ABC News Was Misquoted on (9/12 Protest) Crowd Size

[Tx4obama]

Source: ABC News

ABC News Reported D.C. Rally Size in Tens of Thousands, Not 1M to 1.5M as Activist Said.

<SNIP>

Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, the group that organized the event, said on stage at the rally that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance.

At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. <SNIP>

As a result of Kibbe's erroneous attribution, several bloggers and commenters repeated the misinformation.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055

---

Be sure when you go to the ABC News link to look under the photos for the 2nd part of the article.

Also:

I have sent the ABC News link and info to Politifact.com asking them to post an article regarding this on their Truth-O-Meter with a 'pants on fire' rating for the fib that the Prez of FreedomWorks told on stage.
People all over the net, Twitter, FB, etc. are using the 1 to 2 Million figure. Palinites and Beckites have been celebrating the 2 million number - and it is incorrect!

[Avalux]

1. They are all liars. The truth means nothing to them.

They will continue to insist there was a million and a half people there today.

[BREMPRO]

33. All the speeches were filled with lies, so why would the crowd count be any different?

I'm sure they will continue to bask in the faux glory of their fantasy number. Glad to see ABC post the denial right away. I saw this yesterday and could find no mention of anything on ABC or any other network for that matter of anything more than "tens of thousands". It reminds me of how they were encouraged to spread out in town hall meetings and be constant disrupters to make it seem like there numbers were greater. I would bet it started as just by one of the baggers misreading a quote of what they expected as opposed to how many actually showed up and then wishful thinking, instead of fact checking passed it along on the internets and eventually into the speakers on stage who showed themselves for who they are- charlatans.

I went to an anti Iraq war march and rally in NYC a few years ago and there were estimated to be over 400,000 people who marched and the major networks barely mentioned it- the only media we saw there was left wing bloggers and foreign press. It was a shameful display of media silence. CNN carried the whole baggers charade live, and it was front page news on every site. 60,000 at best.

[madmilker]

108. a mule...

when it comes to work.....they turn their @ss to it.  Jus how
can a great union in jus 233 years go from what a few fat
farmers wrote about with the penmanship of poets (1776-the
American dream)to a meltin' pot of a bunch asinine
"jack@sses and elephants" with an IQ of a hair on a
gnats @ss.
The turnips in D. C. have squander over $100 trillion dollars
from the Social Security System and Medicare....they have a
debt load of over $12 trillion tat in most part in the hands
of foreigners while America being $57 trillion in debt and
each and every one blames the other.

Well, people...it's time to get away from tis elephant and
jack@ss mentality....screw your heads on straight and put your
mind in the place of those who wrote the United States
Constitution.  People are not sent to D. C. to write thousands
of Bills, party with special interest and tell their
constituents back home tat he or she is sendin' them sum bacon
back cause Uncle Sam is ther to take care of you.

George Washington serve his country for only eight years and
went home.  In his September 17, 1796 farewell address he said
tis “is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances
with any portion of the foreign world,”.....and now look at
tis place.  The nice people of China are holding all most all
Americas debt and what is not held by them the nice people of
Japan and the UK hold most of the rest.

Now! in the year's 1776-1910 ther had only been a total debt
from the "turnips" in D. C. of $2.6 billion dollars
but in jus the short time (99 years) until 2008 tat National
Debt has mushroom to a whooping $10.6 TRILLION.  There has
only been 1 ten year period tat the debt has gone down and tat
wus from 1920-1930.

So!  as anyone can see....tis is NOT a jack@ss or elephant
thing....it is an American people thing and until the people
get out of those elephant and jack@ss suits, put real people
with character, faith in God, love for their Country, family
and their job nothin' is gonna change.

Being an O'fart with not much learnin' I've taken the word
"Washington" out of D. C....cause if the American
people wus to sit down and read his farewell address they
would sincerely do the same....

"Washington had been reelected unanimously in 1792. His
decision not to seek a third term established a tradition that
is now embedded in the 22d Amendment of the Constitution. In
his Farewell Address of Sept. 17, 1796, he drew on the results
of his varied experience, offering a guide for both present
and future. He urged his compatriots to cherish the Union,
support the public credit, be alert to the “insidious wiles of
foreign influence,” respect the Constitution and the nation’s
laws, abide by the results of elections, and eschew political
parties of a sectional cast. Asserting that the United States
and Europe had different interests, he declared that it “is
our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any
portion of the foreign world,” trusting to temporary alliances
for emergencies. He also warned against indulging in either
habitual favoritism or habitual hostility toward particular
nations, lest such attitudes should provoke or involve the
country in needless wars."

And today the United States of America has the largest company
"Wal*Mart" with their China web page stating tis...

"Wal-Mart firmly believes in local procurement. We
recognize that by purchasing quality products, we can generate
more job opportunities, support local manufacturing and boost
economic development. Over 95% of the merchandise in our
stores in China is sourced locally. We have established
partnerships with nearly 20,000 suppliers in China."

Dang!  with a quote like tat would make any American think
twice bout why they took the "hyphen" out of the
name and replaced it with tat STAR.....or even why they moved
their Global Procurement offices to Hong Kong and than to
China.

Now! if there be 182 country’s making items for the world to
buy and they have only 5% of the pie in China…duh! This
company makes the nice people of China support their
currency(yuan) by keeping it in their country working for the
people there…. but with the “yuan” going up in value and the
US dollar going down…all the foreign items that the American
consumer buys thinking it is cheap has went up in price.

People…its all about the currency and to keep a currency
strong you got to keep it floating around the country you live
in so it can work for you. For the past 12 years all them US
dollars are being shipped overseas to a foreign bank and with
the American worker not making anything for the foreigner to
buy the “we the people” have to turn to the “second” largest
employer in America(Uncle Sam) to sell “we the people” debt in
order to get all them dollars back!

50 years ago a foreigner would had given their left nut for a
US dollar or a Hershey’s chocolate bar and today the same
foreigner has got Uncle Sam and the American consumer by both
all the while Hershey is moving the chocolate factory to
Mexico. Wake up! America and think “MADE IN AMERICA.”

quote*"Considering that there are over 30,000 ships at
sea this morning," writes James Carlton, director of the
Williams College-Mystic Seaport Maritime Studies Program, in
an e-mail, "the total number of organisms and species in
this global 'bioflow' on the morning your readers read your
piece could be staggering - billions of individuals, and
thousands of species."

Indeed, scientists have long considered ballast water the
primary way invasive aquatic organisms are introduced. From
the zebra mussel's arrival in the Great Lakes, to an American
jellyfish severely disrupting Black Sea fisheries, the
potential costs of accidental introduction of a species to new
homes can be tremendous. Aquatic invasives cost the US $9
billion yearly, according to estimates by David Pimentel,
professor emeritus of ecology and evolutionary biology at
Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y. Zebra and quagga mussels (a
cousin to the zebra) alone cost the $1 billion annually.*end
quote!

tat is $9 billion a year in hidden taxes to all Americans...
cheap ain't chic and it cost America............jobs!

Feel free to read "The Flow of Trade in a Global
Economy" by Lance Winslow. There is one quote from his
article tat comes in mind. "Now let us look at Wal-Mart
again; you buy a product there, 6% goes to the employees,
10-18% is profit to the company, 25% goes to other costs and
50% goes to re-stock or the cost of goods sold. Of the 50%
about 20-25% goes to China, a guess, but you get the point.
Now then, how long will it take at 433 Billion dollars at year
for China to have all of our money, leaving no money flow for
us to circulate? At a 17 Trillion dollar economy less than
40-years minus the 1/6 they buy from us. Some say that if we
keep putting money into our economy, it would take forever,
but if we do not then eventually all the money flow will go.
If China buys our debt then eventually they own us, no need to
worry about a war, they are buying America, due in part to our
own mismanaged trade, so whose fault is that? Not necessarily
China, as they are doing what's in the best interests, and we
should make sure that trade is not only free, but fair
too." 

How do you think George feels being sent overseas in return
for all tat foreign so-call cheap items and being left in a
foreign bank because the American worker doesn't make anythig
for the foreigners to buy. Cheap items didn't make tis great
union of 57...oops! 50 states the greatest place on the face
of tis Earth.....the American worker (union and non-union)
did. 

You can't have a strong country without having a strong
currency and you can't have a strong currency unless you keep
it floating around within your 50 states. Tis is why the store
with the star in the name puts 95% China made items in their
stores in China....to keep their "yuan" in their
country helping the nice people there. And with only 5% left
for all the other 182 country's tat make stuff including the
United States of America....tat doesn't produce very many jobs
outside of China. 

Being an old person myself and knowing how it wus back in the
40's, 50's and 60's in tis union of 50 states....I look at
George each time I pull him out of my billfold and make a
promise to send him out for items made in America so after
floating around helping each hand he touches jus maybe one day
he will shake mine again.  

oh!  spend a little time on Michael Hodges "Grandfather
Economic Report" series site as an American citizen not a
Jack@ss nor Elephant and learn jus a few things tat are wrong
with tis great union.  You will see in only a short while tat
it will take more than the @ss of a mule and the trunk of an
elephant to get tis country back to where George left it on
September 17, 1796.  Gudday and God Bless!    

[bulloney]

42. Let's see how Snuffalopogus & Co. handle the attendance discrepancy today on 'This Week.'

Will he and his panel use the 1 million + attendance figure?

[Big_Mike]

113. Look at it logistically

Did they have the water and toilet facilities planned ahead of time? Don't think so.

I'll go with the Fire Dept. numbers.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lapfog_1]

2. By calculation crowd extent, and making a few educated

guesses on density, I have a number of 20K. 60K would be near impossible (that would require a density of 1 person per every 5 sq ft. and by looking at closeups, there was plenty of room for lawn chairs and blankets and such.)

Try standing with a room full of people crowded into 2ft by 2ft squares each (the size of a computer room tile, btw), you can do it, but most people feel an invasion of their "personal" space and want at least an arm's length between them and the next person, unless spouse or family member. People only do that when constrained by an enclosure, or pressed in by the outer bands of the crowd. This crowd wasn't big enough (unlike, say, the inauguration crowd) to self caused constraint, and I could see no reason that they couldn't spill down the mall...

[liberalmike27]

78. When I watched the coverage

They were saying maybe ten thousand, or in the ten thousands. It seemed about right, as anytime they show a picture of a crowd from very close, you know they are trying to make it look larger than it actually was. I watched NBC's coverage, which is a notably further right channel than MSNBC, more like CNN, and FUX-Use Network. I also noted not only did their coverage lack a wide-shot, but in the close cropped shot they did show, people were not even positioned densely.

It all goes along with what I've noticed since right about when the House decided to put a sur-tax on their health care bill on the very rich, like Brian Williams, Katie Couric, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, and Chris Mathews. The coverage of Obama has really gotten unfair, and the coverage of his politcal detractors has grown massively.

Clearly it was a small rally, and the press tried to blow it up way larger than it was. We'll see what the Sunday shows say, since I have them recorded, and will watch them later.

[Lex]

3. 20,000 max

is probably about right

[cali]

17. How would you know? You're just making up a number. Not unlike the other side.

[TheEuclideanOne]

23. Remember, 75% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[eppur_se_muova]

25. Well, 68%. But point taken. nt

:evilgrin:

[Frank Cannon]

46. I see what you did there

Well played.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

61. odds are you are correct,

probably.

[Lex]

77. LOL, you don't say!

Nothing gets past you. So sharp. hahaha

[lapfog_1]

86. The method is pretty straight forward

and one that I've used for many such crowds (starting with the original antiwar demonstrations when the left was accusing the media of under reporting crowd size).

Get an accurate overhead photo of the event. Use google planimeter (or other such tool) to outline (as precisely as you can) the area the crowd occupies. That gives you an estimate of sq. ft. (or acres or whatever).
Now, if you also have close-ups of the crowd, you can start making an estimate of density. Blankets spread out, lawn chairs deployed, lots of space between groups, that's one density, standing shoulder to shoulder when marching, that's another density.

Do some math and you have a rough estimate.

The method is fairly accurate.

I estimated an upper bound of 30K for yesterday's event. Probably more like 20K or 25K. UNfortunately, I have yet to see a definitive overhead shot when they rallied at the capitol steps, but there was some "overlooking" video, and you can see the trees and other landmarks where the crowd peters out.

[CakeGrrl]

4. Uh-oh, the horrid liberal media is conspiring against them!

The idiot Freepers were even about to abandon Fox News for the day when they wouldn't bump up the estimate over the tens of thousands. They were relying on Michelle Malkin, who was one of the bloggers who parroted the wrong information.

:rofl:

[krispos42]

5. Common practice

The lie goes halfway around the world while the truth is still getting out of bed.

[Keepin It Real]

6. Mis quote

That's never gonna get undone - they are going to run with that lie just like they did with the death panels and all the other garbage. The GOP doesn't want to be confused with facts.

[Turborama]

7. It was disinformation, not misinformation. Misinforming is accidental, disinforming is on purpose...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation">Misinformation is false or inaccurate information that is spread unintentionally. It is distinguished from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation">disinformation by motive in that misinformation is simply erroneous, while disinformation, in contrast, is intended to mislead.

[TheEuclideanOne]

28. Thank you so much for posting this distinction

I have been using the word Misinformation for as long as I can remember regarding all of the lies that have been spread. That is a huge distinction and thanks for educating me on that.

[Turborama]

143. You're most welcome, thanks for the feedback

It's a common mistake that's being perpetuated by the MSM and I feel that it needs to be corrected every time it appears. I've had to make about 5 posts about this since I've noticed the wrong word being used over the past couple of weeks and feel it's important to continue doing so until we stop seeing 'misinformed' being used incorrectly.

[rayofreason]

8. Time lapse video shows the numbers...

And they were large.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPud1TeubM

Much larger than a the size of the crowd at a recent concert I attended, and there were 50,000 there.

[Confusious]

10. Where would that be?

LArget arenas in the United States:

Dean Smith Center - Chapel Hill, NC (21,750);
Thompson-Boling Arena - Knoxville, Tennessee (24,535);
Marriott Center - Provo, Utah (22,700);
BankAtlantic Center, Sunrise, Florida (22,457)
St. Pete Times Forum,Tampa, Florida (21,817);
Philips Arena, Atlanta, Georgia (21,000);
United Center, Chicago, Illinois (23,500);
Rupp Arena, Lexington, Kentucky (23,500);
Palace of Auburn Hills, Auburn Hills, Michigan (22,076);
Joe Louis Arena, Detroit, Michigan (21,152);
Scottrade Center, St. Louis, Missouri (22,000);
RBC Center, Raleigh, North Carolina (21,500);
Greensboro Coliseum, Greensboro, NC (23,500);
Alerus Center, Grand Forks, North Dakota (22,000);
Quicken Loans Arena, Cleveland, Ohio (21,200);
Wachovia Center, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (21,600);
EnergySolutions Arena, Salt Lake City, Utah (22,000);


Unless you were outside, in a crowd, and then I really wouldn't trust anyone's judgment on that.

[rayofreason]

70. Dallas Cowboys Stadium

http://blog.taragana.com/e/2009/08/19/paul-mccartney-concert-at-cowboys-stadium-rangers-play-next-door-25985/

It can seat 100,000.

The show was great. Sir Paul can rock like nobody's business.

[pattmarty]

32. It's kinda hard to count them in the video. It is moving too fast.............

..........Look, Einstein, "official" crowd figures come from the police/fire departments and if they say 50 to 70K then that's the "official" number. You better "your" youtube video over to worldnut daily, they'll love and more importantly believe it AND you.

[rayofreason]

83. What a silly statement.

1. It is not "my video". I found it googling because I wanted to see actual pictures of the crowd to get an idea of what really happened, regardless of what "official" number is reported. I have a healthy skepticism about such things.

2. If you want to believe that the video shows 50 to 70K, go ahead. But don't tell me that your belief is based on quantitative reasoning.

I did not give an estimate of the crowd, but I can do so here.

Pennsylvania Ave is about 180 ft across (including sidewalks) and 6000 ft long from the point where the pictures were taken (easily confirmed with google maps). If the spacing was on average 4 ft between people, then the length of Pennsylvania avenue holds 67,500. And it is clear that the video shows the crowd moving down the street, filling it, and keeping it filled for some time. Without a time stamp it would be hard to judge, but the crowd was much more than 50-70K - probably 3-4 times that.

[pattmarty]

99. AND, I have a Kenyan birth certificate but was born in Dumbfuckistan...

That is a country 6000ft long by 3/4" wide and holds 300 people that each weigh (on average) 400kg. Ok, now be a good boy and go and play at Worldnut daily.

[rayofreason]

104. I have no reason to dispute your place of birth...

...and every reason to believe you.

Have a nice day, but don't think too hard about it. It might hurt.

[The Animator]

41. Just an observation...

I don't know what time increment was used for this, or if the increment was changed at the end, but at 0:16, the crowd takes a huge leap, from massing a half block from the closest intersection, to all the way down the street to the Capital.. Scrubbing through it, I would think it would be a more gradual progression than that.

[rayofreason]

91. Agreed

It is not clear what the time lapse sequence is, but the video itself seems to be genuine, and a rough estimate shows that the crowd was huge.

[JHB]

43. Can the source of that video be verified?

I don't see any time/date stamp, and we've already seen some cases od RWers trying to pass off photos of old events (see elsewhere in this thread) as depicting Saturday's tea-bagger event.

[rayofreason]

85. Looks like...

this is the source.

http://www.trafficland.com/city/WAS/camera/9087/index.html

[zbdent]

60. Problem with that is, when I got to the site yesterday that the cam does the live feed,

the flag was at full staff ... now, it may be later afternoon, but when is a "govt worker" doing work on a Saturday, raising the flag from half-staff to full staff after a march?

So the evidence is in question ...

[rayofreason]

90. The video is genuine

This post on dailykos.com shows a screenshot from the webcam later that afternoon as well as one from the march.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/12/781110/-Is-Malkin-Cheating-with-Photos-%28Updated%29

Look at the lower right hand corner - you will see a DC flag. Behind that flag, parked in front of the building, is a white vehicle, and behind it is a dark-colored vehicle. Those vehicles are in the same places in both pictures.

[NecklyTyler]

9. We can see which side the Main $tream Media is coming down on for this issue

Look for further slanted reporting from our "just the facts" journalists

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[divineorder]

12. Hardly fear

Even the police estimate 60k at the most. There were no reports of them needing any extra help with the crowd-which is what you would need with a million people anywhere for any reason. Nobody requested overtime work. No reports of crowded subways, hotel rooms, traffic jams, or people needing extra food, water. There were no rows of portapotties. Nothing to accommodate a mass crowd.

Six months notice. Enough time to bring not only themselves, but extended families. Enough time to not only protest, but to also set aside time for sightseeing before and after the protest. Where did folks go afterwards, and how many people took advantage of the trip to do something?

[AntiCitizen]

13. Crowd Size Likely 1 Million +

If you compare the crowd density taking from an arial shot and then compare it to the crowd estimates given for the Obama inaguration, the crowd sizes are extremely simular.

9/12 Photo:


Article showing map of U.S. Park Service estimates of Obama inaguration:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-19-crowd_N.htm

At least 1,000,000 people in attendance is a rather astute claim.

[foo_bar]

14. that's from October 1997

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6533925#6534456

[NYC Liberal]

15. Crowd size likely NOT "1 million +"

Try again and not with a 10 year old picture.

[Lochloosa]

16. Nice shadows. It was fucking overcast yesterday in DC.

Admit it. You got a .00001% of the population of the US to waste their time and, thankfully for the large minority population of DC, their money on a corporate stunt. Hats off.

[NJGeek]

18. wow - you morons don't even try to tell the truth

get a life. look in the mirror. you are lost. try again.

[myrna minx]

19. No matter how many times you try to post these photos that

were not taken of the 9/12 rally, we're still not going to indulge you. :hug: Our President drew 20,000 to see him with only 3 days notice. After this much ballyhooed 9/12 event, promoted by Fox News and your mad hatter, Glenn Beck for 6 months, only 30,000 to 50,000 of your fellow Fox cultists bothered to attend. You really embarrass yourself by making these claims. :hug: I feel really sorry for you.

[Chef Eric]

26. Enjoy your stay at DU. nt

[Ten Bears]

35. Wow, as if all of the other responders to you didn't out you...

...your spelling certainly did. You joined DU to post a lie? Which one of us did you think you could convert? MORAN!

[BumRushDaShow]

38. Epic FAIL.

:eyes:

[WePurrsevere]

44. Oh dear... it looks like you've been badly mislead. Here's an accurate comparison...

I know the picture of the RW protest on the right hand side to be accurate because I grabbed it as a screen capture off a news report on the protest yesterday. Of course the one of Obama's Inauguration is a matter of record all over the web.

[1Hippiechick]

73. Could you take those actual pix and start a thread with that as the topic?

Need to get this "out there."

[WePurrsevere]

81. I had already done so last night but..

please feel free to snag it and use as needed. I through it together quickly last night because I wanted to show clearly how they compared. :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6534919&mesg_id=6534919

[Shorebound]

84. Time stamp

Does that say 12:56 p.m. PT (Pacific Time)? So that makes it, what, 9:56 a.m. Eastern Time, right?

I want to send this to some friends, but want to cover all the bases first.

[Hansel]

100. No, it's 3:56 p.m. ET.

[Shorebound]

107. Whoops!

You're right. The time zones always confuse me, for some reason. The time stamp really is 12:56 pm, then? So it is almost 4 p.m., presumably as everything was winding down, rather than 1 p.m. Thank you for catching that.

[WePurrsevere]

110. They were marching there in the morning..

speakers and such in the afternoon.. there's probably a schedule of events out there if someone has the time and energy to go hunting. :)

[WePurrsevere]

109. Yes, thank you... We're 3 hours ahead of the Pacific Coast here. n/t

[WePurrsevere]

106. Yes, I think that's a "PT"..

I just went to the original screen shot I took and the numbers are clear.. not the letters as much. It was afternoon here so plus 3 hours.

ETA link to the video on DU and correct brain fog "duh": :eyes:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x370059 Perhaps you can make the time out better then these older eyes can. :)

[Shorebound]

122. Thanks for the link

By squinting, these old eyes made out that the video was shot at 3:54 Eastern Time (the time stamp keeps shifting between Pacific and Eastern time for some reason). That was after the festivities were mostly over, if I recall the television coverage correctly. I walked down the Mall at midday and the crowd was much thicker.

[n2doc]

116. So basically they couldn't even fill up the space at the foot of the Capitol

Across the street looks like an ordinary Saturday at the mall. So 20-50K (assuming this pic ain't all of them) sounds about right.

During the Inauguration it was packed solid past the Washington Monument. Way Past.

Probably got more protesters in DC during Iran's recent election fiasco.

[eddie01]

124. No way there was 1.5 million

I was lone progressive with the "Tax The Rich" sign. I received a lot of ridicule and scorned looks. There were definitely not 1.5 million people there. Best I can figure is it was closer to 1 million. However, I tell you this sincerely because I don't want my bretheren to underestimate the growing threat.

[myrna minx]

134. While I agree that these rabid racists are dangerous -(Timothy McVeigh anyone?)

they are not a political threat at all.They are embarrassing themselves as well as the GOP name. That they enjoy waving signs that display their desperate ignorance makes me cringe. The once noble GOP is nothing more that a southern regional Dixiecrat party that is filled with racist, ignorant, gullible people.

[BrklynLiberal]

127. Interesting...very interesting..

When I was at the women's rights march...and the anti-war march in DC a few years back...there were NO camera from any network to be seen.

The only pics I ever saw were taken by private parties...not news media.

here's one to compare with your screen capture....


This was the start of the women's rights march

[WePurrsevere]

131. Thank you for this. The media...

should have been all over this and the anti-war marches that also had huge turn outs from what I recall.

Sadly they long ago ditched trying to be balanced and feel that they only answer to their big corporate (rich) owners. They used to at least be subtle, now they're flat out blatant about it and still many don't see what's in front of their faces.

My journalism profs would be ripping their hair out over how the media is now.

[Lost-in-FL]

48. YOU LIE!!!

9/12 EPIC FAIL!!!

[high density]

58. The Smithsonian American Indian museum has gone missing!

Somebody call the cops!

[HughBeaumont]

63. Awesome catch.

:toast:

[DCKit]

128. The glass roof's off the botanic gardens too.

I've been since they finished the reconstruction, a must see when in DC. Just in front and to the right of the Capitol when looking eastwards, between the S. Capitol and Cap. Center SW Metro stops. Orchids everywhere inside ('cept when the roof goes missing and it's just a doorway into an alternative, Republican run Bizarroverse).

[HughBeaumont]

62. Fa FA FA FAAAAAIIIILLLL!!!

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. That is a deliberate terminological inexactitude on your part

as the very first reply to you showed.

This member won't be troubling us again with such misdirection, so, to everyone else, there's no need to keep on alerting.

[Lasher]

74. You mean a lie?

Thanks for doing what you do, man!

:fistbump:

Edit: BTW, thanks for not deleting the message in question. I don't want others to be deprived of the humor.

[1Hippiechick]

65. Toombstoned after 1 post?!?!? Must be a DU record. And I had just ordered pizza! LOL

[Lasher]

75. No, I've seen them tombstoned before they could get in a single post.

I kid you not.

[Lasher]

66. That's not even a good lie.

But then again, neither are the ones in the chain emails you assholes broadcast everywhere.

[Orangepeel]

68. Crowd Size Likely 6.7 billion +

[1Hippiechick]

71. LOL n/t

[NOLALady]

76. That didn't take long.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

79. Thats BS! cause the 9/12 rally permit did NOT allow them on the Mall at all...only on the "West ...

Front Lawn of the Capital to 3rd St"

The Mall was being used for a completely different event.

[66 dmhlt]

87. This is an "arial shot" - you twit

And these are "aerial shots"





Looks like your fellow RepubliKKKaaner Party comrade, Dan Quayle, must have taught you how to spell.

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. Where's the Museum of the American Indian?

Did they tear it down for yesterday's march? Interesting since they just built it a few years ago. Hmmm.

[SpiralHawk]

92. This has the smell of yet another Republicon lie

Are you lying to us, or to yourself?

[Beaverhausen]

97. Yes, in 1997 when that picture was taken

but you knew that already

[oasis]

137. "Million Moran March": Bill Maher's characterization. He was quick to

acknowledge that the numbers were way UNDER one million.

[WinkyDink]

20. "Misquoted"? Is that what we're calling lying these days?

[NikolaC]

21. So, basically he LIED n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

22. 70,000 attended an Obama campaign speech in Portland Oregon

Just a stump speech. Not a national rally. Multitudes, who went forth and voted.

[1Hippiechick]

72. Any pix of that to compare w/the pix in # 44 post, showing the true crowd shot posted by CSPAN? n/t

[ScottLand]

24. And can't they extrapolate that for the people who watched

on TV? My god, there must have been 20 million people there!!!!

[Politicub]

27. There were a trillion billion gazillion people there

I know because Glenn Beck told me. There appeared before me was a dark figure with lemur eyes, with a red Fox News logo glow shining through its prickly hair as a crown of thorns. Though I originally thought it was an apparition of the holy virgin, it was Beck sending a message to me in my sleep last night.

I awoke and must have wet the bed in excitement. I am now a messenger and must correct the untruth of D.C. fire department.

[tomm2thumbs]

50. that sounds much more accurate. thanks for confirming

[goclark]

29. How large did they estimate the number of Protesters at GW's

Swearing In?

I recall I saw one photo of someone with a sign near his limo, that's it.

I read about many more.

Now we see footage of the Morans with signs everyday and here all thir remarks.

Not saying it should not be reported, saying where were they for GW?

[pattmarty]

30. That's just another benefit of home schooling.

[JHB]

31. In many ways, the size of the crowd doesn't matter...

Whether it's 20K or a million, they're still pointing their anger in bullshit directions. Socialism? "Chicago politics"?

[Vinca]

36. I saw a whole lot of signs that would be great to use in campaign

commercials against anyone running for office who supports these characters. The bottom line is that if these people - Republican office holders included - were upset about spending, they might have given some indication of that during the Bush years. These are the folks tho couldn't rubber stamp the Bush spending spree fast enough. That's why we're in this mess. And, as a side note, I expect all those at the teabagger even who were over 65 to send in their Medicare cards on Monday. No government healthcare for you.

[SWr]

34. hmm

I just cruised over to freep. They have pics up that show the streets infront of the capitol packed.
They also had a pic of the mall as well which I didnt think they had a permit to use on Saturday.

[BumRushDaShow]

40. The NCNW is having a "Black Family Reunion Celebration" event

on the Mall all this weekend (that is who has the permit for the Mall). Don't be surprised if tens of thousands of black families (and others) as well as tourists, are cruising around the Mall and being counted as part of the teabagger "crowds" by freepers.

[SWr]

47. ya it was weird

They had all kinds of photos up there all w 9/12 dates but I swear Ive seen some of them before. Some even looked like
inauguration photos.

I guess they've been busy with photoshop.

[zoff]

37. They probably counted in tens or hundreds ...

Regardless, this only means that there are 2 million gullible, bat-shit crazy, conformist, dumb-as-a-doorknob, a-holes in America.

[truedelphi]

111. And I happen to live next door to one of them.

I am almost expecting our property lines to be land mined -as I am an organic nut and he is into pesticides.

[Enthusiast]

39. Imagine that. nt

[JHB]

45. The OTHER event on the Mall, the Black Family Reunion Celebration

Surreal that, that particular combo.

The main point is: any arial photos that don't show two events on the Mall (tea baggers near the Capitol, BFRC near the Smithsonian) are probably photos from some previous march (IOW, fakes).

I can't find attendance estimates for yesterday's BFRC, but their history page (http://www.ncnw.org/events/reunion_history.htm) claims "more than 500,000 each year" attending the two- or three-day celebration. At the very least they had a sizable crowd themselves which the teabaggers should not be allowed to claim as part of their numbers.

http://www.ncnw.org/events/reunion.htm
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/09/12/the-national-black-family-reunion
http://www.americablog.com/2009/09/my-take-on-teabaggers-very-white-older.html

And this one's a chuckle:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/09/11/for-florida-activists-first-glimpse-of-dc-is-a-letdown/

[Shorebound]

49. Sorry, folks

I was on the Mall yesterday and at the Inauguration in January. I'd say no less than half a million yesterday. It was a little scary, to be honest. I had no idea emotions were running that deep.

[Gormy Cuss]

56. What's your crowd estimation technique?

I ask because I've been in a crowd of 90,000 (outdoor music festival) that felt much bigger than Hatch Shell crowds on the 4th of July(typically 200,000-300,000.) It's not as easy as it seems.

[1Hippiechick]

69. I'd be ineterested in the answer to that myself.

How could poster be that far off when media is now reporting about 1/8 that size....just askin'.....

[Shorebound]

89. Estimate

If the crowd estimates from the Inauguration are accurate, and I have no reason to believe they aren't, there were more than a million people packed between the Capitol and the Washington Monument that day. I was among them, did some walking around before the crowd got so thick I had to rejoin my family or be separated from them for the duration. (Where we were, on the south side of the Mall below the American Indian Museum, people were packed so tightly we couldn't move during the ceremonies. Great crowd BTW. We were all friends, at least for a day!)

The crowd yesterday wasn't that thick, but as I walked the Mall I had to say it was about half the Inauguration "density." Sorry, can't think of the right word right now. They pretty much covered the Mall from the reflecting pool in front of the Capitol to the WashMon, but not cheek by jowl the way we were in January. I didn't go beyond the WashMon, but I could see other people moving around below it. Not sure if they were part of the protest or not, although some appeared to have signs. I left. It felt, I dunno, uncomfortable.

As for how the media arrived at their estimates, I guess you'd have to ask them. I know they didn't jibe with my observations.

[1Hippiechick]

94. Confused...wonder about this pix.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6534919&mesg_id=6534919

[Shorebound]

98. Time stamp

I saw that photo further up this thread and asked the poster about the time stamp in the upper right corner because I wanted to send it to some friends. It looks like 12:56 pm PT (Pacific Time) but I can't be sure on this monitor. If it is Pacific Time, then it's only 9:56 a.m. Eastern Time, which is several hours before I walked through there shortly after noon.

Edited to add: Thanks to Hansel above, I am corrected. Assuming the time stamp is 12:56 pm PT, then it was 3:56 pm ET when the photo was taken. That would be several hours after I went through there.

[myrna minx]

136. How are you drawing your 1/2 million conclusion?

David Schulster stated that whenever crowds only make it to 3rd street, there's no more that 30, 000 people. Also, considering freepers are spamming the internet with false photos of their event tells me it was a total humiliating flop. This event had non stop promotion by Beck and Fox news for 6 months - and they could only muster about 30, 000 "people" to attend.

President Obama attracted 20,000 people to see him speak with only three day's notice - here in the Twin Cities.

Emotions are running deep with the racist Dixiecrat party (formerly known as the GOP) but not for the majority of the nation - who are rational. :hi:

[Doctor_J]

139. why would someone go to both?

one was a celebration of a rebirth of a nation. The second was a celebration of ignorance and hate

[Frank Cannon]

51. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if it were a million or more.

Given that there are 300 million people in this country, and 10% of them are racist, superstitious, willfully ignorant, evil fucksticks, it wouldn't surprise me if 5% of that group the wherewithal to show up for this shindig to tell "n***er jokes" with their friends. Nor does it impress me.

So this gathering was about "taxes"? Please. Where the fuck were these people when their moron President was spending money like a drunken sailor for eight goddam years?

[JHB]

52. Where were they?

They were complaining that he was spending "like a drunken Democrat" and calling Bush "liberal". But marching in protest? No.

[krister]

53. ABC is just another arm of the liberal media.

The Teabaggers were nice and quoted them as saying the actual numbers because they are so nice and wanted to save ABC some credibility.

[Umbral]

54. So they managed to lie themselves into still more news coverage, slimy fuks. nt

[hmorehead]

55. Maybe they were counting all thier

personal manifestations, imaginary friends and the baby Jebus, too

[Zambero]

57. Event hypester Glenn Beck couldn't be bothered to show up

Perhaps he needed to go back in for more emergency butt surgery? Oh, did he ever whine and wail about how he'd been "mistreated" during that "traumatic" hospital ordeal!

[Apollo11]

121. Not just a cry-baby and attention-seeking nut-job. Also a total hypocrite!

If I was a dumb Glenn Beck fan who made the trip to take part in the "9-12 project" I would expect as an absolute minimum - that my hero would say a few words and thank me for turning out.

It's bad enough that Beck has alienated all his advertisers, without dumping all over his most loyal viewers who hang on his every word and worship his sorry ass. :sarcasm:

[zbdent]

59. and remember, ABC's usually on the Righties's side ... so you have to figure that the 50k-60k is

rounded up by a few dozen thousand ...

[AlbertCat]

67. C'mon! We all knew before the event even happened

that they'd overestimate the crowd so they could claim it a big success.

[lonestarnot]

80. Shameless fuckers. How many march against the occupations and how many times?

[marshall]

82. I imagine news agencies are constantly being misquoted

On stage, on the internet, in mail correspondence. You name it.

[Algorem]

93. George Stephadopolopolous told Charlie Gibson after the speech that

Joe Wilson's outburst showed that the Republicans are "fearless".

I saw the ABC report last night I think,and they sure spent about 20 times as much time on it than the did all the war protests combined.They seemed to talk to like 10 of the moe rons.One took quite a while to think of the word "communism" as what he was there for to be against.

[Hansel]

103. That's interesting. Because it looked more like "fearful"

the same emotions they have been generating and living with since 9/11 to the extreme, and long before that as a rule.

What a moronic interpretation of the text, George.

[colsohlibgal]

95. Corporate Media Bias

Bias without a doubt, oh yeah, there was a huge crowd protesting the inauguration of what they (correctly) saw as an illegitimate president who in actuality lost the 2000 election - and the networks went out of there way to not show it or represent it accurately. This has happened time and again, with anti war rallies and any gathering/protest promoting a contrary world view.

however if 40 insane tea baggers or birthers or whatevers get together it gets overblown coverage and exposure.

Welcome to "1984" in 2009.

[SlingBlade]

101. It wouldn't matter if ABC was involved or not

These people live a lie, They eat sleep and breath lies. Like anti-mater whenever truth comes into
contact with these simpletons it is destroyed

[Hansel]

102. Another example of how isolated and out of touch these people are

If I was in that crowd and someone tried to tell me it was a million to 1.5 million strong I think I could pick up right away that they were full of it. These people bought it hook, line and sinker because they have no ability to analyze and no real experience outside of their little closed minded community.

Yeah, when you come from towns of 100 people (clearly an exaggeration but we can both play this game) then tens of thousands of people seems like a million. But people who really observe the world would know that if there a consistently a foot to several feet of distance between everyone that it would be impossible for there to be a million people on that mall.

Of course, these are the same silly little fool who think that just because everyone they associate with feels like they do that they are a majority of the country.

[FreedomRain]

105. Estimates are a tricky business

At the October 27, 2007 anti war march in Los Angeles, The LA times reported 700 people. 700 from the police department, maybe. I had estimated 7,000; the organizer later claimed almost 10,000.

[LiberalLovinLug]

112. How far do we stoop to their level?

They tell lies all the time. Liberals believe deep down that the truth will eventually "set them free", and exonerate them and defeat any lies. But what if the MSM doesn't play along? ie. doesn't do their job? Just look at the crimes of the Bush administration going unpunished. In the healthcare debate there is no vigorous debunking of outrageous myths, they take any statement as 'fair' and give waaaaaaaay to much respect to the liers. Always a he said she said position. Never any real investigative journalism and challenge to the liers. The US is rapidly slipping into fascism, they use any means they want, no morals, scaring grandmothers, fanning racism, socialism, etc..with lies lies and more lies.

The Dems are handcuffed by what we thought would eventually win the day....truth.

And even if the Dems wanted to counter the rhetoric, calling them facsists, and started talking like Nadar, or Chomsky, they'd be smirked and sneered off the screen by Wolf Blitzer et all. But one wonders if that is the only course of action now. If they had the balls that is.

[Mr. Sinister]

114. 60K or 60 million

What does it matter? How often have progressives mobilized people in to the streets to protest the war, racism, health-care etc and our efforts have been routinely ignored? Enjoy the receiving end right wing! We live in a representative not a direct democracy and unless you can translate your little gathering to numbers at the polls, all you have is a festive day outside and the condescending jeers of your opponents. What goes around....

[and-justice-for-all]

115. That is more than an exaggeration, that is just LYING..nt

[greyghost]

117. I've lived in DC for...

22 years, there will be a bigger crowd at Fed Ex Field for the Redskins home opener.

[Cha]

118. Liars march in DC..get Busted for Lying.

How's that fake bomb threat lie going for ya, liars?

[kittykitty]

119. This is what 1.2 million looks like 4/2004 Women's March on Washington

[24601]

120. Maybe Louis Farrakhan did their counting. n/t

[undergroundnomore]

123. perhaps

they counted every person who walked by, who stopped and gawked, who tried to walk to one of the nearby museums, stopped to eat at one of the carts that line the mall, or waited for one of the metro buses that stop at the Botanical Gardens near the capital.

Then they multiplied that number by 1,000. Then again why wouldn't the right lie about how many people showed? Maybe the truth will come up and bite them one day. Then again they wouldn't know what it was then either.

[recoveringrepublican]

125. facebooked. NT

[BrklynLiberal]

126. 2 million????!!!! What a joke.. Just another outrageous lie by the RWingnuts

[WePurrsevere]

132. They're obviously delusional and, like BushCo, believe

that if you tell a lie enough times it makes it true. :eyes: They're spreading these BS numbers all over the place and no amount of FACTS and figures is stopping them. :grr:

[BrklynLiberal]

135. YEs. That is their tried and true strategy.

Sometimes I feel like the top of my head is going to blow off when I hear these jaw-dropping lies...and then see that there are those out there that appear to believe. One can only surmise that those "believers" have nothing inside their heads with which to see how incredibly assinine they are being.

And you are on the money when stating that this has been going on since the pres shit-for-brains was given the presidency by the Supreme Court. Actually..it had going on even before the beginning of the campaign of 1999..

[WePurrsevere]

140. Certainly I think I can understand the top of

head blowing off.. the utter stupidity and audacity of the lies still amazes me at times. Their reality train has completely jumped off the tracks and into the valley below.

I guess they figure if they throw out enough yit sooner or later something will stick. It's been going on for a very long time.. certainly many here can recall how they threw everything and the kitchen sink at the Clintons. The only thing they finally got Bill Clinton on was lying about an affair... pathetic.

Dems may be the "feral cat" party ;) but at least we don't automatically buy everything our political leaders tell us without any thought. The Republicans used to mock us for being intellectuals but even years later we're still the party of caring and brains to their bullying & brainless bravado.

[LynneSin]

129. Rule of thumb when it comes to crowd estimates and what the media reports

Whatever they say for progressive protesters - multiply it by 4.

Whatever they say for conservative nutjobs - divide it by 10

If they said 1 to 1.5 million protesters perhaps tops they got about 100-150k. And remember that the media will also include all the anti-protesters, police, media reporters and passerbys in that count too.

[Lagomorph]

130. Here ya go, count them yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPud1TeubM

I got no idea, personally. I've heard estimates all over the integer scale.

[smitty]

133. Maybe we should stop worrying about the size of that rally and

concentrate on organizing one of our own.

[Doctor_J]

138. well, they were close

60,000 - 1,200,000. what the difference?

Fucking liars. When can we start the revolution?

[Tx4obama]

141. Politifact.com has put up a debunking story w/ Pants on Fire

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/sep/14/tea-party-photo-shows-large-crowd-different-event/

[Sheltiemama]

142. A woman I know went to D.C.

She's a Facebook friend, too, and she posted the 1 to 1.5 million number when she returned home last night. She's what we in the South call "very well-off." In other words, she has health insurance.