Revealed: the secret evidence of global warming Bush tried to hide

[kpete]

Source: The Guardian


Revealed: the secret evidence of global warming Bush tried to hide

Photos from US spy satellites declassified by the Obama White House provide the first graphic images of how the polar ice sheets are retreating in the summer. The effects on the world's weather, environments and wildlife could be devastating


Satellite images of polar ice sheets taken in July 2006 and July 2007 showing the retreating ice during the summer. Photograph: Public Domain

Graphic images that reveal the devastating impact of global warming in the Arctic have been released by the US military. The photographs, taken by spy satellites over the past decade, confirm that in recent years vast areas in high latitudes have lost their ice cover in summer months.

The pictures, kept secret by Washington during the presidency of George W Bush, were declassified by the White House last week. President Barack Obama is currently trying to galvanise Congress and the American public to take action to halt catastrophic climate change caused by rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

One particularly striking set of images - selected from the 1,000 photographs released - includes views of the Alaskan port of Barrow. One, taken in July 2006, shows sea ice still nestling close to the shore. A second image shows that by the following July the coastal waters were entirely ice-free.


Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/26/climate-change-obama-administration

[hatrack]

1. Arctic Warming At "Dizzying Pace" Sylvia Earle: "Ice-Free Arctic Means A Very Different Planet"

WINNIPEG — The deteriorating state of the Arctic shows the world is running out of time to address global warming and complacency is the biggest obstacle to reversing the damage, international commissioners studying climate change said Thursday.

At a meeting in Winnipeg, commissioners from the Aspen Institute said the Arctic is a bellwether for the rest of the world. The North is warming at a dizzying pace, losing sea ice and threatening both residents and wildlife, they said.

The Arctic also acts as the world’s cooling system and, without it, they say life on Earth is at risk. “An ice-free Arctic means a very different planet, full stop,” said Sylvia Earle, explorer-in-residence with National Geographic and one of the commissioners studying the issue. “It will resonate globally . . . We have to take some action. We have no time. We are out of time. The next 10 years will really determine, in a major way, the future of civilization.”

The international Aspen Commission on Arctic Climate Change is examining the affects of global warming on the North and making recommendations for better international co-operation to protect the region. Made up of prominent scientist, policy-makers, corporations and indigenous groups, the commission is expected to attend the United Nations meeting on climate change in Copenhagen, Denmark, at the end of the year to raise awareness about the role of the North.

EDIT

http://www.ngnews.ca/index.cfm?sid=272092&sc=503

EDIT

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x202687

[Sparky 1]

5. Darn them! It was criminal to hide evidence that affects us all. >;(

[XemaSab]

13. Somehow I don't trust this image...

[NickB79]

14. What the hell?!?!

If that is for real, then we're well and truly fucked.

[jimlup]

25. Yep!

And we're truly fucked.

[DeSwiss]

17. Yikes!

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/SNAP/">

- The developers will want to build McMansions and Condos there by 2099, I'm sure.....

[Hugabear]

77. That's really going to put a damper on the show "Ice Road Truckers"

n/t

[intaglio]

21. Interesting image

Especially considering the site is currently displaying the image for the 24th which shows very much smaller coverage. Perhaps the image you have is an uncorrected one? Or possibly it is an artifact of poor Jpeg compression. Normally the images they use are larger png files (Site link below image. Please note I do not normally hot link so please give Cryosphere Today the hits)


http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/

[NickB79]

90. Well, it's been a few days, and that image is only getting worse

So it's not a computer glitch. By the end of the summer, it looks like the Arctic ice cap will be split in half, with open water at the North Pole :scared:

[alfredo]

100. You see the 30 day animations?

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/CT/animate.arctic.color.4.html

[sutz12]

15. complacency is NOT the biggest obstacle

Obstructionism is.

:shrug:

[opihimoimoi]

2. The Bush Dudes hid this? WHY? I guess they didn't know what the Hell to do..or, was told to STFU

[Lorien]

4. Read Naomi Klien's "Shock Doctrine" nt.

[dana_b]

36. I know you were talking to the other poster..

but I just read it. Scariest book I've ever read.

"Perhaps part of the reason why so many of our elites, both political and corporate, are so sanguineabout climate change is that they are confident they will be able to buy their way out of the worst of it. This may also partially explain why so many Bush supporters are Christian supporters are Christian end-timers. It's not just that they need to believe there is an escape hatch from the world they are creating. It's that the Rature is a parable for what they are building down here - a system that invites destruction and disaster, then swoops in with private helicopters and airlifts them and their friends to divine safety." page 530

I bookmarked that page because it was so frightening, maddening and truthful. I completely believe this.

[Raster]

8. During the last years of the Clinton administration, many projects to appraise the condition of the

environment including Arctic ice sheets, global warming, greenhouse gasses, etc. were initiated. Post of these had a project life of 2-8 years, experimental projects that would take several years to bear fruit in the form of usual data. The Clinton administration--and their allies that sponsored or helped initiate these reports-believed that the Gore administration would follow the Clinton Administration. The Gore administration would have been the most environmentally friendly, eco-conscious and green media savvy Presidential administration. The stage was set.

Through a variety of illegal electoral actions, the cheney*/'bush* administration ascended to power. cheney*/bush* actually had at least one full-time person, on White House payroll, whose job it was to review--and then diminish--the abundance of reports on the condition of the planet and environment. Phillip Cooney--formerly an attorney for the petroleum lobby-sat a White House desk and purposely deleted and withheld information demonstrating the effects of humans and petrocarbons on the environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Cooney

[hatrack]

11. Kind of like Al Gore's proposal for the Tirana satellite . . .

The idea was that a geosynchronous satellite would be placed in high Earth orbit, giving continuous data streams on the planet's energy balance 24/7, in the process providing a handy stream of information on climate shifts, solar inputs and so forth.

Of course, since it was Al Gore who proposed this idea, it was among the very first Clinton administration items on the "Unfinished Business" list to be shredded and dropped into the gaping maw of Dick Cheney, there to be consumed by stomach acid capable of eating through the hulls of guided-missile submarines . . .

[opihimoimoi]

12. Profits FIRST...screw ALL ELSE ... GOP = Country Last

[texastoast]

29. Told STFU by whom? n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

30. That is an interesting question.

The Illuminati?

[opihimoimoi]

33. Prolly a Pub Stooge carrying orders

[texastoast]

70. Orders from whom? n/t

[tj2001]

3. Another crime against humanity

for the whole world to see now.

[ohio2007]

27. Lucky China is only a developing nation. They can plead ignorance to the panic created

I don't see why the US taxpayers should pay for Chinese coal fired power plants belching out acid rain. but hey, India said they are not buying into the global panic either.

[tabasco]

60. No, you don't.

There's a reason for that.

[Arctic Dave]

6. I remember flying into barrow around that time in December and it was ice free.

The village elders have no memory of it ever happening in their lifetime. It was a strange landing coming in over the ocean and being surrouned by fog.

[bananas]

7. And we only read about it in a foreign news site.

If it wasn't for the internet, we still wouldn't know about this.

[PainPerdu]

53. Thank God for Gore inventing the Internets

[Still Blue in PDX]

102. Damn right. nt

[DUlover2909]

9. The denyers will just say it's natural climate shifts.

To them, anything nature does is natural.

[AlbertCat]

16. Anything nature does IS natural. That doesn't rule out our influence in starting natural processes.

Or that such natural processes, given a boost by our activity, are not harmful to us. The Earth isn't here so we can live on it, y'know. For much of its history, it was uninhabitable, and uninhabited, by us. 2/3rds of it is uninhabitable by us right now. There's nothing that says it has to be comfy for us. There's nothing to disprove we are influencing things.

[No Elephants]

22. IMO, they know better. They are not stupid, just greedy.

[DissedByBush]

58. I love that word "denyers"

It invokes memories of Holocaust deniers.

You are not standing on strong ground if you have to demonize people who disagree with you.

It shows you think it is settled. It is a fact and happening exactly as Gore says it is.

The problem is that soon as you stop debate you are no longer practicing science, but politics and ideology.

[DUlover2909]

64. I didn't spell deniers correctly, but it seems to me like my spelling should be the correct one.

I'm confused though, about whether you agree with me that the climate change is man made and that it is a settled issue among experts in the field of climatology.

[DissedByBush]

65. Politics is killing it for me

I don't see how something can become such a "settled issue" enough to create major social and economic upheaval after only a couple decades of study.

That the issue is very highly politicized with activists behind it also makes me very suspect.

That there is a lot of money to be made by the supporters also makes me suspect.

That scientists who generally believe in global warming but question the models or the priorities need to be viciously attacked makes me suspect.

THOU SHALT NOT QUESTION WHAT THE GODS OF GLOBAL WARMING HAVE DECREED

I personally have a problem because somehow believing in man made global warming has become equated with environmentalism. Somehow you can't be a skeptic and still be an environmentalist. What, clean air and water are no longer a problem? To cut CO2 we're going to push Priuses with their batteries that cause obscene amounts of pollution to be created in their making? Hell, the thing emits more CO2 than a VW Polo diesel anyway.

[DUlover2909]

68. This issue reminds me of the fight with tobacco companies.

Tobacco companies made it political, not the scientists and doctors. There were similar deniers when it was suggested that studies indicated that tobacco causes disease and that nicotine is addictive. I tend to believe the scientists especially when their argument makes so much sense.

[texastoast]

79. Can you link up some of those vicious attacks?

And I do think that there is a lot of money to be made for the scientist who is able to create a storage unit for electricity that is not so polluting in its making or at least will last for 15 years (I drive old Volvos and expect that lifespan in a car. Volvo will not be my next purchase unless they come up with an electric model, however.)

The CO2 problem is real and fossil fuel companies (producers and distributors) have known about it for a long, long, uncomfortable time.

And yes, you can still be an environmentalist and not have global warming as your thing. Film goddess Meryl Streep took on pesticides. That's the only thing she works on, but she works on the circle of poison very hard. I'm a tree-hugger because I know that if we can get more trees, some of the CO2 problem will be mitigated. I never get tired of planting them and watching them grow for the next generation.

[DissedByBush]

89. Check out Freeman Dyson and Bjorn Lomborg

Dyson is an eminent physicist who knows a thing about models, and he questioned the accuracy of models. Lomborg made the mistake of questioning spending priorities vs. other needs like hunger and disease, and Gore personally dismissed him.

The money is for the modern day indulgence merchants, the carbon traders. The money is for governments to tax people under the guise of global warming. The money is for poorer countries to steal from richer countries under the guise of global warming (remember that comment from Brazil, our money will be flowing to undemocratic regimes all over).

I figure the longest we could have known about this is after the big global cooling scare of the 70s.

"And yes, you can still be an environmentalist and not have global warming as your thing."

My environmentalism was in question on this board for expressing skepticism. I was immediately thought to be a massive polluter who likes to pump CO2 into the environment. I have almost all CFL and LED in my house, I tend to buy cars with engines as small as 1.1 liters, I'm pissed off because the 600cc Smart isn't available in this country (only a wasteful 1 liter). I do a big vegetable garden every year and have several fruit trees. I do it to conserve energy, not because of CO2.

But I'm also a realist. I support tree farming because I know a properly managed forest to meet demand results in more trees, not fewer.

[texastoast]

94. Forty years is a long time not to plan for your children

As the energy companies have done in their relative lack of action on the CO2 issue. Certainly, my folks didn't think it was a problem, but if it turned out to be, as my mom once said, "Well, my generation brought you cars. The pollution is for your generation to figure out."

I see that Dyson dismissed Gore as well and the conservative think tanks praise both Lomborg and Dyson, as I would expect.

Meanwhile, acting locally in your personal and public life is the best we can do. Some environmentalists are bold enough to at least mention the big elephant on the planet--overpopulation--but relatively few. And not just any overpopulation--developing countries with burgeoning populations who want to grow up to be just like America. Now there's a picture.

http://image.automotive.com/f/mags/automobilemag/24006420+120/store_cover260.jpg

[DissedByBush]

95. So you dismiss Dyson and Lomborg?

Just because the conservatives praise them?

Did you bother to look at their points? Lomborg disagrees with the priorities of the global warming establishment. Dyson criticizes the incompleteness of models using his genius and experience with models as a physicist, and criticizes priorities as well as the poor treatment of dissenting scientists. Note that both believe in man-made global warming and are liberals.

Both of these two are demonized by the Gore-led establishment and passed off as kooks and "deniers" for bringing up valid concerns not even over the concept of global warming, but just of particulars and priorities.

Any conclusions where this occurs must be suspect.

[texastoast]

98. I guess I was convinced about 25 years ago

when I heard all these arguments before Gore or these guys stepped into the arena.

Modeling is a grand thing, and I first became acquainted with the trapped heat concept via a model, but the ice cores do it for me from a practical perspective. Too many coincidences led me to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that CO2 is the demon.

I don't dismiss intelligent folks (conservative or liberal) and it will be interesting to see if the naysayers are proven correct. I doubt they will be. If I were a gambler, I'd bet my bottom dollar on it that the record in the ice cores tell the correct tale and serve as a warning to us.

[DissedByBush]

106. I have a love/hate relationship with models

For reference, I am an enterprise computer programmer who has also done work for universities. I'll never be a Tanenbaum, but I'm pretty good.

Models are great. But models also have very serious limitations that the global warming people don't want you to know.

It is difficult to make a model. Let's say I want to create a model of what will happen if a car falls from 500 feet. It is more difficult than you think. It is not just a straight drop. Some very complex aerodynamics go into it falling mixed with a good pinch of chaos as the balance point shifts back and forth as the car continually tries to reach equilibrium on the way down. That's why they wobble. Then it hits and you get to model what will happen to thousands of pieces with various strengths and strengths of their attachments and that varies widely depending on the angle of impact. Add temperature, humidity, wind, and you have some real fun on your hands.

That's hard. But at least we can model, drop a car, alter the model, drop a car over and over until we have the model pretty accurate. Then we can use a different car, model it, and see if our model works from scratch on the new car. Modify as necessary, repeat until you have enough confidence that the model will accurately represent any car being dropped. I'd probably trust that model.

Now imagine modeling the climate with many more inputs, a vastly larger and more complex system and no way to test whether the model works.

That's why Dyson was questioning models. Best guess in, best guess out. Not necessarily the truth.

[Viking12]

97. You're not a skeptic. Skeptics actually seek out relevant info.

Skeptics don't repeat debunked lies such as, "the big global cooling scare of the 70s." Skeptics understand that Dyson's and Lomborg's "critiques" are straw arguments that don't deal with the actual science. You're a denier, not much different from creationists, truthers, birthers, etc...

[fascisthunter]

105. thank you

[ProudDad]

92. It's much more than a couple of decades

Climate Science and Climate Change and man's contribution to it has been an subject of research since the mid-1800s...

The difference is that for the last few decades there has been near unanimous agreement among reputable climate scientists that;

1) The activities of humans ARE changing the climate
2) These changes are becoming, if they already aren't, irreversable
3) These changes will cause major (usually detrimental) changes in food availability, water availability and habitability of large sections of Earth
4) These changes if not immediately, severely mitigated will feedback upon one another and in all likelyhood render the Earth uninhabitable for large air-breathing mammals.

Your allies in the human caused denial community only include:

"A small number of scientists or political figures dispute all or some of the generally-accepted consensus on global warming science. Their objections include questions about whether global warming is actually occurring, if human activity is truly to blame, and if it is really as great a threat as has been alleged. Prominent global warming skeptics include Frederick Seitz (died in 2008), Richard Lindzen, Fred Singer, Patrick Michaels, John Christy, Harrison Schmitt, and Robert Balling. According to the newsmagazine Frontline, many of these scientists work or have worked for organizations that have received donations from large energy corporations."

[DissedByBush]

96. Ah, bringing out the "he worked for" argument

The proponents of course mainly work for politicians who see power, fame and money in the advancement of golbal warming theory.

Oh, yes, theory. That's what science is. Over time theories can gain support. Natural Selection took a long time to gain general scientific acceptance. The idea of man-made global warming is relatively recent. It has pretty strong evidence behind it in the few decades of work, but the conclusions you cite are part of the theory, not fact. Most of that would change drastically if the models are incomplete as Dyson said.

I didn't sign on to the BS chicken little rants of Paul Ehrlich that turned out to be wrong, and I'm sure not going to sign onto this chicken little movement.

[Hugabear]

75. Sorry, but global warming IS a fact. If you think it's not, then that makes you a denier.

Denying that global warming is occurring makes about as much sense as denying that the earth is round, or claiming that the earth is only 6000 years old.

Global warming deniers are about as legitimate as those who still want to push creationism in schools.

[DissedByBush]

99. Denier, heretic, blasphemer

Words used by zealots and the religious, those driven by agenda. Not words to be used in relation to science.

Thank you.

You proved my point that this is not about science, but about agenda.

[Viking12]

101. You fail to accept simple scientific facts and reasoning. That makes you a denier..

[DissedByBush]

104. This isn't yes or no

You measure the evidence and arguments, and that gives you a degree of confidence in a scientific theory.

For such a young theory, especially one being so strongly politically pushed, my confidence is only moderate.

Thanks again for your evidence that this has become more of a religious than a scientific movement.

[Viking12]

107. Young theory? Your ignorance is blooming.

The "Greenhouse" theory dates back to 1827. The theory that human emissions could change climate dates back to 1896. Those are not "young" theories. You clearly don't know the evidence, how can you measure it?

[DissedByBush]

108. Warming dates back that far

Man-made warming is much younger, not taking hold until the 50s or 60s.

Of course the computer models we rely so much on to supposedly prove this came much later than that.

[Viking12]

109. Once again, you move the goalposts & your ignorance shines.

Now your claim is not that it is a young theory, but that the observational evidence is "young". Bullshit. There is plenty of observational evidence to support the theory and the models:

* the warming at the surface should be accompanied by cooling of the stratosphere and this has indeed been observed
* as well as surface temperatures warming, models have long predicted warming of the lower, mid and upper troposphere even while satellite readings seemed to disagree. But it turns out the satellite analysis was full of errors and on correction, this warming has been observed
* models expect warming of ocean surface waters as is now observed
* models predict an energy imbalance between incoming sunlight and outgoing infrared radiation. This has been detected
* models predict sharp and short lived cooling of a few tenths of a degree in the event of large volcanic eruptions and Mount Pinatubo confirmed this.
* models predict an amplification of warming trends in the Arctic region and this is happening


So far in this thread, you've employed all of the tactics of a denier.

What is denialism?

Denialism: the employment of rhetorical tactics to give the appearance of argument or legitimate debate, when in actuality there is none. These false arguments are used when one has few or no facts to support one's viewpoint against a scientific consensus or against overwhelming evidence to the contrary. They are effective in distracting from actual useful debate using emotionally appealing, but ultimately empty and illogical assertions.

-snip-

We believe there are five simple guidelines for identifying denialist arguments. Most denialist arguments will incorporate more than one of the following tactics: Conspiracy, Selectivity, False Experts, Impossible Expectations/Moving Goalposts, and Argument from Metaphor/violations of informal logic.

http://www.denialism.com/2007/03/what-is-denialism.html
See also:

How to become a crank

http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/05/crank_howto.php

[irislake]

10. He may have hidden it but

it wasn't exactly a deep dark secret.

[No Elephants]

23. True, but it's outrageous that he classified photos of Earth, ffs. Wonder what

remains classified and what this administration will classify.


I thought I was headed to third party, thinking maybe Nader had the right idea. Now, I think I may be heading toward anarchy.

[MonteLukast]

49. He was in the business of "image management".

He was our worst picture of slimy salesmen and spokespeople. The truth is too negative! It would damage our country's brand if it got out that we did all this! Kill the messenger-- he's bad for business!

Well, he DID say that he intended to run the USA like a business, with himself as the CEO. He was telling the truth, there.

[PainPerdu]

54. Truth will out...

Find the truth and you can assign blame.

No one in the BFEE wants the responsibilty associated with owning the truth....ANY truth.

[irislake]

71. Or you could move to Norway

[orleans]

18. k&r &omg. n/t

[greiner3]

19. Good luck this year to the great unwashed;

At least here in the Midwest where we are having a very chilly summer. Lately I've seen people wearing sweaters in the morning and into the afternoon on days when the temp does not get into the 70s. As a recent college graduate with a degree in Evolution and Ecology, I know better; however, I'm only one person. Hell, even my immediate family is skeptical, at the most, of the global warming crisis. Just wait until this next generation of home schooled fundie robots hit mainstream. I'll bet that will lift the nation's scientific bar quite a bit.

[elocs]

28. July should be the hottest month of the year here in western WI

with an average monthly high of 85 and a low of 63. So far this month we have had 2 days with highs of 84 and 2 days where the high was only in the middle 60s. There have been many days with highs only in the 70s and many nights with lows into the middle or even lower 50s.

It can be very hot and humid here in summer, but not this year. So yes, there are those naysayers who will claim, "Global warming? What global warming?"

[mwb970]

35. On the other hand, this summer has been unusually cool here in Columbus.

Blankets used every night, no need for the air conditioner during the day (in the middle of July!?), definitely the most comfortable summer here in many years temperature-wise.

:shrug:

[elocs]

42. I use a blanket every night, sometimes even a winter quilt,

but I like it cool with the fan blowing the cool night air in the 50s. We did have some hot days back in June where it got up near 100 and over it with the heat index. So far it has been a very comfortable summer.

[MonteLukast]

48. In Denver, too.

I think we've had less than a month's worth of 90+ degree days this summer. We've had one of the wettest years on record, too; with a storm every week for most of May and June, a "reprieve" of heat in early-mid July, and the rain starting again now as autumn monsoon season comes back.
It's not going to get above 85 today.

I like feeling comfortable myself, and I love that the plants are lush and still that beautiful emerald green, which is usually the way they only are in May. I think the ag types are relieved to be drought-free. But there's no denying it: it's been most un-Colorado-like lately.

[Tafiti]

39. "What global warming?"

See, this is why I advocate use of the term "Climate Disruption" in lieu of "global warming." It's a much more accurate description in terms of consequences, as opposed to global warming, which speaks to the cause. It's a shame that so many people conflate the two - I hear the same type of denial all the time (or used to when I lived in the Midwest).

[hatrack]

59. I've been flogging "Climate Breakdown" or "Climate Destabilization" for years now . . .

Obviously, to no effect.

:shrug:

[Blue_Tires]

78. i know some professors who use "global climate change"

[Javaman]

72. Same here in Austin, Texas.

if we end the month like it started, and it appears as if we will, we will have the hottest month of July on record.

Nearly everyday has been either at 100 or over it. Only a hand full at the chilly temps of 95+.

This is so freaking scary.

We were getting 100+ temps in June, which never happens.

So what are land prices in WI? :)

Cheers.

[nolabels]

85. Want to bet bushco and clan move permanently up to New England soon?

It looks like the unnatural legacy of corporate rule is going to end very badly

[Chemisse]

20. This needs to be of the highest priority for Obama and the world

[dana_b]

38. amen! and i'm not all that religious

When it's finally hitting people in their pocketbooks, only then will they say "hey! Why didn't omeone do something about this?"

It should trump the economy, war, etc. This will cause the greatest ecological, financial, political crises we've ever seen.

[24601]

43. Yes, for God's sake, ending the war, health insurance, GLBT

marriage, stripping the states of their authority to pass right to work laws and fixing the economy can go on the back burner until we return to the temperatures of the last mini-ice age.

I'll alert the media.

[Chemisse]

62. People like you won't be so smug when/if the ice caps melt

[24601]

81. Probably as smug as you if/when we have 100,000 troops in

Afghanistan and Pakistan in 2020, long, long before the ice caps are gone.

Peace

[nolabels]

86. While we rearrange the chairs on the Titanic...........

it really is starting to look they have planted explosives on that metaphorical iceberg. However it happens i am quite sure it will be a cascade of man made events

[Javaman]

73. Yeah, because having a livable planet is so low priority.

:eyes:

[Devil_Fish]

84. Your post was meant to be sarcastic, but it is right on. I see you omitted the Sarcasm tag. NT

[No Elephants]

24. K & R

[ohio2007]

26. "polar ice sheets are retreating in the summer"....

The polar ice sheets were predicted to be all melted away in the summer of 2008.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dna9Xg37dpI

http://revver.com/video/1093314/arctic-sea-sea-ice-predicted-to-be-gone-by-summer-2008/


New York was also predicted to be under water in 2010. That was a prediction made in 2000.

[imdjh]

46. killjoy

[dysfunctional press]

74. "New York was also predicted to be under water in 2010. That was a prediction made in 2000."

by whom? do you have a link?

no reputable scientific body/organization would have made that type of prediction.

[Turbineguy]

31. Bush may turn out to be

the most efficient mass murderer of all time.

Beating Stalin who had to work at it.

[xxqqqzme]

32. His legacy - there will be no one left

to talk about it.

[cap]

34. I wonder what pictures of Palin's backyard would reveal

apparently she can see Russia from her porch but doesn't know what's going on around her.

Drill, Baby, Drill! You betcha!

[felinetta]

37. Bush Adm: Anti-science, pro big biz, secretive, lying psychopaths

[redqueen]

87. Isn't that the case for the GOP in general?

Sure the bush admin flaunted their idiocy even more proudly than Regan's or Nixon's... but it seems to be part of their platform, the psychopathic behavior.

[defendandprotect]

40. NASA used to cover Ozone Hole and this kind of stuff -- and beginning with Reagan...

they started restricting them.

Finally, in the Bush years, their entire mission was changed and they were

kept from any reporting on our environment!

This has been done of course in the interests of private individuals who control

our natural resources and who want to continue burning fossil fuels for their

own profit.

They are, of course, suicidal -- as suicidal as capitalism can be -- but they are

taking us all over the cliff with them!

[chimpyisstillsatan]

41. Remember Dan Rather?

This may be Truth revealed, but this could easily be a photoshop scam. Be careful using this as evidence, it could be a plant to discredit the entire argument.

[Gman]

45. You're kidding, right?

Looks like pretty hard evidence. Rather's reporting on Bush's NG record was 100% accurate. The problem with Rather's reporting was that the story was in fact 100% accurate. Are you implying that the records Rather reported on were not accurate? Are you implying that Bush served honorably in the NG? That he never went AWOL? What's your point?

[chimpyisstillsatan]

55. not kidding, read "Bush Brain"

The docs fed to Rather appear to have been fakes planted with the deliberate purpose that they could immediately and very publicly be debunked, thereby deflating the incindiary charge of desertion before it took root in the national psyche. That's how a Freeper was able to make public comments that the "kerning" was wrong for a typewriter of the era within 12 hours of the release of the documents.

Rove planted a bug in his own office, then had the FBI "discover" it to make it look like their gubernatorial opponent had planted it. I think it's called "getting ahead of the story."

I am willing to believe that this is potentially an actual photo, but I tend to disbelieve anything I could fake myself in five minutes until proven otherwise. There are no links to the supposed "one meter resolution" "public domain" documents cited in the climate change story.

Have you seen any detailed data or original, high res photos? Thanks.

[Birthmark]

66. Not likely

The pictures don't exist in isolation. They can't deviate too far from the data already collected without some pretty convincing explanation.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

80. looking forward to a link to the raw data

[Birthmark]

83. Start here:

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/#

If the pics don't match the data...there's a problem somewhere.

[redqueen]

88. You reminded me of a post in another thread about this picture...

that the ice could be there again next year, and then that could be used as a distraction from the overall trend.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6153265

[KansDem]

44. Yeah, and at the same time he was giving $100,000 tax credits for buyers of Hummers...

...and other gas-guzzling SUVs.

Damn him and his cohorts! Why they walk free is beyond me!

[MonteLukast]

50. Was that the ONLY reason Hummers didn't die sooner? (nm)

[KansDem]

52. That...and perhaps Detroit in general...

I'm always amazed at how capitalists proclaim "let the market decide," then do everything in their power to create a false market assuring their continued profits. For example, Chrysler needed a bailout to survive in 1979-1980. They got one in the guise of getting Toyota to scale back imports, thereby creating a "false market" in which the price of Toyotas would increase, causing Chrysler to be more cost competitive...


THE ROUTE TO JAPAN'S VOLUNTARY EXPORT RESTRAINTS ON AUTOMOBILES:
AN ANALYSIS OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT'S DECISION-MAKING PROCESS IN 1981
Working Paper No. 20
Stephen D. Cohen
Professor
School of International Service
American University

The Reagan administration's successful effort in 1981 to induce the Japanese government to implement a voluntary automobile export restraint program took a number of unique twists and turns from the traditional path by which the U.S. government seeks to protect a domestic industry from intense foreign competition. Unique decision-making and policy implementation processes arose as the result of the tension between the perceived need to afford the U.S. automobile industry time to respond to extraordinary circumstances and the desire to maintain the fiction that the administration would not violate its free market/free trade rhetoric in its first months in office. The decision-making process was relatively organized and methodical, but it did not prevent a triumph of political necessity over economic logic. Although the U.S. automobile industry defied the economic theorem that an industry never enhances its competitiveness while protected from foreign competition, the costs of Japanese export quotas vastly outweighed the benefits. Quantitative export restraints were a third-best policy because over the long-term, they imposed severe costs on American consumers while delivering windfall profits to the larger Japanese automobile manufacturers.

On May 1, 1981, the government of Japan announced that it was voluntarily limiting the number of automobiles it exported to the U.S. market for a two year period. The Japanese did not jump into this action; they were pushed. Although technically acting on a unilateral basis, the restraint program reflected the successful culmination of an orchestrated trade policy crafted by the Reagan administration. The genesis of this initiative was a policy review process begun in the last year of the Carter administration. While poles apart in their economic ideology, both administrations felt compelled to consider a broad range of measures to address the deteriorating economic fortunes of the U.S. automobile industry at the onset of the 1980s.

--more--
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/japan/scohenwp.htm

[Uncle Joe]

47. Damn, that sucks!

That is Earth's Air Conditioner.:-(

Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[Gregorian]

51. Modern society was fun while it lasted

I bought a JCB 214s yesterday. And here I am, the most vocal radical screaming about global warming for decades. Believe it or not, I care, and I'm frugal. I fill my truck with gas every six months. I use a tractor to dig ditches instead of using my back, legs, and arms.

What this says is that even the most aware and caring of people still advance global warming. The only way to stop it is to do two things, one of which cannot be done. The other is obvious. And it won't be done.

Enjoy what's left, and pity those who follow us. I apologize for what I've done.

[crim son]

56. I am NOT defending the shrub and his idiotic environmental policies

but the conservative argument isn't always that there is no global warming, but that it isn't manmade and therefore we should just wait for it to go away. I'm not sure this information was hidden for us so much as it just wasn't made readily available.

[Union Yes]

57. We are so fukt. recd

[fascisthunter]

61. watch coastal property get destroyed

twenty years from now, cities along the coast will be under water, not completely, but enough to create havoc.

So look at those around you claiming Global Warming is a hoax and just tell them to buy a large bib, because they'll be eating crow... or just say STFU idiot, that'll work just fine.

[newtothegame]

63. I have a very naieve question...

I've hear some Freepers refer to studies that show the earth is cooling, not warming. Does anyone know what they are referring to?

[Birthmark]

67. What they are referring to...

...is short term data. Be aware that "cooling" to them means that last year was *only* the eighth warmest year on record. And that was with a La Nina. There is absolutely no cooling in the climate trend. None.

[texastoast]

69. The stupid Freepers simply cannot get the concept of

a rise in the average global temperature. Just can't get it. Too stupid, I guess.

And don't even start trying to explain that the ice cores positively demonstrate that at no time in the last 40,000 years has the average global temperature risen so much in so short a time span.

[llmart]

82. You're missing the point with regard to Freepers.......

The bottom line with them is that they don't care about anything that may happen in the future as long as they aren't affected by it. They figure they'll be dead when the s*** hits the fan. They just don't care about anyone but themselves.

[Hugabear]

76. Simple. They are either lying or using selective data and misinterpreting it

They may point to data pulled from one area and say "HA", claiming that temperatures in that area have fallen over the past few years. What they DON'T point out is that overall, global temperatures have INCREASED over the past few decades, and have increased even more rapidly over the past several years. What they won't tell you is that global warming will actually cause certain parts of the planet to cool down, as climate changes shift global winds and jet streams around.

[ProudDad]

93. They get their

from the same dark, moist nether region that rush limpballs and the rest gets theirs...




Kurt Vonnegut -- we miss you!

[mvd]

91. Wish I could recommend

Bush, the denier of any science that didn't fit his agenda. :kick:

[Still Blue in PDX]

103. It has been and will be over 100 degrees most of this week.

It's a relatively new thing for us to have extreme weather in the Northwest for more than a day or two at a time.

Even without scientific evidence any casual observer can feel the climate change! How did whoever did the hiding think this would stay hidden? Did they think they were gonna get "raptured" before it was found out?

:rant:

[yellowcanine]

110. But Michael Crichton said in his NOVEL "State of Fear" that GW is mostly hype to

generate money for environmentalists and get scientists jobs!