Democrats see healthcare deal hopes collapse

[sabra]

Source: Reuters

WASHINGTON, July 24 (Reuters) - The leader of a group of Democratic fiscal conservatives in the House of Representatives said talks on a U.S. healthcare overhaul bill fell apart on Friday and that he saw no possibility of a deal now.

Representative Mike Ross said that "after over a week of very intense and what I believe to be good faith negotiations ... it pretty much fell apart this afternoon."

The development leaves House Democratic leaders with a decision on whether to take the politically risky step of bringing to the full House for a vote next week a $1 trillion healthcare overhaul plan that lacks the support of an important voting block.

Despite personal appeals this week from President Barack Obama and hours of negotiations with Democratic leaders and White House staff, the conservatives known as "Blue Dogs" said their concerns about containing medical costs had not been resolved.

Earlier Friday, Obama's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, shrugged off the delays in the House and Senate and said a sweeping healthcare plan to control costs and expand coverage would still be approved by year's end.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N24424750.htm

[high density]

1. Blue Dogs see their nuts in a vice and start crying

They desperately want to water this down to their Republican standards. Where was all this "fiscal conservatives" discussion when we were talking about endless warfare?

[cascadiance]

9. They need to be sQUEEEEZZEEd out of congress!

Need to put the "Free trader traitor" Blue Dorks' faces every place so that the people know who NOT to vote for, no matter how many campaign ads they have provided by their corporate constituencies...

[area51]

58. "Free trader traitor"

I like that. :thumbsup: It amazes me when people who bemoan job loss vote for republinazis; that party wants to ship every single American job offshore.

[MikeE]

11. Not in a vice...

just plain neutered!

[customerserviceguy]

13. I don't have a problem with the Blue Dogs

They know damned good and well that their districts were held by Rethuglicans just one, two, or three terms ago, and that they could easily flop back the other way.

Frankly, it might have been a serious mistake to take on the subject of healthcare right now, if we can hold our own in 2010, then make some gains on President Obama's re-election in 2012, we might have the solid numbers to really go for the brass ring of single-payer.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

17. DLC SHOULD POUR MONEY INTO THEIR DISTRICTS TO EDUCATE THEIR CONSTITUENTS

ON THE THREAT OF REPUBLICS

[customerserviceguy]

28. While it would be nice for the DLC to do this

It's probably more important to spend that money in districts that have a Rethug who's been teetering like the ones that they toppled over in the last few elections.

After you have enough Democratic Congresscritters, a few Blue Dogs just don't matter.

[Mithreal]

30. How many will be enough? Will 70 senators work?

The House isn't nearly the problem the Senate is.

[customerserviceguy]

32. The Senate is only a problem

because the Constitution designed it that way. An entire House of Representatives can theoretically be replaced every two years, only a third of the Senate can be replaced at that interval.

[Mithreal]

33. That doesn't address my question. Thanks for stating the obvious. nt

[Mithreal]

35. Did the Constitution intend for the Senate to be corporate owned?

By your argument I have to believe you would say yes.

[Dan]

50. what is the different between a GOP and

a bluedog dem?

[customerserviceguy]

67. Well, if that's the case

then refuse to vote for the BD in your district, you'll get a Rethug, and you'll find out, if you cannot remember.

[Mithreal]

68. Oversimplistic statement, but has some validity. nt

[No Elephants]

23. I'm wondering what it is that makes a Blue Dog a Democrat, though. What is it that

they DO vote with Democrats on? Resolutions to make December 3 National Pork Chop Day?

[customerserviceguy]

29. Every district has its own set of priorities

For urbanized districts that have a Blue Dog, people might simply be sick of Rethug corruption. For rural districts, they might be OK with a stimulus budget, but against something that smacks of gun-grabbing. For suburban districts, they might want low taxes, but hate Repuke wars of choice.

The GOP has managed to put together coalitions of religious fundies, country-club tax haters, and xenophobes who reacted predictably to 9/11. Surely we are at least as smart as they are.

Maybe universal healthcare is waiting until enough people are truly dissatisfied with the fool's paradise they think they're living in.

[Zorra]

37. Blue Dogs are moles placed in the Democratic Party by wealthy private

individual and/or corporate interests for the express purpose of rendering the Democratic Party ineffective in order to insure that these interests maintain control of the government. These wealthy private interests finance Blue Dog campaigns, and thereafter control how their Blue Dogs vote on legislation. Blue Dogs are allowed to vote with Democrats on social and some environmental issues unless they are contrary to some corporate interest that controls the Blue Dogs. In this way, Blue Dogs can maintain some appearance of being Democrats. Individual Blue Dogs usually have a few pet "conservative" social issues, such as being anti-choice or pro-NRA, so that they can create the illusion of being "conservative" and thereby pander to the ignorant conservative constituencies in their respective districts.

Blue Dogs pretend to be fiscal conservatives, but in reality they will frivolously spend as much taxpayer money as is necessary in order to protect the wealthy private interests they represent.

Like republicans, the Blue Dogs primary function is to protect the interests of wealthy private interests in government. However, they have to vote with Democrats sometimes, or they will completely blow their cover to even the most ignorant voter. So they'll vote with Dems on most issues that are not of importance to their corporate masters. Also, in votes that are very close, a few Blue Dogs can vote with republicans to tip the scales in favor of their corporate masters. They get to be the bad guy Dems, while their other Blue Dog colleagues can vote with Dems and make it look good for themselves.

Some will argue that Blue Dogs are conservative Democrats from districts that would not elect a real Democrat. But this is total BS. Judging by their general voting records, Blue Dog Democrats are not really any more socially "conservative" than real Democrats, they simply claim to be in order to get elected. Blue Dogs are only basically considered "conservative" because they vote to do the will of their corporate masters, which is, in reality, not conservative at all, in the sense of what their constituents define as conservative.

Bottom line: Blue Dogs are political mercenaries that are paid by wealthy private entities to infiltrate the Democratic Party in order to protect the economic and power interests of these entities.

Otherwise, Blue Dogs would just be republicans.

[svpadgham]

53. mmmmm.....

pork chops.....

[Mithreal]

25. Ignore Republican support for healthcare reform?

And I don't mean their representatives, the real people who are Republicans who support healthcare reform.

Don't go making excuses for conservative Dems.

[customerserviceguy]

31. For Republicans who support healthcare reform

you have to have two things, an equitable taxing scheme and a proper set of exclusions that mean that not every whiner with a stuffy nose is going to be in line in front of them at the doctor's office.

With taxes, a blend of soak the rich along with a modest increase in taxes on middle income earners might do it. I can see a reasonable compromise in allowing new jobs that are created in the next two years to be free of a mandate, while maybe partially taxing employer-provided benefits over a particular dollar figure. Exempting taxable health insurance benefits from FICA and Medicare tax might be a way to even things out.

And yes, exclusions need to be in there to get Republicans to support healthcare reform. While abortion is certainly a hot button issue in this regard, we might have to have exclusions on some mental health care, plastic surgery (including sex-reassignment) and alternative medicine.

[Iowa]

36. With his countless betrayals, Obama won't even get half the people here to vote for him in 2012. n/t

[drm604]

48. Sure let's wait another 3 1/2 years to get the solid numbers we really need.

Who cares that this is exactly what the insurance companies want? Who cares about all of the people who will die or go bankrupt due to that wait? Lets keep putting it off so that the insurance companies can... I mean so that we can have solid numbers to go for the brass ring later on.

Just not now. Never now. Always tomorrow. It will always be easier tomorrow so let's never act today.

[PhilosopherKing]

60. If the Democrats fail to deliver health care,

then the Blue Dogs will be the first to lose, regardless how they vote for the health bill.

[sasquatch]

39. Maximum pressure on the vice my good fellows

[Thrill]

2. I know Obama can't believe the push back he's getting from Democrats

on Healthcare. Who would of thought they would be aligning with Republicans, on what has been one of the parties biggest platforms for decades.

[phantom power]

3. Obama needs to go LBJ on their blue dog asses.

Immediately, before this thing fails and takes him down with it.

[Jakes Progress]

24. He needed an LBJ type

instead of Rahm, the lover of all corporations and status quo.

One of the worries about Obama in the primaries was that he didn't have the savvy and the experience to muscle things through in Washington. I was glad to get someone who seemed to have the right ideas, but he needed to get him some insider muscle instead of corporate shills for his advisers.

[skipos]

4. Who cares? Lets talk about GATES!!!

:woohoo:

[CountAllVotes]

5. crap!

recommend!

:kick:

[Warren Stupidity]

6. "containing medical costs" - that requires translation

here: "protecting health insurance industry profits".

Now it makes sense.

[jody]

7. Has anyone reported on specific issues that prevent a compromise? Statements like containing medical

costs don't help me understand the situation.

[OHdem10]

8. Since Mara Liason, NPR, and Fox News last stated.: Liberals are FATED for Hearbreak.

regarding Health Care.

I say, Do Not Pass a Bad Bill.

[jody]

10. I would like to know specific issues that prevent a compromise in committee. n/t

[OHdem10]

26. Leaving the Public Option out of the bill.

Liason believes this will be dropped.

CO-Ops are the way the GOP see to ending Medicare. Leave it to
Wyden to figure a way not to threaten the Insurance Companies.

[jody]

38. So the sticking point is whether there is a "Public Option" or not. Does that mean the BDs oppose

PO and Waxman supports it?

If that's the major issue then I finally know how to write a letter to my congressman.

Thanks :hi:

[OHdem10]

43. Blue Dogs are not supporting Public Option.

[jody]

44. Many thanks, I'm finishing a letter to my BD congressman now. n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

34. "Do Not Pass a Bad Bill" -- I agree

Single Payer is what we need.

Compromise with the industry and their bought-off politicians is pure betrayal.

[valerief]

12. Drop a piano on them all! nt

[Robbins]

14. Blue Dogs

They had no trouble with giving Bush 3 trillion for wars yet no to paying for health care reform.Repealing Bush's tax cuts and taxing Millionares can pay for it.

I say If they want to oppose Obama then they should get no help from Obama and the democratic leadership In fundrasing.And Obama
should offer no help In their reelection campagins.

If Democrats Like Max burcas only want to oppose Obama and the Democratic agenda and only worried about kissing Republican asses
and their special Intrest money they should not be chairing any committees.Let Real democrats chair committies.Going along with
Republicans threaten Democratic majoritys.

[No Elephants]

27. In fairness, I don't recall many Democrats of any hue who had a problem giving

Blackwater, Halliburton, Bechtel--er, I mean, Bush, trillions for warfare. Well, there was Kerry, who was for for it before he was against it, but then he was for it again.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

15. I'm normally the last one to say something like this...

...but bring the fucker to a vote, and let the congresscritters take a stand on whether they support the current broken system, or an attempt at reform. Hell, I don't like any of the bills currently being considered, but it's the first step in the right direction we've taken in fifty years.

[RBInMaine]

16. These people's constituents need to pressure them. Where are they?

[Jakes Progress]

21. The majority of these people's constituents are idiots.

They swallow crap and believe it.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

56. They probably agree with them

Most of these guys and gals come from districts that lean Republican. They have bought everything ever said about health care being "socialized", and if they see their congress critter voting for it, they'll be targeted by the GOP opponent as a socialist too. No true "liberal" is EVER going to win in these districts. Sorry. My aunt and uncle live in one down there in NC. They are stark raving conservatives who though Jesse Helms was a great senator. But they voted for the Democrat last time around because they thought Republicans were too scandal ridden.

I really don't give a shit as long as we have one more vote than they do. They can go back to their district and pat themselves on the back, then probably take credit for it when we see how it turns out to be a good thing and not the boogieman they are so afraid of.

[Kingofalldems]

18. The term "Blue Dog" should be defined as --Disruptor

[fasttense]

19. And doing NOTHING about health care WILL

contain medical costs exactly how? Doing nothing is criminal.

[jwirr]

20. If the BDs carry through on their threat to defeat this bill THEN I

will continue to do what I have done for several years now - I will donate only to congressional campaigns that I know are on my side and the DCCC and DSCC can go to hell. They distribute their money to all Dems regardless of the loyalty of those Dems to the Party platform. I will give only to individuals who vote for the closest bill to having a single payer health care plan. I will not support a BD.

[Jakes Progress]

22. True. It doesn't make a lot of sense to

donate willy-nilly to the party when some of that money goes to re-elect these assholes.

[Abq_Sarah]

41. The blue dogs should be seen as place holders

Who keep the seat until the district is ready to elect a more suitable democrat. Declaring all out war on them isn't going to necessarily get a better candidate for their seat.

[Jakes Progress]

64. But that doesn't mean I want to give them money. nt

[Blasphemer]

40. So take it to the floor and let them deal with the consequences of their votes... nt

[The Stranger]

42. Fuck the Blue Dogs -- ram it down their throats.

We're going to have health care reform whether they like it or not.

[Joanne98]

45. can't anybody just think about the people of this country instead of themself?

And their next re-election. We need to start punishing them for this. They're treating us like SAPS! Who do they think we are the pro-life movement? I don't want to get dragged from election to election with a carrot in front of my nose.

[MannyGoldstein]

46. That's Depressing

Same as it ever was.

[bkkyosemite]

47. We need to get in their faces and start screaming at them to give us Single Payer or we will do

everything in our power to fire them.

[scentopine]

55. Single payer now! Lets stop this bullshit!

[bkkyosemite]

49. Or better yet scream at the legislators and go on strike not paying any premiums for healthcare.

kill two birds with one stone..

[Ztolkins]

52. Uh....is this outdated?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/24/lead-blue-dog-health-care_n_244496.html

[scentopine]

54. Fact check - rumor that real democrats won pres. and congress

File it under alien abduction stories.

[Hissyspit]

57. Single-payer.

Should have ALWAYS been on the table.

[2Design]

59. Take away their health care, benefits and retirement and see if they can act faster - we can get

the money from that to fund the rest of us

[KyleA]

61. There is no hope for this country.....

I am advising my kids to move out of here once they graduate high school. You just can't win in a rigged game. These politicians are bought and owned by their corporate masters. Their constituents are brain washed to vote against their own best interest by the corporate media. We are permanently fucked

[unkachuck]

62. Dear Comrade Obama....

"...the conservatives known as "Blue Dogs" said their concerns about containing medical costs had not been resolved."

....those damn corporate Dems are giving us a hard time....I don't think they love us....it's time we think big, it's time we move and find new friends....

....have you ever considered the benefits of joining another political Party?....most of us would follow you....how would you like to leave those slimy repugs and blue-dog Dems mumbling?....have you ever considered joining the Communist Party?....you could buy it cheap and own it completely....

....think of it....you would not only be our first African-American president but also our first Communist president (there would be whole chapters in history books dedicated just to you)....you could ditch geithner and the wall street scum and hire some real economists to wipe that silly grin off worn buffers' face....

....if traitor-joe could become an Independent and the specter that haunted Washington for 50 years as a puke could become a Dem, why could't you become a Communist and kick some serious corporate ass?

[gtar100]

65. Who wrote that fucked up headline? I ain't done yet. Are you?

Progressives may have to dig their heels in just a little bit longer but I'm not about to abandon this war to a bunch of greedy, short-sighted, mean-spirited, deceitful sons of bitches. They (these "blue dogs" and every god-damn republican) and who they represent are willing to let the rest of us wallow in the misery of debt and expensive health care that is hardly worth the sweat and hours we have to put in just to "deserve" it. We get sick, they get rich. We get sick, they do everything they can to take our life's savings. They kill our dreams and our hopes. We have to settle for working till we die while they get rich producing nothing but misery.

Fuck that. This is not over.

[BlueIdaho]

66. Nothing true blue about these dog shit democrats...

House leadership needs to minimize these scoundrels role in governing. Give them new offices in the basement broom closet and put them on hall monitor duty. The most important thing they should control are the lunch trays in the cafeteria.

[AlphaCentauri]

69. "their concerns about containing medical costs "

so what is their proposal? any idea?