Health Insurance Insider SLAMS Baucus Bill: " An ABSOLUTE GIFT To The Insurance Industry "

[Segami]

Source: ThinkProgress

On the eve of the Senate Finance Committee’s release of its much anticipated health care plan, Wendell Potter — the insurance industry whistle blower and former communications director of health insurance giant Cigna — called the Baucus framework “an absolute gift to the industry.” “And if that is what we see in the legislation, Karen Ignagni will surely get a huge bonus,” Potter said at a briefing for reporters.

The bill establishes a new regulated health insurance exchange and compels every American to purchase qualified health insurance coverage by 2013.

Potter argued that the lax employer requirements would shift the cost and risk of coverage onto the individual and maintained that the bill’s “network of cooperatives” would be unable to compete in today’s concentrated health insurance markets. “The co-ops won’t stand a chance,” he concluded.


Reform must also do more to regulate insurers, who have agreed to accept applicants with pre-existing conditions but are insisting on benefit and rate flexibility. Potter argued that the benefit package standards in the Exchange and the high deductible option for younger beneficiaries would allow insurers to design almost anything that they can sell in the health market place and push the country towards consumer driven health care.


Under the Baucus legislation, private insurer could also charge older individuals up to five times more for coverage. “You’re just using age as a proxy for health status,” Uwe Reinhardt, an economics professor at Princeton University told the New York Times. Reinhardt estimates that “Senator Baucus’s age-rating plan would allow insurers to cover roughly 70 percent of the additional risk they’d take on by being required to accept all comers, regardless of health.”

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/15/potter-baucus/

---

Baucus continues to push the Insurance Industry's demands.

[Ruby the Liberal]

1. Potter needs a bigger voice

This headline should be at the top of the NYT, not buried on Think Progress.

[Segami]

2. Makes you wonder why it isn't.

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. I have no delusions

Like Michael Moore says -- they value advertizers over subscribers.

[Segami]

12. I watched that MM video interview where he references the advertisers over subscribers. He

framed it well.

[Ruby the Liberal]

15. Interesting link to Education as well.

My irony meter was off the charts watching him frame it all.

[prolesunited]

7. No need to wonder

The media furthers the agenda of the corporate infrastructure that supports it. For example, if they banned drug advertising to consumers (which they should since there is a direct correlation between changing the rules that prohibited it and the skyrocketing cost of drugs), look how many advertising dollars both the print and broadcast media would lose.

[wordpix]

82. Baucus' $3 million in campaign contributions '03-'08 is paying off for Big Insurance

Great job, Max! :sarcasm:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...


snip: "As his committee has taken center stage in the battle over health-care reform, Chairman Baucus (D-Mont.) has emerged as a leading recipient of Senate campaign contributions from the hospitals, insurers and other medical interest groups hoping to shape the legislation to their advantage. Health-related companies and their employees gave Baucus's political committees nearly $1.5 million in 2007 and 2008, when he began holding hearings and making preparations for this year's reform debate." snip

"The sector gave nearly $170 million to federal lawmakers in 2007 and 2008, with 54 percent going to Democrats, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks money in politics. The shift in parties was even more pronounced during the first three months of this year, when Democrats collected 60 percent of the $5.4 million donated by health-care companies and their employees, the data show." snip

"But Baucus, a senator from a sparsely populated and conservative Western state who is serving his sixth term, stands out for the rising tide of health-care contributions to his campaign committee, Friends of Max Baucus, and his political-action committee, Glacier PAC. Baucus collected $3 million from the health and insurance sectors from 2003 to 2008, about 20 percent of the total, data show. Less than 10 percent of the money came from Montana." snip more....

[nyc 4 Biden]

34. NYT has been leaning the wrong way for some time now.

I read their paper every day, and am disappointed in their reporting quite frequently.

[Ruby the Liberal]

36. Pick anything in the MSM

This story is on Think Progress and Politico. It is very important and germaine to the debate and deserves a more public airing.

[Jackpine Radical]

67. Psssst--Re: your sig line--

It's "atheist."

[nyc 4 Biden]

79. thanks!

:)

[No Elephants]

88. Agree. The LA Times is not what it used to be, either. Or the Boston Globe, which thte NYT owns. I

think we have to get that they are all owned, controlled and/or managed by the Reich.

[90-percent]

53. Potter

He is indeed speaking wherever they will have him. He was on Bill Moyers and I may be mistaken, but he's also been on 60 Minutes? Could be wrong. Pretty sure he's been on Keith or Rachel. He is certainly making himself available.

-90% Jimmy

[Hissyspit]

69. DU Video Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=371906&mesg_id=371906

[Hissyspit]

73. More Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x371902

[Ruby the Liberal]

84. Thanks! n/t

[prolesunited]

3. The insurance industry wrote Baucus' bill

I expect that from the GOP, but Baucus is a traitor to the Dems. I hope there is an organized effort to oust him.

[TBF]

48. The lobbyists write everything in Washington (or rather their lawyers do) -

you don't have to work long in the powerhouse law firms of Wash to figure that out. Bills go back and forth between the firms and Hill all the time (albeit after hours). I'm sure the industry is tickled that people will now be required to pay for insurance. They couldn't have asked for better terms.

[No Elephants]

89. I think Kennedy and his peeps wrote his bill, though..

[TBF]

95. Yeah, Ted was one of the few good ones.

He will be missed.

[Botany]

4. Max Baucus is a tool for the insurance companies and his work is to kill ....

.... any public option. Look at his gang of six ..... everybody was opposed to the public option.

[Segami]

8. Its no surprise at all. Think of them as the Insurance Industry's trump card, ace in the hole

insurance policy.

[Botany]

9. Baucus wanted to kill the public option

Baucus is working 24/7 for the insurance companies.

[Segami]

10. This story needs to be kicked onto the DU front page.

[kenfrequed]

27. well

It will have to get past the RIP celebrity posts that seem to rise to the surface. I find it interesting that these get so many recommendations. I tend to unrec them unless the person has actually done something for people.

[sabrina 1]

76. And according to Jane Hamsher who is in a position to know

Rahm Emanuel ordered liberal groups like Moveon to 'lay off the Blue Dogs'. And they have. Money talks it seems even when you're a so-called 'liberal group'. I will never donate to any of them again.

The only groups worth donating to are people like the ACLU. The numbers on the side of the people are shrinking. I'd like to hear from these groups why they would take orders like that when the future of this country is at stake. They were running negative ads against people like Baucus, but apparently have been silent since they were ordered to do so.

[mod mom]

21. you got that right-time to remove his chairmanship!

[No Elephants]

90. Wouldn't Reid would be the one to do that?

Of course, if enough Democrats went to Reid and insisted...So far, though, Rockefeller and Burris are the only ones who have a complaint about Baucus's bill.

I emailed Rockefeller yesterday, to encourage him. I am not in his state, so my email may never get looked at, but I did what I could. Maybe I will call his office later today. My Senator and Rep, too.

[kenfrequed]

25. Actually...

Only five out of six are totally and religiously against the public option. The only person on the committee open to it isn't really set on it. So this is what we get for winning an election, a committe that is made up of 50% republicans where two out of three democrats on it are dead set agaisnt the public option.


Would the republicans have given us this when they were in the majority?

[alstephenson]

55. And those six Senators...

represent less than 3% of the US population...

[sandnsea]

6. Good thing it's not the final bill n/t

[Laelth]

11. k&r for the truth. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[grahamhgreen]

13. No PAY OR PUNISH provision. Better to not have a bill.

[Justyce]

80. +1.

[The Hope Mobile]

14. So why is Obama consistently picking people like this to organize

his initiatives? Inquiring minds really want to know. Is he naive enough to think they're going to do what he promised, that he'll find some middle of the road solution, or does he really not care? These guys aren't looking for a middle of the road solution. Their solutions are extremely far right, corporate-friendly in sheep's clothing. We don't need GIFTS to insurance companies, credit card companies, mortgage companies, banksters or any other corporation . . . we, the people, are the ones who need the help after being financially raped by the Bushies for the last 8 years. If they keep taking from the taxpayers to give to the corporations it will all collapse. I realize many/most of us know this already but . . . Bah humbug.

[bluescribbler]

77. Obama didn't "pick people like these".

He simply asked the Congress to pass a bill containing a few specifics, i.e., universal coverage, quality and affordable health insurance, and revenue neutral. He has no say over which committees in the House and Senate get t wirte the bill, nor over who gets to chair the committees. That's the job of the House and Senate leadership.

Why do I have to explain this?

[The Hope Mobile]

86. I'm talking about the people in his administration in general . . . who he did pick. nt

[No Elephants]

91. .....

We have separation of powers. So, Congress is not required to do anything Obama asks. And Obama should not even ask much, IMO. However, we have an overwhelming majority of Democrats in Congress now, and Obama is the current head of the Democratic Party. He and the Democratic Congressional leaders can and do cooperate voluntarily a lot, but not always. And that is about right, IMO.

However, a very old joke in Washington applies to this bill. It's more of a point maker than a joke, but here goes:


Q. What constitutes a quorum in Congress?

A. The President and the chair of the Finance Committee.

[xchrom]

16. i think now that the minute leaders in the democratic party

began talking health care reform -- they meant a subsidy of some sort for the insurance industry.

[ladywnch]

17. this is pretty much what I sais was going to happen.....yeah, we'll cover

everyone but at such a rate and for so little coverage that it will be completely useless. I didn't anticipate the age rating bullshit, but I'm not surprised. Baucus should be run out of town on a rail.....the bastard.

There were many times I could have gotten coverage (a cancer survivor) but it would have cost me about 5 times the going rate and would have excluded just about everything except maybe getting hit by a bus. If Baucus's bill is allowed to go through as it stands now we will end up in worse condition than we are today.......if that was even possible.

[No Elephants]

92. I am so sorry you had cancer. I hope something comes out of Congress that will

be useful to you.

[Uncle Joe]

18. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Segami.

[annabanana]

19. Ugly business... There's nothing there for the people at all.

No cost control, no access to healthcare...

[ChiciB1]

22. Some Keep Saying THIS Isn't A "Done Deal" But What I WANT To

know is this. If it's NOT done deal, and this is the "best" they can come up with for now, how much more WATERED DOWN will it get??

FWIW, and BOTH my daughter and son-in-law are in the health care industry, my daughter is working on her Masters to become a PA, and my son-in-law works in the Emergency room of a pretty big hospital! I get LOTS of input from them and they say our HEALTH CARE SYSTEM needs a COMPLETE OVER-HAUL given what they are seeing day in and day out!! They are just reaching 40 and are really fed up, not only that the same "load outs" come into the ER all the time with the same problems, mostly drugs, etc., but also knowing that they can't give the "best" health care to even the good ones who come in without health insurance! It should be NO secret to anyone that if you go to the ER without insurance, you will get "band aid care" for the most part for run-of-the-mill problems, but those with insurance get "good" care!

THIS can't be what "we the people" will settle for, but then again it doesn't seem like much else is going to happen!

Back to the drawing board is about the BEST I can offer right now! If Obama doesn't get a Health Care Bill with teeth, then why bother? Do you just settle for "something" just to say you DID "something?" My lagging support for him will get even worse if this is what we let go down!

And YES I AM... one of those "Boomer" type "lefties!" And PROUD OF IT!!

[enlightenment]

20. As much as I disapprove of both the major plans being pushed

forward at the moment, I think the final bill will look a bit different than the Baucus plan.

It may pass the Senate, but a different bill will pass the House - so they'll have to come up with a compromise. It won't by anything we really like, since they're starting the process of compromise with two mediocre (or just bad) plans, but it won't be the straight Senate version, either.

This is what happens when you compromise the initial bargaining position. If you ask for a lot more than you know you'll get, you have room to bargain for something closer to what you need. If you start with barely what you need, you'll end up with a lot less.

The one thing that is for certain is that both houses of Congress - and the White House - will pronounce whatever gets signed into law a "Victory" for the people.

[Segami]

23. Its always easier to come down on prices when negotiating than it is asking for more.

The best we can do is take a ' wait and see ' attitude and applaud or yell when the final bill version is released. In the meantime, I think it serves the Democratic party well to identify these DINO's, call them out and expose their republican/corporate positions at every turn. Time to pull the weeds out to make room so that REAL democratic progress can bloom. In the long run, it will make our party more united on issues and stronger governance throughout.

[Vincardog]

30. The best we can do is take a ' wait and see ' attitude'? NO we can put pressure on them now. Call

write and petition your Senator and Congress critter.
Let them know that we want HEALTH CARE REFORM not insurance company gifts.
Wait and see is only going to get it rammed in your a$$ further and faster

[Segami]

31. No, what I was trying to say is wait and see what kind of industry bullshit Baucus's final

health care plan entails. I agree, keep the pressure on BIG TIME with your Senators and Congress critters and keep calling these industry shills out!

[Hannah Bell]

32. lol.

[grahamhgreen]

43. What worries me about 'wait and see' is that obscurity allows mis-direction. Clarity prevents fraud.

[ChiciB1]

24. I Beg To Differ... JMHO!! What's On The Table Might Just Get WORSE!! n/t

[enlightenment]

35. I agree.

But I support single-payer, nationalized, government run health CARE - so mine is one of the tiny voices in the wilderness and I didn't feel like being spit on this morning.

;)

[grahamhgreen]

44. +1 - and yours is not a tiny voice, according to polls, we are the majority!

[grahamhgreen]

39. I am of the opinion that it may best to scuttle these crap bills and go for a simple expansion of

medicare.

I think we may well be being scammed.

[AllyCat]

59. Bargaining 101 was completely ignored for health care reform

[No Elephants]

93. Single payer and universal coverage went off the table during the campaign.

I have no idea why--maybe not to seem too "Socialist" to middle America?


Thank heaven for the Progressive Caucus of the House. And for Senator Rockefeller. And for this issue, Senator Burris, too.

[BootinUp]

26. Can we have a little KY first???

Geebus.

[SandWalker1984]

28. Better to Kill this Bill and Start Over

The Baucus bill, according to this story:

1)accept applicants with pre-existing conditions but the corporations are insisting on benefit and rate flexibility - high premiums for very little coverage, subject to change at their whim

2)Under the Baucus legislation, private insurer could also charge older individuals up to FIVE TIMES more for coverage. This should fall under RICCO as racketeering.

Throw in the mandates for every American to buy insurance from these "legal" strong arm men, and you have a disaster that they are trying to claim is health care reform.

Throw in Republicans wanting to allow the insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines - how long do you think it will take for them to devastate any competition that is less well capitalized than a handful of huge insurance corporations?

Put lipstick on a pig and it is still a pig. This Baucus bill is a pig on steroids.

Everyone here, please email the link to this story to everyone you know.

[grahamhgreen]

45. +1

[AllyCat]

57. +1

[wordpix]

81. +3

[JimWis]

29. I watched a health care hearing on C-span this morning - all

house democrats, supporting the public option. One of the folks on the panel was Wendell Potter. He again emphasized that the Baucus bill was a gift to insurance companies. He said - you might as well title the bill - the private insurance enhancement act - or words to that effect. I don't have the exact phrase at my fingertips - but that was close.

They had two panels made up of a nursing group, small business organization, AMA, AARP and other experts. Two things they all agreed on and stressed in my opinion is - 1. The public option is vital, without it there is not real reform. - 2. The Baucus bill is a piece of shit.

[avaistheone1]

33. I wonder if Obama knows about this.

:sarcasm:

[grahamhgreen]

46. HA!

[MetaTrope]

63. Too busy setting up the new replacement for Guantanamo

[L. Coyote]

37. "Absolute Gift" my full moon, they paid multi-millions for his quid pro quo.

Baucus. The best Dem the Pukes could buy.

2008:
Pharmaceuticals/Health = $852,813
Health Professionals = $851,141
Insurance = $784,185
Lobbyists = $470,774
Hospitals/Nursing Homes = $466,826
Health Services/HMOs = $465,750
59601 HELENA, MT = $49,106

Top Contributors, opensecrets.org

MONEY MAKES OUR LAWS!!

[BootinUp]

38. depressing. nt

[april]

40. check this out ..

http://www.opensecrets.org/


Senator Max Baucus 2003 - 2008

Select cycle and data to include:

* Campaign Cmte Only
* Leadership PAC Profile Only
* Campaign Cmte & Leadership PAC Combined


Top 20 Industries contributing to Campaign Cmte and Leadership PAC
Industry ↓ Total ↓ Indivs ↓ PACs ↓
Securities & Investment $1,013,818 $757,100 $256,718
Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $855,813 $244,464 $611,349
Health Professionals $848,141 $144,641 $703,500
Lawyers/Law Firms $789,804 $527,612 $262,192
Insurance $784,185 $278,385 $505,800
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $481,826 $157,076 $324,750
Health Services/HMOs $479,100 $173,150 $305,950
Real Estate $471,729 $322,429 $149,300
Lobbyists $467,074 $459,649 $7,425
Electric Utilities $459,139 $39,542 $419,597
Commercial Banks $273,480 $103,180 $170,300
Retail Sales $260,550 $42,050 $218,500
Misc Finance $242,700 $180,200 $62,500
Beer, Wine & Liquor $227,171 $69,071 $158,100
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $215,395 $106,395 $109,000
Business Services $214,488 $159,188 $55,300
TV/Movies/Music $191,900 $83,400 $108,500
Computers/Internet $191,142 $44,220 $146,922
Oil & Gas $166,450 $52,950 $113,500
Casinos/Gambling $162,600 $132,600 $30,000

[pleah]

41. K& R

[RufusTFirefly]

42. Great! This is the top story on all the major cable networks!!!

Not.

It's a closed loop, folks. The same people are learning more and more about these frauds, while those who don't know, and often don't want to know, remain ignorant.

[AllyCat]

58. You had me on that one. I couldn't believe they would cover this

Now I know they aren't.

[GreenTea]

47. Slimy Baucus is ceratainly trying to pay the insurance corporations back for all the millions

of dollars they have given to Max Baucus to weaken a much needed health care bill for all, as "more than 17,000 people a day lose their health insurance"!

What a greedy slimy corrupt pile of corporate shit is Baucus!!

[orleans]

49. max the whore. ugh.

"doing it" for the insurance industry.

ick.

[Zorra]

50. The system works! Isn't that exactly what insurance companies paid Max to do?

The phrase "Corporate America" taken on a whole new meaning lately - as in "The United States of Corporate America".

Industry Cash Flowed To Drafters of Reform
Key Senator Baucus Is a Leading Recipient
By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 21, 2009
snip--
"Most people there had an agenda; they wanted the ear of a senator, and they got it," said Aaron Roland, a San Francisco health-care activist who paid half price to attend the gathering. "Money gets you in the door. The only thing the other side can do is march around and protest outside."

As his committee has taken center stage in the battle over health-care reform, Chairman Baucus (D-Mont.) has emerged as a leading recipient of Senate campaign contributions from the hospitals, insurers and other medical interest groups hoping to shape the legislation to their advantage. Health-related companies and their employees gave Baucus's political committees nearly $1.5 million in 2007 and 2008, when he began holding hearings and making preparations for this year's reform debate.
snip---
Many of these contributions have been focused on Baucus, Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) and other senators in the moderate camps of their respective parties, whose votes could prove crucial in a final health-care reform deal, as well as the leaders of five key committees leading the debate. Grassley, the Finance Committee's ranking Republican, received more than $2 million from the health and insurance sectors since 2003. House Ways and Means Chairman Charles B. Rangel (D-N.Y.) took in $1.6 million from the health sector and its employees over the past two years; ranking Republican Dave Camp (Mich.) received nearly $1 million.

But Baucus, a senator from a sparsely populated and conservative Western state who is serving his sixth term, stands out for the rising tide of health-care contributions to his campaign committee, Friends of Max Baucus, and his political-action committee, Glacier PAC. Baucus collected $3 million from the health and insurance sectors from 2003 to 2008, about 20 percent of the total, data show. Less than 10 percent of the money came from Montana.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/20/AR2009072003363.html

Our system is corrupt beyond repair - and to make a bad situation worse, the fascist members of SCOTUS may soon ease or remove restrictions on campaign financing.

[wroberts189]

51. "rate flexibility" = We charge a person as high as we want. nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

52. Congress making sure their corporate masters are happy.

[humbled_opinion]

54. WHOA Slow down race horses.

You will not force me to purchase anything. I don't see how its possible that Democrats could support such language in a bill a bill that does not even have a government run plan in it. I opt for medicare coverage for me and my family. I certainly am in no position to pay alot for it? what kind of money as percent of discretionary income were they considering? You see this is exactly what happens when the Repukes corrupt the legislation.

I am begining to get turned off on the whole thing lets look at the House Plan.

[IrateCitizen]

72. This is not "Repukes" -- this is all Dems.

Namely, whores for the insurance industry like Senator Baucus.

[humbled_opinion]

85. Well I am sorry but I can't and won't support this and I am

sure Obama won't either so why are they wasting their time.

[AllyCat]

56. I'm in awe how horrible this plan is. I've been defending myself on DU

for 2 days for saying how awful it is. I've been accused of "wanting more people to die to prove my point" by a couple LONGTIME DUers.

[Segami]

62. Well, stay the course AllyCat and don't let some old toothless dogs scare you up a tree. I think

thats just plain silly accusing you of " wanting more people to die to prove your point ". Time you responded like a TomCat to such drivel.

[AllyCat]

65. Thanks Segami. I've not had a response from them with my rebuttal

I'll keep pounding though. :)

[ProudDad]

60. USAmerikan "Health Care"

http://www.gp.org/press/pr-state.php?ID=246

[ProudDad]

61. A lesson in politics. The Kucinich Prediction:

Here's what's going to happen ...

1. House will make a big deal about keeping/putting a public option in HR3200 because it competes with insurance companies and will keep insurance rates low.

2. The White House will refer to the President's speech last week where he spoke favorably of the public option.

3. The Senate will kill the competitive public option in favor of non-competitive "co-ops". Senate leaders like Kent Conrad have said the votes to pass a public option were never there in the Senate.

4. The bill will come to a House-Senate Conference Committee without the public option.

5. House Democrats will be told to support the conference report on the legislation to support the President.

6. The bill will pass, not with a "public option" but with a private mandate requiring 30 million uninsured to buy private health insurance (if one doesn't already have it). If you are broke, you may get a subsidy. If you are not broke, you will get a fine if you do not purchase insurance.

http://healthcare.kucinich.us/petition/


And ProudDad's additions:

7) Just like the car insurance mandate, approximately 20% will dodge it and/or pay the fine and STILL not be covered.

8) The undocumented 12 million persons will be barred from purchasing insurance (way to go numb-nut republicans).

9) The ERs will remain the health care of first resort for these 20-30 million people who are "left out"...25,000 or more people (human beings - men, women and children) will die per year as a result of care delayed or care denied

10) The insurance monopolies will continue to raise premiums at unsustainable levels since they would have a mandate to cover everyone who applies but will still NOT be covered under anti-trust laws.

11) NOTHING will be done to democratize and decentralize the corporate sick care delivery system or to enable more people to afford to become doctors and nurses to improve access and the supply of care.

12) NOTHING will be done to change the perverse disincentives inherent in the tax code and corporate capitalist economy that maintains the current broken system.

13) Finally, after tens of thousands more folks die from the sick care system...we'll be right back where we are now...

Except we'll be much worse off since by then Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission http://www.ombwatch.org/node/10383
will have been decided in the favor of the corporations and the electoral system will be even more bought and sold by the corporations than it is now.


The only REAL hope is to develop local health care delivery systems, STOP BUYING CORPORATE CRAP (starve the beast), build local economies for human support, relocalize, relocalize and relocalize.

www.transitionus.org

[bvar22]

64. +1....with this caveat:

I am not as optimistic as ProudDad.

[glitch]

66. Deserves its own thread. nt

[IrateCitizen]

71. Actually, I disagree with your point #13.

Exploding health care costs from government subsidy of the private insurance industry will contribute to a significant implosion of the economy. Eventually, we will be forced to return to a system of health care in which there are no insurers, and people will have to pay cash for the services they receive. Of course, without a pot of free money for everyone to stick their hands into, prices will probably come back down to levels that people can reasonably afford (albeit concentrating more on annual primary care checkups and less on high-tech sick care).

[ProudDad]

83. You're partly right

This Ponzi scheme laughingly called a "capitalist global economy" will crash in the not too distant future.

There will be pockets of sanity, viable communities that will survive the collapse of the "world as we know it"...

This is one of the movements that if embraced and implemented, might equip YOUR community to survive; www.transitionus.org

As for "money", those communities that survive will replace the money-as-debt ponzi scheme with a steady-state economy that allows goods and services (including health care) to be equitably distributed and managed.

The 200 year old experiment with capitalism is nearly at its (deserved) end...


On Edit: Hmmm, I guess we're saying the same thing...:hi:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

68. I want these guys investigated for "conflicts of interest"..RE: who donates campaigns?

[colsohlibgal]

70. Three Card Monte

It's all starting to seem like a bad dream, we're all being played for suckers, and unfortunately we have tons of them here. The news keeps going from bad to worse all over. Health plan neutered by the likes of corporate stooge Baucus, Obama already gave the drug folks what they wanted, Liz Warren says the banks are playing fast and loose again with the money we gave them and have done zilch with the toxic assets like they were supposed to do. No wonder, the inmates are running the asylum financially.

We need an epidemic of people being unzombieized ASAP. The loonies are relatively few in number, it's the disengaged that are enabling much of this trouble.

[inna]

74. Baucus is a $2.9 million (!) whore of "health" industry

(not to insult sex workers, or anything...)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-kroll/obama-vs-the-lobbyists-a_b_287763.html

The sheer presence of lobbyists cannot be underestimated. Case in point: the legislative battle over health-care reform. As of mid-August, there were six lobbyists trying to influence health-care legislation for every single member of the House or Senate, Bloomberg News reported.

That's 3,300 lobbyists working on a single issue (three times the number of defense lobbyists) with nearly three new lobbyists joining the fray each day. So far this year, $263 million (or more than one million dollars a day) has been shelled out just for lobbying health-related issues, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Industry players have waged war to sway public opinion, spending $75 million on TV ads. Lawmakers up for election in 2010 have already seen $23 million flow into their nascent campaign coffers.

And the biggest spenders in health-care lobbying aren't doling out their largesse to just anyone. Take Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT), the chairman of the influential Senate Finance Committee, leader of the bipartisan "Gang of Six" spearheading the Finance Committee's health-care negotiations, and architect of that committee's much anticipated health-care legislation. He's also one of the top five recipients of health industry-related money in Congress, pocketing $2.9 million in his career. For his 2008 reelection campaign, the unassuming Baucus took in $1.2 million from health industries, $690,050 of which came from health-related political action committees, the most for any Washington politician.

kr+119

[earcandle]

75. Just watched channel CSPAN 24 and saw the public option come to life. Thank the panels for their

intelligence and ability to present viable information that
anybody can understand if they want to try.


how do we grab sessions on cspan to bring here I wonder.  

[Odin2005]

78. Baucus is anal slime.

:puke:

[Generator]

87. This should be kept on the lbn page

until that bill is dead and buried.

[JerseygirlCT]

94. I agree... so K&R nt