Civilian contractor (KBR) shot dead on U.S. base in Iraq

[Bozita]

Source: AP

Sunday, September 13, 2009
Civilian contractor shot dead on U.S. base in Iraq
Associated Press


Baghdad -- A civilian contractor was shot and killed Sunday on an American military base in the Iraqi city of Tikrit and a U.S. soldier has been detained in connection with the incident, the U.S. military said.

The contractor, whose name was being withheld pending notification of next of kin, was shot at 8:30 a.m. at Camp Speicher, the military said in a statement.

Houston-based KBR confirmed in a short statement that the person killed was one of its employees.

"As the Army is leading the investigation of the incident, KBR is not providing further comment at this time," spokeswoman Heather Browne said in an e-mailed statement. "We are of course fully cooperating with the Army on its continued investigation."

Read more: http://www.detnews.com/article/20090913/NATION/909130333/1361/Civilian-contractor-shot-dead-on-U.S.-base-in-Iraq

[Taverner]

1. KBR has blood all over its hands.

I feel for the contractors' family

[Faygo Kid]

11. Love that picture.

Really nice stuff. Congrats.

[GAtransplant]

25. maybe the contractor was involved in the shower executions

from bad electrical work (18th happened recently) or poison water that has been delivered to our troops by KBR "contractors".

[Taverner]

26. But maybe not - I blame KBR the company, not the employee

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. I wish they used the correct term... A Merc was shot dead at a US Base in Iraq

Civilian contractor does not tell the full reality of it. We are hiring Money Soldiers, aka MERCENARIES.

And no, I do not feel that bad for the Mercs... for the family perhaps, but the Mercs? No sympathy. Their bidness model REQUIRES conflict to continue and they are loyal only to one thing: MONEY

And it is high time we call a spade a spade... MERCS are dirty money grubbing "soldiers."

[Hawkowl]

3. Exactly!

No sympathy. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[Pavulon]

19. Blood thirsty bunch..No one has any idea what this guy;s "mos" was.

he could have been a truck driver. Are you aware the navy pays mercenaries to do laundry and paint ships instead of having sailors do that task at some locations?

What makes a "contractor" disposable? Only a combat job, or what? I am confused.

[xynthee]

27. Thank you for being a voice of reason and compassion.

He was probably offered five times what he normally makes in a year to do a six-month tour. And, like most Americans, he probably has a family to support and more debt than he can handle. He may have seen this as his chance to finally dig his way out of the abyss.

Or, he could have just been a money-grubbing, evil dick! We'll find out eventually. I hope everyone who is cheering his death is correct in assuming that!

[alfredo]

32. Either combat or in a support role would qualify as a mercenary. Where

I lived, mercenaries are lower than dogs.

I don't think the people of Fallujah would have treated soldiers as harshly as they treated the Blackwater mercenaries. Soldiers are honor bound, mercenaries are not and will be treated accordingly.

[Pavulon]

38. Dude, they would have dragged either throughout the street

they have and will continue to kill us service members taken prisoner. There is no honor at play in those theaters.

[alfredo]

43. The people of Fallujah had a real gripe with Blackwater mercenaries.

Our soldiers have a real gripe with them too.

The main reason soldiers could stand a better chance:
Soldiers can be ransomed, they have worth.

[Pavulon]

47. They chop heads, there have been no prisoner exchanges

and blackwater is more likely to pay bounty than us gvt.

[alfredo]

50. The head chopping did start happening in ernest until after Abu Ghraib.

[Pavulon]

51. Danny pearl, I can post dated video of him choking on his own blood and screaming

you are off by three years. You are just off.

[alfredo]

58. That was in Afghanistan, I am talking about Iraq.

[Pavulon]

62. Same agenda, like dmv still sucks no matter what state you live in..

alq in iral alq in afganistan both dont do the whole prisoner thing. power drills are really big in iraq. Well before we were ever there.

[alfredo]

63. But was AQI active there at that time?

[Pavulon]

64. where at what time?

no idea what you are talking about. none of these guys take prisoners.

[alfredo]

65. When blackwater was captured and killed. I thought that was just an angry

mob taking out their rage on those mercenaries.

[kelly1mm]

4. The VAST majority of KBR workers are in construction and

engineering in Iraq. Logistical support as it were. Not what one would usually consider mercenaries as they are not armed/trained soldiers engaged in combat operations. No info specific to this incident so it may be you are correct but likely not.

One could argue that by providing logistical support (just like corps of engineers/SEABEES) that they are "mercenaries" as they are getting paid and not under the direct control of the military. If that is your point then you are correct. However, that is not the customary definition and what came to my mind while reading your comment.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Corp of Engineers and Seabees are subject to the UCMJ

these guys are not.

They are getting paid to do what the Corp and the Seabees used to do.

They are Mercs under any definition... even if unarmed.

Sorry I have no patience for the defense of these mercs, and yes their bidness model STILL requires that the conflict continues. They thrive on armed conflict.

[kelly1mm]

13. Mess hall / laundry / mail delivery - mercenaries? From your linked

article

"KBR is the primary support contractor in Iraq, providing troops with essential services, including housing, meals, mail delivery and laundry. "

There ARE mercenaries in Iraq - I am not claiming otherwise. However, I for one will not condemn someone who gets a job working at a mess hall (or other similar job) as a mercenary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Yes, using the VERY STRICT definition of the term under International Law

they ARE MERCS...

It gets a little murky if they were LOCAL they could be considered civilian employees, but KBR is not a local corporation hiring locals

Try to sell that defense somewhere else

[kelly1mm]

21. We will just have to disagree then. In these economic times

I cannot condemn anyone who takes a job working in a mess hall or other similar function (again, an educated guess) in Iraq and when hearing of their deaths write:

"And no, I do not feel that bad for the Mercs... for the family perhaps, but the Mercs? No sympathy. Their bidness model REQUIRES conflict to continue and they are loyal only to one thing: MONEY

And it is high time we call a spade a spade... MERCS are dirty money grubbing "soldiers."


... as you did above. Really, some poor Joe/Jane Schmoo cooking in the mess hall deserves that? Again, we just will have to disagree.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. You do know that those working those mess halls

are not american ... but from India, the Philippines and other places. And they are promised the moon, the sky et al, and treated almost like slaves.

Try to get yourself educated on who does what. Americans do drive the trucks, and work the construction jobs. Those were jobs formerly done by the US Military and very well, thank you.

And no, I have no patience for mercs... at all.

Here is a free hint... those Mercs thrive in conflict, and they need it to grow as a business model.

[TorchTheWitch]

33. under international law they are not mercinaries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary
The Protocol Additional GC 1977 (APGC77) provides the most widely accepted international definition of a mercenary, though not endorsed by some countries, including the United States. The Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts, (Protocol I), 8 June 1977 states:

Art 47. Mercenaries

1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.
2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) is especially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
(d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
(e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
(f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

All the criteria (a - f) must be met, according to the Geneva Convention, for a combatant to be described as a mercenary.


Even this does not go far enough as it allows armed civilian combatants as long as they are citizens of one of the countries involved in the conflict.


By any reasonable definition, a mercinary would be armed and directly involved in hostilities, not merely someone who does the laundry, serving meals or other non-combative support for legitimate military personnel.

[chrisa]

8. I agree.

These aren't soldiers, and many of them have brought unspeakable suffering on Iraqis.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Not only Iraqis, but also US Soldiers

the tricks and other things that these so-called upstanding corporations have done to US Soldiers to make a buck would get them sued out of existence in the US of A... but over there, soldiers going hungry... it is cheaper to feed MREs than actual hot rations, or shoddy electrical work is just fine and dandy.

Of course I am talking of KRR in particular. I can distinguish between the Mercs carrying guns and the ones carrying nail guns... but the goal for their corporate HQs are the same, PROFIT

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. "You signed with mercs" Riddick to Jack in Chronicles of Riddick... and he

wasn't smiling when he said it.

Kyra: Death by Tea cup, now why didn't I think of that. Riddick: I didn't come here to play who's the better killer. Kyra: haven't you heard it's my favourite game? Riddick: I heard you came looking for me. Kyra: I hooked up with some mercs from Lupus 5, promised to teach me the trade and give me a good cut, they slaved me out Riddick! you know what that can do to a 12 year old! Riddick: I told you stay in New Mecca!

Why did you not listen! (pulls out a light fixture and takes off his goggles) I had mercs on my back, I'll always have mercs on my back. I spent 5 years on a frozen heap just to keep them away from you and you sign up with the same fake badges that wanted to cut you up and use you for bait! Kyra: You figured you had my ass covered Riddick: you signed with mercs. . . Kyra: there was noone else around.

[Chulanowa]

28. Exactly my thoughts

"Civilian contractor" you've got to be fucking kidding me.

[earcandle]

30. Yep! And our tax dollars are paying for genocide in 137 countries by 732 mercenary companies... I

got that right off cpan at a congressional hearing.

I thought that would bring this to an end.  The pure exposure,
but that was back in 2006.  So I see we are supporting these
companies
to intentionally keep wars going everywhere, and fuck our
needs. 

That is criminal to say the least.

And Obama guy is the up front criminal in charge as long as he
keeps this going.

[ManiacJoe]

45. The company count seems a little inflated.

[earcandle]

52. I too was shocked when the representative made that statement.

I actually videotape the Eric Prince (Blackwater owner)
session right off the tv but haven't looked at it yet.
Not sure if the comment was on that video or not.  I will have
to look at it some day.  But they said exactly
that, like a complaint.  Like an admonishment.  Maybe it was a
hearing on war supplementals.  But if you comb
through the sessions between Oct 2006 and July 2007 you will
find those comments.  I'll see if I can back them up.

[FarCenter]

5. Sex, drugs?

or one of the other usual things...

Inquiring minds want to know.

[jeffbr]

7. occupational hazard

[Mithreal]

10. Mercenaries, oops contractors, have been allowed to kill our soldiers with impunity.

Very sad for all the families involved.

[Ian David]

14. So?

[Pavulon]

15. Do elaborate on your post?(nt)

[Ian David]

16. Here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SypeZjeOrY4

[Pavulon]

18. Dick Cheney is dead?

I did not understand, sounds like some guy who is cooking or cleaning up shit just got shot.

[Ian David]

22. ...

[Pavulon]

24. Yeah , I was hoping for some response other than fuck that dead guy..

it is funny, this topic seems to motivate normal people to throw out common sense and get all blood thirsty.

[Zywiec]

35. It brings out the best of our peace loving progressives

who, by the way, supposedly abhor torture.

:shrug:

[fascisthunter]

68. don't worry... never as much as the righties...

[Ed76638]

17. woot n/t

I apologize. That message was wholly inappropriate.

[frog92969]

29. It's a start.

:evilgrin:

[The abyss]

31. Laugh Out Loud!

You got to love it.

Nope I don’t hate the dead guy, nope I don’t hate the GI now in the slammer.

However! I do love watching the “machine” come apart little by little.

Thanks for posting!

[BeHereNow]

34. Sounds like a fragging to me. n/t

bhn

[slampoet]

36. Hired by KBR to shoot and kill people but he's still called a "Civilian"

We really need a new term to be used.

Personally i like "Merc"

[mitchum]

37. A mercenary paid a high price for blood money

[Pavulon]

39. Or some dude from bangalore serving chow. (nt)

[mitchum]

40. Nevertheless, he was being paid with my $$$$$$$

So, I guess you could pay me to be all broken up by his death. I'm sure he would understand. A mercenary by another name...

[Pavulon]

42. Well then fuck him..

he deserved to die, and fuck his parents and family too. Look them up and go burn their house down.

[mitchum]

44. "Houston-based KBR confirmed the man killed was one of its employees, 27-year-old Lucas Vinson,,,

from Louisiana"
Well, if one wanted to go and burn down the house of straw
where your strawman dwelled
I imagine it would be pretty easy to find...
but that's not me

However, my tears are still for sale.

[Pavulon]

46. So he is an american, what was his mos. baby raper, mommy murder, or cook

like any person celebrating someone's death without any context of how they lived their life has a problem.

[mitchum]

48. Is your reading comprehension really that terrible?

I never celebrated his death. In fact, I'm willing to mourn him. For a price.
Mercenaries R Us

[Pavulon]

49. Like I said, that is pretty sick

I had a combat mos and cashed checks from the government. Deployed with the full expectation to be involved in combat. So if I shot people thats cool, but a paid cook or plumber is a "merc". If he happened to be a trigger puller maybe I could understand the misplaced drama.

The guy is dead in some unknown incident and the vampires around here are out.

Who do you people thinks authorizes him to be there?

Strange.

[mitchum]

54. Pity that your alleged combat mos didn't pay you those vastly INFLATED rates...

that mercenaries rake in.
Tell me, during your alleged service, when enlisted men were driving the trucks and working in the mess halls
did they pull in 70 to 90 grand of...our tax $$$$$?
War is a racket.

[Pavulon]

55. I drove a truck asshole.

and it in the NG no, other than in bosnia the food and maintenance was done by enlisted men. In bosnia (mid 90's) people other than us enlisted men served food at some locations. Personally i really did not care who was serving food.

HET is still done by us enlisted men.

I allege that any person that values a mans live on his salary and job is a disgusting piece of dog shit stuck to my shoe, allegedly.

[mitchum]

56. Wow, since you don't have any problem with MILITARY PORK...

I assume that you must be still be raking it in. Or maybe you just gleefully swallow and puke up all of that jingoistic horseshit?
War is a racket.

[Pavulon]

57. Not grave dancing. Sorry.

I made the simple statement that no one knows a damn thing about this person and they are celebrating his death. I do ok, but you paid for my college degree. So good for me.

[HET-Tech]

66. If you think the pay is too much...

Then check this out.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f2555ez.pdf

While I was a contractor in Iraq, my company made it a point to ensure that we tryed to take advantage of this. And I did.

As, like most internet forums involving unprofessional arm chair critics, you don't have all the facts as you didn't make any mention of this.

The reason contractors are used so extensively in the two wars is that there aren't enough soldiers, we're an all volunteer military force. Obama's plan is to have the Army to be mainly an infantry fighting force. Gone are the days of the non-Combat MOS.

For the price of paying, training, insuring (life, health etc) and deploying a soilder for a year is more expensive then buying a contractor for a year. And with the contractor (as in my case) you get a highly qualified mechanic who can do the job of 2-3 Army mechanics, whose total experience doesn't even come close to mine. In reality, we're saving the tax payer money.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, that forum is for 2008. The 2009 forum goes to about 91,000.

[mitchum]

69. War is a racket...

but you already know that, don't you?

[HET-Tech]

70. Just imagine...

If you took the time you spent with your 28696 posts and saw the human element from downrange, first hand.

Politic's and scams really don't even matter at that level.

Sure, the scams exist. The whole war is, but there isn't any turning back now.

[mitchum]

72. Ahhh...but those 28696 posts weren't done on the taxpayers' dime(s)...

nor did I try to con people into thinking I was engaged in some type of noble pursuit.
Just a couple of the many ways that you and I are different.

[Art_from_Ark]

41. Doesn't sound like "some dude from Bangalore" to me

"Houston-based KBR confirmed the man killed was one of its employees, 27-year-old Lucas Vinson from Louisiana."

[Vidar]

53. Good. Many happy returns.

[txlx1977]

59. Some of you people make me sick

I am a contractor in Iraq and have been here for 5 years. I applied for my job and got it. As far as I know everyone in the United Sates was and still is allowed to apply for a job. Neither myself nor Lucas are mercs. Lucas was a Client Owned Equipment Specialist. He tracked Government property to ensure that we as the contractor were responsible for it as we are supposed to be. I currently run a warehouse that contains the material that is needed to conduct everyday maintenance. You people are so misinformed of what actually goes on over here it is unbelievable. Most camps have better than average living conditions, the food is better that you think or know, we have pizza hut, burger king, taco bell, subway, green bean coffee and so on. This is all signed off by the military to have over here and they pay for it. As for the shower stuff, i have no comment because no one knows exactly what happened.

As for Lucas, you guys condemning his character, how dare you. As an American who was trying to work and feed his family he should be mourned like any other. Do we get mad when some one has a better job than us or a higher paying job than us in the states, no not really, we just try to attain the same level. If contractors (the kind we are) weren't over here alot more soldiers would be dead. I drove a truck for four months and wasn't even supposed to.....The job needed to be done....I got blown up by 155mm round Dec 8 2004. The military appreciated me doing that so much that I was presented with a plaque.

Most of the military understands why we are here. Stop watching that stupid movie Iraq for Sale and research what you talk about. KBR is just a company and maybe it sucks but the people that work for it are just mostly hard working people trying to do a job that needs to be done. Are there bad apples....yes....are there bad apples in the military...yes....are there bad apples at wal-mart yes...but leave us alone and stop berating the dead.

An american was shot by another american for unknown reasons. More than likely PTSD....that is tragic enough.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchum]

61. Hooray for military pork! It is ab$olutely great

Now, whine and get this one deleted, mercenary.
And that's an order...since I pay your bloated $alary.

[HET-Tech]

67. I agree

Did Lucas work for KBR's CLSS?

I knew a few of those guys while I was at Speicher as a contractor. I left August 17th or so this year. I feel for his family.

I never knew the guy, but on hearing about a death in Tikrit, Iraq, on the KBR side brought back a lot of tastes, smells, sounds and emotions. Some people just don't know. Probably the first American death there in years, the base was always so quiet which is what surprised me the most, unlike JBB which receives incoming about once a week. Which is an improvement from 2-3 times a day back in 2004.

It honestly wasn't about the money, I'd go back for half the money if it came down to it. Politics, home, stock market...none of that stuff mattered, you just did your job and thats what it was all about. Twelve hours a day, seven days a week, outdoors with the Iraq sun all day long. Enlisted, CW, officers, they all appreciated what we did for them. I keep in contact with a few now to offer career advice and direction.

We kept the soldiers off of non-combat MOS jobs, so they could concentrate on their combat/convoy missions and keep Iraq roads safe for Iraqi citizens and other American convoys. More Iraqi's have been killed on their own roads then Americans have from those horrific IED's.

As far as being called a merc...nah...EXPAT's, including KBR weren't even allowed to touch empty shells or ordance, or anything remotely resembling such. No guns, no ammo, not even for the truck drivers. Civilian contractors are just civilian contractors. Unless you get into Xe or Triple Canopy. But again, those security forces are keeping soldiers safe and rested, so the soldiers can do their combat missions with a clear head.

txlx1977, those were the same restaurants we had at Speicher. Are you stationed there currently?

[saigon68]

71. Love it

Did you ever hear of the Rose Petal Parade?