Two Oklahoma deputies fatally shot

[depakid]

Source: UPI

A suspect is in custody in the fatal shooting of two Seminole County, Okla., deputies and the wounding of a woman, authorities said. The deputies were shot Sunday as they attempted to serve an arrest at a home in Seminole, Okla., the Daily Oklahoma reported.

The suspect, Ezekiel Holbert, 26, was in his mother's home when she called police, Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jessica Brown said. "When they knocked on the door, the suspect came out, Mr. Holbert, firing a weapon," Brown said.

A witness, Bryan Hause, told the Oklahoman the deputies kicked the door in and "the guy was sitting there waiting on him and shot him."

The deputies' names had not been released Sunday night. One died at the scene and the other died at Oklahoma University Medical Center, the newspaper said. A woman walking nearby was wounded by a stray round of gunfire, Brown said. There was no word late Sunday on her condition.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/07/27/Two-Okla-deputies-fatally-shot/UPI-71421248673317/

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. This is where I hope the cop-bashing

can at least pause for a bit here at DU, and we can all remember that police officers have a job that is dangerous every day, every minute of every day.

What a nightmare...........................................

[DRoseDARs]

2. Don't hold your breath. Showing any support or understanding for cops makes you persona non grata...

...to some here. Believe me, I don't trust cops in general as a rule, but I know Goddamn well not all are bastards and are just trying to do their jobs.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

4. Hey, I'm an old hippie who became a defense attorney -

guess what most cops think of me?

And yet, I've had some excellent experiences with police officers.

I've had some unpleasant ones, as well, but the majority have been gracious and reassuring.

I'm always persona non grata to a slew of folks here. The ones who are offended by critical thinking, measured responses, or the idea that you might have read a book at some point in your life..................

:hi:

[Psephos]

46. Tangerine, you are a peach :)

You said it all in the last line of your post.

[havocmom]

3. spouses and parents, most cops. Loved and worried about

Missed horribly when they don't come home.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. I cannot believe

people actually choose those jobs, but I'm awfully glad they do.

Same with medical people. I am so inferior to people like cops and medics.

(OK, I'm really, really done now. SERIES!1!!!11 Going to bed. Honest. Really.)

Sleep well..........................

[havocmom]

8. brother in law was cop, then special investigator for a county attorney in California

His specialty was cleaning up bad departments.

Step mom was LA county deputy. Generally worked vice in Hollywood and Santa Monica, but was called in to work in Sybil Brand Women's Prison during the trials of the 'Manson Girls'. That duty was hard on officers so they tried to rotate. Oh, the tales......

No sleep anytime soon tonight.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

9. Uh-oh -

insomnia, or just too much fun to be had?

[havocmom]

10. Think it's an allergic reaction

things in throat swelling rather bad. Something bit me when I was doing traction in the hammock. Now, well, it's rather unsettling.

[DRoseDARs]

13. TLB, bed, now. Havocmom, Emergency Room, now!

Bloody Hell, woman, get your ass to the hospital if your throat is closing up! You can't post if you suffocate to death. Duh. :P

[havocmom]

14. Pressure in throat, real trouble seems to be in Eustachian tube and sinus

Better in throat since I took some benedryl. ER is over an hour and a half away and I can't drive after taking the pills anyway. Breathing better, ear and tube hurt like hell.

And who made you the boss of old ladies, anyway? :rofl: good luck trying to make the two of us behave!

PS: thanks for caring. Have you seen my shawl? ;)

[DRoseDARs]

15. You're wearing your shawl, Granny.

What, getting forgetful in your late nights when you should be going to bed? ;)

[havocmom]

17. Believe me, I would LOVE to be able to go to bed

Will try again here shortly, for the fourth time tonight.

[DRoseDARs]

18. Fortunately, Benadryl has drowsiness as a possible side effect so good luck and good night. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

28. It's over there, draped across my walker -

I needed it when I couldn't find my bib.

I never could get to sleep - I'm watching "Gran Torino" and planning a big breakfast.

Your allergic reactions are scary, and while you're rather sanguine about your throat closing up, as a rather lovely DUer urged, ER, woman!

At least you had Benadryl on had, and you knew what to do. Just make sure you've got a good stash.

I wonder if I'll ever sleep again. I haven't pulled an all-nighter like this in a long time............................

[havocmom]

34. the Benadryl didn't put me out for more than five minutes

I am one dead doggie today. Sure hope my backup is ok to go.

Almost did kick Havocdad awake to take me in. I think it is something like mumps. All swollen in funny places. Getting some better.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

35. Swollen glands?

Infection?

Inflammatory?

You really should see a medico, you know.

I'm still up, closing in on twenty-three hours straight. I just took delivery of a big box of Alaskan chocolates, a gift from my boy buddy who vacationed there a couple of weeks ago. He thinks he's funny.

I'm punchy, but I'm not even sleepy. Just watched "Gran Torino." Remarkable film, amazing Eastwood. I loved it.

Will you see a doctor? Please?

And I'm glad you didn't go in. That's nuts.

Keep me posted, OK?

[havocmom]

38. you have mail

and I am so loopy it is probably written backwards.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. You're adorable -

new in town, sailor, or just quiet?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

29. When you are so moved,

I'd love to hear about your stepmother's time with the Manson girls.

I mean, WHO WOULDN'T????

[havocmom]

39. them was some tense times

She was not a woman who rattled easy, but tense times. More in PM some other time.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. You are a great person.

We all have different skills and talents. You keep innocent people out of jail, that is extremely noble and worthwhile.

[rollingrock]

24. Lots of people have dangerous jobs

construction workers, auto mechanics, airline pilots, steel workers , miners, etc. they all risk there lives every day doing dangerous work. Not that I disrespect the good ones in anyway, but I'd like to know what makes people think the police are so damn special in this regard??


Edit: and if you're one of those guys who can't handle the stress of being a police officer without taking out your frustrations on potentially innocent people, then you need to find another line of work.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

27. I don't equate those jobs with cops and firemen -

there's the law of chance, which applies to jobs like airline pilot, and then there are jobs of real danger, like being a cop.

Since you can't understand why people such as I think police are "so damn special," I'm not going to try to explain it to you, since you've already tipped your hand and exposed your bias.

It's not pretty, by the way.

I agree with you about handling frustration. I'm sure every good cop agrees with you, as well...................

[rollingrock]

43. Top 10 dangerous jobs in America

I have nothing but respect for firefighters, but police and firefighters aren't even in the top 10!


Top 10 dangerous jobs

The occupations with the highest fatality rates in 2006.

Occupation Deaths per 100,000 workers

Fishermen........ 141.7
Pilots ............... 87.8
Loggers .............. 82.3
Structural iron and steel workers..... 61.0
Refuse collectors ...... 41.8
Farmers and ranchers.... 37.1
Power linemen........... 34.9
Roofers................. 33.9
Drivers................. 27.1
Agricultural workers....... 21.7


Source: US Bureau of Labor Statistics


------------------------

[LanternWaste]

49. Are those deaths accidental or...

Are the deaths suffered by those who are occupied by your above list accidental or with intent?

Seems to me to be a very precise and relevant difference....

[Tangerine LaBamba]

51. Subjective -

it all depends on what your definition of "danger" is.

Do you know what their standard was in this 'survey'?

Until then, I'm quite comfortable with my opinion.

Interesting, though, that you keep trying to show me otherwise.

Something about your own opinion makes you feel weak?

It's my opinion. Why can't you just live with that, hmmmmm?

[ixion]

31. there are many types of dangerous jobs

and it's still no excuse for they way many (not all) cops act.

My condolences to the family of these men who lost their lives in their line of work.

[cosmicone]

32. Yeah ...

choking on a jelly doughnut is an occupational hazard

[Tangerine LaBamba]

36. You know,

it's all right that you're stupid and a pig, but can't you at least be creative when you attempt - and fail - to insult an entire group?

That "doughnut" thing is as tired and feeble as you are.........................

[cosmicone]

41. Amazing that you know my IQ and have my DNA ...

the former to compare with normative data and place me in a "stupid" category which is not even defined and the latter to see if my alleles have DNA sequences which are inherently porcine!!

The joke may be old but it works as your post proved. Remember, utility and functionality are far more important than chronological age of a machine, an apparatus or .... in this case, a joke !!

:rofl:

[LanternWaste]

50. or making posts...

"choking on a jelly doughnut is an occupational hazard..."


Or making posts which illustrate one's dignity, and lack of effectual dialog.

(six of one, half a dozen of the other...)

[masuki bance]

6. They should have left when they found out he lived there. nt

[JonLP24]

7. Unlike this fellow

Gates didn't come out firing.

[DRoseDARs]

12. Well, he did come out shooting his mouth off and words can be powerful weapons.

That incident will be a pain Sgt. Crowley won't soon forget, regardless of his intentions going in.

[JonLP24]

16. Came from a long flight from China

And then got hassled by police after he showed his info and then asked for his info. I'm sure somewhere in there any reasonable person would get upset. That is if you believe 100% of what is in the police report of an incident that isn't going to trial. So it is important to include Gate's view in all this because it is just as fair.

<snip>
I thought, ‘This is strange.’ So I went over to the front porch still holding the phone, and I said ‘Officer, can I help you?’ And he said, ‘Would you step outside onto the porch.’ And the way he said it, I knew he wasn’t canvassing for the police benevolent association. All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger. And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, ‘No, I will not.’

My lawyers later told me that that was a good move and had I walked out onto the porch he could have arrested me for breaking and entering. He said ‘I’m here to investigate a 911 call for breaking and entering into this house.’ And I said ‘That’s ridiculous because this happens to be my house. And I’m a Harvard professor.’ He says ‘Can you prove that you’re a Harvard professor?’ I said yes, I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he’s sitting there looking at them.

Now it’s clear that he had a narrative in his head: A black man was inside someone’s house, probably a white person’s house, and this black man had broken and entered, and this black man was me.

So he’s looking at my ID, he asked me another question, which I refused to answer. And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint because of the way he had treated me at the front door. He didn’t say, ‘Excuse me, sir, is there a disturbance here, is this your house?’—he demanded that I step out on the porch, and I don’t think he would have done that if I was a white person.

But at that point, I realized that I was in danger. And so I said to him that I want your name, and I want your badge number and I said it repeatedly.

TR: How did this escalate? What are the laws in Cambridge that govern this kind of interaction? Did you ever think you were in the wrong?

HLG: The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.

It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything. He turned his back to me and turned back to the porch. And I followed him. I kept saying, “I want your name, and I want your badge number.”

It looked like an ocean of police had gathered on my front porch. There were probably half a dozen police officers at this point. The mistake I made was I stepped onto the front porch and asked one of his colleagues for his name and badge number. And when I did, the same officer said, ‘Thank you for accommodating our request. You are under arrest.’ And he handcuffed me right there. It was outrageous. My hands were behind my back I said, ‘I’m handicapped. I walk with a cane. I can’t walk to the squad car like this.’ There was a huddle among the officers; there was a black man among them. They removed the cuffs from the back and put them around the front.

A crowd had gathered, and as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car, I said, ‘Is this how you treat a black man in America?’

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,2

Obviously given the two sides you automatically take the side of the officer when yourself wasn't there. If there is anyone that feels pain over this is Gates. He didn't break any laws but had to go through the humiliating process of being fingerprinted and in jail over some imaginary pain this officer feels and I'm sure in some point in his life he has experienced worse behavior then Gates could've shown. I tend to believe a friend of President Obama over a cop who says he didn't vote for Obama. It shows me the character of the person. Yet you feel for the officer that likely voted for McCain over a personal friend of President Obama.

[DRoseDARs]

19. "Obviously given the two sides you automatically take the side of the officer"

"Believe me, I don't trust cops in general as a rule" from my post (oddly numbered #1 after the first response to the OP) earlier in the thread.

I really don't want to get into a pissing match here over Gates, I just wanted to make the point the he was far from a defenseless, elderly disabled man. He's a highly-educated professor who can do a LOT of damage with his words and knows it. One would hope that he uses his powers for Good and not Evil (we can be pretty sure he intends for Good). Sgt. Crowley learned a hard lesson in all this, regardless if he's an out-and-out racist, just dimwittedly biased, or a victim of Gates' vocal misgivings of the officer's presence on his property and subsequent actions.

[JonLP24]

20. I don't either

I only hang out in the Sports forum these days due to the lack of hot button issues discussed there and it is dead right now despite me accounting for 4 of the last 5 posts which is why I'm here in LBN and GD. I sometimes can't help myself especially to the post seemingly trying to bring Gates into in all this in some way I can't figure out that's relevant. That said I have no problem with the police arriving there in the first place and with regards to the OP which I'm not trying to highjack and I'll space so it sticks out.

That it is horrible for this to happen to the responding officers in the case of the OP. And I don't bash cops all the time, just when they're wrong.

[DRoseDARs]

21. Just makes you feel dirty, doesn't it? Not "Venturing into Freeperville" dirty, but still unclean.

I need shower whenever I blunder into the Israel/Palestine forum. ;)

[zbdent]

25. "if you believe 100% of what is in the police report" ... depends on which report filed

that you read, right?

[Cha]

56. That's a fucking stupid

thing to say.

[ovidsen]

11. I agree with most of the response here so far.

Yes, there are dirty cops. As a former big city street reporter I've seen them. As a law abiding, peaceful civilian I was locked up by one a few years ago (the non-violent misdemeanors I was charged with were tossed when I was arraigned... after 3 days in a county jail holding pen).

But I believe the majority of law enforcement officers in the US do a commendable job that many of us (including me) would not, or could not do with any consistent degree of fairness or compassion. I don't know a thing about the deputies who died here, or about the man charged with gunning them down.

But I'm willing to bet that neither victim deserved to be killed, or even attacked.

(edited for typo)

[DRoseDARs]

22. Getting myself on-topic, sounds like a disturbed man itching for a fight or suicide-by-cop.

And that poor woman outside. :(

[NeoConsSuck]

23. I have a big problem with this:

"When they knocked on the door, the suspect came out, Mr. Holbert, firing a weapon," Brown said.

A witness, Bryan Hause, told the Oklahoman the deputies kicked the door in and "the guy was sitting there waiting on him and shot him."


So what was it? They 'knocked' on the door and the suspect came out, or they kicked the door in? While it doesn't justify Holbert's actions, it appears this is yet another case of where we have two versions of what happened: The police version, and the actual version.

[saigon68]

26. When doors are KICKED IN

Bad responses sometimes follow

[bemildred]

52. "Police said Holbert surrendered and was taken into custody."

Maybe kicking the door in was the mistake here?

[cosmicone]

33. Precisely

Cops make the reports fit to their view of reality. There is nothing objective in them except for the name of the suspect, name of the cop and the date.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LanternWaste]

54. One does not deny the other...

One version does not deny the other version.

Possibility-- Knocked. No answer, yet sound from inside. Then kick the door in.

It's usually not necessarily an either-or proposition. More usual is that we ourselves allow our biases to validate a conclusion.

[HardWorkingDem]

40. When it comes to cops, this place is just great, just great...(sarcasm)

I just love the anonymous aspect of the internet and the "freedom" it gives people, especially when it comes to cops and cop bashing at DU.

Here we have two people killed by a person while doing their job and STILL there is nasty cop bashing.

But what I find utterly disgusting is how so many here partake in the same type of practice that would lead to these same people being labeled as something real nasty if the word "cop" was switched to black, woman, gay or any other type of identifier, with the type of venom they spew.

Yes, there are cops that deserve the anger and ridicule and detestation that they deserve, so single them out, not the whole occupation.


Still, I am very thankful for those here that continue to defend cops and criticize the others who stereotypically throw them all in the same barrel.

[cosmicone]

42. You are entitled to feel the way you do and it is quite

reasonable to see it that way.

I don't think any cop-bashers rejoice in seeing the loss of two young lives and I think everyone's condolences are with the families of those who died.

What one objects to is a special treatment given to cops when they die. It is a rebellion against fascist authority which almost every cop I have encountered exhibited.

When cops die, hundreds of cops from a 200 mile radius gather for their funerals, all in uniform, all burning gas, using official vehicles, all earning overtime. It is utterly unnecessary.

Then there are hundreds of cases of cops torturing and killing people and making up stories of how they felt threatened, all supported by fellow cops. They always stick together and almost never blow a whistle against one of their own.

How many cops came forward after the Rodney King beating? How many cops came forward when the Haitian immigrant was brutalized in NYC? How many cops have come forward to convict the cop who shot and killed a restrained and unarmed BART passenger in Oakland on New Year's day?

When cops are able to uphold the law against their own with the same ferocity that they go against the general public, perhaps the perception will change.

[Paladin]

44. You're Pissing On Those Two Cops' Graves. Fuck Off, Permanently. (n/t)

[cosmicone]

47. Sorry officer, I wasn't speeding! n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. People who die in service to their community deserve respect.

Soldier, sailor, firefighter, cop, teacher, professor.

Refusing to provide that minimal level of respect is no badge of honor.

[cosmicone]

48. I don't disagree with that. n/t

[PittPoliSci]

55. Kinda simliar to the incident that happened in Pittsburgh in April.

the cops were called, suspect was waiting for them and just blew them away. Fucking disgusting.

[Supply Side Jesus]

57. Disgusting

Even with the thread discussing 2 officers deaths, the anti-cop fanatics can't resist taking jabs at the dead even before the bodies are cold. Fucking disgusting pukes.