Single Payer Gets A Vote

[t0dd]

Source: Daily News

Anthony Weiner is about to be the new hero of the progressive crowd after getting a promise from Nancy Pelosi to debate — and vote — on a single-payer plan to solve health care reform.

Weiner got that promise after he agreed to withdraw an amendment to essentially create Medicare for the whole nation in the Energy and Commerce Committee health care markup session this evening.

The Brooklyn-Queens Rep. looked a little surprised when Chairman Henry Waxman said Pelosi would allow that vote, and made Waxman repeat the deal to be sure it was clear and on the record.

It’s an especially big deal for advocates of a single health care system — who see it as cheaper and simpler than the complicated measure being drawn up — because they have been complaining that they have not even been able to get an airing of their position.

And having the vote of the floor of the House will force members to declare a position, and bring much more attention to the idea.



Update: Weiner, who high-fived Tammy Baldwin after getting the deal, crows in a quick press release:

“It’s a Better Plan and now it’s on Center Stage,” says Weiner

Washington, DC - Congressman Henry Waxman (D-CA), Chairman of the Energy & Commerce Committee announced today that Speaker Nancy Pelosi has pledged to give Single-Payer an up or down vote when healthcare reform is considered before year’s end.

Congressman Anthony Weiner (D-NY), Co-Chair of the Middle Class Caucus and member of the Energy & Commerce Committee who led the effort with Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI); Rep. Mike Doyle (D-PA); Rep. Elliot Engel (D-NY); Rep. Rep. Bobby Rush (D-IL); Rep. Janice Schakowsky (D-IL); and Rep. Peter Welch (D-VT), released the following statement:

“Single-payer is a better plan and now it is on center stage. Americans have a clear choice. Their Member of Congress will have a simpler, less expensive and smarter bill to choose. I am thrilled that the Speaker is giving us that choice.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2009/07/single-payer-gets-a-vote.html

---

Single payer will get center stage. Miracles COULD happen.

[aquart]

1. Only one?

[enlightenment]

2. Good.

Now we'll see who the real obstructionists are.

Fingers crossed . . .

[Mark D.]

22. We KNOW

The 'blue dogs' will bail on that. But we need to keep track of the supposed progressive too. NO DOUBT Sanders and Feingold in the Senate, Kucinich and Conyers in the house, will support this. The question is, who won't, and we have to find out why, if they vote no. From Pelosi to Waxman to Kerry to whoever. DU should find the name of every Senator and Rep who said no, and divide them up.

They'll get 100% GOP and Blue Dogs no, but what will be intriguing is what non-Blue Dog Democrats vote no. Then it's time to have those who are in their districts ask them: 'why'? It's proven to cost less than what we pay now, and it will cover everyone, 100%. It will simplify things incredibly. There's no reason to really be against it based on logic. That's when you have to look at how much they took from the insurance lobbyists.

Lobbying should become 100% illegal. I mean that if a rep from some industry is caught giving a check to a national politician, and if a national politician is caught accepting one, both go to jail. Period. Mandatory minimum. Forget reprimands. It is why our government is wrong in every way, that corporate influence. NONE of it to make it a better place for us, unless we are among the upper management there, or one of the owners, or a stockholder. Nothing else matters. We have to find out who's really working for us.

This, if it gets an up or down vote, without some ridiculous legislation added to it designed to kill it, may be the best test we have. It will show us who is really working for us. And if they are not, we have to vote them out, and put a more liberal and less 'for sale' politician in their place, at the next election. Forget 60 seat majority. That's proven to not be enough. We need a 60 seat majority of REAL LIBERALS. Same for the majority in the House. Blue dogs were only useful with the last administration. We've no use for them now.

[Mark D.]

23. Call Health Care a TAX

A popular theme the right wing (working the 'Private Health Insurance' ponzi-scheme) uses is risk of higher taxes. The (true) conservative estimates are that it would save 1/3 of a trillion a year, to have Single-Payer in place. As Dennis Kucinich pointed out...we pay (2.5 trillion, now) enough to fully fund Single Payer...with zero new taxes...and a surplus. I'm amazed how many converts I've gotten to support single-payer who learned just that. But not all do.

We need 'bumper sticker' sized messages...to beat back those right wingers that prey on the simple with that strategy. How about this? The average family pays...what? 12-14 thousand a year...for combined medical-related costs if covered. That's right. If they have health insurance even they'll pay that much. You want a stimulus? End that 'tax' on them. If they don't have coverage, the hospital takes their house. Right wingers decry tax evasion home seizures.

Use their 'medicine' against them. We're sick and tired of being taxed 14 thousand a year for really lousy coverage. The next time one of them rallies about being 'taxed' to help their fellow man, ESPECIALLY if they are Libertarians. Use this on them. Not just health care, any time they complain, and push for corporate-favorable policies as always. Call them what they are: CORPORATE LIBERALS. The really far right in those groups will really love the next one, as well.

Sick and tired of the corporate Big Brother. Yes. Those scared of a NWO. Scared of the government doing anything at all (who are fine with giving a government 1/2 trillion a year for weapons of mass destruction they frequently use). Sample's of responses to follow. Go to the Freepers cave and let them have it there. Bring it up in discussions, or in responses to blogs. Let them have it. It's all factual, and as usual, they can't win on the facts anyway. Just try it.

1) You corporate liberal. Liberal, liberal, liberal. Scared WalMart will not sell you Twinkies anymore? You little coward!
2) You want a 'nanny state', don't you? You want them to take care of you, just let 'em tax us, with the corruption?
3) I'm sick of being taxed tens of thousands for my health care by private companies. You like paying that tax now?
4) Thomas Jefferson founded this government for us...not corporations. You unpatriotic traitor to the corporations.

They will try to say: "You wanna see tax, wait til government gets its hands on it". Then advise them that in every nation on Earth besides us, with single-payer, each person pays less total cost for their coverage and health care. Then give it right back to them again: So you wanna pay those higher taxes? Well, I'm sick of the government waste of our taxes on the most expensive health care on earth. Single payer will cost me less. Less "health care" tax!!!

Keep giving your money to the health insurance nanny. You're 'all set' now because right now, you have affordable health insurance. You won't care about it until it gets too expensive for YOU and then YOU will have a problem, so at that point, only THEN will it be a problem. Your priorities end at your property line. Neighbor's house flooded - no problem - yours is dry. Oh no! Water starting to rise on your property? NOW, that is a problem, when it wasn't before.

[sabrina 1]

32. Good post. The only thing I would say is

that when I first read your subject line I wasn't sure what you meant. If you had said 'call Healthcare Insurance Premiums' a tax, I would have known right away.

'You are being taxed for up to $12,000 a year right now by private corporations that have the ability to refuse treatment for arbitrary reasons.'

I found out recently that a lot of people do not understand what 'single payer' means. Dems have done a very poor job of explaining it, probably on purpose. Average people are not familiar with shorthand terms like this. It really needs to be explained in a very clear way.

Eg, when I found out that the US spends 17% of our GNP on healthcare, and one third of that doesn't even go to healthcare, it goes to costs/profits for the unnecessary middle guys, while Canada and Britain, eg, spend less than that, around 11% and all of it covers the cost of healthcare, I was surprised. Also, people don't realize that with Single Payer, they will no longer have to pay those premiums and think of the money saved by businesses. Even if some taxes were necessary, it would still cost the consumer and businesses less than what they are spending now.

Thanks for the suggestions on how to handle the obstructionists.

[xxqqqzme]

38. You call it Medicare for ALL!

[Beartracks]

63. "It's your money, you should keep more of it!"

Yes, that's always been my understanding of single-payer: any tax increase (if you specifically experience one) will be LESS THAN the money you save by not having to pay PREMIUMS to private insurance companies.

So... if the GOP's whole argument is along the usual lines of "it's your money, you should keep more of it" -- well, then, let's get single-payer and make that dream come true.

[sabrina 1]

66. Why don't Demcrats make that clear? I mean, even

people I know who are liberals are confused about the whole thing. Kucinich is the only one who ever takes the time to break it down in language ordinary people can understand, but we never see him on television.

I have not heard, eg, a single Dem other than Kucinich emphasize the fact that people will no longer have to pay those premiums, and businesses will not have to cover people's healthcare and some of that money could go to pay raises.

My sister eg, has a very good healtcare plan through her job, but it costs around $25,000 a year between her contribution and her employer. She counts that as part of her salary. But if we had single payer, some of it actually would be part of her salary instead of going to greedy insurance companies.

I really wish Dems would make all this crystal clear to the voters because it is not right now as I've found out since I started talking to people about it. There would be huge support imo, if people really understood what Single Payer really means.

[Beartracks]

73. I just spent some time at the PNHP Web site...

LOTS of great info on single-payer from Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP). This site may be well-worn by many here, but it was new to me. Check out the FAQ; it's a fantastic document:

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php

I’ve summarized below some of the items from the longer document:

Is national health insurance ‘socialized medicine’?
No. Socialized medicine is a system in which doctors and hospitals work for and draw salaries from the government, like in the Veterans Administration and the Armed Services. But in most European countries, and Canada, Australia, and Japan, they have socialized health insurance, not socialized medicine. The government pays for care that is delivered in the private sector. This is similar to how Medicare works in the U.S.

The term “socialized medicine” is often used to conjure up images of government bureaucratic interference in medical care. That does not describe what happens in countries with national health insurance where doctors and patients often have more clinical freedom than they do in the U.S., where private bureaucrats currently attempt to direct care.

Won’t this result in rationing like in Canada?
The U.S. already rations care, because no one is ultimately, publicly accountable for how the system works. Rationing in U.S. health care is based on income: if you can afford care, you get it; if you can’t, you don’t. A recent study by the prestigious Institute of Medicine found that 18,000 Americans die every year because they don’t have health insurance. Many more skip treatments that their insurance company refuses to cover. Such rationing is unnecessary. A number of studies (notably a General Accounting Office report in 1991 and a Congressional Budget Office report in 1993) show that there is more than enough money in our health care system to serve everyone if it were spent wisely.

National health insurance systems are publicly accountable, and ours is not.

Who will run the health care system?
There is a myth that with national health insurance the government will make the medical decisions. But in a publicly financed, universal health care system, medical decisions are left to the patient and doctor, as they should be. The total budget for health care is set through a public, democratic process. Clinical decisions remain a private matter between doctor and patient.

What will be covered?
All medically necessary care would be funded through the single payer, including doctor visits, hospital care, prescriptions, mental health services, nursing home care, rehab, home care, eye care, and dental care.

Won’t this just be another bureaucracy?
The United States has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. Over 31% of every health care dollar goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. Our insurance system is both extremely complex and fragmented. The Medicare program operates with just 3% overhead, compared to 15% to 25% overhead at a typical HMO. Provincial single-payer plans in Canada have an overhead of about 1%.

It is not necessary to have a huge bureaucracy to decide who gets care and who doesn’t when everyone is covered and has the same comprehensive benefits. A national health program could save enough on administration to assure access to care for all Americans, without rationing.

Why not use tax subsidies to help the uninsured buy health insurance?
The major flaw of tax subsidies is that they would be used to help purchase plans in our current fragmented system. The administrative inefficiencies and inequities that characterize our system would be left in place, and we would continue to waste valuable resources that should be going to patient care instead.

Won’t competition be impeded by a universal health care system?
Advocates of the “free market” approach to health care claim that competition will streamline the costs of health care and make it more efficient. What is overlooked is that past competitive activities in health care under a free market system have been wasteful and expensive, and are the major cause of rising costs.



There is TONS more good information on that FAQ, covering other issues, including: whether a “public option” will work in lieu of a full single-payer system (hint: it won't); what will happen to malpractice costs; the effect on research and innovation; the Canadian experience; where undocumented immigrants fit in; well-researched and well-documented refutations of ideological attacks on single-payer health reforms; and more.

[KalicoKitty]

90. Thank you very much, Beartracks, for posting that!

That is very informative!

:yourock:

[Beartracks]

93. Yer welcome. I was happy to find that site.

So many good articles there, too (http://pnhp.org/news).

I like this quote from an article titled "Fix the system with Medicare for all" by Marcia Angell, Jan. 29, 2007:

"The United States is the only advanced country in the world with a health care system based on avoiding sick people."
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2007/january/fix_the_system_with_.php


That always gets me thinking... Why is that? Other functions of our society that are organized to protect life and limb aren’t set up that way. Fire fighters don’t need to check your coverage limits before putting out a blaze or conducting safety inspections. The police don’t have to coordinate your protection with other law enforcement before stopping a robbery in your neighborhood or teaching safety awareness classes in your school. Transportation departments responsible for road and bridge safety don’t leave a couple of shoddy lanes in place for poorer drivers. The army doesn't care whether or not you’ve been covered by citizenship for the prior six months if they have to defend your home against invasion.

Yet our health care system is tasked with protecting life and limb, too. Your personal health and welfare need not only be protected from external forces like fire, potholes, and criminal activity, but also from internal forces like heart disease, diabetes, and arthritis. The greater good is served by keeping the whole of the populace healthy, just as the greater good is served by fighting crime, keeping infrastructure in good repair, and keeping the country safe.

[Maestro]

95. Great link.

I did not know about it either.

[sabrina 1]

102. That is an excellent site, thank you

I am going to read all of it later as people are really beginning to ask a lot of questions. Nothing else makes any sense. I don't know why there is even a question about it or why the Dems have not been pushing hard to get it through. There was never a better time than after eight years of Republican rule and the public's anger at the greed that collapsed the economy. I am so disappointed in Dems who never seem to miss a chance to drop the ball.

Thank you so much for this post Beartracks. :applause:

[lildreamer316]

98. HERE is what we need to be hammering: "think of the money saved by businesses" !!

Fire with fire. I don't understand the basic idea of why a Republican would NOT be for Single-Payer/Medicare for All...it would single-handedly save hundreds of thousands of SMALL BUSINESSES. And, guess what...even some large ones!

I thought the GOP was all about small business owners?? Did they suddenly abandon them?

[sabrina 1]

103. Yes, but maybe it's because the majority of them don't realize

this. Even Democrats are believing the lies.

If people really knew what Single Payer would do for them, Republicans and Democrats, unless they are masachists, they would support it. No wonder the Industry spends so much money to keep this information out of the hands of the people. It is evil.

"Think of the money saved by businesses", YES!! Wasn't this the excuse the Blue Dogs gave for not voting for Obama's plan. They said that forcing small businesses to pay for healthcare would put many out of business. Absolutely it would. So, why didn't THEY, if that's their concern, fight for Single Payer. They are such hypocrites.

[mwooldri]

33. I'd rather call it National Insurance. eom.

[grahamhgreen]

41. Important point - Single payer ALSO REDUCES CAR INSURANCE PREMIUMS! Reduces medical liability!

Case in point - my registration AND isurance on my vehicle in Australia in 1992 was $25/year.

[truedelphi]

89. As far as "taxes" - the Fed government spends $ 500 per household EACH Month

To provide us with war. War in Iraq, war in Afghanistan, Homeland Security etc.

This is a $ 167 a month increase since 9/11.

On 9/11 we lost 3,300 citizens - and this justified the all out spending on a new agency, Homeland Security, with little discussion of where the money would come from.

Meanwhile 50 people a day, 1500 a month, 18,000 a year die from lack of insurance. This is an all out, on going catastrophe, and Single Payer Universal Health Care could solve it.

As far as who is to pay, put the cost on the same line of the Fed Budget that covers the Health Insurance for the Guys and Gals in Congress.

[RoccoR5955]

96. You forgot Hinchey in the House.

He has been for single payer for a long time.

[monmouth]

3. I love to watch and appreciate rising stars.....n/t

[stlsaxman]

52. I knew Weiner was the real thing first time i heard him on c-span...

watching him go is the most exciting thing i've seen in years!

:bounce:

[bjobotts]

56. He is inovative.It's what voters wanted all along but I wish he would present it as Medicare for all

[bjobotts]

57. Informed people already know how good Medicare is and others aren't confused by it

[bjobotts]

59. Many people did not know what 'single payer' meant but knew how good Medicare is from relatives.

[bjobotts]

61. Like Oscar Mayer says, "I love me some Weiner".Medicare for all-it's single payer

[Stephanie]

69. Weird story - I volunteered on Schumer 2000 campaign. Weiner was on staff.

We were in the same office day after day where I was answering phones and he was in a back office organizing. The phone system was primitive so often we'd have to run to the back to tell them to pick up the line. Anyway, it was not until election night that I realized Weiner was himself running for Congress. He was so busy working to get Schumer in (over D'Amato - a very worthy cause) that his campaign was so low key I didn't even know it was happening. Until election night, at the party at the hotel. Now I was new to NY politics at that time so that's my excuse, but still. He is not your regular politician egomaniac. He's actually pretty cool.

[bitchkitty]

77. What a great story.

I love reading things like this. It reminds me of Clinton's first run, when he was in the street campaigning almost til the last minute.

[stlsaxman]

78. Either he had his own district sewn up or he realized that no matter if he wins or loses..

D'Amato had to go... he sees the big picture. it's a great story!

[John Q. Citizen]

4. But how can it be getting a vote on the floor? People keep saying there is no political support?

[CLANG]

13. A lot of public support could be drummed up in a month

and constituent pressure could turn the tide. We only need 50 votes!

/CANCEL (WISHFUL THINKING)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

83. 218 votes, in this case.

[CLANG]

104. Good catch!

[girl gone mad]

5. I love this guy.

Please stay away from five diamond hookers and small planes, Mr. Weiner.

[stlsaxman]

53. +1!

[Stephanie]

70. He's got the hottest fiance in politics - Huma Abedin.

I don't think he's going to do anything stupid.

[momdogz]

84. yes!!

:thumbsup: :fistbump: :fistbump:

[MarjorieG]

6. Needs to compare it to Medicare and alongside private, if necessary, but open to all.

[lib_wit_it]

7. This is great, I think. I don't know enough about how things work to understand how

taking out his amendment and getting a vote that's sure to lose at this point is a good thing. Any suggestions for an online lesson in congressional procedures?

[SemperEadem]

11. it puts everyone on the record

and that will be like shooting fish in a barrel in the next elections.

[t0dd]

12. And a lot could happen while Congress is on recess. Maybe some pivotal event..

that completely alters the prospects of single payer..

[lib_wit_it]

14. I want so much to believe it can still happen, but even here at DU it seems that the interest has

died off, presumably because of loss of hope.

[valerief]

94. This is America, the Empire. Only the rich can truly hope. nt

[bkkyosemite]

8. I hope it has more clout and the public really has called and yelled so it can have a chance of

passing.

[Xenotime]

9. Universal healthcare reform will be a progressive turning point in America.

[lib_wit_it]

15. It really would be major! I'm afraid that it stands no chance due to the big bucks and greed of

the insurance companies. And that is so undemocratic.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

28. and we're only decades behind other countries!

awesome. Love this congressman from NY.

[Xenotime]

85. Exactly. That's why we need to become more progressive..

There should be limits on how much companies can earn so they can't be so greedy. And, they will be forced to give up more than they deserve.

[SemperEadem]

10. Rep. Weiner is amazing

NYers are lucky to have him!

[jwirr]

16. Okay, exactly what do numbered bill do we ask our reps to support? nt

[BradXXX]

18. HR 676

I assume this is the bill they are going to vote on.

[KingBob]

45. HR676?

Is this the House bill number?  This is something I want to
track in my state - MS.  The BLUE DOGS are entiretly too
active here.  It still sounds too good to be true that this
will be allowed to the floor to be discussed, much less
debate.  Still hopeful.

Peace & Justice.

[BradXXX]

48. Yes

It is HR 676.

[harun]

80. H.R. stands for House Resolution I believe. It would be a flat out miracle

if we can get an actual vote on H.R. 676. Your reps definitely know what you mean when you ask them about H.R. 676.

[bkkyosemite]

58. HR 676

[Okota]

65. Numbered Bill

HR676

[harmonicon]

17. Fuck Yeah!!

I hope this gets some legs, and then there could be a real debate about healthcare.

[Soylent Brice]

19. .

:kick:

[mbperrin]

20. Yes! Single payer universal coverage is the only way to go!

Please!

[rollingrock]

21. A promise?

when was the last time a Washington politician ever kept a promise? you better have Pelosi put it in writing, preferably in her own blood. then maybe it might mean something. Otherwise, I'd take her words with a grain of salt.

[Lena inRI]

24. Yoohoo! Another Brooklyn Bad-ass advancing single-payer. . .

. . .Representative Anthony Weiner and Senator Bernie Sanders speak so eloquently in their endearing Brooklyn-ese. . .always for the middle-class working stiffs.

GO GET 'EM, ANTHONY AND BERNIE!

:woohoo: :applause: :woohoo: :applause: :woohoo:

[lovuian]

25. She had to do it

if she stopped Health Care she would be out of a job soon

[bevoette]

26. between this and his 'amendment' throwdown...

this guy is my new hero

[zalinda]

27. Well, I'm emailing

my newbie congressman, and telling him to support Weiner, or he can forget my support when the next election comes around.

zalinda

[Stevepol]

29. If it wins in the House, even if it didn't win in the Senate (likely), ..

it would absolutely guarantee a strong public option.

And who knows? Stranger things have happened.

TN now will be auditing its vote thanks to Fly by Night and other fair election advocates, and suddenly at least one state has something like democracy. And I'm sure there were a lot of unpredictable moments in the process that made it possible.

[DUlover2909]

30. Bring it. Let's see who votes how. I WANT SINGLE PAYER!

:toast: :kick: :dem: :thumbsup: :fistbump:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

36. I think we should call it "Medicare for All" that way

they know we mean _not private health insurance

[DUlover2909]

31. What's the House bill number?

edited for none of your damn business!

[t0dd]

34. HR 676. http://www.hr676.org nt

[DUlover2909]

35. Thanks.

:hi:

[kestrel91316]

37. Single payer, NOW. Medicare for all, NOW. We won't shut up, we won't back down,

we are in this fight for the LOOOOONG haul!!!!!

I pray that I see this come to pass for our nation before I die.

[quakerboy]

39. My hope doesnt extend far enought

to believe that this will come anywhere near passing.

On the other hand, this is what I have been wanting. Even if we lose the vote, its recorded. Democrats are fighting for what the people want. And we will know exactly who is standing against the will of the people.

[bobbolink]

40. Oh, to be in Portland tonight with Ed Schultz' townhall meeting!

He's been Single Payer since forever, and he's probably turning summersaults!

Must be an exciting meeting.

Hurrah for those great people in Brooklyn for electing this guy!

[grahamhgreen]

42. Time for Mr President to step up! Yay! One speech on single payer please!

[scentopine]

43. our glorious dem & rep leadership wants this dead...

There are only a few progressive voices in all of congress. A rush to vote before building public support could backfire - what are the options? How do you get the votes? Is Obama going to tell us that single payer is now on the table? As long as he refuses to aggressively fight for single payer and set the facts straight about our "free market" health care, it doesn't have a chance.

Ok Obama - let's hear you say "I support single payer because..." back it up with compelling human stories and lead this to victory.

Or, is it going to be more of the same?

[Hayduke Lives]

44. funny things sometimes happen on the way to the Forum. nt

[slipslidingaway]

46. The CBO needs to score HR 676!!!! knr n/t

[grahamhgreen]

47. +1

[stlsaxman]

54. THAT is key! CBO MUST score Single Payer!

[t0dd]

55. What is the procedure

for that to happen? Should we call and urge them to score it? Haha..

[Seldona]

49. K&R

Greatest news I have heard all day. At least it goes on the record now, even if it fails.

[t0dd]

50. Please check out my other thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6196602&mesg_id=6196602

:toast:

[Iwillnevergiveup]

51. Big K&R

So many of us have worked hard to keep single-payer alive, but during August, we must keep on. I hope these Congress critters plan on having their local office phones covered.

And Barack has demonstrated his ball-playing skills - let's see him pick up this ball and run with it!

HOPE!

[Amos Moses]

60. K&R

[blueclown]

62. This Weiner (legislation) may have some legs.

:kick: :kick:

[demodonkey]

64. K&R for a new hero: Anthony Weiner! Expanded & Improved MEDICARE FOR ALL. HR 676.

Everybody in, nobody out. (Of the fight to get this passed.)

[DesertFlower]

67. i'm beginning to have hope again. nt

[Stephanie]

68. I am now an Anthony Weiner volunteer

I will support him, I will volunteer, I will carry his petitions, I might even throw him a fundraising party.

[Sherman A1]

71. YES!

Time to email my Congressman.

[Sunnyshine]

72. Please support HR 676 - It is essential to solving long-standing inequality in care and cost.

K&R - Let's make America healthier and dramatically boost our economy in the short and long term!

Why do we accept Insurance Co's having power over us to deny and double charge us, so they may profit from our life/death?

Conflicting interests and all that- astounding to see their cold greedy hands squeezing it out of us human beings:
http://boingboing.net/2009/06/06/health-insurers-inve.html

GOP Rep. Murphy:
Yeah and that brings up the point here that with regard to one of our big frustrations with insurance companies is they control the market place, they control what’s done, a lot of times doctors not making the decisions here. And you recognize the frustration.http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/17/gop-rep-health-insurance

Yes, that elephant is trampling over people everywhere and the immorality of selling out to favor and then cover up their dirty schemes is beyond frustration. It is harmful. Stop making deals with the devil. We won't change a thing until we all have Universal Health Care!

[and-justice-for-all]

74. Now get youself some fliers and put feet to pavement!!

and try to attend Town Hall Meetings if you can.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

75. How likely is it to be able to vote out the Blue Dogs without getting in any Repugnicans

... in the next elections?

[DeeDeeNY]

76. K & R

:bounce:

[xchrom]

79. WOOT!!!

:woohoo:

[mother earth]

81. K & R! Gotta love those who fight for single payer!

Kicking this up for WE THE PEOPLE! Single Payer is the only way to go, to do without this would be going against everything this country is about and it is the only thing that gives us real health care reform. Yeah, Jefferson knew back then, educate everyone, if you aren't for single payer you do indeed love the corporate master you are a slave to. Haven't we been screwed enough already?

[BREMPRO]

82. lets hope there is an actual debate on its merits and not a media blackout

I think they know they don't have the votes, so perhaps this is a way to both placate and silence single payer advocates. OR... a way to scare the insurance companies, by considering single payer, into stopping their all out assault on a public option?

[LiberalLovinLug]

86. Very well said

I think you just may be right. On both accounts.

And about the media blackout. The silence is deafening. You'd think it was the medias job to present all the options in an unbiased way for the public to absorb. I have not heard of any breakdown of proposals. I have not heard any real journalism investigations on comparing other countries health care, other than Michael Moore and that's another story. He produced one of the most insightful documentaries on the state of health care in the US, and he seems to be lost in the media blackout as well.

[BREMPRO]

101. Frontline on PBS did a great documentary on the subject too..

that came up with the same general conclusions that MM did- that exposes the high costs and poor result of the current US health care mess, and that ALL the countries profiled (including France, England, Japan and Canada) have single payer systems that are less expensive, have better outcomes, and citizens are happy with. The Frontline piece goes in with the attitude- what can we learn from other countries about how we can reform our system. I haven't heard any discussion of this outstanding documentary in any other forum since. The unfortunate fact is that most of the mainstream corporate media is reliant on the private medical industry for a good portion of their advertising dollars- hence editorial silence.

here's a link to the Frontline program "Sick around the World" you can watch it online if you haven't seen it yet. Pass it on!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

[mvd]

87. Happy to K&R!

:hi:

[lefthandedlefty]

88. Why is giving money to insurance companies ok

and paying taxes a bad thing.I pay way way more to insurance that I do in taxes at least with taxes they might fix a pothole every now and then.Insurance has never given me anything other than a hard time.

[KalicoKitty]

91. Kick & Recommend

:kick:

[tcatt57]

92. Single-Payer are facts meaningless?

There are 35 other countries with working models of health
care systems better than ours, all with cost savings of one to
three dollars per hour . In fact, there are two more working
models in the U.S., The Veterans and Medicare, who both
provide better services, except for after care rehabilitation.
Medicare depends on the after care medical services our
private system has created. These services have serious
problems that are getting worse every year. After care health
service quality has diminished because insurance companies
continue to deny particular procedures or shaved off
particular different processes in different situations every
year, each year. As a result overall quality has been on a
decline in a big way every year since 1985, we have gone from
a pretty decent system in 1985, to a system barely tolerable.
I am focusing on the services provided after an accident or
procedure required to assist in recovery. Unless you are an
ongoing participant or knowledgeable of their need and
importance, you won’t have an idea how bad things have gotten,
perfect for insurance carriers. On the front end, People don’t
realize just how fast their insurance company denies you when
you want service, or cancels you when services are Necessary.
These companies have been shaving and deleting services on the
after care side in a big way every year, because there are the
most unnoticed and affect the fewest people, but damage the
overall system the most. That has not slowed their denials of
services on the front end either but complaints have an impact
when associated with large numbers. The fact is people just
have no idea we are paying much more for much less every year
on both the after care and primary care sides of services.
Communicating these facts on how bad the insurance policy’s
are, and that  often the policy turns out to be worthless even
when you thought you had a Cadillac, you got a Pinto. Those
are cases neither side wants to admit and something town halls
or polls cannot predict or make people aware of, but Facts
just the same. A Living will is something every hospital wants
you to have any time you check in, no matter what you are
going in for. 
Another fact is private insurance, to date, has canceled 7
million policies, people, or cases and then labeled them
either Long Term or Catastrophic. This forces Medicare to
absorb every single one of the most expensive, long term cases
without exception. Once a case is labeled Long Term or
Catastrophic the only option is Medicare. I wonder why private
insurance always makes profit? What a FRAUD, people are stupid
this is a con job, big time.Medicare used to be considered an
inferior policy to private insurance plans, but now is
considered a premium plan. 
Private carriers plans no longer provide, cover, the
equivalent of our Medicare, they have or have curtailed so
much from the private plans Medicare has become a preferred
service even though doctors are paid less, this is a testament
of just how bad things have gotten. The policies being
canceled represent individuals, people, and families, who had
all been working and paying a premium for their insurance
until either illness or accident caused their insurance
carrier to drop them. Once dropped from the private plan they
have only one option left that accepts pre-existing or
catastrophic cases, Medicare.  In order to keep Medicare and
receive any medical services you can no longer work, or
produce taxes, Brilliant! I call it the American Social
Economic Prison, of which, I have been prisoner since
September 13, 1985. Unfortunately, not enough of the 7 million
forced on Disability hate poverty as much as I do, and pushed
for change, until Now! We have built up 7 million who cannot
be fooled by insurance company lies besides the millions
denied services this has caused the Pendulum to swing back
toward the consumer. These idiots who believe the entire GOP
complete lies along with the corrupt democratic key committee
members collecting their million dollar annual bribes who just
ignored people so long they lost track of how many people they
screwed over. Plus Wendell Potter 20 year ex-Cigna executive
found God and testified against the Insurance industry further
substantiating Republican's as bold faced Liars.

[lildreamer316]

97. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[stlsaxman]

99. welcome to DU! hey- we're paragraph friendly here... and you can post more than once...

i'm sure it is a great post you have there but by the third line in my eyes got really tired and i lost my place five or six times. then i gave up...

yeah, i'm a wimp- i know that. using paragraphs makes it easier to read.

[dharmamarx]

100. Nice but that would really require a revolution

The only way I could see single payer happening is if we had a national general strike. Maybe if we spent more time organizing a general strike and less time obsessing over our bought and paid for politicians we'd get somewhere. Ok, now I have to get back to my video game.