Pregnant Women at front of H1N1 Vaccine line.

[sarcasmo]

Source: Reuters

Snip< ATLANTA — Pregnant women should be the first to get vaccinated against the new pandemic H1N1 influenza virus, federal health experts told a U.S. advisory panel on Wednesday.

Pregnant women are at special risk from the new strain, and vaccinating them protects their newborns, too, Dr. Anthony Fiore of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention told a meeting of vaccine advisers to his agency.

Read more: http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20090729/NEWS-US-FLU-VACCINE-USA/

---

Line up sheep, go get your vaccine.

[Oregone]

1. How old are you?

What is your gender BTW?

[sarcasmo]

4. Right off the bat it's going to be a gender bashing thread, let me self delete.

[Oregone]

9. Look, you bashed people getting it as "sheep" to start.

I'm just trying to find out your age, more than gender actually (but that helps too).

When the target is pointed on one's back, more than another, their outlook can be vividly different. Its judgmental to call people sheep.

Pregnant woman are very susceptible to all kinds of viruses and bacteria (they should not so much as eat Feta cheese). Pregnant woman are, 90%+ of them, between the age range of the median age of hospitalization (20) and median age of death (37) from H1N1 flu.

If the chances of someone dying or ending up in the hospital, based on age and conditions alone, are many times higher than your own, you shouldn't be tossing stones at them.

[rantormusing]

26. I know and I'm getting sick of it

It's been popping up more and more across threads, i was reading this morning about that poor child who got killed by his mother, and in the OP and immediate comments it was the father's fault.


:wtf:


I don't have a strong opinion either way on this particular vaccination, probably won't get it myself, but it's an individuals choice.

[redqueen]

63. Welcome to DU.

[Robb]

64. No kidding.

...How do you get sick of something after six days? :rofl:

[rd_kent]

65. How can you possibly be getting "sick" of it

when you only have 10 posts?

[high density]

2. sheep?

I really don't get the rabid anti-vaccine crowd on this forum.

[sarcasmo]

5. Is there no opposing view points allowed any more on this site?

[high density]

7. Opposing what, modern medicine and science?

Yes, that is a questionable angle to be coming from.

[kimmerspixelated]

12. Yes, one worries about pregnant women.

But one also worries about the safety of said untested vax!!!

And by the way, there is good reason to distrust almost all of modern medicine!

Death by Modern Medicine? It happens!

That's why folks question these things, FYI.

[high density]

13. The overall idea of a flu vaccine is a very "tested" proposition.

The H1N1 vaccine is currently undergoing human trials, per the article.

Death by Flu? It happens!

[LeftishBrit]

50. While I will hold judgement on the vaccine untill it's been tested....

there is no more reason to 'distrust almost all of modern medicine' than to distrust anything else in the world. People have died from drinking too much water; from sun exposure; etc. - and yes, people have died from modern medicine, but FAR MORE have died from the LACK of modern medicine.

There have been dramatic increases in life expectancy in western countries in the last 50 years; and this is largely due to modern medicine and access to it.

I'm one who would have died without modern medicine - and I consider it as one of the most precious things in the world, and a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.

I hope your country finally allows everyone the basic human right to access to modern medicine.

[kimmerspixelated]

66. With all due respect,

One reason the last 50 years has been better has to do with more widespread sanitation and nutrition.
Having said that, is it a good idea to get vaxed when traveling to countries without good sanitation or nutrition? Probably... Yes, certain antibiotics have saved lives, of course there are emergencies...and medical technology is good surgery is better, but do you really need meds for things dietary changes/exercise can fix?

On note: One reason the Black Plague got out of hand, was due to religious bastards who thought cats were evil witches or part of the devil's plans and they were banished or killed. Voila! Lots of rats taking over!!! Sometimes diseases have beginnings/destinies in stupidity.

[Devil_Fish]

22. The last time the government told us to get a swine flu vac, people died and were paralized.

they use U.S. as guinie pigs and you wounder why people on DU are anti Vac? I'm not even confortable with the vacs my soon to be born child will get any way. has this new h1n1 vac even been tested?

[OhioChick]

27. You didn't get the memo, did you?

;)

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. If it's people that you oppose, by insulting them as 'sheep'

then that isn't what this site is meant for. Try putting forward an argument against the vaccine, rather than just insulting entire populations by calling them 'sheep'.

[leftynyc]

58. Opposing views are fine

Calling people who disagree with your position sheep is childish. Starting a fire and complaining about a flame war is moronic.

[bluestateguy]

3. If you don't want it, don't get it

Stay out of the way of the people that do, and that includes snide, snot-ass remarks.

[sarcasmo]

6. Don't reply with a snide remark to my thread then, un rec it like the rest of them will.

[Devil_Fish]

23. great idea, unless it is mandated. NT

[sarcasmo]

8. self delete

[hedgehog]

10. Did you even read the link?

"trials in human volunteers are looking at the question and the advice may be changed later."

"clinical trials are also looking at this issue."

It sounds to me as if the CDC is closely monitoring the situation and is prepared to change its advice if new information emerges.

[Lance_Boyle]

60. I wonder how they got ANY IRB to approve testing vaccines on pregnant women.

Pregnant women (even "women who may become pregnant" are excluded populations pretty much by default in clinical trials.

[Robb]

11. Sheep?

Dale Carnegie you ain't. :eyes:

Breaking: sheep line up to get cavities filled, wounds banadaged. Film at 11.

[4lbs]

14. Tens of thousands of Americans die each year from the regular flu.

Also, hundreds of thousands are hospitalized.

Many of them could have been prevented with vaccination.

I can't recall of any vaccine that kills thousands per year.

If it's a choice between the lethality of a virus or bacterium, versus modern medicine to fight them, I'll choose the vaccine and modern medicine.

[Norrin Radd]

49. Hypothetical question: would you submit to a trial HIV vaccine?

[4lbs]

53. Yeah, if I plan on regularly engaging in contact with people that have HIV.

Regarding the flu, I get annual flu shots, because in my work, I meet lots of clients, some of whom will be exposed to the flu through their families or other contacts. Thus I will be exposed to the flu quite often in the normal course of business.

Now, since I've only been in contact with a HIV-positive person just two or three times in the past decade, I don't see how an HIV vaccine would benefit me.

However, if I was going to do missionary work in Africa, where there are millions of HIV-positive citizens, then I would take a HIV vaccine. I would still take precautions to limit possibility of infection (i.e. if I have a cut on my finger then don't touch anything with blood or saliva on it, don't have unprotected sex with anyone, etc.) I would also take the new updated BCG TB vaccine, even though it might not work against some of the resistant TB strains there.

[winyanstaz]

15. and what is the result of "testing" done on pregnant women and fetus

as a result of this flu shot? Anyone know? I understand in europe they are recommending this shot and have just waved all pre-testing. Sheesh

[LaurenG]

19. They are still testing it.

Children's hospital in Cincinnati is testing it here now, no final or preliminary findings have been released yet as far as I know.

I do know that the labs making the vaccine are having to use an adjutant to stretch the vaccine and there was some concern about that.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/07/22/swine.flu.vaccine.trials/

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Are you a child?

My I was close in the triage list...

WOOHOO FOR ME!

Ok, damn it I was only off with one group I did not consider, pregnant women... but it does make sense, a bad CK reaction and you lose two lives.

[proteus_lives]

17. Ok, I'll bite. What's wrong with getting a vaccine?

:shrug:

[4lbs]

24. There is a small group of people that believe that many of the health conditions in kids the past

several decades has been caused by vaccines.

Things like autism, food allergies, and ADD/hyperactivity.

[proteus_lives]

28. Is it a fringe theory?

Or does it have some proof behind it?

[4lbs]

30. Well, so far, several large studies on autism didn't find any significant link between autism

and vaccines.

For example:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/26/nation/na-autism26


Yet, those that still think there is a link between autism and vaccines have come up with all sorts of reasons, from the thimerasol, to egg whites used in growing cultures, to even impurities in the saline solution mixed with the vaccine culture. So far, nothing definitive that could be easily repeated and shown to be other than chance.

[BeHereNow]

45. Ever talk to the parents of an autistic child?

I have- at least a hundred.
I would say 80% have told me they noticed the signs
of autism, in their otherwise HEALTHY toddler, AFTER a vaccine.
LA Times? As a NEWS link?
You've GOT to be kidding...
Why not post something from Fox news on the topic while
you're at it.

BHN

[4lbs]

46. Ok, how about you provide absolute, undeniable proof that vaccines cause autism?

I've been vaccinated with pretty much every vaccine known to humankind when I was a child and didn't get autism. I had to be vaccinated like crazy, because I was born outside the U.S. It was required for my parents to be able to bring me into the country.

Hundreds of millions of people around the world have been vaccinated as children and yet we don't have hundreds of millions of autistic people.

So, ever think there might be a major genetic component to autism, unrelated to vaccines? Something along the lines of Tay-Sachs? A man and a woman who are genetic carriers marry non-carriers and everything's fine with the children. However, if that man and woman who are carriers marry each other and produce a child, there's a 25% chance of the infant developing it.

[BeHereNow]

47. Talk to these parents-

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/jan-june07/autism_6-20.html

Read this, not that you ever bother to read any links and provide none for your claims...

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/12/11/autism-liability.aspx
http://dissidentvoice.org/Feb05/Pringle0207-2.htm
And the REALLY telling story, as in Bush included in the Homeland Security Act,
PROTECTION for the pharma cartel in parents seeking legal action against the manufacturers.
PLEASE tell me what that has to do with Homeland security?

http://www.newswithviews.com/NWVexclusive/exclusive6.htm

I really doubt you will actually read any of these links, but who knows?

BHN

[4lbs]

48. Where's the proof again? What vaccine, or what part of what vaccine definitively causes autism?

If you say Substance A in Vaccine B causes autism, then every child who gets substance A in vaccine B should develop autism right?

Where does it show that?

Here's what I read from those links:

<snip>
Although several major scientific studies have found no connection between thimerosal and autism, the parents filing the suit point to the sharp rise in the number of autism diagnoses over the past decade and insist the increase is a direct result of mercury-laced vaccinations.
<snip>

All I know is that nothing in your links has provided DEFINITIVE proof that thimerosal causes autism. Yet, I provided a link in a post above to a comprehensive Italian scientific study released earlier this year that couldn't find any connection between thimerosal and autism. In fact, they found that the single child that developed autism in their study received almost no thimerosal whatsoever.

Where's this link to the CDC study? It's mentioned, but I want to read the actual study for myself. I want to read the actual words and conclusions myself.

[msanthrope]

61. Talk to me. I have an autistic child.

It wasn't caused by the vaccines.

It wasn't caused by 'toxins'.

Take your woo and shove it.

[LaurenG]

18. In my area 41 people have died from swine flu - 6 were healthy PREGNANT women

What do you want the CDC to do with those stats? (In Indiana a 26 year old died of H1N1 Monday, her 19 year old brother died a bit earlier from H1N1.)

The prediction is that the swine flu will hit hard and fast once school starts. What would you recommend?

[KoKo]

33. Do you have links to those articles? Just so we know...

[BeHereNow]

34. Yes, links would be appreciated...

Did a search, can't find any thing on that claim in the news.
BHN

[LaurenG]

51. This was from a teleconference yesterday but here is an article from

A newspaper article in San Francisco giving pretty much the same stats.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Pregnant-women-appear-vulnerable-to-swine-flu-death-51946997.html

[LaurenG]

56. Here is the report on the Indiana family

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090728/NEWS01/307280003/1168/NEWS0101/Mother+loses+children+to+swine+flu

I will also check to be sure about the stats given to me yesterday. If its just this Area, which I am going to recheck it would be N.Ky, S.W. Ohio and S.E. Indiana.

I will make the correction if this is nationwide and not area specific and try to find a link asap to the CDC stats after a meeting concerning this this morning.

[BeHereNow]

35. What area would that be? Any news links to your claim?

In advance, thank you for providing more information.
BHN

[LaurenG]

52. I posted an article from another city above..

The information I have came from a teleconference yesterday, it was relayed to me by one of the doctors in our group.

[LaurenG]

62. UPDATE to Clarify information:

Nationwide Out of the first 41 deaths reported,6 were healthy Pregnant women. I apologize for the error.

[xchrom]

20. ...

:crazy:

getting the vaccine is FAR less painful than listening to the antivaccine -- and may i say anti-vaccine = anti-woman and anti-child -- crowd and their superstitious hysteria.

[dugaresa]

21. two of my great aunts died while pregnant of the 1918 flu

one went into premature labor and was buried with her infant, the other was buried still carrying her unborn child.

The young and healthy were the ones most affected by that virus and it could be the same for this one.

A pregnancy stresses the body, don't need the added stress of a flu virus to hurt either the mother or unborn child.

[AngryAmish]

25. Mrs AA is pregnant as we speak

Quite a dilemma - an as of yet fully tested vaccine v. known danger from H1N1. I can't wait for the test results (but I must).

[BeHereNow]

29. Here is some ammo to justify your thread-

http://www.augustforecast.com/2009/07/28/swine-flu-pigs-to-fly-soon/

No one talks about the untested Anthrax vaccine our troops were FORCED to ingest and
the documented results of violence, severe health deterioration et al...

Down the memory hole, as the link I provided will soon be.

One of the changes on DU I have been MOST disturbed by, is
the fact that VERY few actually bother to READ links, before making
a smart-assed keyboard worrier reply.

Don't be one of those, read the link I just gave you.

BHN

[4lbs]

31. Did that Anthrax vaccine cause a thousand deaths per year?

Anthrax kills a thousand people per year, mostly in poor countries.

[BeHereNow]

32. Did you READ the link I posted?

I sincerely don't think so.
You might want to read a new post in LBN by Purveyor on the status of the vaccine.

BHN

[4lbs]

40. Yes, I read the link, but I was responding to your commentary after it about the Anthrax vaccine.

Yes, the anthrax vaccine did cause a few problems.

But did it kill a thousand people? Nope.

A thousand people die from anthrax each year.

I'm sure people in areas that have anthrax would be willing to take the vaccine and deal with the risks, instead of facing almost certain death from anthrax.

[BeHereNow]

41. Again, where is your link to back your claim?

Here's mine:
http://www.answers.com/topic/anthrax

BHN

[BeHereNow]

43. What is your commentary on the link, now that you have read it?

Instead of returning to your undocumented claim about anthrax killing thousands every year,
I'd like to hear what you think about the information I posted in the link.

BHN

[BeHereNow]

38. Crickets...N/T

bhn

[BeHereNow]

42. Link please-

I posted one down-thread for you on the matter.
BHN

[KoKo]

36. "Acci­den­tally snuffing a few inno­cents is accept­able if it leads to saving lives of thou­sands"

more from the article:

This is a for­mula for health dis­aster, but when it comes to the bottom line profit of Big Pharma, who stand to gain bil­lions from vac­cine sales, a few casu­al­ties are accept­able as long as the greater good is being served.

This is the same fuzzy logic pop­u­lar­ized by the TV series 24: Acci­den­tally snuffing a few inno­cents is accept­able if it leads to the saving of thou­sands more lives. Of course, the latter is only a pos­si­bility and no other options are offered. Somehow, star Jack Bauer always comes through to save the day, but the viewer is left agi­tated and frustrated.

[BeHereNow]

37. I'd rather fight the Triffids than get the vaccine...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8B_NcamuKQ
BHN

[BeHereNow]

44. Yes indeed, I see you actually read it! YAY! Wish more commentators on the topic would!

I have only counted TWO DUERs who have actually READ the entire article
from the link...
THANK YOU!
:yourock: Koko...

But then everybody already knows that...
BHN

[Devil_Fish]

39. great read, thanks for the link. NT

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. I've read it; it's wrong

On 28th July, it claimed "only 311 deaths" worldwide. Yet, the day before, the WHO reported 816 deaths: http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_07_27/en/index.html

It then claims:

Baxter Labs, a major vaccine maker, fortuitously filed a patent for their H1N1 vaccine (see page 4 of application) on August 28, 2008. That’s right, 2008, months before the first known outbreak!

Except that, if you fallow that link and read it, it turns out the patent is for a generalised flu vaccine manufacture process, and page 4 just lists H1N1 (remember, H1N1 does not mean just the strain that appears in 2009 - not surprising, given the numbers '1' and '1') among many possible strains:



So, no, your link justifies nothing. It's just an anonymous opinion, with out-of-date or misleading information.

[LaurenG]

57. Here are two press releases from the CDC -

http://www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2009/r090729b.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/media/transcripts/2009/t090729b.htm


CDC Stops Official count of US Swine Flu deaths - I think this is weird.
http://mystateline.com/content/fulltext/?cid=85852


Edit: I meant to post this to the op

[muriel_volestrangler]

59. I think that last report got it a little wrong - total cases no longer tracked, but deaths are

From the CDC website:

July 24, 2009 is the last day that CDC is providing individual confirmed and probable cases of novel H1N1 influenza. CDC will report the total number of hospitalizations and deaths each week, and continue to use its traditional surveillance systems to track the progress of the novel H1N1 flu outbreak. For more information about CDC’s novel H1N1 influenza surveillance system, see Questions & Answers About CDC's Novel H1N1 Influenza Surveillance.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm

Why has CDC stopped reporting confirmed and probable novel H1N1 flu cases?

Because only a small proportion of persons with respiratory illness are tested for novel H1N1, at this time, confirmed and probable case counts represent a significant underestimation of the true number of novel H1N1 flu cases in the U.S., so the true benefit of reporting these numbers to track the course of the epidemic is questionable. In addition, because of the extensive spread of novel H1N1 flu within the United States, it has become extremely resource-intensive for states to count individual cases.

What monitoring system will CDC use to replace counting confirmed and probable novel H1N1 flu cases?

Instead of reporting confirmed and probable novel H1N1 flu cases, CDC has transitioned to using its traditional flu surveillance systems to track the progress of both the novel H1N1 flu pandemic and seasonal influenza. These systems work to determine when and where flu activity is occurring, track flu-related illness, determine what flu viruses are circulating, detect changes in flu viruses and measure the impact of flu on hospitalizations and deaths in the U.S.
...
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/reportingqa.htm