San Diego ACORN officials fire worker over video

[masuki bance]

Source: AP

NATIONAL CITY, Calif. — ACORN officials in San Diego have fired an employee caught on video providing advice about human smuggling to a couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute.

David Lagstein, the group's head organizer in San Diego, initially said Thursday that he believed Juan Carlos Vera did his best to deal with a challenging situation and would not be disciplined. But three hours later, Lagstein reversed that decision.

He said he reevaluated the videos posted online in which Vera was secretly filmed answering questions about smuggling people into the U.S. through Tijuana. Lagstein said after further discussion with supervisors and state ACORN officials he decided Vera's conduct was "unacceptable."

Earlier Thursday the House followed the Senate's lead in denying all federal funding for the scandal-tainted community organizing group.

Information from: The San Diego Union-Tribune, www.signonsandiego .com

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jXQqjQMdcBi4wB_jZfzUuOKNrpVQD9APFKE80

---

On edit, more info from- http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/17/bn17acornside-newser/?metro&dsq=16865813#comment-16865813

"...In an afternoon press conference, Lagstein said he believed his employee, Juan Carlos Vera, did his best to deal with a challenging situation, and would not be disciplined.

But two hours later, Lagstein stated he had reevaluated the videos posted online in which Vera was secretly filmed answering questions about smuggling people across the Tijuana border. Lagstein said in his earlier evaluation, he had only found a short, 52-second video, and not a longer seven-minute video. After consulting with supervisors and state ACORN officials, he decided Vera had contradicted his earlier statements and his conduct was "unacceptable."

The recording showed Vera appearing to suggest he could help get people across the border and asking the woman posing as a prostitute how much her services cost.

At the news conference, Lagstein said the organization is "furious" that hidden cameras filmed employees of the community-organizing group, and he called such actions "immoral if not illegal."

He also added that "we accept the imperfections that it exposed."

Vera was at the news conference and he gave an emotional recounting of what happened. He broke into tears at least twice.

He said that English isn't his first language and that he was confused about what was going on. He said he was just trying to help..."

------------------------------

http://www.10news.com/news/20975217/detail.html

"...In a press conference Thursday at ACORN's National City headquarters, Vera said statements he made in the video were taken out of context.

The now-former ACORN worker said he was merely trying to help the pair because he thought they were in danger.

"I never done anything wrong in my life," Vera said. "They destroyed my family.".."

[guardian]

1. Fired? boo hoo

Anyone who enables or condones the sex slave trade of children should be burned at the stake.

[caseymoz]

3. Look at all the videos before you jump to that conclusion, at least. (re-edit)

And be skeptical.

If Juan Carlos felt he had committed a crime, why did he immediately call the police afterward? This suggests that he was humoring a couple of criminals, just to get through the session, to call the police on them afterward. I mean how many times do you think he gets a request like this? And what does he really think of a couple of idiot scumbags who come in to stupidly ask him advice about smuggling kids-- because obviously, he's Mexican and knows exactly how to do it.

Be aware that conservative scumbags edited this. Look at this and how they give their questions in the narration and how he gives his answers on camera. You don't know what questions he was really answering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CMXMC7vba4&feature=related'

I know something about sound. The room-tone of his questions is just wrong. I can't verify this yet. Meaning I wonder if their questions were recorded in a different room than his answers. They went through and dubbed them in later. Maybe they dubbed in the honest to goodness questions they asked, but if they are going to do this, I think doubt about trusting them is called for. What were the exact questions he answered? You don't know. This is such a low down trick, it's obscene. I wanted to throw my monitor against the wall.

Oh, I also like the good taste and class they showed in playing rock music with an attractive, woman slinking on camera. How appropriate! Real conservative class there, shitheads.

And while they were taking the video, they guided the conversation, slowly turning it, frustrating every bit of advice Vera gave, until they came out with something totally outrageous while he was still in the mode of wanting to help them. This is only

If they think he's guilty of this, they need to take him to court. But you know what? They can't win in court.

ACORN is fighting for its existence now due to these scumbags. This won't be the first or last organization being hit like this. If I were an community worker or counselor now, or any kind of civic employee, I would carry a miniature recorder so I have some ammunition to plug these people when they put up a vid. I know its a violation of ethics, but they must protect themselves now. The RWers are totally violating good faith, and coming up with fake charges to attack organizations-- in the media. I would also suggest going to anti-choice meetings and counseling with a hidden camera and posting what these scumbags are actually saying and doing. Yes, I don't like it, but it has got to be stopped, or liberal/progressive organizations are going to be picked off, one at a time.

[masuki bance]

5. Her name is Hanna Giles, 20 years old.

Why do people keep saying that the dialog is made up when the employees themselves don't claim it?

[caseymoz]

8. I thought there was only one employee present.

Sorry, it's early in the morning and I was careless with names.

[masuki bance]

12. Employee/employees- after every one of these videos someone claims that they are faked. nt

[caseymoz]

16. And I think it's absolutely reasonable to do that.

Look, I think investigative work is always good, but I think the procedure used here is amateurish, and questionable in both approach and motive, and probably made just to mislead. Who are these people doing these investigations, and why should I believe them? Oh, maybe because they are white, thank you! As I said, if I were a councilor and discovered that the person I was talking to was going to engage in criminal behavior, within five minutes of the one hour session, would I pretend to be on their side, get as many details as I could, and then call police right afterward? That's arguably what Vera did.

I think they are going in and asking these people to aid them in child trafficking-prostitution-- of all things! just because it is this emotional, and they could even get many liberals on their side about it, and cause us to, without thinking, wreck our own organizations for, and they could keep conservatives' emotions high about it if that plan fails.

Meanwhile, the fact that they are targeting minorities who work for these organizations means a real boon to the neo-Nazi movement.

We're not talking about civic minded people doing this here.

In other words, the stakes are too damn high to make a mistake about this. It bears further investigation, but we shouldn't join the lynch-mob.

Now, if they have discovered actual child-prostitution rings with this approach (going up to a minority in a liberal organization and asking about it) it would be dumb luck.

[masuki bance]

18. None of the other employees, not ACORN itself have claimed that the dialog is fictional. nt

[caseymoz]

26. So, what has been cut out?

Sure, the dialogue they didn't edit out is probably there. I think I was probably wrong about room-tone, though. It was due to who was wearing the mike, not a question on any shoots I was on. But there are jump-cuts all the way through this. I wonder if they cut out anything that would make Vera look good in the least.

But that was a side question. There's too much of an idiot plot here. Say, you're familiar with the world of child trafficking, or you're in on it. A couple you have never met before comes in and asks for help in their trafficking operations, and the fact that you haven't known them for three minutes doesn't make you paranoid.

First, are the depraved people, not knowing anything about you except you're Mexican and work for ACORN in immigration, are they really that dumb? Do they really operate in prostitution without knowing that society objects to it? Do they really have such a bug IQ that they haven't figured out that having a big mouth about their child trafficking operation might be a bad idea? If the answer to these questions are yes, duck because there's about to be a drive-by.

Now, if you're the guy that these people approached, if you actually have any contacts in the underworld, do you tell these idiots about it? Especially when the only reason they had to assume you knew about trafficking children securely would be that you are Mexican? Now, if you're innocent, do you really let these people know you find them disgusting and that you will call the police? Do you end the session suddenly, telegraphing that you might call the police? I'm suspecting that ACORN offices don't have metal detectors-- yet. So you possibly have two depraved criminal idiots who are packing.

Or do you humor them?

There's a very good chance Vera was humoring them, especially when he did call police, immediately after assuring them that he wouldn't.

[masuki bance]

29. Sounds reasonable, the only problem is at the news conference

Juan Carlos Vera gave to the press yesterday he didn't mention that. He lied about his actions and what he said, his supervisor found the longer tape. The supervisor changed his mind after viewing it and announced that the dude was history.

You're a few steps behind the story- these guys planned on using the most implausible, most outrageous, most ridiculous clothes and most over the top scenarios possible, for maximum impact.

Chaos for Glory: My Time With ACORN
by James O'Keefe

A famous community organizer once said, “The only way to upset the power structure in your communities is to goad them, confuse them, irritate them and, most of all, make them live by their own rules. If you make them live by their own rules, you destroy them.” Impossible demands can irritate modern leftists in ways nothing else can, whether it’s by http://www.youtube.com/RUCenturion#play/uploads/11/Qh3WUnFiEJ4">banning Lucky Charms cereal because it’s racist against Irish people, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiFOFUGIhFE">calling Planned Parenthood saying you want to donate money for black abortions in the name of Margaret Sanger, or making Sen. Snowe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4hrnbhIHDY">sign an oversized bailout check for a billion dollars to Amtrak, in her own office.

The scenario we posed the ACORN Housing employees in Baltimore is due to the application of similar power tactics. We gave ACORN a taste of its own medicine. ACORN was alleged to be thug-like, criminal, and nefarious. This criminal behavior was evidenced by a video of Baltimore ACORN community organizers breaking the locks on foreclosed homes. Instead of railing against their radicalism, it is best to bring out this type of radicalism. Hannah Giles and I took advantage of ACORN’s regard for thug criminality by posing the most ridiculous criminal scenario we could think of and seeing if they would comply–which they did without hesitation.

Additionally, instead of focusing on foreclosure itself, which has become seemingly as politicized as abortion, we focused on crimes more difficult for the left to defend: trafficking of young helpless girls and tax evasion. The first group represents the severely disadvantaged, the second a threat to the distribution of wealth.

While manipulation or entrapment occurs when people are encouraged to do things they otherwise wouldn’t, the pre-set trap is their own. These tactics allow the viewer to see ACORN’s soul; their playing field and their morality, out in the open. Their system is based on conflict and change for its own sake. This system is based on totalitarian principles and class war techniques. These people understand pressure, power and self-interest. When the Baltimore employees saw we were shady dealers, their instincts clicked in, as we were prime recruits.

ACORN has ascended. They elect our politicians and receive billions in tax money. Their world is a revolutionary, socialistic, atheistic world, where all means are justifiable. And they create chaos, again, for it’s own sake. It is time for us to be studying and applying their tactics, many of which are ideologically neutral. It is time, as Hannah said as we walked out of the ACORN facility, for conservative activists to “create chaos for glory.”..."

http://biggovernment.com/author/jokeefe/

[guardian]

10. Skepticism cuts both ways

Okay. You say the video might be edited and false. If it is then they will be found out. But what if it isn't? I don't hear even a tinge of disapproval against this Juan Carlos fuck who apparently has no problem with child sex slavery.

Yeah conservative scumbags are bad. But sex slavers are worse. Get your priorities straight.

[caseymoz]

22. Yes, it does. Okay, look at this, part 2 (unedited)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLWlHSBb2cQ

Unedited is unbelievable on its very face. It has "jump-cuts" that any eye could see. That is, one moment you have somebody on the screen, the next moment they are gone, or one moment their head is in one position, the next its in a totally different position with nothing in between. These could be seen by anybody. Not only are the jump-cuts clear to any eye, but these idiots actually left the frame counter in the upper left-hand corner, so you could see how many frames are missing from the count. From this, you know the camera was shooting the frames, so it wasn't very likely a camera malfunction.

There is a jump-cut at 26 seconds. There's a big one at 47 seconds where the entire setting goes from the office to the lobby. There's a third one at 2:54 seconds that happens when Juan Carlos' questioning seems to be about to blow her cover. It was at least getting embarrassing. There's a 4th at 3:16 seconds. There's another one at 4:05. In that one, more than 2,000 frames are missing, 8-10 seconds.

They edited their so-called unedited version, and were too stupid to hide it!

[masuki bance]

31. They didn't load that video or title it. They have their own youtube channel

and their own site with complete transcripts, complete audio and video. Some video they are holding back, they obviously enjoy releasing after someone makes a statement they can contradict with more info.

[guardian]

20. Sex Slavery IS a problem in the US

If you haven't seen it I recommend the documentary "Call+Response". According to the documentary 17,000 people are sold into slavery U.S. every year. I for one take this issue very seriously. Below is an article talking about the film.






'Rockumentary' responds to human slave trade
By: Michael Le Roy
Posted: 5/4/09
Girls sold into slavery will have their hymens re-sewn so they can be repeatedly sold as virgins, according to the documentary titled "Call+Response."

More than 400 students watched "Call+Response," a documentary about the human slave trade, on Tuesday in the Student Union.

The documentary was directed by musician Justin Dillon from the Oakland band Tremolo. The film is in a "rockumentary" format that combines undercover footage revealing the human slave trading industry and music from artists such as Ashley Judd, Matisyahu, Talib Kweli and others.

Maritsa Hernandez, a junior behavioral science major, said people in the U. S. need to do more to combat human slavery.

"I am somewhat disappointed because I didn't know it was this bad," she said. "We as a society need to work together to help these people out."

Dillon said he was first exposed to human slavery while he was in Russia. He said he discovered a number of women were tricked into slavery by men promising a well-paying job abroad.

Wanting to call attention to the problem, Dillon made "Call+Response" with the help of other musicians. Dillon said the film's goal is to help create a modern abolitionist movement.

According to the film, 17,000 people sold into slavery are brought into the U.S. every year and 27 million people in the world are slaves.

"It feels wrong to even call it an issue," Dillon said. "It's human beings selling human beings. You realize 147 years from the Emancipation Proclamation and most of us here in the United States have no idea that there's likely millions of people being traded and sold even here in the states."

Dillon said the slave trade exists not because people are evil, but because of the money that can be made. The film said three women purchased for $1,000 can earn more than $700,000 in one year through prostitution in the U.S.

Many girls who are forced into slavery are used as prostitutes, Dillon said.

He also said that law enforcement and the judicial system do not have the tools to identify when human trafficking is occurring, and that the average age of people forced into prostitution is 13 years old.

"Why aren't we punishing the Johns, why do we punish the prostitutes," Dillon said.

Maria Marquez, a senior psychology major, said she was surprised by the young age of girls sold to be sex slaves. The documentary stated that children are sold into slavery as young as 3 years old in order to insure they don't have HIV.

"It's just hard to visualize a 3-year-old having to do that or being coerced into it," she said.

[caseymoz]

23. I know its a huge problem.

Let me make this clear, anybody who is guilty of sex slavery, human trafficking, child prostitution, or child pornography should get the longest sentences in the worst prisons. This has to be wiped out.

I just don't think this video demonstrates anything, especially when the guy called the police afterward-- after he assured them that he wouldn't. What does that show about what he was telling them? I mean, think about it. Go to a community-based aid organization, and providing you're white, just ask the first minority councilor you get in to see about how you could ship in some children for use as child prostitutes. If the counselor you talk to is not guilty, what would he do? How likely is he to have any respect for you, thinking that because he was a minority, he was in on it? Then, if he happens, by dumb luck, to be actually in on it, how likely is he open that up to the random person asking him? I mean, if it were that easy, we would have busted all of the trafficking rings by now.

If these people caught a guilty person here using this method, they need to buy up as many lottery tickets as they can. As it is, I not only think they're Conservative ideologues, I have suspicions they might be neo-Nazis.

As it is, if you're confronted with a person who states the intent of doing something illegal and morally depraved, do you shout it out to them? If you can't end the session suddenly and get the people into custody before they figure out you've done it, do you really think your actions would have been different from Vera's?

[mrdmk]

35. You have a very interesting link here, do you have another link to back-up your claims?

:shrug:

[Mnpaul]

33. I agree

On the first San Diego video, the audio of the people asking questions sounds completely different from the audio of the guy answering the questions. The echo is consistant on the second video.

[frylock]

28. have you seen the raw, UNEDITED video yet?

or are you just one to presume guilt straight out of the gate?

[Turbineguy]

2. "They destroyed my family."

Welcome to Family Values, Mr. Vera.

[guardian]

4. I can't believe you feel sorry for this fuck

Have you watched the video? This isn't some insane fundie family values shit. This ACORN criminal fuck was happy to help smuggle a dozen minor girls aged 12-15 across the border to be enslaved in a brothel. This same ACORN fuck kept claiming he is a lawyer and couldn't wait to enable this sex slavery trade.

GET A CLUE!!!! There NO excuse for this behavior. NONE NADA ZIP This is not an "imperfection" as the ACORN official claimed. It is a God dammed fucking outrage! And if anyone here at DU supports the sex slavery trade then all is fucking lost.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[FBaggins]

25. Oh come on!

I know I'm the low guy on the post-count totem pole, but you're way over the top on this one.

It's understandable that we get all fired up at the subject area (that's why they picked it - duh)... and I think it's time to kick Acorn to the curb... but it's disingenuous to associate anyone who leap into the "kill Acorn" boat just as it sails with supporting child prostitution.

It's natural for political forum members to assume that anyone who disagrees with them (and has a low post count) must be some kind of a mole/whatever... but you sir appear to go well beyond the reasonable line.

[caseymoz]

19. If you jump to conclusions like that . . .

The guy called the police right after the counseling session. Now, unless police are in on it, too, the man discovered he had a couple of stupid criminals within five minutes, he humored them all the way through it, pretended to support them and gave them bad information, found out as much as he could himself-- and then after they were gone, called the police.

Now, put yourself in his place, and presume you're innocent. You are a counselor who just discovered that your clients are criminals and plan to commit a crime. What would you do? You might call the police on them immediately, in which case, you don't know if they are armed or not (I presume ACORN doesn't have metal detectors). If you throw them right out, and even these dumb criminals might figure out that you are going to call the police.

And these people seem absolutely 100 percent certain that you know something about trafficking children because you're Mexican. How smart are they? How much respect can you have for them? In the evil part of your brain, you know you could trick these racist bastards into telling you everything.

By my book, this guy seems to have done exactly the right and predictable thing, and isn't demonstrated to have anything to do with child trafficking.

[caseymoz]

13. I'm not convinced this guy wasn't humoring them before calling the police.

And he did call the police. Unless they're in on it, too, this guy is innocent.

[marshall]

21. Presumably the man who fired Juan Carlos knows more than us

I think it's fair to give him the benefit of the doubt, and certainly this forum is the place to muse about possible alternative explanations other than what appears to be obvious. But it is very telling that after initially supporting his worker, the boss fired him. No retraining for him, unless it's at a different job.

[caseymoz]

24. If you look at Youtube, though, these people have been doing this to ACORN all over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtTnizEnC1U

This is not about rooting out trafficking, this is a matter of smearing ACORN with the most lowdown and heinous charges possible. With a racist approach. Making charges so disgusting that will stick whether they will go trial or not, and will turn even supporters of ACORN against it.

Do they have any specific reason to do this? Why are they asking about child trafficking and not something else? What led them to investigate that particular charge. One reason might be that they know people will respond emotionally and absolutely to these charges, will jump to conclusions, will be too disgusted to actually scrutinize the video, and that people who show skepticism bring themselves under suspicion of having sympathy for child traffickers.

The man who fired Juan Carlos knows his organization is in a fight for its life now. His motive might be that he thinks Vera is guilty, it might be that he thinks a human sacrifice might save the organization, it could be that he was urged to do it by somebody higher up who has those considerations.

[masuki bance]

30. See post #29

And try google.

[marshall]

32. Conyers calls those higher up people calling the shots "the powers that be"

Who are these people, that not only might be telling some mid management guy in San Diego what to be doing, but are also ordering John Conyers around? This is the stuff that breeds conspiracy theories.

[Turbineguy]

15. Easy there pilgrim,

ACORN did not make the video. The video was made and edited by those who wanted to get ACORN in trouble. They had no interest in making an unbiased documentary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8660466

[notesdev]

34. welcome to the vast right wing conspiracy

Apparently me, you, and everyone else here with a sense of decency and not so far down the rabbit hole to see the evidence in front of our eyes for what it is, is a secret right-winger teabagging racist hater.

So come on along; we've got quite a crowd already, but there's still plenty of space here, under the bus.

[slackmaster]

27. The print edition of the San Diego Union-Tribune quotes that as "They destroy my family"

FWIW

[CJCRANE]

14. The ACORN worker called the police. He acted correctly.

These bizarre scammers are no different to Borat IMO, I don't understand all the respect for them.

[caseymoz]

17. Exactly. Oh, no , they are worse than Borat.

For one thing, they're no joke.