Ehud Barak warns Iran of possible Israeli strike on nuclear facilities

[The abyss]

Source: Times OnLine

With the US Defence Secretary standing at his side, Ehud Barak, Israel’s Defence Minister, today warned Iran that a military strike on its nuclear facilities was still an option.

“We clearly believe that no option should be removed from the table. This is our policy. We mean it. We recommend to others to take the same position but we cannot dictate it to anyone,” Mr Barak said at a press conference with Robert Gates in Jerusalem.


Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6729276.ece

[xultar]

1. US Defence Secretary standing at his side...Seriously tell me this ain't true.

[Zhade]

44. Given Obama's broken promises, letting criminals walk and corporate giveaways -- you're surprised?

NT!

[no_hypocrisy]

2. We mean it.

That's convincing.

[David__77]

3. I would be utterly shocked if this occurred.

It would certainly lead to a much wider war and the total polarization of the region. It would be disastrous to US interests in the region.

[stumprancher]

4. The Israelis have got to do, what they have got to do.

Do you thing an Iranian nuke on Tel Aviv would be in our best interest?

[Flaneur]

5. Do you really think Iran would nuke Israel? Really?

What Israel is talking about is an act of war. If it starts that shit, it deserves the consequences.

[WriteDown]

9. Ahmadinejad's quotes on Israel (He's a card!)

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

"If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated."

"Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."

"Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."

[Howardx]

10. do you have links for those quotes?

neutral non israeli links?

[WriteDown]

12. Just type in

Ahmadinejad's quotes in google. You'll find plenty of links, video, etc.

[Howardx]

13. how about if you provide links

if youre going to "quote" people.

[WriteDown]

17. Because whatever I provide won't be good enough for you...

better to find your own. :)

[Howardx]

19. so basically youre telling me

you cannot provide a neutral non israeli source for your quotes. i figured as much.

[WriteDown]

20. Try youtube...

They've got plenty of video.

[Howardx]

22. im not going to try anything

you posted the quotes, unless you provide links they are worthless.

[WriteDown]

23. You're right.....

They also don't hang gays in Iran. I couldn't find any links I liked. :eyes:

[Howardx]

25. bullshit ploy

it shouldnt be shocking to you that someone wants to know the source of your quotes, the fact that youre now trying to muddy the waters with some tangental bullshit just makes you look worse.

[WriteDown]

26. Go to youtube

type "ahmadinejad death to israel."

If you can't do that, then I can't help you. Also, Neda isn't dead. Israel set her up in a sweet penthouse in Tel Aviv after she faked her own death in Iran to stir trouble. True story.

[Howardx]

27. lets just clarify this a bit

are you saying that those quotes are from youtube videos of ahmadinejad?

do you speak farsi?

if you dont speak farsi who did the translation of the speeches?

why is it you cant even post the links to these alleged youtube videos you claim to be using as a source?

[oberliner]

31. The Iran Republic News Agency usually translates most of his speeches into English

In fact, they were the initial source of the "wiped off the map" translation.

Edit to add:

Correction: It was IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting that published that translation.

[WriteDown]

33. Ah, you're a "mistranslater", the birthers of the left....

In that case Ahmadinejad is the most mistranslated person in history. Even his recent actions against the protesters have been mistranslated! :rofl:

[Howardx]

35. insults but still no links

speaks for itself really.

[WriteDown]

40. Sorry...

I have a hard time dealing with mistranslaters.

[Howardx]

41. i feel the same way about propagandists

[WriteDown]

43. Yeah....

I just told you where to find the info. Don't worry, I've got plenty of links on the way.

[oberliner]

30. In post #29 I've tried to include links from various news outlets that reported all the quotes

Hope that helps!

[SOS]

94. The chop off the heads of "witches" in Saudi Arabia

You can visit "Chop Chop Square" in Riyadh and have tea at 9AM.
Twice a week, a alcohol user, a poor immigrant or a witch is dragged out and beheaded for the amusement of the crowd.
Should the US/Israel attack Saudi Arabia for human rights abuses?

[oberliner]

29. Links

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/

"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,400603,00.html

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?questionID=341

"If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled", Ahmadinejad said. "As it has lost its raison d'etre, Israel will be annihilated."

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2006/05/11/UPI_NewsTrack_TopNews/UPI-17871147350927/

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also intensified his verbal attacks on Israel, calling it a "a tyrannical regime that one day will be destroyed."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2006/05/11/international/i063957D96.DTL&type=printable

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran appeared to threaten Israel with a nuclear attack yesterday when he described it as a "rotten, dried tree" that would be annihilated by "one storm".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/1515833/Israel-will-be-annihilated-in-one-storm-says-Iran-leader.html

Hope that is helpful.

[WriteDown]

34. You were willing to go to...

far more effort than I was. Thanks for that!

[Howardx]

36. useless effort

as i have that person on permanent ignore

[WriteDown]

39. Too bad for you

From the post:

Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinej... /

"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,400603,00.ht...

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?qu...

"If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled", Ahmadinejad said. "As it has lost its raison d'etre, Israel will be annihilated."

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2006/05/11/UPI_NewsTrack_To... /

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also intensified his verbal attacks on Israel, calling it a "a tyrannical regime that one day will be destroyed."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/200...

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran appeared to threaten Israel with a nuclear attack yesterday when he described it as a "rotten, dried tree" that would be annihilated by "one storm".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/ir...

Hope that is helpful.

[WriteDown]

42. And here's more

From the post:

The Iran Republic News Agency usually translates most of his speeches into English
In fact, they were the initial source of the "wiped off the map" translation.

Edit to add:

Correction: It was IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting that published that translation.

[oberliner]

60. Not sure why the "permanent ignore" is necessary

I thought we always had pleasant discussions and polite disagreements on this board.

[LeftishBrit]

87. There are a few people who put their fingers in their ears over even polite disagreement

However, it does give one some ideas! Why don't countries that dislike each other, such as Israel and Iran, simply put each other on 'Permanent Ignore', whatever that may be? It would be so much simpler and safer than the present situation!

[oberliner]

61. You are welcome

I'm not sure why the quotes would have been challenged in the first place as they have been fairly well documented.

[SkyDaddy7]

38. I think, well, I know many here simply like to argue...

It really does not matter what it is about they just jump on the opposite side and stand there as if there was actually a place to stand. Just an observation...


NO, I will not post examples or links! LOL!


Oh yeah, thanks for those links...Kinda sad though, as if anyone who has been alive actually needed to see them.

[Hippo_Tron]

59. Ahmadinejad does not control the nuclear program

And history is full of people who make menacing statements for political posturing rather than a statement of their true intentions. On the other hand, history is not particularly full of suicidal heads of state. There's no good reason to believe that Iran is one.

[EstoniaKat]

89. When someone tell you that they want to kill you ...

You would be advised to take them at their word.

I think the '30s taught them that.

[David__77]

6. I don't know what you're talking about?

What happened, or is about to happen, in Tel Aviv?

Countries, of course, will pursue policies deemed to be in their self-interest. All I said is what the implication of strike on Iran would be for the US. Each country must decide its own course.

[MUAD_DIB]

11. If Israel attacks Iran the who is the aggressor?

Israel should play its cards close to its chest and not fan the flames.

[stumprancher]

16. Considering that Iran has already attacked Israel

Considering that Iran has already attacked Israel through it's proxies, I would say the Israel has every right to protect itself in any way it sees fit.

[MUAD_DIB]

21. If Israel peruses open war then they will be seen as the aggressor.

Don't make up excuses for them.

One could argue that Iran has indeed attacked Israel through its proxies. One could also argue that Israel is indeed a colonial power that is bent on West bank annexation.

Instead of arguing for possible war all sides should be pushing for a real peace.


Consider that if Israel wanted to nuke Iran what kind of retaliation might ensue from that event, and what kind of new attacks would Israel experience from Hamas and Hezbollah alone?

[stumprancher]

46. A colonial power in their own land?

Judea and Samaria were part of Israel for millenia and it is up to the local Arabs to work out a deal with them. The Persians have no dog in this fight and need to butt out and stop making threats. Israel has every right to protect itself when threatened with absolute destruction.

[MUAD_DIB]

48. Oh, here come the 2,000 year old claims.

:rofl:

No, Israel is a colonial power in another peoples land: The Palestinians.

Israel's borders were laid down in 1948.


It's very telling that you refer to them as Arabs.

[stumprancher]

62. Uh, they are Arabs.

When has "Palestine" ever existed as an independent country?

[MUAD_DIB]

65. And now the other racist shoe drops.

You guys are too predictable. It's time for Israel to remove itself from Palestinian land instead of destroying a people.

[LeftishBrit]

84. Lots of countries didn't exist as independent states - until they did.

The USA didn't till 1776.

I don't think you're making much of a point here.

[Zhade]

47. So you'd be fine with murdering innocent children who happened to be born in Iran?

I mean, I just want to see how morally repugnant you are.

[The Stranger]

53. Iran has not attacked Israel.

That's bullshit.

[Zhade]

45. THE STUPID -- IT BURNS! And just what nukes would they use, genius?

The nonexistent ones they DON'T have?

And you think they'd nuke their own neighbor and give their own country cancer?

Man, you freepers are really fucking stupid.

[leveymg]

7. Not this crap again.

What is this, the nineteenth final ultimatum?

All that Iran has to do is continue not overreacting to this nonsense, most of which is for Israeli domestic consumption, and nothing is going to happen.:eyes:

[captain jack]

8. Sounds like a threat to Iranian security to me. I guess Iran should also not rule out any options.

[MUAD_DIB]

14. Bush's invasion of Iraq has made this all more possible.

Iran may have been planning on building a nuke for some time, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that they sped up their program after all the saber rattling from BushCo.

What a waste of 8 years. :(

[junior college]

15. If anything, Iran should bomb Israel

Of course I would rather see peace in the region but it is Israel that actually has nukes.

[MUAD_DIB]

24. Are you actually wishing to see Israeli dead?

:wtf:

[Behind the Aegis]

32. You sound surprised.

[MUAD_DIB]

49. The poster is either a troll or unhinged.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. Not as uncommon here as one might think.

[MUAD_DIB]

51. Which group: trolls or the unhinged?

[Behind the Aegis]

52. Those who want to see Israel as a big parking lot.

So, I guess trolls and the unhinged, and unhinged trolls.

[MUAD_DIB]

54. I was going to add the later but I thought it redundant.

[junior college]

57. Certainly not, and I don't want anyone bombed

I was just trying to point out that it is Israel who has the operational nukes, not Iran. Many people here at DU support a strike on Iran, but I think that Israel is a far more dangerous, aggressive and unpredictable country. The fact that most people in Israel are white and Westernized is probably why they get the support they do.

[proteus_lives]

28. And someone drops their mask.

:puke:

[ohio2007]

37. "Inside Job" by the "Who stole my voter" crowd....

just saying.
expect the unexpected

[LeftishBrit]

56. Wow. No one should bomb anyone!

[The abyss]

18. I find it fascinating that Barak

would actually make this comment with Gates at his side during a press conference.

That would appear to me he is directly challenging current U.S. policy toward Israel.

[bemildred]

68. I would wager he got permission.

You gotta remember this is all political theater for the domestic Israeli audience. These "threats" are issued more of less weekly, and that has been going on for years now. I think Barak is considered "moderate" or something compared to Nuttyahoo, one of the guys we want to work with and support, so I'm guessing Gates went along in that spirit. The Iranians have been ignoring the "threats" right along, and there is no reason to think this one will not be ignored too.

So, to summarize: Gates is there to give Barak and the "threat" credibility with the gullible Israeli political audience, so he's doing Barak a little favor. I do wonder if Gates got anything in return.

[bemildred]

69. Gates Says U.S. Overture to Iran Is ‘Not Open-Ended’

AMMAN, Jordan — Strains between the United States and Israel surfaced publicly in Jerusalem on Monday, as Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates tried to reassure Israelis that American overtures to Iran were not open-ended, and as Defense Minister Ehud Barak of Israel expressed impatience with the Americans for wanting to engage Iran at all.

“I don’t think that it makes any sense at this stage to talk a lot about it,” Mr. Barak said at a joint news conference with Mr. Gates at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, referring to the American offer to talk to Iran about giving up its nuclear program. Nonetheless, he said Israel was in no position to tell the United States what to do.

But, alluding to a potential Israeli military strike against Iran if it gains nuclear weapons capability, he added: “We clearly believe that no options should be removed from the table. This is our policy, we mean it, we recommend to others to take the same position, but we cannot dictate to anyone.”

Later, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met with Mr. Gates, and his office released a statement saying that he had pressed Mr. Gates on the need to use “all means” to keep Iran from gaining a nuclear weapon.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/world/middleeast/28military.html?_r=1&hpw

[The abyss]

70. I just put this up on LBN

I wanted to link to this discussion... but felt it deserved a topic of its own.

I saw your link after I posted, sorry.

[bemildred]

71. There is nothing wrong with that, and no need to apologize.

:hi:

[The abyss]

74. 10-4

[timtom]

55. This reminds me of

telling someone you're going to sue them

or

telling them you have a gun and you are going to draw it and use it.

[davidpdx]

58. Christ, they threaten to start WWIII again

Enough of this crap.

[Algorem]

63. Was Barak even born in Israel?

[Behind the Aegis]

64. It wasn't known as Israel, but it is now Israel proper.

So, he is an original inhabitant of Israel. Your point?

[Algorem]

66. I'm pretty sure he's Norwegian.

Sure,I'm just as itchy as anybody to bomb Iran asap,but I'll be damned if I want some Norwegian doing my bombing for me.You know,all this "narny-narny" stuff.Can't stand it.

[Behind the Aegis]

67. Norwegian? Uh-huh.

Sorry, bukco, he's Israeli and was born there.

[Algorem]

72. No.Wasn't.

[Behind the Aegis]

75. Yes. Was.

Though not called Israel at the time, it was in an area by the UN Partition. It sure wasn't Norway. The real question is why you are making this shit up as if it means something?

[U4ikLefty]

73. There was no Israel in 1942.

It was called Palestine.

[Behind the Aegis]

76. It was called Palestine Mandate.

He was born in an area that became Israel 8 years later. It was as I said in my post prior to the intial question. So, why does it matter? He is an Israeli and has always lived in the area.

[U4ikLefty]

77. Never said it matters.

Your post was abmbiguous.

[Behind the Aegis]

78. No, it wasn't.

He is Israeli. He was born there. The place where he was born is now known as a part of Israel. This argument is nothing more than an idiotic and bigoted way of pretending all Israelis, especially Jews, are nothing more than interlopers.

[U4ikLefty]

85. Don't try to paint me as a bigot/idiot & I won't call you an asshole...deal?

I wonder if you think of those Israelis that are occupying pre-1967 Palestine are "interlopers"?

[Behind the Aegis]

86. It wasn't you, so chill out.

I don't think Israelis are interlopers. In your defensive response, you failed to get the message. Typical.

[LeftishBrit]

93. Norwegian???? I don't think so!

Sounds like you've spent too much time around the right-wing and caught a bad case of Birtheritis!

[The abyss]

79. Self delete

[laststeamtrain]

80. Israel on Iran: Anything it takes to stop nukes

Source: AP

Israel on Iran: Anything it takes to stop nukes
By ANNE GEARAN, AP National Security Writer 40 mins ago

JERUSALEM – Israel hardened its insistence Monday that it would do anything it felt necessary to stop Iran from getting a nuclear bomb, just the ultimatum the United States hoped not to hear as it tried to nudge Iran to the bargaining table.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates reassured Israel that the new Obama administration was not naive about Iran's intentions, and that Washington would press for new, tougher sanctions against the Iranians if they balk. He didn't say what those might include.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak used a brief news conference with Gates to insist three times that Israel would not rule out any response — an implied warning that it would consider a pre-emptive strike to thwart Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090727/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/ml_israel_us

[shadowknows69]

81. How are we trying to nudge them toward the negotiation table

With Sec. Clinton spewing the same garbage?

[defendandprotect]

82. Biden was pushing this "Israel has a right to attack Iran" line last week -- !!!

Disgusting!!!

[no_hypocrisy]

83. Nobody's come up with enough money to bribe Iran?

That's "anything".

[Joe Bacon]

88. THe nuts are playing into Hagee's hands.

Hagee wants to finish what Hitler started and the idiot government in Israel is playing right into his hands.

I wonder what Hagee will say when JC and his Sonshine Band pull a no show after Israel commits suicide over Iran?

[Phoonzang]

90. I hope they don't think this will be as easy as taking out Syria's reactors.

[Douglas Carpenter]

91. Israel alone does not have the means to carry out a successful attack against Iran

in a manner capable of significantly degrading Iran's nuclear program and their military.

If Israel were to launch a non-nuclear preemptive strike, The Israeli military simply does not have enough long range bombers capable of flying approximately one thousand miles and successfully attacking Iran's massive array of North Korean style deep earth, heavily fortified bunkers.

Furthermore an attack would require flying over Iraqi airspace when no democratically elected government in Iraq would ever, ever allow that. Talk of an awkward position that would the United State in.

The United States would find itself trapped into intervening given that Iran would retaliate against the U.S. presence in the Gulf. For the U.S. to continue such an attack and to make the attack at least technically successful, this would require forcing the Gulf states into granting rights to air space and facilities. Thus making the Gulf states and their oil fields, refineries, infrastructure and transport network targets of devastating Iranian retaliation. Although Iran does not have particularly sophisticated weaponry, they do have a vast array of relatively unsophisticated medium range missiles positioned in hostile and unapproachable terrain and quite capable of causing enormous and crippling damage very rapidly and choking off the Straits of Hormuz.

Even more importantly, any attack by either the United States or Israel on Iran would have a catastrophic effect on the world's oil supply thus sending oil prices into the stratosphere way beyond anything currently imaginable thus making the current global economic collapse lead inevitably into a massive worldwide depression of catastrophic proportions.

Would Israel really want to be seen in the eyes of the world as the ones who caused the worse global depression and economic collapse in modern history, to say nothing of a protracted and probably unsuccessful war with absolutely massive carnage and destruction? I do not think even Benjamin Netanyahu is that mad. At least I hope not.

U.S. Intelligence Says Iran Ended Atomic Arms Work in 2003

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/world/middleeast/03cnd-iran.html?_r=2

"But the new estimate declares with “high confidence” that a military-run Iranian program intended to transform that raw material into a nuclear weapon has been shut down since 2003, and also says with high confidence that the halt “was directed primarily in response to increasing international scrutiny and pressure.”

The estimate does not say when American intelligence agencies learned that the weapons program had been halted, but a statement issued by Donald Kerr, the principal director of national intelligence, said the document was being made public “since our understanding of Iran’s capabilities has changed.”"

Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons in August 2005

In the Iranian system the elected parliament and president have limited powers. By far the single most powerful person is Chief of State Grand Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. He has the final say. In addition to his political position--within the Shiite version of Islam he is what is known as a marja'a. Ayatollah Sistani in Iraq is also a a marja'a. A fatwa is a final religious decision absolutely binding on all Shiites within that marja'a's domain. All fatwas issued by a maja'a are written down and publicly announced. They carry almost as much weight as sacred scripture

Ayatollah Khamenei issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons in August 2005. Even if other mullahs or ayatollahs would disagree or make a contrary declaration - Ayatollah Khamanei's decision would over ride them and would be the final word in matters of the Iranian state and to any Shiite believers within Ayatollah Khamenei's domain which would include almost all Iranian Shiites.

*This is the statement regarding Ayatollah Khamanei's fatwa which comes from the website of the Islamic Republic of Iran:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei#cite_note-irna-61

*click on reference # 61.

[The abyss]

92. Russia and Iran Join Hands

Interesting, I hadn't seen this.


http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23146.htm

July 28, 2009 "Asia Times" -- The United States may think of Russia as a strategic partner when it comes to Iran. In reality, the geostrategic tensions between Washington and Moscow are still powerful enough to warrant a common approach by Russia and its eastern neighbor Iran with respect to a deterrent strategy towards the intrusive Western superpower.

This week, a small but significant clue is on full display with joint Russia-Iran military exercises in the Caspian Sea involving some 30 vessels. This is partially disguised by a benign environmental cause.

The maneuver, dubbed "Regional Collaboration for a Secure and Clean Caspian", combines security and maritime objectives in the Caspian Sea, the world's largest lake and also a main energy hub that is now the scene of competing alternatives for energy transfer. It signals a new trend in Iran-Russia military cooperation that will most likely increase in the near and intermediate future in light of Iran's observer status at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. The continuing standoff over Iran's nuclear program should affect this warming of relations.

Iran's willingness to join this exercise represents a complete about-face from seven years ago. In May 2002, Tehran reacted sharply to a Russian military exercise in the Caspian - held in the aftermath of a failed summit on the issue - by refusing to even send a military observer to the maneuver.

Despite all the ups and downs of Iran-Russia relations since then, the weight of geopolitical and geo-economic considerations on both countries has increasingly switched towards greater cooperation, much to the chagrin of Washington, which is keen on isolating "nuclearizing Iran".

At a time when Russia feels undermined by US-backed pipeline projects in the region, as well as dismayed by the absence of any compromise by the Barack Obama administration on its planned installation of an anti-missile shield in Eastern Europe, Moscow's intention to upgrade its military connections with Tehran is calculated. The signal to Washington is that Russia does not tolerate any direct or indirect "regime change" scenario with respect to Iran, a major pillar of anti-US sentiment in the region.