U.S. military accused of atrocities against Iraqi gays

[kpete]

Source: Washington Blade



U.S. military accused of atrocities against Iraqi gays
Refugee tells stunned audience that soldiers detained, executed gay civilians

By CHRIS JOHNSON & LOU CHIBBARO JR., Washington Blade
Jul 29 2009, 1:21 PM |

A fundraising event to benefit an LGBT community center in Lebanon last week took a surprise turn when stunned audience members were shown graphic photographs of beheaded corpses and images purportedly depicting U.S. soldiers preparing to execute gay Iraqis.

Two gay Iraqi refugees, who declined to use their real names, delivered a presentation at the Human Rights Campaign headquarters July 24 in which they detailed alleged abuses of fellow gay Iraqis while calling on their audience to donate funds to Helem, a Lebanon-based center that works to address the plight of LGBT people in the Middle East.

One of the Iraqis, who goes by the name “Hussam,” showed the audience of about 80 people gruesome images, including shots allegedly of a beheaded man who was gay and another of the victim’s twin brother grieving over the severed head.

While asserting that anti-gay violence in Iraq is often committed by Iraqis, Hussam also said U.S. service members were involved in anti-gay hostility.

Read more: http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=26487

[TheWraith]

1. Anonymous guys show dubious photos. News at 11.

Sorry, but you need to offer proof if you're going to make a claim like this.

[Swagman]

2. true..we need direct evidence when the US is accused..it's only has to be

anecdotal when we want to blast a tens of thousands of others to death ( WMD anyone?)

[Divine Discontent]

14. exactly - so many were more than happy to believe Dumbya's promises that we were fighting a holy &

just war based on their propaganda, but, provide a story with people from within the country saying the following ---

Asked which groups are most responsible for anti-gay persecution and killings, Hussam said, “You can’t easily point a finger. We have militias, religious groups, criminal groups, hate groups,” he said. Members of each of these groups have targeted gay Iraqis, according to Hussam.



--- and it's called fabrication or outright lies!

[Raster]

6. And of course when there's more than just anecdotal evidence, we'll get right on

bringing those responsible to justice!
:rofl:

[AntiFascist]

3. Is this what happens when...

you recruit white supremecists and Nazis into the military? Yet they want to kick out all of the gays....it's starting to make sense.

[Stumbler]

5. Let's not forget

Many units of Our military are filled with christian extremists, who are every bit as dangerous to gays and other non-christians as are the dreaded 'islamofascists.'

[bdab1973]

7. Whatever...

While I have run into a few Bible-thumpers in my 17 years in uniform, I cringe at your quote that states military units are "filled" with "extremists". The vast majority of those I have served with are NOT "extremists" and most weren't even practicing Christians.

[Stumbler]

10. I'll admit

My quote can be viewed as painting the military with a broad brush. But there is plenty of evidence that people within our military, from Privates to Generals, who are making a concerted effort to 'spread the word of the Bible.' This has been documented to have happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some in our military have been passing out Bibles to civilians, and such actions can be interpreted by those nations as proselytizing. Amy Goodman covered it back in May.

“The Crusade for a Christian Military”: Are US Forces Trying to Convert Afghans to Christianity?
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/6/the_crusade_for_a_christian_military

[bdab1973]

11. If that's the case...

Then why is the military making a concerted effort to clamp down on prayer breakfasts and things like that? Proselytizing was strictly verboten while I was deployed, it is stated in black and white in General Order 1. I have never seen anyone (in uniform) pass out bibles to civilians. I have seen civilian churches send Bibles to troops overseas, but that's not quite the same thing as stating our military is full of Christian extremists. A friend of my mother sent me a number of prayer books, intending for me to hand them out. But I worked with Iraqis on a daily basis, and had it been any other installation on US soil I might given them to others that I know were religious (I'm not overtly religious), but to avoid the "proselytizing" impression, I put them in my desk and took them home with me many months later. I sent the church a thank you note, knowing they were only trying to do what they felt (in their view) was a good thing. Most people in the military would have done exactly the same I did.

I'm sure you can go back and find people of all ranks that have violated the regs and have even used undue command influence to push their religion. But I can also find people that have used the same undue command influence to push other issues near and dear to their hearts as well. For every Bible thumper I have seen in the military, I know ten or twenty others that may be religious, but keep it to themselves.

[Zhade]

18. Any evidence to back up your claims, or are you just making shit up?

NT!

[Strong Atheist]

17. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[bdab1973]

8. That's a half-truth

While it's true that neo-Nazis and the like have probably managed to get into the military, I do know the military will discharge someone if they have been found to belong to an extremist group (or even draw up an Article 32 hearing if evidence is found of any wrongdoing).

[AntiFascist]

13. That's good to know...

but what is concerning are stories about units like this one:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/06/15/neo_nazis_army/

...

I hate Arabs more than anybody, for the simple fact I've served over there and seen how they live," he tells me. "They're just a backward people. Them and the Jews are just disgusting people as far as I'm concerned. Their customs, everything to do with the Middle East, is just repugnant to me."

Because of his tattoos and his racist comments, most of his buddies and his commanding officers were aware of his Nazism. "They all knew in my unit," he says. "They would always kid around and say, 'Hey, you're that skinhead!'" But no one sounded an alarm to higher-ups. "I would volunteer for all the hardest missions, and they were like, 'Let Fogarty go.' They didn't want to get rid of me."

Fogarty left the Army in 2005 with an honorable discharge. He says he was asked to reenlist. He declined. He was sick of the system.

[TankLV]

4. Gee - what a surprise - NOT!

The surprise is that this is finally allowed to see daylite...

Support the troops - RIIIIIIGT!

MY "support" is CONDITIONAL on GOOD BEHAVIOR...

I a PROUD that I do not give AUTOMATIC and BLANKET "support"...

MY support MUST be EARNED!!!

"Heros" my ass...

[bdab1973]

9. Your post is riddled with just as many assumptions as those you supposedly oppose harbor...

First off, the vast majority of those in the military are ordinary people, like you. They aren't extremists, neo-Nazis, or right-wing zealots. They aren't murderers.

Having worked with the Iraqi military directly for a year (and having daily contact with the Iraqi people), I take what any of them say with a grain of salt. For example, one guy told me he wouldn't eat catfish because it "menstruates like a woman". Another Iraqi commander went to the US facility next door and told them that if they didn't give over some of their buildings, he had signed on our US commander to help take them by force (this was obviously not true). The insurgents would manage to lob a 240mm rocket onto our base and do nothing but disturb some dirt, then paste flyers around their part of town saying they killed hundreds of Americans in their failed attack.

From my point of view, I take everything that comes out of an Iraqi's mouth as hearsay, until I see it myself. I have been lied to point blank so many times by those guys it just didn't matter anymore. They'd tell me this or that and after a year of that, I'd simply go "ok, whatever".

Having been in the military for 17 years and knowing so many of those who serve around me, and also having worked with Iraqis for a year, there's no way I'd believe a word this man was saying. Not trying to say he outright lied to create a sensation, but I'm telling you it's much more likely in their culture than in ours that would happen. While I say anything is possible, I seriously doubt our military was weeding out Iraqi gays and executing them. First off, we don't go around and pull Iraqi civilians off to the side an point-blank execute them, gay or not. That's not how things are handled. I think this is yet another story of someone with an agenda, and jumping on the "give the US bad PR" bandwagon. It's a very, very common thing over there...even if they don't dislike Americans, it's seen as a better way to explain something than the actual truth...the US got blamed for a LOT of things that weren't true while I was there in the past year. I can remember being on a mission (I advised their Air Force pilots) and the Iraqi generals kept changing the itinerary so much that we couldn't get the mission done, and their government ministers were PISSED and wanted to know why...their answer was "it was the Americans, they wouldn't let us do what we needed to do". Yes, according to them it wasn't their idiotic planning (or lack of it) that caused the mission to be incomplete, it was the big bad Americans that interfered. Imagine how frustrated WE were that after trying to get them to listen to us (and our thousands of hours of experience), that when it was obvious that ignoring us all day bit them in the ass, they decided to blame us. The gall...but after a while I got numb to it. That happened on a regular basis, and after a year of that, I don't believe a word any Iraqi utters.

[gimama]

16. Thank You for sharing Your Views here

& Welcome HOME.

[bsd13]

12. How the hell

is this breaking "news"? At best this is hearsay and an oped piece. Come on! There's nothing even remotely plausible in this garbage. Let's look at the first couple of paragraphs.

"stunned audience members were shown graphic photographs of beheaded corpses and images purportedly depicting U.S. soldiers preparing to execute gay Iraqis." - If this were true those images would be ALL over the world by now. Everyone would see them, they'd be thrown constantly in our faces. Just like they were with the "torture"/abuse photos of the prisoners.

"Two gay Iraqi refugees, who declined to use their real names" - Translation: We didn't want to be bothered making up names for our fictitious characters. Why? Because then you might actually check the story out instead of reacting with emotion.

"One of the Iraqis, who goes by the name “Hussam,” showed the audience of about 80 people gruesome images, including shots allegedly of a beheaded man who was gay and another of the victim’s twin brother grieving over the severed head." - So he shows people these gruesome images (imagine there being such a thing in a war zone...) and there's a dead, (allegedly) decapitated man who was (allegedly) gay and apparently his twin brother grieving over the decapitated head. Yeah, like that would be a hard photo-op to arrange.

"For example, he said service members displayed signs in front of their barracks with the words “Fuck Off Fags.”" - Again, if such things existed it would be all over the news and being shoved in our faces every 3 seconds.

"He then showed an image of what appeared to be an American soldier standing in front of a small group of four or five kneeling naked men who were chained together. Hussam claimed the men were gay Iraqis and that he possessed images of their execution, which he did not show the audience." - Imagine that. He has photos to back up his story, to bring the whole thing crashing down around the ears of America but he doesn't show them? Really?

This is just a pathetic attempt to generate animosity against the United State's military. If there was anything substantial to this "news" it wouldn't be The Washington Blade breaking it.

[melm00se]

15. quick question

what is the position of muslim extremists on gays (as well as other sex "crimes")?

I don't know but I do know that they behead, stone (settle down, with rocks) and toss off buildings folks for other sexual "perversions":

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_adul1.htm

http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/islam.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6940061.stm

So honestly ask yourself: who is more likely to commit these crimes?