Venezuela: 'Freedom of expression must be limited'

[Bacchus39]

Source: AP


CARACAS, Venezuela – Venezuela's top prosecutor insisted Thursday that freedom of expression in Venezuela "must be limited," and proposed legislation that would slap additional restrictions on the country's news media.

The new law would punish the owners of radio stations, television channels and newspapers that have attempted to "cause panic" and "disturb social peace," Attorney General Luisa Ortega said.

It also would punish those media owners who "manipulate the news with the purpose of transmitting a false perception of the facts."

"Freedom of expression must be limited," Ortega said.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090730/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_news_media

[bitchkitty]

1. Eeeeeeek! n/t

[bemildred]

28. Indeed.

More useless babble.

[dorkulon]

33. Yes. It must be limited.

:wtf:

[bemildred]

36. I have no idea what you mean.

If you want to elaborate your views I will try to respond in kind.

[sharesunited]

2. You need to be able to do battle with words in the arena of political speech.

Rebut lies and make fun of liars, but silencing them is out of bounds.

Slander and libel are the tort actions which deal with demonstrable injury resulting from malicious untruths.

[Orsino]

57. ...because the alternative, eventually, is bullets 'n' bombs. n/t

[Zorra]

3. "manipulate the news with the purpose of transmitting a false perception of the facts"

Now there's a big can of worms for ya.

[IDFbunny]

4. "manipulate the news with the purpose of transmitting a false perception of the facts."

ALL media do that. It's just a matter of one's point of view. Those POVs just need to be managed better by big brother.

[Bacchus39]

5. I wonder how the government media is going to comply, wait...nevermind

n/t

[endarkenment]

6. So, for example, openly supporting a coup would be prohibited?

Wow. I'm shocked. That could never happen here.

[Bacchus39]

9. how about prohibiting reporting on an earthquake??

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/05/21/venezuela-stop-harassing-tv-station

In response to Globovisión's coverage of a May 4, 2009 earthquake, the National Telecommunications Commission (CONATEL) has opened an investigation into the station, citing quake coverage that "could generate alarm, fear, anxiety or panic in the population." Referring to the earthquake in a May 10 television and radio address, President Hugo Chávez publicly accused the private media of "inciting hate - even war," and warned them "not to make a mistake" because "they are playing with fire."

[SOS]

78. Venezuela ranks higher than US allies in press freedom

From the 2008 Reporters Without Borders analysis:

RWB ranked 173 countries in 2008.

The nation with the greatest press freedom is Iceland at #1

#41 USA
#113 Venzuela
#120 Georgia
#127 Colombia
#161 Saudi Arabia

Apparently lack of press freedom is of no concern when there's money to be made by American oil companies and defense contractors.

http://www.rsf.org/en-classement794-2008.html

[Truth Talks]

7. We need some of that here in the U.S.!

Hugo Chavez is my hero. Of course, I've never suggested he's perfect, and this could be an example of a Chavez blunder. But let's take a closer look.

First, the corporate media never give Chavez a break. They twist everything around to make it look worse than it is. (I have so much more respect for Yahoo News now that Yahoo has merged with Microsoft - NOT.)

Second: How DO you tame the corporate media? Right now I'm thinking of an education reporter who misrepresented the facts and slimed teachers, effectively libeling me and my profession. The SOB did real damage and should have been held accountable. But how?

Free speech pretty much gives him the right to say whatever he wants, even if it's a lie, right?

We have to draw the line somewhere. Deregulation would be a good beginning. But I'm also a fierce believer in accountability.

So if there was a revolution, and I was installed dictator, life would be very nasty for media whores. For example, I'd have Rush Limbaugh sentenced to prison for life for screwing up a generation's collective mind and advancing corporate interests. (Actually, I'd probably have the bastard executed.)

How could I legally justify such a punishment? I probably couldn't - at least not without rewriting (as in reforming) the law. But I know it needs to be done.

Similarly, it isn't hard to imagine right-wing media whores - doubtless supported by the U.S. in one way or another - trying to undermine Chavez. So my gut reaction is to applaud Chavez for sticking it to them.

Let's also consider the timing. Obama is sending more troops to Colombia, which is in turn sending U.S.-trained troops to Afghanistan. We're also expanding a U.S. military base in Colombia. Colombia's right-wing government is claiming Venezuela gave rocket launchers to "terrorists" (FARC rebels). THen there's that little military coup in Honduras.

Obama is clearly ramping up Corporate America's war with Venezuela, and the corporate media are behind Obama all the way.

In this context, I wish Chavez would come to the U.S. and wage war against OUR media - the Washington Post, New York Times, Seattle Times, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Antrax Coulter and on and on. If they're so eager to help the government limit OUR freedom of speech (along with our civil liberties, Iraqis' lives, etc.) then I have no problem limiting THEIR speech.

Fuck them.

Oh, and by the way - Viva Chavez!

[Seldona]

12. We need government control of the media?

How do you think the 'news' got to the point it is today? Remember the wanna be dictator, *Bush? He would heartily agree with you.

Let's have channel after channel of Fox News! Yea!

:eyes:

[movonne]

13. I agree...

[Truth Talks]

30. What's changed?

Sohow has the corporate media changed under Obama?

[bitchkitty]

The news got to where it was today

because they have a corporate monopoly. It used to be that we hear what our masters want us to hear! Of course the Internet changed that, thank God!

News stations that routinely lie to the public, like most of Venezuela's, should be shut down IMO. That should definitely be a law - they have to tell the truth. Or be muzzled.

[chrisa]

43. You do see the problem with that, don't you?

A dominant, power grabbing party would just proclaim that any news source critical of them is lying, and have them shut down. It's easier than you think when you have other news sources willing to lie for you.

[Mudoria]

14. You need better tastes in heroes..

[cali]

15. no thank you. and having politicians as heros is about as fucking moronic as it gets.

interesting that you'd even think about being dictator for life. glad that you'll never have the opportunity.

[Truth Talks]

32. Chavez is no politician.

Chavez can more correctly be described as a visionary, a rare example of an activist who pulls himself up into the driver's seat. Obama is the one who's imitating George W. Bush; THAT's an example of a politician.

[subsuelo]

38. my friend

it seems Americans have gone so long without a real leader they no longer know what one looks like or acts like

[Ter]

48. You're right, politicians believe in freedom and democracy

[cali]

49. oh for the love of reason. stop genuflecting to St. Hugo for a second, wipe

the sycophantic drool off your chin, and THINK. Of course he's a politician. He's in elective office. That, my friend, is what is known as a FACT. Saying that he's a visionary is an OPINION. Are you capable of learning to distinguish between the two?

Your post is so stupidly pathetic, it's stunning. Hopeless, really in it's illustration of a complete lack of critical thinking.

[Truth Talks]

52. Funny...

You wrote, "Your post is so stupidly pathetic, it's stunning. Hopeless, really in it's illustration of a complete lack of critical thinking."

Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking about your posts!

I stand by my words; Hugo Chavez IS a visionary. You do know what a visionary is, don't you? Let me give you a few clues.

Hugo Chavez would like to liberate Latin America from the U.S. yoke. To that end, he has created a number of organizations that are more or less Latin American equivalents of more sinister organizations promoted by Corporate America. Rather than suck up to corrupt corporations, like George W. Bush adn Obama, Chavez holds them accountable; he even stood up to Exxon. He's reached out to countries around the world, but especially in Latin America.

Yes, Hugo Chavez is a visionary. If you want to define "politician" as any person who holds elected office, then Chavez is both a visionary and a politician. However, I have a slightly different definition of politican - though I won't waste time explaining it to you right now. I suspect your brain can only process a couple things at a time.

[cali]

70. One more time. Asserting that Hugo Chavez is a visionary is not a fact, dearest.

It's what's known as an opinion- yours in this case. Stating that he's a politician is a FACT. Period.

I suspect your brain, sweetheart, can't process anything. Sad.

[bitchkitty]

65. That is very cynical.

It may be an opinion, but an opinion based on his actions, and in my case, an opinion based also on the extraordinary effort by the corporate news monopoly to paint him as a villain, a tyrant, anything other than what he is - a very popular, democratically elected leader who walks the walk.

Yea, Hugo is a visionary. So am I, in my limited little way.

Nothing wrong with having heroes.

[cali]

71. Actually, it's an opinion based on an interpretation of his actions.

[twitomy]

19. I'm sure Stalin is a hero of yours too...

Free speech for me, but none for thee....

[proteus_lives]

20. NONE MAY QUESTION OUR DEAR LEADER!

Are going to run the nearest Venezuelan embassy and "denounce" us?

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. Mole nt

[dorkulon]

34. I don't think "deregulation" means what you think it means. /nt

[chrisa]

42. Wrong.

"Free speech pretty much gives him the right to say whatever he wants, even if it's a lie, right?"

No, that's called libel, and you can't do that here.

"Similarly, it isn't hard to imagine right-wing media whores - doubtless supported by the U.S. in one way or another - trying to undermine Chavez. So my gut reaction is to applaud Chavez for sticking it to them."

Typical Chavez-worship bs. Notice how they always inject how America must be causing Chavez to act how he is.

"In this context, I wish Chavez would come to the U.S. and wage war against OUR media - the Washington Post, New York Times, Seattle Times, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Antrax Coulter and on and on. If they're so eager to help the government limit OUR freedom of speech (along with our civil liberties, Iraqis' lives, etc.) then I have no problem limiting THEIR speech."

That is Fascist thinking. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

[Old Hob]

47. We have plenty enough already actually. There's lots of things I can't say that I would love to say.

[Titanothere]

55. Please move to Venezuela

We don't need bloodthirsty revolutionaries here.

[Regret My New Name]

58. Having fun?

[slackmaster]

67. Please get out of my Democratic Party

We don't need that kind of crap being associated with us.

[Endangered Specie]

79. They have the birthers, we have the Chavez freaks...

if only both sides could get rid of the nuts and get down to fixing this country.

[imdjh]

8. Paging a certain Italian sports car! Paging a certain Italian sports car! nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. Everyone knows the two most difficult languages to translate are

Spanish and Farsi.

They're practically IMPOSSIBLE to get correct. Wait for her - she'll tell you.

[Throd]

61. The Bat signal must be down today

[DumpDavisHogg]

10. Since the Venezuelan AG probably didn't say it in English...

I wouldn't be surprised if the AP translated her words wrong.

Just sayin'.

[Dreamer Tatum]

23. Spanish and Farsi: very challenging languages to translate

:eyes:

[SkyDaddy7]

11. Venezuela is going downhill fast!!

Censorship is censorship...I find it odd that people here at "Democratic" Underground would support this...But they do? :shrug:

[NYC Democrat]

24. some people here Worship Hugo as if was a god and believe (or rationalize) that he can do no wrong.

[Dreamer Tatum]

25. It's worse than that

They alter their values and beliefs to cast his demagoguery in a positive, desirable light.

[SkyDaddy7]

50. Sorry to say...

but I agree!!!

[Truth Talks]

29. Faster than the U.S.?

It would be fun to see the U.S. and Venezuela in a race to the ground. But it would be even cooler if Venezuela was still standing tall after the U.S. was reduced to a corporate slave economy.

[SkyDaddy7]

51. WOW!?!?

I actually love the USA...You obviously do not. The USA is far from perfect but instead of wishing for its total failure I will invest my time trying to change it. Chavez wants total power so that only he can decide what happens. SCARY! You can have Venezuela!

[IDFbunny]

64. The contempt for the freedom of speech

bowls me over.

[roakes10190]

16. limit on free speech

This is the same kind of limit on free speech we have here in US: You can't cry fire in a crowded theater.

[cali]

17. uh, no, it's really not. political speech in this country is the most highly protected form

of speech.

[RedCloud]

27. Kent State? Jackson State? Orangeburg massacre ring any bells for you?

[Posteritatis]

63. How about this site? (nt)

[Recursion]

18. That was a phrase used in a court case that allowed police to jail war protestors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater

Note that Schenck has been overturned.

[RedCloud]

26. Lest we forget that media plotted a coup! Stop this yellow journalism now.

The general situation is this: In April of 2002, there was a two-day, illegal coup carried out against Venezuela's electoral government, which involved the kidnapping and jailing of President Hugo Chavez. There were four major media outlets, along with others, who actively aided and abetted this coup (more later). In the intervening five years, none of them were closed, nor were any of their journalists incarcerated. Rather, the Chavez administration met with them, not to change their editorial slant, but to reach agreements preventing a repeat of such anti-democratic measure and the hyperbolic misrepresentation of facts, and also to discourage such continued infractions as the airing of pornography and cigarette commercials.

Another important fact is that the heads of the media-monopoly in Venezuela, including Marcel Granier -owner of RCTV, also participated in the economic sabotage that occurred between 2002-2003. Yet, no one went to prison for endangering the country's social and economic stability.

What is truly amazing is that it has taken five years for the Chavez administration to take action in any way against media that helped carry out this coup. Certainly, if the same thing happened in the United States, it wouldn't be tolerated. Just ask Aaron Burr or Timothy McVeigh what happens when folks plot against the existing, elected government. The fact is.you don't get away with it, you get punished, and pretty severely. Getting their broadcasting licenses renewed would be the least of their problems.


http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2416

[Regret My New Name]

59. Never forget 9/11.... WIRETAP! INVADE! BOMB!

[Bacchus39]

31. will these restrictions apply to Chavez? He exercises free speech quite expansively

his threat to close the border with Colombia has caused quite a PANIC in the border region with merchants and residents. will he violate his own rules?

[Truth Talks]

37. Oh, the irony...

No one would like to silence Chavez more than the anti-Chavistas who have carried their banner George W. Bush to Obama. Your devotion to free speech is truly inspirational.

[Bacchus39]

39. as is your devotion to Hugo the fascist clown n/t

s

[Joanne98]

35. The AP is always lying about Venezuela. He probably said something else.

[Dreamer Tatum]

44. Then how come he doesn't say so?

Just curious...you don't think Chavez has propagandists in the US?

Besides yourself and Eferrari, that is.

[Endangered Specie]

81. The Guardian could come out with an article criticizing chavez...

and the Chavez fans would come out the woodwork and proclaim the Guardian to be a right-wing fascist US imperialist owned propaganda machine.

[anonymous171]

40. Chavez is entering Stalin territory here. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Hmmm not good, if you cannot fight the media

in an equal footing, you have lost the war.

Oh and those defending this... see Hitler, see Stalin, Chinese Media...

Yep, ours is controlled, but NOT by the state... there is a difference.

[Threedifferentones]

53. Not as big a difference as I would like, however,

Those who control the media and other large industries also have a disproportionate influence over our government. Still, I have always found it odd how hard a time Chavez's worshipers here on DU have grasping that the enemy of my enemy is NOT always my friend.

[JonQ]

45. And yet people will still defend chavez,

he's only doing the will of the people, keeping out those evil imperialist Americans, who just want to take over Venezuelas resources for their own benefit, and would crush the rights and freedoms of the people to do so, unlike Chavez. Snicker.

Imagine Bush saying we need to curb any free speech that may "disturb social peace", now defend him for making that statement. Can't do it right? Good. Now apply that same logic to Chavez. When looked at objectively it's almost like he's a dictator. Even though he hates america he might also be a bad guy.

Scary isn't it?

[bemildred]

46. Being incoherent won't get you far.

At least use the :sarcasm: smiley.

[JonQ]

60. Perfectly coherent

People on here actually subscribe to all the beliefs I mentioned, and will defend Chavez despite pretty much anything he does.

[bemildred]

66. Indeed, an awesome display of rhetorical precision.

Forgive me for butting in.

[JonQ]

68. Oh dear, you're one aren't you?

Forgive me. Saint Chavez did this for the good of the people. If he doesn't get in their and exploit and oppress them first, some evil western nation will! He's saving these poor people from being abused by someone with a slightly different skin tone and accent than they have.

[bemildred]

69. Forgive you for projecting a lot?

Do you consider anyone that might disagree with you a loon? Do you think that says something about them, or about you?

[JonQ]

72. Not everyone who disagrees with me is a loon

but some certainly are.

Those who disagree with me on tax rates are not, and may have valid points worth discussing. Or the death penalty, or abortion even. Or perhaps even the war in Iraq or guns.

But, for instance those that argue with me on the whole world being round thing, are. Or those that think Chavez is a great leader merely because he opposes the US, even though he does things they would go in to apoplexy over if our politicians (especially our republican politicians) ever even presented as a possibility. Those people are definitely loons.

[bemildred]

75. What about Ralph Nader? And Israel? Vaccines?

If one disagrees with you about Chavez for some other reason, not just because he opposes the US, is that OK, not loonlike? Or are you omnipotent about those things too? I'm just trying to figure out where the boundaries are so I won't get in trouble again.

I'll be frank, since we spent this much time, I don't worship Chavez, he looks like an ordinary populist sort of politician, far from perfect, but not something I really need to get worked up about either. You can find a lot worse: Ahmadinejad, Mugabe, Bush/Cheney, Pinochet, that moron that ran Serbia. He comes pretty low on my list of bad politicians. I don't really think he needs me to defend him, but I'm not willing to participate in the regular two-minutes of hate addressed to him either.

[JonQ]

76. Oh don't worry, you weren't in trouble

just mistaken.

Chavez isn't a great guy, when he makes mistakes he deserves to be called out on them. I try not to criticize him for trivial things, but this isn't trivial. It does annoy me when people defend him merely because he is the "anti-bush". He can oppose bush and still be a terrible person.

[Regret My New Name]

73. I don't think Chavez has any desire to exploit or oppress the people of Venezuela.

Basically, he's not going to be a South American Saddam or the next Hitler... I think he does things because he thinks it's what is best for the people of Venezuela. Which maybe it is and maybe it isn't... I don't know, I don't live there. That being said, I don't think he's much different than most other politicians in the world. He wants to have the power and he uses questionable tactics and methods sometimes. To me, it seems he -and his supporters- use the coup attempt much like Bush and the republicans used 9/11...

Anyway, point is that I don't think he's evil, but I also think he's far from being some benevolent leader who does no bad.

[JonQ]

77. I think it's pretty obvious he's in it for his own benefit

same as castro and a great many other leaders riding the anti-american imperialist bandwagon.

He uses us a boogey man to stay in power and obtain more than a little wealth for him and his followers.

[UTUSN]

54. K&R #1, until the Huguito Brigade swamps the thread with UnRekkks!1 n/t

[killbotfactory]

56. How ominous!

And short on details...

That's unusual.

[Posteritatis]

62. Now to see how many DUers decide the First Amendment's a bad thing... (nt)

[Forkboy]

82. I didn't realize they had one.

[ohio2007]

84. "Rule by Decree" cleared up that issue.

They do have the right to inform on their neighbor for talking treason behind closed doors

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

74. Surely not the Chavez regime.

[Endangered Specie]

80. ... and people wonder why Venezuela is suffering a brain drain

[ohio2007]

83. from the "Ministry of Truth" : People must not hear how bad things are going to get

Viva Mugabe and the brain drained minions of Kim Jong Ill

Chavez pulls plug on broadcasters, prompting outrage

Thousands of demonstrators gathered around the offices of 34 broadcasters that were taken off the air in Venezuela after President Hugo Chavez argued they abused free speech. Protesters railed against what they described as censorship, denouncing Chavez's leftist government as a "dictatorship" in chants.

Earlier crowds gathered in front of the national telecommunications regulator Conatel, which announced the closures.

snip

"It is not that we have shut some radio stations, we are implementing the law. We have put them back in the hands of the people and not the bourgeoisie," Chavez said in a televised address on Saturday. Cabello said the closures were due to the stations' failures to meet legal operating requirements. The government has warned another 200 stations may face the same fate.


......
Radio is an important medium in Venezuela and News and Communications Minister Blanca Eekhout has charged there is an "international media campaign against the Venezuelan revolution," which she said made it necessary to step up media regulation.

"If media crimes cannot be prosecuted we will all be completely vulnerable," she said. Journalist Vladimir Villegas, a former director at VTV state television, was troubled by the shutdowns.

"I think that you can carry out social transformation respecting diversity without having to silence your critics," he argued.




http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.149296c44d108cdbd87b3d2fb7b626d1.171&show_article=1&catnum=0

Just as long as they don't parrot that Iranian "Death to dictators" chant they will not be watched closely when Rule By Decree ends and the cleansing begins.

Hugo's system works
.... as long as they have the bourgeoisie around to pay for it... ;)