Nuclear plant guards may get machine guns

[bananas]

Source: The Journal News, a Gannett Co. Inc. newspaper

BUCHANAN - Federal regulators are taking steps to allow nuclear plant security guards to carry machine guns and sawed-off shotguns, a step that even some industry opponents support as a way to match the firepower of potential terrorists.

"It's my belief that an upgrade of this kind is long overdue," said Edwin Lyman, a global security expert with the Union of Concerned Scientists in Washington, D.C.

"There's not a ban on semi-automatic weapons anymore, so that's what's out there, not just for terrorists but for the guy on the street," he said. "Security officers need more firepower."

Indian Point officials have not decided if they will add "enhanced weapons," which the Nuclear Regulatory Commission calls the machine guns, short-barreled shotguns or short-barreled rifles, but will review their alternatives when the regulations are finalized.

<snip>

Read more: http://www.lohud.com/article/2009909130338

[Chef Eric]

1. Forget machine guns. Give the guards nuclear weapons.

Oh wait, then we'd need guards to guard the guards.

[Robb]

15. I smell job creation!! nt

[Blandocyte]

2. Security guard pay sucks, but

it'd be fun to tote around a mosheen gun.

[pattmarty]

3. Well, all I'm gonna say is they better train, pay better, and get a hell..........

.........of a lot better quality than the "rent a cop" versions they have now. Can you imagine putting automatic weapons in the hands of some of those retards???

[Chef Eric]

4. You're right about that. Rent-a-cops with machine guns would ATTRACT terrorists. nt

[pattmarty]

10. Yeah, you're right. Just so they could steal the "machine guns".

[Pavulon]

23. Like the local police? We are talking M4s and the like.

not bradleys or crew served weapons.

[pattmarty]

25. I am not in favor of the local police having automatic weapons either.

[Pavulon]

26. Why? Police have to deal with armed people and automatic rifles and SMGs

provide very specific uses. They dont carry them on patrol.

[pattmarty]

28. LOCAL POLICE. I understand about SWAT.

[Pavulon]

31. SWAT is part of many local departments.

they are made up of volunteers from the local department. Most cities have some type of swat team.

[pattmarty]

34. I'm not going to parse wording here with you. I KNOW SWAT is..............

.............part of many depts. My concern is not allowing patrol officers or detectives to cary around MP5's or other such shit. They already have large caliber semi auto handguns with extra capacity mags and almost all "cars" have a shotgun. What the fuck else you need? I used to live in a suburb of Chgo and around 1980 or so the Winnetka police force wanted to have M-16's. Now the crime rate in Winnetka at that time was oh, I dunno, 2% or some low number. Winnetka is an extremely wealthy suburb just north of Chgo. A lot of this is these pricks like to play with "their toys". That is why it's called a police FORCE. Numbers, my man, they have the numbers especially in the big cities.

[Pavulon]

36. A patrol officer does not carry a MP5 or M4, nor should he. He may carry

a shotgun or semiautomatic rifle in his car. But those are not that common as they are expensive and require qualification time. I have no idea of you knowledge of how swat works and thought you may have been thinking they are a state or county level force of dedicated guys, like FBI HRT.

[Statistical]

47. Hardly. True automatic weapons are very rare outside of hollywood. n/t

[Pavulon]

55. Both Orange and Wake county LEO have M4s and MP5

configured for fully automatic fire. Seen those in training.

[Statistical]

57. Yeah I believe it but I was speaking of criminals. n/t

[Pavulon]

58. Sorry, missed it.

I tend to be a bit slow on monday afternoon.

[dixiegrrrrl]

30. It might interest you to know that my son works as a security

guard, to support his education
I can assure you his IQ is exceptionally high.
He is also a DU member.


Please be aware of the stupidity of stereotyping.

[pattmarty]

35. Jesusfuckingchrist, you're kidding, right?????????

[GreenStormCloud]

50. Why should he be?

When I was in college, long time ago, I took a job as a security guard. It was a sitting post at a gate and I was able to study while I was at the desk.

[old mark]

60. dg, I worked as a security guard at one time - it paid my rent, and kept me fed.

Some people here have very little contact with reality, believe in a cartoon view of the world.

mark

[Ian David]

5. But no sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads. n/t

[raystorm7]

6. I feel safer already *Rolls Eyes*

[Altoid_Cyclist]

7. I had a chance to become a guard at the CT. Yankee plant near Middletown, CT.

Now this was back in the 80's, but the CT. Employment office called me one morning just as I was going to bed after working 16 hours. They said all that I had to do was show up in 30 minutes and that they would hire me. Talk about rigorous background checks! I turned it down because I was so tired but geez.. if I had known that I'd get to carry a machine gun, that might have swayed me. I wonder how much of a background check they do now? It better be a lot more than get here in 30 minutes and you're hired.

[cognoscere]

27. As did I, although I think it was around 90 or 91.

Filled out an application, which included the MMPI. Had an hour and a half interview about weapons training and who I would be willing to kill. On the morning of my drug test I decided I couldn't afford a four dollar an hour pay cut, even if I would make it back up in three years.

[tomm2thumbs]

8. it shows how much planning went into this if this is their 'plan' for security

seems to me when this is how things are done in front of the cameras, it should give us pause for what is going on in these nuclear plants BEHIND the scenes.

are we going to do this with airline pilots now too?

how about we create a foolproof plan instead of planning like fools?

[JonQ]

13. A foolproof plan

has yet to be invented by man.

Fools can be quite ingenious when wrecking other peoples work.

[tomm2thumbs]

19. true, true

[Umbral]

9. The nuclear arms race, will it ever end. nt

[Hubert Flottz]

11. If a frogman had wings he wouldn't bump his ass on the

bottom.

How about some 88mm AA guns to knock down the "crop dusting terra-ists"

[Donkeykick]

12. Remeber the guy that got fired...

for sleeping on the job while guarding a bridge (some big city. can't remember where though.)? It was on CNN I think. Really going to do great while they're asleep, huh.

How about those private embassy guards--having an alcohol party while stark naked. Can you imagine that happening while shooting those machine guns in to the air?

I'll bet that those officials at those plants will have those guards sign release documents. What do you think? :wtf:

[Jkid]

14. Cheapest solution

Get rid of nuclear plants, shut them down. They're sitting ducks.

[Pavulon]

22. Brilliant, wipe out all the cheap power that pulls jobs from socal to here..

5.8 c a KWh. Cant be beat, that is a reactor owned by a public company in operation since the early 70's. They are no more sitting ducks than the chemical production in jersey. Ever hear of bhopal?

[Regret My New Name]

45. Not really, because they would still have to guard the sites...

Isn't most nuclear waste still stored on site at the plants? Also, I doubt it would be cheaper to dismantle the reactors and move all the nuclear waste to a single location...

[Stumbler]

16. Why are we still debating building more of these?

As if the threats of meltdown or terrorist attacks weren't already a NIMBY issue, now the guards we've hired to defend them "need more firepower." WTF?

Do we really need anymore debate into why we should stop building these things instead of Wind and Solar-power options? First, there's no meltdown threat, and that's good for everyone, right? Second, yes, they could be targeted for attack, but the scale and degree of damage caused will be much smaller. Therefore, the very need for guards, not even mentioning those that may "need more firepower," can be debated.

Yet here in MN, we're having debates about whether and when we should build more of these ...things. I thought the science was in, and suggested we find other options than more nuclear power...

[Pavulon]

21. Name one option that can cover hundreds of gigawatts used in the tristate?

none exist other than petro or coal. Everything else can not even cover 1/1000th of that. We export the best reactor technology now to china in the form of the AP1000.

They are asking for m16 based weapons, same as the local police use.

[amandabeech]

24. I like wind, solar and all other renewables.

But they aren't available everywhere 24/7. Nukes, coal and natgas are.

We need to invest in research to get better energy storage solutions and a much better national grid so that we can put renewables to use.

Even then, I think that we will still need nukes and more research on how to dispose of the waste properly or recycle it properly.

And . . . we need to MAKE all the infrastructure HERE, not in China. It's a matter of national security.

[Pavulon]

29. Yep, fixing a windmill is pretty low pay, low skill job. Running a reactor, pays

very well. Lots of guys have that training from Navy. Right now assuming the wind always blew and the son always shined there is no way to provide power to NYC alone, never mind the rest of the area. We make reactors here, far more modern than those operated here, and sell them to china.

Westinghouse employs US workers to make those systems.

[amandabeech]

37. Yes, heavy population concentration on the East Coast,

away from our best wind and solar energy resources is a real problem.

Central U.S. cities like Minneapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City and Dallas could use a considerable amount of wind power in the winter and shoulder seasons. Perhaps the center of the country will be "where it's at" at some point.

[Pavulon]

38. The NE will remain the center of US commerce, followed

by california. We need technology to address that. Large populations will probably increase demand on energy going forward.

[amandabeech]

39. Too bad. I prefer the center of the country, myself.

We do need better technology in energy storage and transport. Right now, there's no way all that North Dakota wind will make it to New York, at least in a direct way.

[Statistical]

48. Variable output can't supply variable demand. n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

51. Wind and solar have problems too.

Solar doesn't work well at night, and sometimes the wind doesn't blow. Nuclear is constant. Furthermore, some counties, like Japan and France, get most of their power from nuke plants. And their safety record is far better than ours.

[FreakinDJ]

17. I got news for you - They already do

[lonestarnot]

18. Rocket launchers too?

[Regret My New Name]

46. and howitzers

[Endangered Specie]

20. Hate to break it to this idiot but semi-auto weapons have been in civilian hands

for the last 100 years, uninterrupted.

[greengestalt]

32. Homer Simpson sleeps on the job again

"Heheheeee Clowns are Funny!!!"

And is demoted to guard duty...


But remember, he does have firearm experience, anyone see that episode?

[chrisa]

33. I agree with this.

I'm surprised they don't carry machine guns, or at least SMGs to begin with.

[struggle4progress]

40. Coked-up nuke guards suspended at Indian Point power plant (2008)

Saturday, March 22nd 2008, 1:19 PM

BUCHANAN, N.Y. - Two Indian Point nuclear power plant security guards have been suspended for coming to work with cocaine in their systems, a spokesman for the plant's owner said ... One guard was tested for drugs after leaving her post unexpectedly and failing to respond when commanders radioed her Wednesday; she was found sick in a bathroom, Steets said ... http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/03/22/2008-03-22_cokedup_nuke_guards_suspended_at_indian_.html

[struggle4progress]

41. The Yawn Patrol (2007)

... One of the four resident inspectors employed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and stationed at Indian Point—which satisfies as much as 40 percent of New York City’s energy needs—came cross the sleeping guard and talked to him, getting louder and louder for two straight minutes before finally waking him up ...

In July of 2002, another guard at Indian Point was found “inattentive” (the term used by government investigators to describe dozing.) But the NRC did not issue a violation because there was no terrorist attack on the plant as a result, according to a Congressional audit. The same audit found that nationwide, the NRC tended not to issue formal citations and to minimize the significance of problems it found if the problems did not cause actual damage ...

In February 2007, the Patriot-News in Harrisburg, Penn., reported on exhaustion of security officers working too much overtime at Three Mile Island (the scene of the infamous March 1979 accident that resulted in a partial core meltdown but no deaths or injuries). According to documents obtained by the newspaper, some guards have been working 13-hour shifts up to six days a week for more than six straight weeks. Last year, the paper reported that veteran officers were showing incoming guards the best places to sleep undetected while on duty ...

No one knows why the number of sleeping guards appears to be higher in the nuclear security arena than it is in other, similar, professions ...

http://www.nypress.com/article-17504-the-yawn-patrol.html

[struggle4progress]

42. Three Mile Island guard playing video game fails to see inspector (2006)

Updated 5/29/2006 4:40 PM ET E-mail | Save | Print |
By Deborah Yao, The Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA — A security guard at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant was so absorbed in playing a hand-held video game that he failed to see an inspector approach during a surprise inspection, the agency said.

The employee did not violate any rules as guards are allowed to engage in mind-stimulating activities, the state Department of Environmental Protection said ...

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2006-05-29-nuclear-guard-game_x.htm

[struggle4progress]

43. $500K Seized .. At Nuclear Plant (2006)

... the men drove up to the Beaver Valley Power Station in a tractor-trailer on Tuesday night to pick up two large containers of tools for a contractor for whom they worked.

Security guards stopped the men for a routine inspection, but they drove away, police said ...

A state trooper got a warrant to search the vehicle and found .. $504,230 in mostly small bills ...

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/8821721/detail.html

[bananas]

44. Assault on Pelindaba by coordinated paramilitary forces

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x176681

[damntexdem]

49. Will they have armor-piercing bullets ...

that could penetrate nuclear-containment vessels? Just wondering.

I mean, having machine guns is likely a reasonable security precaution.

But so might be giving airplane guards grenades. ;-)

[Statistical]

54. Neither howitzer shells or a jet impact can't penetrate the containment shield.

25 feet of reinforced concrete walls in a dome shape for maximum strength, anchored to a concrete slab 50feet deep. Inside that is a couple feet of steel shielding.

The NRC crashed an F-4 into a concrete block the size and composition of the containment wall. It penetrated 2.5 inches (out of 25").

[Crowman1979]

52. We need energy that doesn't involve a high threat to national security.

[Regret My New Name]

53. Well, if you're relying on anything for your energy, it becomes a target

and it being attacked is a threat is a risk to national security. Of course, I don't think you can use waste to make a dirty bomb, nor cause any sort of freak nuclear explosion from other energy sources. Although, I'm not too sure how likely the latter is.

[Psephos]

56. Sink a few tankers in the Straits of Hormuz and you will bring a maximum threat to national security

You can do that with a couple of Exocets bought on the black market.

Too exotic? Try this homegrown low-tech approach:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327255.900-how-to-shortcircuit-the-us-power-grid.html

There is no shortage of ways to threaten national security by targeting energy supply chains or infrastructure.

[atlgadem]

59. Will they get.....

bullets as well?