No plan B if Ireland rejects EU treaty: Spain

[Ghost Dog]

Source: AFP

VIENNA — Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos said here Monday his country, which next takes over the European Union presidency, has no back-up plan if Irish voters again reject the Lisbon Treaty. "We do not have a plan B, it would be bad to already speak of a plan B," Moratinos told a joint press conference after meeting with his Austrian counterpart Michael Spindelegger. "We hope the Irish people will rule in favour of the treaty," Moratinos added ahead of the Irish referendum on the bloc's reform treaty to be held October 2.

The Spanish minister was in Vienna to present Madrid's plans for its six-month EU presidency, which begins on January 1.

...

Finding a solution to the conflict in the Middle East will also be among the Spanish presidency's main priorities, as well as boosting EU ties with the United States, Latin America and the Balkans, Moratinos said.

Disagreements among the bloc's members over Kosovo's independence, which Madrid has not recognised, will not pose any problems, he added. "We respect different points of view," said Moratinos. "We all want to promote peace and stability by putting forth a European perspective for Balkan countries," he added.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gcQWSYmwtL12lcMrpNY09CtQ0B0Q

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I predict that the Irish will again reject this treaty, if I know them. The treaty's economic details (too Chicago-school, in spite of the "social clauses") will have to be re-negotiated, however 'inconvenient' or next-to-impossible they say that would be. However long it takes, in order to arrive at the right Treaty. And I'm pro-EU, on the right terms. That's just my personal opinion, and I may be wrong. None of the rest of us here in the EU, for some (obvious) reason even have the right to vote on this very fundamental issue, although, yes, the Spanish government did at least distribute millions of copies of the Treaty (with appendices) before the European parliamentary elections-before-last, so I have at least scanned it...

[CountAllVotes]

1. the Irish hate this more and more

its popularity is sinking faster than the dollar is right now and no, it will not be passed. :thumbsdown:

Not that I blame Ireland btw.

:kick:

[Ghost Dog]

4. Good for Ireland for even consulting Real People

in the first place.

Absolutely nobody is going to criticise them for that.

(I should declare an interest: Celtic (amongst other) roots... and plenty of personal history... (I was born in Yorkshire)).

[reggie the dog]

11. Thank you Ireland

Here in France we voted no, then our government made a bipartisan effort (UMP and SOCIALIST) to change our French constitution to permit them to adhere to a larger constitution without putting the question up for a referrendum. Then they voted yes on our behalf because they thought we were too stupid to know how and why we were voting no. A no from Ireland would be great. But at the end of the day it is the choice of the Irish people.

[Another Bill C.]

2. I agree with your prediction.

The Irish have several reasons to reject this treaty:
There is a sovereignty issue which, given Ireland's history, is a huge factor with Irish voters. It took 800 years for Ireland to become a sovereign nation and the Irish are not going to easily give that up.
They now have a relatively low corporate tax rate which attracts investment (and jobs) from foreign investors. With unemployment at a 14-year high, the Irish are not going to chance losing any more jobs.
Ireland is a neutral country and the treaty may require Ireland's commitment of troops to the EU's defense forces.
The Catholics of Ireland are concerned that a stronger EU court of justice will overrule Ireland's abortion ban.

[Ghost Dog]

3. Yes, these are all important points,

and a few (doubtful) 'get-out' clauses, UK-style, will not swing it.

[CountAllVotes]

8. the Church has become rather irrelevant in Ireland

in fact many of the Churches are closed and have been sold.

They lost many Catholics after pope Ratzinger came to be and the molestation of children doesn't go over so hot with the Irish.

I was there several years ago and went to High Mass on a Sunday and guess what? I was the only one that was there!

I was pretty shocked and was told that Buddhism is now the #1 religion in Ireland.

People do not believe me when I tell them this. However, I have relatives living there that own a lot of land and they have a little temple they built on it as about 1/2 of that family is now Buddhist!

Ireland will always remain what they have always been; unique, fighters and not a people to follow rules necessarily.

ERIN GO BRAUGH!

:kick:

[trungpa ricochet]

5. There is organized resistance to pro-Israel bias in the language of the treaty

Many Irish are outraged at Israel's behaviour, especially last winter in Gaza.

Here is video of one man's experience with his convictions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch9ORXw8ulw

Background info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kRjgkrYGto&eurl

[Ghost Dog]

6. Uh huh. "Protecting the tourists". We know all about that down here,

mate.

(But I thought the young Gard (policeman) was relatively civilised, all the same).

[Robbien]

7. Too early for a plan B?

Hasn't this EU treaty been kicking around for four or five years? Whenever it is left up to the people in a country to adopt it, it gets shot down. The Irish aren't the first to say no way. Right?

[Ghost Dog]

10. Irish not the first to say no?

Well, I thought so... (see eg.:

German parliament approves EU treaty law - Summary

Posted : Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:29:33 GMT Berlin - Germany's lower house of parliament approved new legislation on Tuesday that will enable the country to ratify the treaty streamlining the running of the European Union. The vote was necessary after the country's top court ruled the domestic law empowering ratification of the Lisbon Treaty had to be amended to give parliament more power in decision-making in Brussels.

Deputies voted 494-46 in favour of the new legislation, with only members of the hardline left party opposition it.

The bill now goes to the upper house, where representatives of Germany's 16 federal states are to vote on it September 18, paving the way for President Horst Koehler to sign the ratification documents.

The Lisbon Treaty must be ratified by all 27 EU member states before it can come into force. Aside from Germany, the ratification process has still to be completed in the Czech Republic, Poland and Ireland.

/... http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/284763,german-parliament-approves-eu-treaty-law--summary.html

- yeah, Earth Times again, but even so, lookee here (official EU site):

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/countries/index_en.htm

Something here is not right).

(Notice the usual line above about "streamlining" the (voting procedures, amongst other things) of the EU. Never mind the small print. We're supposed to leave it in the hands of our "elected representatives", except for Ireland).

[reggie the dog]

12. We voted no in France for the E.U. Constitution

then the two major parties here changed our constitution to permit them to ratify a multi nation constitution without asking the voters and promptly voted yes for the Treaty of Lisbon. They are a bunch of assholes. We said no, THE FUCKING PEOPLE SAID NO then the govt. said yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[truebrit71]

9. Good for them....folks in the UK didn't even get the chance to vote on it...

...