independently verified Friday, and there has been no mention by the North's official Korean Central News Agency of her case.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5htjkn2uYbcOJC8azoyb2TkOh6B4AD99KTRGG4

[David__77]

1. N. Korea view:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/175.html

It's interesting. I wonder if it really true that one cannot own a bible... I wonder if one may read it, but only government-approved copies. Either way, clearly, there is not freedom of religion.

[Posteritatis]

2. Considering the Kims are half-deified, the government probably considers it apostacy. (nt)

[anonymous171]

3. Wow

[ohio2007]

4. There is only one god worshipped in N.Korea

and kim jong ill is his holy name

[AlphaCentauri]

5. Sad that those RWs in the US make Christians around the world

look like employees of corporations.

When anti US groups start relating Christianity to the US government ( A nation under God ) and money ( in God we trust ) then Christianity has a real problem to fix.

[JonQ]

81. I think it's more that

they associate religion, any religion, with being anti-kim rather than necessarily pro-US. Any worship of any other deity than kim is treason (as kim il jong is the holy father of the nation, and he is a jealous god, tolerated no competition).

They just throw the US/south Korea in to every argument because they've essentially built us up as the devil, the cause of all their problems. So every individual they execute was in league with the devil.

North Korea is essentially a theocracy with a slightly different slant.

[2QT2BSTR8]

6. North Korea 'executes Christians'

Source: BBC

Human rights groups in South Korea say North Korea has stepped up executions of Christians, some of them in public.

The communist country, the world's most closed society, views religion as a major threat.

Only the founder of the country, Kim Il-sung, and his son, Kim Jong-il, may be worshipped, in mass public displays of fervour.

Despite the persecutions, it is thought up to 30,000 North Koreans may practise Christianity secretly in their homes.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8167644.stm

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. We should send "our" religious reichers over there

Then they can know what "anti Christian bigotry" actually means.

[marshall]

84. We do have it pretty good over here, by comparison

Whether you're Christian or gay or whatever, the level of treatment and discrimination in the US is nothing compared to being killed by your own government.

[MichaelHarris]

8. That's gonna piss

John Birch off.

[ConcernedCanuk]

9. North Korea has killed how many across the globe?

.
.
.

USA has killed . . .

anyone getting this?

thought not.

[proteus_lives]

22. Typical jackassery.

:eyes:

[chrisa]

41. North Korea is run by a deviant troll.

Nobody knows how many people North Korea killed because their populace is either starving to death or being shot by their own military. The US doesn't kidnap journalists because they live in a gigantic fortress that needs to bully people so that it doesn't starve to death.

[Psephos]

45. what a tool n/t

[Naturyl]

46. Does the US have active concentration camps imprisoning 200k?

Kim Jong-Il does. And these aren't comparable to American prisons. They are Nazi-style work/death camps.

[Chulanowa]

63. One question, though...

How do we know?

Honestly, there's not a lot of information about anything that comes out of North Korea, period. The odds of ALL of it being completely damning and damaging to the regime are pretty slim. What assurance do we have that it's not simply propagandists giving us another version of "iraqi troops killing Kuwaiti babies"?

[Naturyl]

68. I've researched it a bit and seen considerable support for the claims.

There are DPRK survivors and defectors who have spoken out. There are Google Earth satellite images. There is quite a bit of data supporting the existence of the camps.

Google "north korea concentration camps" and a lot of info will turn up. Not all of it is politically-motivated.

[ConcernedCanuk]

80. Probably not, but the USA is responsible for MILLIONS of deaths

.
.
.

just with it's two Bush wars on Iraq

now let's think about where else the US Military has used it's "might"

And talking about USA's own people;

how many prisoners does the USA have just for smoking or dealing pot?

Weed smokers are a pretty mellow crowd

Make poor warriors ya know?

Ponder . . .

[XemaSab]

57. Let's round up and kill all the buddhists!

You see how it's not analogous?

[Zynx]

70. North Korea's death toll on its own citizens is vast.

In the last twenty years it is easily over two million.

[hack89]

83. Besides the millions during Korean War ?

they have been to busy killing their own population.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sultana]

11. Where is the outrage, DU?

If NK was executing Muslims this thread would have a much different tone.

:grr:

May God watch over the Christians in NK. Ameen!

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Seeking Serenity]

13. Or executing peace activists or environmental activists.

Oh, but those are people we like, so there would be outrage over that.

Christians, not so much.

Reminds me of a woman I used to know, very progressive politics, but a big blind spot to her own hate (as she railed against "hate'). She had a t-shirt that she thought was very cute, which read, "So Many Christians, So Few Lions."

Even progressives can fail to see the beams in their own eyes. A human thing, I guess.

[BOG PERSON]

15. "So Many Christians, So Few Lions."

That is cute! :)

[Seeking Serenity]

17. Yep, Just about as cute (in sentiment) as

"So many progressives, so few bullets."

Yep, that's real progressive. Yup.

[BOG PERSON]

19. Well that depends on what you mean by progressive.

What is progress, which way is forward, who's setting the direction, et cetera. This notion of progress (of which there are as many definitions as there are "directions") is something that can be manipulated by established power to assert control/domination over others.

[greguganus]

47. I bet you think "So Many Jews, So Few Ovens" is cute too, huh?n/t

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CBHagman]

77. True words, and they bear repeating.

Oh, but those are people we like, so there would be outrage over that.

Christians, not so much.

Reminds me of a woman I used to know, very progressive politics, but a big blind spot to her own hate (as she railed against "hate'). She had a t-shirt that she thought was very cute, which read, "So Many Christians, So Few Lions."

Even progressives can fail to see the beams in their own eyes. A human thing, I guess.

Everyone has the tendency to blind spots, even moral blind spots.

[izquierdista]

14. 30,000!

I'll bet it's less than that. I don't think 30,000 North Koreans get to practice Sunday dinner.

[Posteritatis]

36. Keep in mind they don't specify a timeframe (nt)

[and-justice-for-all]

18. As big of an Atheist that I am...

I can not justify the killing of people for their beliefs.

No matter how irrational I think they may be, killing is going to far.

Kim Jong-il has a God complex, he thinks of himself as being a God and wants for no one to worship anyone but him.

[IndianaGreen]

20. North Korea is a psychotic country

but it is another issue to ask people that have themselves been persecuted by fundamentalists to feel anything about this story. I don't feel anything!

[and-justice-for-all]

21. That is rather harsh dont you think? nt

[LanternWaste]

23. I imagine that

"I don't feel anything!"

I imagine that since emotions are practically infinite, there are enough people who do feel to make up for the lack of those who don't...

I suppose an individual who is minimized by his culture may either minimize others in retaliation, or attempt to break a cycle which does no one no good. It seems to be a rather dramatic crossroad you stand on, and I hope the choice you eventually make is based on who you are rather than reacting to the perceptions of others.

[IndianaGreen]

25. North Korea is a major human rights abuser

However, I was answering the specific post about "Where is the outrage, DU?" My honest answer is that I didn't feel anything.

[LanternWaste]

27. based on a summation of your posts on this thread rather than

My response to you was based on a summation of your posts on this thread rather than one specific statement.

I think that the deprivations of humanity knows few bounds, nor does its compassion. And if we define a person, or a group, or an organization as only one or the other, I think we do a disservice to ourselves more than anyone else.

Take it for what it's worth (a cup of coffee and a bagel on a good day).

[jeff30997]

39. I truly feel sad for you.

So much emptiness. :(

[proteus_lives]

26. Yeah, because all those NKer's voted for Prop 8.

:eyes:

[Faygo Kid]

30. dupe. delete

[Faygo Kid]

31. What about Christians who AREN'T fundamendalists? Like, my family?

You are one of the worst dirtbags to ever disgrace DU. You are no better than those who would stone a woman to death because she was raped.

I can hardly contain my anger. I have been here a long time, and rarely seen anyone so repulsive.

[Posteritatis]

35. There's a sizable chunk of DUers who think any Christian is exactly like the Taliban

It's hard to look at any threads involving Christians in any context, because that crowd always comes along to pull the kind of BS you see here and there in this thread.

[emilyg]

37. +10

[bitchkitty]

44. Jeez, y'all get off IG!

That's not the worst statement I've ever seen, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

If I might get all Xtian on everyone's ass:

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

[Ztolkins]

32. You've used the word "fundamentalists" a few times...

in this thread... I get you're lack of empathy towards them, but there can be a big difference between crazy fundamentalists and an average Christian.

Many Christians did vote for prop 8, and many are quite liberal. I'm sure that the majority of Americans who are in favor of gay marriage, and there is a majority, are not just made up of atheists & agnostics.

And this says nothing of the fact that you're assuming that those executed in N.K are fundamentalists.

[Leontius]

82. You would have made an excellent

death camp guard.

[anonymous171]

29. Correct. He wants them to worship him and no other God(s). nt

[Zynx]

71. Doing anything to impede the practice of someone's belief is wrong.

[struggle4progress]

24. That's an unconscionably vague report: "Human rights groups in South Korea say ...

a woman allegedly executed" without specifying the groups further. "Such reports are hard to verify" doesn't really shed any further light

It's surely possible to make some specific comments about the situation in NK --

AI does, for example: http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/north-korea

So does HRW: http://www.hrw.org/en/asia/north-korea

[George II]

78. A similar story about 19 people scheduled to be executed in Iran was posted weeks ago....

....it was equally vague, there were no references to it anywhere except on an anti-Iran blog, and ultimately was deleted.

Note the "source" here - "Activists"

I'm sure North Korea executes "christians", but they execute atheists, Buddhists, etc. I doubt that they differentiate when they choose who to execute.

[meow2u3]

28. Way to go, Kimmie! Send Christians straight to heaven

while you get ready to roast in hell. :evilfrown:

[struggle4progress]

33. dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3984612

[AlphaCentauri]

51. No body has confirmed those news either

[Rage for Order]

56. Maybe we could ask her family to confirm the news

Oops, wait a minute. From the OP:

"...her husband, children and parents were sent to a political prison the day after her June 16 execution."

[AlphaCentauri]

58. Anyone living in NK to confirm this or is just a gossip n/t

[Rage for Order]

60. Are you serious?

There's an outside chance it's not true, but if your next door neighbor is executed by the government and the next day her parents, husband, and children disappear...in North Korea...would you try to tell the world about it or would you keep your head down, keep your mouth shut and go about your business?

Certainly the government of NK could easily make this story go away by having the local TV news station interview the woman in question on camera.

:shrug:

[AlphaCentauri]

62. No, but I think the article is misleading

The emphasis is put on the fact that she was a christian and thats probably not the real reason of her execution, she was accused of spying witch could be a lie of the NK government.

[Rage for Order]

64. This article has better detail

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5htjkn2uYbcOJC8azoyb2TkOh6B4AD99KTRGG4

But it would mark a harsh turn in the crackdown on religion in North Korea, a country where Christianity once flourished and where the capital, Pyongyang, was known as the "Jerusalem of the East" for the predominance of the Christian faith.

"What religious practice or venues exist ... (are) tightly controlled and used to advance the government's political or diplomatic agenda," the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom said in a May report. "Other public and private religious activity is prohibited and anyone discovered engaging in clandestine religious practice faces official discrimination, arrest, imprisonment, and possibly execution."

The report cited indications that the North Korean government had taken "new steps" to stop the clandestine spread of Christianity, particularly in areas near the border with China, including infiltrating underground churches and setting up fake prayer meetings as a trap for Christian converts.

"North Korea appears to have judged that Christian forces could pose a threat to its regime," Do Hee-youn, a leading activist, told reporters Friday in Seoul.

The U.S. commission's report cited defectors as saying an estimated 6,000 Christians are jailed in "Prison No. 15" in the north of the country, with religious prisoners facing worse treatment than other inmates.

Reports of religious persecution in NK are not all that rare.

[struggle4progress]

75. That's true, worth remembering, and closely related to my comment in #45:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3984612&mesg_id=3985351

Still, it is also worth remembering that lack of transparency is generally not conducive to human rights, and that general suspicion should naturally increase with opacity

[juno jones]

34. I feel badly for the christians but what of the others?

How many hundreds of thousands of Buddhists live there? Shintoists? Taoists?

If the only worship allowed is the cult of Kim, I'm sure there are other religions being practiced secretly there as well ...and being persecuted. Funny only christians are being singled out for our outrage.

Sorry about the christians, but Kim Jong Il is a very nasty piece of work all around.

[Naturyl]

49. You're right.

I'm sure there are atrocities we aren't being shown, because there is no mileage in it.

Just makes it all the worse, in my mind. Kim Jong-Il's regime is one of the worst in the world today.

[Rage for Order]

59. Yeah, we never hear of any other religious groups being persecuted

I haven't heard any news organizations mention the Chinese government's crackdown on Falun Gong and Buddhists in Tibet, the military junta in Burma killing monks during last year's popular uprising, or even Muslims being persecuted in the United States. All they ever talk about is those poor persecuted Christians.

:sarcasm:

[Xolodno]

38. Its threads like these....

...that make me wish I was still a lurker on DU.

The funny thing is, I belive in God, accept Christ as Saviour and accept the Bible...but not in the traditional sense. Bottom line is, I'm a USDA Grade A, 100% Certified, Proven beyond doubt, unapologized.....HERETIC!!!!!

I reject ALL the Ecumenical Councils Decree's and official positions (Arius and I would get along fine). Reject all traditional Seminary, BSF, whatever, traditional interpretations of the Bible.

If this were the Dark Ages, Indiana Green and I would be side by side in the torture chamber...but he may be a bit luckier, as he would most certainly have a quicker death than I would.

[Faygo Kid]

42. He's a she. And this is why I am a Christian, philosophically. Not eternal-life wise.

This is the essence of beauty and greatness. Not because of immortality, but just because it matters. And reminds me of my very dear relatives who are gone, believed, and lived their lives with grace, love and dignity. They believed in eternal life. I don't. But we all believed in this, as to who we wanted to be:

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

[onager]

48. We saw the commercial message the first time you posted it.

At least vary your proselytizing occasionally. Post the hot verses about Lot and his daughters or something.

[Faygo Kid]

50. Well, thank you for your lecture. I promise you I will treat it for its worth.

"Commercial?" I will waste no time with you.

But bring it any time.

[onager]

74. Contradictory messages...just like your Holey Buy-bull

I will waste no time with you.

But bring it any time.

Well, I can't exactly "bring it" if you'll "waste no time" with me.

Blessed are the lions. That bleeding-heart liberal Nero just needed a few thousand more.

[cali]

76. what a steaming pile of shit. congrats on dumping it.

no one here has expressed anything that could lead you to believe that those in this thread endorse any kind of torture for issuing repugnant statements as IG has done repeatedly in this thread. Grab a fucking clue, genius, expressing disgust at IG's idiotic and disgusting sentiments is not equivalent to torturing her- or you.

[KamaAina]

40. Which "human rights groups"?

The fact that they aren't named specifically makes me wonder if they might be front groups with ties to the Moonies (who definitely have designs on NK).

[Rage for Order]

53. The rights group is named specifically in this article

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5htjkn2uYbcOJC8azoyb2TkOh6B4AD99KTRGG4

The 33-year-old mother of three, Ri Hyon Ok, also was accused of spying for South Korea and the United States, and of organizing dissidents, a rights group said in Seoul, citing documents obtained from the North.

The Investigative Commission on Crime Against Humanity report included a copy of Ri's government-issued photo ID and said her husband, children and parents were sent to a political prison the day after her June 16 execution.

Ri, the North Korean Christian, reportedly was executed in the northwestern city of Ryongchon — near the border with China.

"North Korea appears to have judged that Christian forces could pose a threat to its regime," Do Hee-youn, a leading activist, told reporters Friday in Seoul.


yep, not specific at all

:eyes:

[George II]

43. While I deplore executions and North Korea, there is no confirmation that this story is true...yet

[George II]

79. .

[napoleon_in_rags]

52. Jonestown experiment on North Korea:

Anybody here ever read the Jonestown story? How the congressmen went there and got shot and that created the meltdown and mass suicide? It was really interesting to me to see how he tried hard, but screwed up. I was thinking about how he could have prevented all that:

The answer I came up with is this: He should have gone there, and told them point blank about the stories of the defectors. Then he should have said "if you want to be left alone, we need to figure out if anybody is here against there will. So this is what we will do. Each person will gather their belongings, children over 12 with dads, under with moms. Then each will walk one at a time into a tent. If they want to stay, they will walk to the right into another tent where nobody can see them. If they want to leave, the will walk into the left tent where nobody can see them. Nobody will be able to see who is staying and who is leaving. If dear leader is right and you think this is paradise, the right tent will be full and we will not come back. If some people go to the left tent, we will leave you alone for awhile, but we will periodically come back to repeat this experiment. Either way will we not judge you, and we will leave you alone if we know nobody is here against their will."

That would have prevented the jonestown mass suicides, the killing of the congressman. I just wish there was a way to do the same in North Korea.

[Richd506]

54. I'm not a christian nor do I plan to be

but this is just wrong. Nobody deserves to be executed for their beliefs...

[2QT2BSTR8]

55. I am beginning to regret having posted this story...

I did not ever intend this to be a LGBT vs. Christian thread. Only North Korea 'executes Christians' and only that! Please do not twist this around people.

[Posteritatis]

73. *Any* thread mentioning Christians here turns into something similar (nt)

[lexanman]

61. NK is a very closed society

we know little about the inner workings of that country. I find it suprising that such a closed society that people claim as backward could develop nuclear weapons, frankly. If this is true then it is just not Christians they are killing, although that is very bad. There are plenty of reports out that they torture and kill any dissidents, starve their people.

[earcandle]

66. maybe even run some prisons for us?

good cover. 

[lexanman]

67. I dont understand what you mean by good cover

for them? Oh nevermind. I see what you are saying. It is possible. Who knows in tis crazy world.

[Naturyl]

69. Their nukes are quite primitive.

They haven't managed better than 3 to 5 kilotons in yield, which is much less than the Hiroshima bomb (15 kilotons). In terms of nuclear weapons, this is a very low yield. Modern Western nuclear weapons are several thousand times more powerful. They also have no way to deliver such a device.

[Posteritatis]

72. They're more advanced than most countries were in 1945. (nt)

[earcandle]

65. ok, stop it, you fuckheads.

killing is what you have to teach us NOT to do anymore.
How?  Ya wanna become the biggest killer?  suppose you 
are included in the dead?  Do you matter? 

[Critters2]

85. Any group with enough power will engage in violence to maintain power.

If keeping power for its own sake is your goal, sooner or later you will resort to violence. No matter what kind of "ist" or "ian" you are.