'Swine flu liner' docks in France

[formercia]

Source: BBC



Voyager of the Seas at Villefranche-sur-Mer (31 July 2009)
The Voyager of the Seas had travelled from the Italian city of Naples

A cruise ship carrying dozens of victims of swine flu among its 5,000 passengers and crew has docked in the south of France, officials have said.

Sixty crew members have so far been diagnosed with the H1N1 virus, while 70 of their colleagues were also showing signs of being infected, they added.

--snip--

The ship's 3,600 passengers have been allowed off to visit the town before the boat leaves on Friday night for Marseille, officials say.



Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8178333.stm

---

This is how the Plague was spread in Europe. Ships brought it via infected crew members.

[high density]

1. Yes, by all means go out and visit the town

Great idea!

[formercia]

2. and tell the crew to have a good time too.

What idiots.

Can't spoil their vacation.

[jimlup]

26. Heck Yeah!

:rofl:

I somewhat mixed on this one. Wouldn't it be better to just get the damn flu and get it over with if you aren't in the high risk category? Having the flu sucks but is it worth going hyper-scared about? And what about my brother's point - isn't better to have it now than after it mutates and becomes worse?

[madaboutharry]

3. Visit the town,....

and make sure to visit all the open food and fish markets that the south of France is so well known for!

[tocqueville]

4. before the rants start...

1) the infected crew was diagnosed as ill at the start of the cruise and immediately put to isolation.
2) the "released" passengers were diagnosed symptom free before disembarkment.

just for the record

[bkkyosemite]

5. You can be symptom free and still be contagious....

...is it before or after you actually have/show symptoms?
Doctor_Smally: 1 day before and for one week or for 24 hours after you stop having a fever

http://www.wfsb.com/health/19367736/detail.html

[tocqueville]

20. yes of course

but since the crew was isolated since the very beginning and the passengers didn't develop any symptoms during the week or two they were aboard before getting to harbor, you can reasonably assume that they are not bearers. The French sanitary authorities aren't completely stupid, you know...

[bkkyosemite]

25. No I don't know.

[tocqueville]

27. then read the post about testing below nt

[JonQ]

6. Hmm, when the US started talking about letting HIV positive patients in to the US

People lauded it, criticizing our ignorant, unfair and discriminatory policy of keeping people out for reasons that were not their fault, further demonzing people who were already suffering.

Now people are criticizing letting a boat with a few swine flu patients (that have been quarantined) to stop and disembark it's healthy passengers.

So AIDs, which has killed millions, is not grounds for keeping people out. Swine flu, which has killed hundreds, perhaps thousands, is grounds for keeping people out.

[Occulus]

8. HIV isn't an airborne pathogen

"So AIDs, which has killed millions, is not grounds for keeping people out. Swine flu, which has killed hundreds, perhaps thousands, is grounds for keeping people out."

You don't contract HIV by breathing the air exhaled by someone who is infected. You did know that... right?

[uppityperson]

9. Thank you for being more polite than I was going to be. Educating people is a wonderful talent

seriously, thank you

[JonQ]

11. You don't contract swin flu by breating air

exhaled by healthy passengers, the infected have been quarantined.

Also, a lack of air-borne transmission doesn't seem to have slowed AIDS down, southern africa isn't exactly rejoicing that you can't get AIDS via a sneeze.

Also I've heard rumors that tourists are physically capable of having sex, even while on vacation.

I know, revolutionary stuff, I had assumed they kept it in their pants until they had returned home. But apparently the act of procreation outside your own home is physically possible, if mind-boggling and rare.

[Obama2012]

10. Jesus Christ, AIDS isn't airborne

You get it through sex or tainted blood. That's it. I'm safer with somebody dying from AIDS than somebody with swine flu (and I think swine flu is overhyped).

[JonQ]

12. Not really

swine flu has a very low mortality rate, below 100%. Doesn't seem to be persistent and most people are able to cure themselves. Also it presents itself in ways that are obvious to the eye.

Not being air-borne isn't exactly slowing HIV down.

But are you saying that tourists never have sex or use drugs while on vacation? Because I would dispute that claim.

In addition, even if the odds of contracting AIDS are lower, the results are likely worse. I have heard of many being infect with swine-flu and being just fine, not so with AIDS.

The common cold is likewise air-borne and highly infectious. Would you recommend keeping out everyone with a head cold? I wouldn't, mostly because it's harmless in 99+% cases. Similar to swin-flu.

[Obama2012]

13. It's very easy to not get AIDS

You get it through risky behavior. Don't engage in it, and you won't get it.

I can't believe in 2009, people are still spouting bigoted Reagan-era bullshit about AIDS.

[JonQ]

14. Also don't get raped

or get a bad blood transfusion.

I thought claiming that all AIDS patients "had it coming" because they "engaged in risky behavior" was the Reagan era mantra.

Condoms break, partners lie, hospitals make mistakes. Even if people who had it would voluntarily refrain from all such behavior, not every infected individual is aware they are infected.

If it were as simple as "avoid risky activities" then the disease would have died out almost immediately. Obviously it hasn't, obviously it isn't that easy. But I suppose ignoring the problem is the best solution, as you say, and counting on voluntary changes in human nature to prevent it. Like abstinence only as a solution to teen pregnancy. Works every time.

[Obama2012]

15. Rape and bad blood transfusions are something that can happen

even if we let people with AIDS into the country.

I came up in the era of AIDS. Protected sex and never sharing a needle is something that got drilled into me from a young age. I don't consider saying it's something that can be prevented as blaming the victim.

[JonQ]

16. Yes, but the total number of affected makes a bit of a difference

Even controlling for the overall instances of rape, your chance of being infected against your will in south africa are higher than in the US, which is higher than in a place with a lower AIDS rate. Right? Adding more people with AIDS to a population increases the odds that the disease will be able to spread, that's the way diseases work, they do better the more opportunities they have to spread.

Also, avoiding needles and unprotected sex are just two ways of getting at the same thing: minimizing individual exposure to the virus. Correct? What could minimize overall exposure more (since we can't control human nature) than reducing the number of people with it. Hypothetical: we have no one with AIDS in the US. If we were to start letting people with it in to the country would that increase/decrease/not change the chances of new cases arising within our borders?

[Obama2012]

17. Oh boy

:eyes:

[JonQ]

18. Trust me on this,

I'm right.

Statistics, medical science, and common sense back me.

There are many ways to reduce instances and spread of a disease; increasing the number of infected in any given area is conspicuously absent from that list.

You seem to be arguing that moral failures are the reason for the disease spreading (engaging in risky behaviors) and to an extent that is true. However, we live in a free society in which people are free to engage in those sorts of behaviors (we aren't, for instance, rounding the infected in to camps to stop the spread, nor should we). Education, as tobacco, alcohol, domestic abuse, drunk driving, and so, have so eloquently shown will not eliminate the problem. People will still make bad decisions, even when they know them to be bad decisions. If it were as simple as you think all these problems would be gone. That they aren't proves there is more to it than simply reminding people they are acting like idiots.

[Obama2012]

19. Engaging in risk behaviors isn't a "moral failure", it's a risk behavior

I don't place morality on it, unlike you.

Your whole "scientific" argument falls apart the second you let your slip show by bringing "morals" into it.

Excellent job. I knew you'd show your true face eventually.

As I said, Reagan-era fear mongering is your game.

[JonQ]

21. Very sneaky attempt on your part, but don't worry I won't let you get away with it

I was referencing morals in relation to your argument that falls in line so nicely with the fundamentalists: namely, if people would stop behaving this way they'd stop being punished with this disease.

I never claimed immorality had anything to do with it. And you know that.

Now, if you could use that same wit to explain how increasing the total number of people in this country with AIDS will help us reduce the instances of the disease (the inverse of the logic used to reduce the number of people with swine flu entering a country) I'm all ears.

It seems one kind of logic applies to swine flu (it can spread and is deadly, therefore we should try to control it) than is applied to AIDS (can't possibly spread, is harmless no regulation required at all), that is if anything the exact opposite of what it should be.

[Obama2012]

22. If you want to keep AIDS numbers down, the answer is education

Not banning HIV+ people from entering the US.

Your whole swine flu/AIDS comparision argument is just fear mongering bullshit.

[JonQ]

24. Both I think would be a good idea

Prevent our homegrown cases from spreading via education, and prevent new cases from being introduced with regulations.

For instance, educating people to avoid those who are sneezing, cover their mouths when they do, and wash their hands regularly and so on would reduce, but not eliminate swine flu. And yet you don't advocate only education for that one.

As we've been over before, education cannot solve all problems. History has shown this again and again.

[timeforpeace]

7. That's it. Game over, man. We're all gonna die. Rather, they're all gonna die.

The WHO isn't gonna like this, Yogi.

[tocqueville]

23. on update all released were tested negative

notice tested.

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/3/20090731/tfr-grippe-a-h1n1-alpes-maritimes-paqueb-56633fe.html

[Generator]

28. Da plague da plague, boss

The new love boat....we are so doomed

[madrchsod]

29. bring out the dead! bring out the dead!