Four Reported Dead in Pittsburgh-Area Shooting

[Uzybone]

Source: NYTimes/AP

BRIDGEVILLE, Pa. (AP) -- A Pittsburgh television station says a shooting at a suburban health club has left four people dead, including the shooter.

KDKA's report says the killings were at the L.A. Fitness Center in Bridgeville, a community of about 5,000 residents not far from downtown Pittsburgh and the Pittsburgh International Airport.

Allegheny County police and the medical examiner's office won't confirm that to The Associated Press.

A witness tells the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette newspaper she was in an exercise class when a man came in a back door and started shooting. Ashley Ogordowski says a friend of hers was among the wounded.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/08/04/us/AP-US-Health-Club-Shooting.html?hp

[Blue_Tires]

1. insane ex? jilted lover??

just guessing...

[femmocrat]

5. They don't know yet.

They haven't released the identity of the shooter yet.

[Blue_Tires]

50. they now know it was a guy with lifelong problems with women

who wanted revenge...according to his blog, the resentment had been brewing since he was a teen...

[aquart]

29. Heard a report that a woman said it was her ex-boyfriend.

What bloody nerve these assholes have.

[sharesunited]

2. You know what I think?

It's too easy to get a gun and kill somebody with it.

[JerseygirlCT]

42. +1 nt

[yodermon]

44. +1

yes.

[rd_kent]

51. It is also very easy

to get a knife and stab someone, or get drunk and kill a family with your car, or get a bat and beat someone with it, or......You get my point, right?

[Bill McBlueState]

61. the proper analogy would be

"It is also very easy to get a knife and kill someone, or get drunk and kill a family with your car, or get a bat and kill someone with it..."

For knives and bats, why did you say something less extreme than "kill"?

[moonbatmax]

70. The thing about a gun is...

...it's easier to kill and wound many people quickly, when you can "spray bullets" with it.

Now, you COULD take your car up on the sidewalk and take out a fair number of people quickly, and you wouldn't even have to be drunk to do it! Bats and knives, on the other hand, just don't give you the same kind of rapid fire you can get out of a gun, and you have to get fairly up close and personal to use 'em. All that's beside the point, though.

What really gets me is the thought that access to guns is just fine because other things can be used to kill. Bats, cars, and even most knives are made for purposes other than killing, and it is for those purposes that we accept the risk that someone might abuse them. The primary purpose of a gun IS to kill, and it tends to do the job quite well.

The problem with guns is not simply that they're meant to kill, but that they're so bloody good at it.

[Pavulon]

75. "youtube tatp"

you have the ingredients in your house. that string nets you step by step instructions. It kills and is quite easy to make. London bombing was tatp.

Intent is the problem. Lots of murders happened before gunpowder was invented. Machetes stacked bodies in rwanda..

[Bravo Zulu]

3. A fifth victim has died!

[femmocrat]

4. KDKA reporting 6 dead, including the shooter.

This is so terrible. :cry:

[spag68]

6. Guns

This can't be right,I thought everyone would be safer if everyone had guns.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Missy Vixen]

26. Was that supposed to be funny?

Is rape a victimless crime to you? I can't wait to read your response.

You might want to bear in mind that the large numbers of female DU posters who are victims of rape might not find your comparison quite so funny.

[Pavulon]

30. Nope, lesson in correlation..

not every person who has a gun uses it illegally...Pretty simple. Guess someone missed that.

Not every person with a penis is a rapist, only the asshole criminals.

EDIT: all about a persons CHOICE on how to conduct themselves. However a gun comes in handy if a person is in the process of becoming a victim. Much better than "please stop".

[Missy Vixen]

47. Hey Pavulon,

I'm done with your little word games. You think that rape and being murdered with a firearm are the same because it's a crime? You've lost all hope of making your point.

>not every person who has a gun uses it illegally...Pretty simple. Guess someone missed that.<

It's unfortunate that you miss the fact that those who use illegally tend to kill others, and it happens every day in this country. Nice to know that the women in that exercise class should have been packing. After all, if they'd had a gun, certainly they would have been able to fight back, huh? :sarcasm:

You'll say or do anything to defend your gun fetish. Anything.

>EDIT: all about a persons CHOICE on how to conduct themselves. However a gun comes in handy if a person is in the process of becoming a victim. Much better than "please stop".<

Bullshit. This is all about those who get their hands on a (plentiful and readily available) commodity that you and your little Gungeon friends insist are plenty regulated, but should NEVER have access to a firearm. Interesting they continue to obtain them, huh? Even more interesting that people like you continue to defend it. I'd say that perhaps it's because it's not your loved one in the line of fire, but I don't think you'd give a shit about that, either. To you, it's all about the gun.

In the meantime, I'm bolding this so every woman reading this thread won't miss it.

>However a gun comes in handy if a person is in the process of becoming a victim. Much better than "please stop".<

Oh, and you think that's what women do who are attacked? "Please stop"? Jesus Christ. Rape is a crime of power and control. I'll bet you think most women just lie back and enjoy it, don't you? There's lots of opportunity for any woman to fire a weapon while going up against a man that can be as much as a foot taller and outweigh them by 100 pounds, too. Imagine how fun it will be for her to get shot to death with the weapon that was supposed to save her!

In your overheated fantasies, it's the Wild Wild West, 24x7. You could whip that gun out and defend everyone against every imaginary threat. It's comical to note that when there have been armed people in the vicinity (SEE COLUMBINE, for instance,) they weren't able to get off a shot that would stop what was happening, were they?

[Pavulon]

67. Your post is out of line. And stupid to boot..(call your rep for universal health to do something)

People die every day. Drunk people in cars kill 8 at a clip on the LI expressway. Has no impact on my intake of alcohol. Your entire position is lazy, you advocate ban. Will not work, see dc and chicago. Tried failed, address root cause. Then look at geneva or zurich, or fargo ND. Funny how that works out.

I dont have to say or do shit, the constitution covers that for me. Messing with that document to ban stuff has been generally bad.

"Please stop" VS double tap. That simple, a firearm equalizes a 110 lb woman and 220lb man. The 110lb woman does not have to worry about it being taken if the aggressor is busy bleeding to death.

Funny you mention COLUMBINE, see the police sat and waited, NOW they go in fast to those situations. Tactical change by police was the result of that example. Like if you were sitting on a plane and someone takes over and says they have a bomb, just stay calm. Not going to happen anymore, no one is going to sit on their ass calmly to be flown into a target.

Dont want a gun, dont own one. Your call.

[Missy Vixen]

68. Perhaps you should spend more time on the phone with your rep

I've not only volunteered for the Democratic Party and its candidates for the past 30 years, I've held public office. What else have you done, besides lovingly stroked your gun and posted on DU?

I really don't give a shit about your insistence on your "Constitutionally-protected" speech. Every woman that reads this board knows what you are now, and it's long past time that happened. Maybe I should say some Constitutionally-protected things about guys who insist on carrying, like their penises are small. How's that?

>That simple, a firearm equalizes a 110 lb woman and 220lb man.<

Oh, yeah. It really helped last night in that health club, didn't it? Bullshit. The 110 lb. woman would be disarmed and shot with her own weapon before she had a chance to shoot her assailant.

I object to those who should never get their hands on a gun in the first place, like last night's mass murderer. Interesting that you can't seem to make that connection. Then again, you don't seem to have much of a grasp on grammar or sentence structure, either, so why should this surprise me?

Have fun in your alternate universe!

[Pavulon]

73. ~2500 a year for 10 years

to the DNC or locals in my state who need it. (not many, NC is quite blue). Are we discussing grammar here? You a copy editor? Stay on topic.

Your attempt to paint me as hostile to women is disgusting and stupid.

Dont like the law, change it. The morons who decided to ban booze and dope modified the law. It was greatly successful. Attempting to change this law will result in a political disaster.

You owe a retraction for your bullshit "lay back and take it" shit, it is low, unsupported by my words, and a a vomit stain of a post.

[noiretextatique]

69. i think you post

is great :thumbsup:

[tabasco]

71. Utter stupidity.

Clearly on display.

[Pavulon]

74. Great content. I mean god knows that is much to ask

on a discussion board..

[slackmaster]

31. No, only an idiot would say something like that

:argh:

[krispos42]

58. And I thought everybody would be safe if nobody had guns

[Bill McBlueState]

62. "UK Rate Adj."

What does "adj" mean?

[krispos42]

66. They use murders per million, the DoJ does murders per 100,000

I converted them both into the same unit of measurment for comparison.

[DainBramaged]

7. a man unrecognized by the gym's staff turned off lights and shot people in a Latin dance class

Authorities said the gunman was armed with a handgun and may have fatally shot himself at the scene, in addition to shooting and wounding as many as nine others shortly after 8:15 p.m.

Nope, nothing wrong with owning too many pistols, nope nope.


http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/20283352/detail.html

[rd_kent]

52. How many is too many?

It only takes one nutjob to take an inanimate object and use it to hurt or kill someone.

[Faygo Kid]

8. Awful. WTF?

Shocking. What a world.

[Faygo Kid]

10. Latest: ". . people covered in blood in a shooting that may have involved MORE THAN ONE LOCATION"

This is very nasty stuff.

Breaking by the minute. http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/20283352/detail.html

[Uzybone]

11. I have thought many times how easy it would be for a psycho to rampage at the gym

gym bags, easy access to guns, closed environment...


Lots of sick people who can get a deadly weapon with no trouble at all.

[JonQ]

12. Insane

I hope they catch the guy soon.

[RamboLiberal]

13. Reports are he killed himself

Police don't seem to be looking for a suspect.

[JonQ]

17. Too bad he didn't lead with that move.

[theHandpuppet]

34. Exactly what I was thinking, too

If these mass shooter types are so fucking miserable, why don't they first blow their own brains out and be done with it?

[Mike Daniels]

59. They kill themselves first they're a "nobody". Kill a bunch of people first they become "somebody"

That's probably simplified to a major degree but I think it's apt in some of these cases.

Most of the recent nut-jobs that have gone on a shooting spree have come off as full-time misfit losers with no lives and few friends. Taking out a bunch of people allows them some sort of release against a world that "did them wrong" and give them the notoriety/"fame" that they never experienced in life.

I imagine that offing themselves is tied into the ego as well as it ends up with people researching "why did he do this" (focus on the shooter) which would be more easily answered if the shooter wimps out and doesn't pull the trigger on himself.

[countmyvote4real]

18. I think they got him. I read that he killed himself at the gym class. n/t

[RamboLiberal]

14. Reports from Pittsburgh media

A man carrying a duffel bag walked into a rear door of the L.A. Fitness center in Collier this evening and opened fire, killing at least four people and wounding as many as 10.

Allegheny County police said they believe the gunman was among the dead.

-----

Stacey Falk, 26, of Bridgeville, said she was in an aerobics room about 8:15 p.m with 30 to 40 other women when a short, clean-shaven man, dressed in workout clothes, walked in with a duffel bag. He stood in a corner near a racquetball court for a moment, put the bag down and turned off the lights in the room.

Then shots rang out, and people began falling to the floor. Ms. Falk said she briefly got a look at what appeared to be a short-barrel rifle.

"Girls were just ducking behind each other. All I could hear were gunshots and girls screaming, screaming. Girls were running into each other. We were using each other for protection.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09216/988585-100.stm#ixzz0NH93uvDS

Several witnesses told a WTAE Channel 4 Action News crew first at the scene that a man unrecognized by the gym's staff turned off lights and shot people in a Latin dance class in the aerobics center at the time of the shooting. Every witness to whom WTAE Channel 4's Jon Greiner spoke said they didn't realize what they were hearing was gunfire.

"The lights were off and I could see flashes in the dark," said Jared Frederick, a witness.

A woman in the class at the time of the shooting, identified as Nicole, told WTAE Channel 4 Action News that the class had started about 10 minutes before the gunfire. She said about 30 people -- all women -- were in the class when "a middle-aged white male walked into the class. He had a big gym bag."

"He looked out of place in a class full of women," according to the witness, who said the man put his bag down, turned the lights off and opened fire. "It was horrible. He was 20 feet from me. He got off a lot of shots."

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/20283352/detail.html

Charles Moffatt of the Allegheny County police said the shooting took place in just a few minutes, and about 70 people were inside the gym at the time.

Police said they are not sure about a motive. There are reports that this was a love triangle gone bad.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/20283426/detail.html

An Allegheny County policeman said he believes one of the dead was the gunman. Witnesses said they saw two to four wounded women lying outside the back door and two others lying in a parking lot at the side of the LA Fitness center along Washington Pike.

Witnesses said a gunman wearing a black hat walked into an aerobics room filled with women shortly after 8 p.m., turned out the lights and opened fire.

Witnesses reported hearing dozens of gunshots before the shooting stopped.

"All of a sudden there was a really loud noise," said Julia Zorzi, 27, of Crafton, who was on a treadmill on the main floor when the gunfire began. "I heard 40 to 50 shots, and I hit the deck. I saw people running out. I ran outside and there were two girls lying outside.

"The shots came very fast," she said. "It sounded like he was using a serious piece of machinery."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_636758.html

[Lautremont]

15. This sounds like Montreal.

[RamboLiberal]

16. You may be right

KDKA TV just reported all dead and all injured are female except for the gunman who apparently committed suicide.

[Kievan Rus]

21. That's the first thing I thought when I heard it was all women

[xchrom]

19. kick

[RamboLiberal]

20. Pittsburgh media are now reporting 4 dead

at 11:50PM scaling it back from high of 6 they reported dead. I don't think that includes the gunman.

[onehandle]

22. Sometimes when you get Really Mad, you Can find a gun(s). nt

[joecool65]

23. Love triangle

I was in the Bridgeville area this evening, not too far from LA Fitness.
Word is a love triangle was the motivation behind the shooting.

[musette_sf]

27. what a surprise (not)

welcome to DU :hi:

[InfiniteThoughts]

24. moron ...

i pray that he rots in hell for eternity. nothing justifies killing innocent people!

And i hope NRA can shut up and respect the loss of lives in this situation. The Right to bear arms (in the 21st century!) is the single biggest mistake in the history of US!

[PittPoliSci]

25. they won't

they were all over pittsburgh after THREE COPS were killed in april.

fucking douchebags.

[Dappleganger]

49. If that was true

there'd be no Constitution or USA.

[rd_kent]

53. Wow! If you are right, why stop there?

Perhaps we should limit free speech too? And then we can go ahead and allow more government intrusion into our private lives by limiting the 4th amendment in the name of more security right? Still no need to stop there...... Like it or not, if we repeal just one amendment, it opens the door to justifying repealing others.

[Bill McBlueState]

63. Right, like how the whole Constitution fell apart

after Prohibition was repealed.

Some of the amendments may just be bad ideas. Presidential term limits is another one I can think of.

[JonQ]

55. Really? I think the first amendment is our biggest mistake

just think of all the great things the government could do to protect us if they weren't concerned about having to appease the masses, or deal with protests.

Really this obsession with liberties is getting in the way of the true purpose of government; security.

That is afterall why we had the revolution in the first place; the british were ramming all these terrifying rights down our throats when all we wanted was a benevolent father figure to follow unquestioningly in exchange for promises of security.

[hack89]

60. Damn those pesky civil rights

we need another Patriot act to fix the gun problem.

[Loudmxr]

28. Wow this is where my cousin Tommy lives. He lives over the "bridge" of Bridgeville.

I imagine he is OK cause he is 80+. But he is also well known around town so he would be on top of who and what. It is now 3am there so I am not calling. Family is family. But sleep is sleep. :smoke:

BTW only one car can pass on the bridge in Bridgeville. Wow that is strange to a California man.

[Divine Discontent]

32. another "my life is over" idiot who takes others with him because he thinks he deserves better than

what he has had happen to him, or caused, before the incident.


God bless the families, what a hellish thing to have happen. that guy can't hurt anyone else, at least

[Pavulon]

33. These guys need to just kill themselves..

It would be better if they got mental health care but if they just have to conduct a violent act, it would be preferable they just take themselves out first.

[raccoon]

41. The government should start an intense propaganda, I mean public information,

campaign to encourage them to do just that. Not sure if I'm into :sarcasm: or not.

[Richmark Sentinel]

35. Pittsburgh gunman kills 4 in health club

Source: Associated Press wire

BRIDGEVILLE, Pennsylvania August 5 Sapa-AP

By Joe Mandak

A gunman strolled to the back of an exercise class at a health
club in suburban Pittsburgh and started spraying bullets, leaving
at least four people dead, including himself, and injuring at least
10 others.

A law enforcement official says two women and a man believed to
be the shooter died at the scene Tuesday night and a fourth person
died on the way to a hospital. The official wasn't authorized to
comment on the investigation into the shooting and spoke on
condition of anonymity.

Allegheny County police Superintendent Charles Moffatt said the
shooter did not say anything.

"He walked right into the room where the shootings occurred as
if he knew exactly where he was going."


Read more: http://www.richmarksentinel.com/rs_headlines.asp?recid=603&pcurr=1

[Liberal_in_LA]

36. news said he turned out the lights before shooting

[DURHAM D]

37. oh look - just a few posts down in LBN, same story nt

[Crunchy Frog]

38. He could have done EXACTLY the same thing with a knife.

[wiselatino]

39. He could have shot 15 people with a knife?

Wow, that's some knife!

[slackmaster]

48. Depends on the type of knife

[DrCory]

40. Or Worse...

Note the death tolls:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23960187-12377,00.html

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2009/07/sheriff_jacob_shaffer_bought_s.html

[Paladin]

45. Bullshit. (n/t)

[Endangered Specie]

72. Explain this then:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1376982.stm
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1812808,00.html

[Paladin]

76. Two Isolated Cases In Japan.

Versus the weekly incidents of nutcases using guns to slaughter people in the U.S.

Not even a good try on your part....

[Pavulon]

77. What is your solution?

any ideas on actual actions that would stop this?

[Endangered Specie]

78. The point was to show you that mass killing with a knife IS possible

now if you want "weekly incidents" maybe you should look to the UK, I understand their knife crime rate is skyrocketing.

Oh, and if a gun owner was to talk of a shooting as an "isolated case" we would be denounced as uncaring and heartless.

[Paladin]

79. And What Would You Rather Face?

A knife blade or a 9mm bullet? And as far as those knife crime rate stats from the UK are concerned: ship them to the families of the victims in this latest gun violence atrocity and see what they think....

[jkirch]

43. Read the killer's blog.

http://www.georgesodini.com/20090804.htm

[yodermon]

46. holy SHIT.

words fail

[rd_kent]

54. Uh, why post the story in a thread about the story?

[catzies]

64. That might have been the mods' doing, merging the dupes. n/t

[RamboLiberal]

56. Neighbors: 'We knew him, but obviously we did not really know him'

Homeowners gathered this morning outside their tidy brick homes in Scott with one question in mind: Why did neighbor George Sodini kill three women in a nearby gym and then himself?

"We will now all have to live with the fact that we knew him, but obviously we did not really know him," said Candace Gettys, 58, of Orchard Spring Road, who lived a few houses away for 12 years. She said the two would "chit-chat about our lawns, things that were going on," when they saw each other.

"He was always very friendly, if not a bit reclusive," she said.

Starting about two years ago, she noticed changes in Sodini, 48, a systems analyst at K&L Gates, a Downtown law firm, and University of Pittsburgh graduate.

"He was always a little off, but he became even more so," Gettys said. She said she sometimes saw Sodini's mother visit and another woman she thought was his sister, but those were the only visitors she ever saw — and they didn't come often.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_636886.html

[RamboLiberal]

57. The Victims

Neighbors on the quiet Green Tree street where Elizabeth "Betsy" Gannon lived were devastated by the news of her death.

Ms. Gannon, 49, had spent almost her entire life in a two-story red brick house on Sheldon Avenue.



In Collier, family members gathered at Heidi Overmier's home this morning recalled a petite, energetic woman who was a devoted single mother to a 15-year-old son, Ian.

"He was her life," her sister, Connie Moneck, 52, of West Mifflin said.



The third victim, Ohio native Jody Billingsley, 38, had lived alone in her red-brick Colonial home in Mt. Lebanon for seven years. Neighbors and friends said she moved to the neighborhood, near the boundary with Banksville, after taking a job as a physical therapist.

"I used to see her at the hospitals when I'd be there for treatment," said neighbor John Williams, who learned of Ms. Billingsley's death this morning. "She was a wonderful girl."



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09217/988738-100.stm#ixzz0NKS9k4MT

My deepest sympathies to their families. It is another gray sad day in Pittsburgh.

[RamboLiberal]

65. New Details from Police News Conference

A gunman who opened fire at a health club in Collier Township Tuesday night had no relationship with any of the victims, according to police.

Allegheny County police superintendent Charles Moffatt said during a press conference Wednesday afternoon, that George Sodini walked into the L.A. Fitness in Collier Township with four handguns.

He used two 9 mm handguns to attack the victims and a .45-caliber revolver to take his own life. A .32-caliber handgun was also found, but was not used. Two extra 30-round clips were found in his duffel bag.

In all, Sodini killed three people before turning the gun on himself. Nine others were wounded in the shooting.

http://kdka.com/local/geoge.sodini.information.2.1116002.html

All legally bought. Also had a license to carry according to Moffatt. One detail I didn't like was Moffatt kept saying the 30 round magazines (Moffatt incorrectly called them clips) were illegal during the time of the AWB. Wrong. Only newly manufactured were illegal. There were plenty of grandfathered high capacity including 30 rounders available - though at an inflated price because of the AWB. But this jerk could've afforded with his job I would bet.