(Muslim) Teen alleges discrimination by Abercrombie & Fitch

[RamboLiberal]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle/AP

A Muslim teenager claims in a federal lawsuit that she was denied a job at an Abercrombie & Fitch clothing store at a Tulsa mall because she wore a head scarf.

In the lawsuit filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Tulsa by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, 17-year-old Samantha Elauf said she applied for a sales position at the Abercrombie Kids store in the Woodland Hills Mall in June 2008. The teen, who wears a hijab in accordance with her religious beliefs, claims the manager told her the head scarf violates the store's "Look Policy."

"These actions constitute discrimination against Ms. Elauf on the basis of religion," the lawsuit states.

A spokeswoman for the New Albany, Ohio-based retailer declined to comment on the lawsuit but said the company has "a strong equal employment opportunity policy, and we accommodate religious beliefs and practices when possible."

An attorney for the EEOC claims the company violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which protects workers from discrimination based upon religion in hiring. The EEOC said the lawsuit was filed after the agency attempted to reach a voluntary settlement.




Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/09/18/national/a070303D94.DTL&tsp=1

---

I'm with the teen on this one.

[babydollhead]

1. my neice worked for Hollister

they discriminate against anyone working there is is above a size 3.

[EFerrari]

50. I'm remembering another A&F discrimination case which iirc

was about size. This isn't their first offense.

[T Wolf]

2. Did they not hire her BECAUSE she was Muslim or because she wanted to wear something that

went against their dress code?

There is a difference.

If I form my own religion that requires me to wear a Yankees uniform or go without a haircut or sing all of my conversations, can I claim religious discrimination?

IMO, actions based on religion have NO PLACE in the workplace or any other public venue.

[Javaman]

7. Huh, last time I checked, Islam is a recognized religion...

However, as much as you want to worship at the altar of the NY Yankees, (and I'm a Yankee fan), that is not a recognized religion.

A&F has a history of being discriminatory in their hiring practices.

[imdjh]

11. Wrong. Being physically handicapped, and wanting to wear your religion (or politics) on your sleeve

are not the same thing.

[Javaman]

15. Do you even know anything about Islam? Wearing a head scarf

is not "wearing religion on their sleeve".

Man, you are colossally ignorant.

[imdjh]

19. The purpose of wearing an outward sign of your religion is social control.

[bc3000]

14. last time I checked the head scarf is not a part of Islamic religion

It is a cultural tradition that perpetuates the belief that women are not equal to men.

I am against forcing western culture and values on societies that aren't ready for them or don't want them. But I am even more against allowing immigrants from other cultures to force their backwards culture on us. Women and minorities fought hard for equal rights in this country and continue this fight today. There is no need to alter our values to accommodate cultures that continue to treat women as second class citizens.

[Javaman]

16. the head scarf is worn as a form of modesty.

That is part of the Islamic faith. Whether you agree with that is a different matter altogether.

[GinaMaria]

18. is A and F the best place for modesty?

I've never shopped there, but I've some of their ads and modest is not a word that would accurately describe them. It is not unusual for retail clothing stores to mandate employees wear their clothes. Employees are usually given a hefty discount on the clothes to do this. If she was required to wear A and F clothing, the head scarf would not help much with modesty. Why would someone who places such a high value on modesty apply for a job at A and F? Fredrick's of Hollywood would be a more modest choice. From A and F's point of view... would they want a symbol of modesty in their store? Seems to go against the brand.

[dflprincess]

31. That's exactly what I thought

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

34. come to Orange County,

home of the arab and persian women in headscarfs also sporting silicon double d's, I always find it hysterical when I see these women - nothing more "modest" than your boobs extending a foot past the end of your nose.

I wonder, are there special muslim female plastic surgeons to cater to their needs, since naturally they can't be exposed in the presence of a strange man... or in pursuit of giant boobies do their husbands make an exception?

The headscarf and bikini is also an interesting combination I have seen in the hedonistic wasteland I call home.

[GinaMaria]

40. bikinis and head scarfs?

:crazy: I'm picturing Glamor Magazine's Glamor Don't column with a picture with the black bar over the eyes! Other Glamor Don'ts.... white socks with sandals, wedding dress with combat boots and pajamas with a suit coat for work. Is it possible that hair is more alluring than boobs? :shrug: Difficult to imagine.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

42. yup,

They were wearing these headscarves made out of bathing suit material that covered their hair and neck and below the neck it was all curves in designer bikinis.

[imdjh]

20. LOL- you said modesty in an A and F thread. Lol!

[JonQ]

26. Not prescribing morning after pills is a part of some christian faiths

whether you agree with that is a different matter. And as such adherents to that faith, who also happen to work as pharmacists, should not be expected to dispense those items they find offensive and should also not be fired for refusing to follow the rules of their employers.

It would be religious discrimination otherwise.

[paulsby]

38. that['s not really the point

the point is that the right of the woman to wear this head scarf does not trump the right of an employer (especially in regards to positions that contact the public) to mandate a DRESS CODE.

A&F, like many businesses (hooters is an extreme example) promotes a certain dress code and look for its employees, who after all are selling FASHION.

and they have ample right to dictate dress codes, as long as the INTENT wasn't religious discrimination, even if said codes might happen to preferentially disfavor certain kinds of religious garb.

[provis99]

52. the hijab has nothing to do with Islam.

In fact, Turkish muslim women are expressly forbidden by law from wearing a hijab, because it is considered culturally backwards, the same way men are forbidden from wearing a fez, because it looks stupid.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

53. So A&F wouldn't hire Sallah?

[w4rma]

56. Then she has no case. Abercrombie & Fitch win. --period, end of discussion-- (nt)

[JonQ]

24. And she's free to wear it

but she's not free to wear it, and work at this place. That is not discrimination. Dress codes are pretty standard in many areas of employment. If you don't want to abide by them, for any reason, you are perfectly free to do so. You just can't also claim a right to that job, as well as a right to refuse to comply with their rules.

[rd_kent]

27. What constitutes a "recognized" religion?

And who gets to be the decider on what is and is not a recognized religion?

It has been said that the only difference between a cult and a religion is the size of the congregation.

[T Wolf]

33. Several missed points in your response. (1) Why should whether a religion is "recognized" or not

matter? Some are more equal than other?

(2) If discrimination results from a status of "being of" a particular "protected class" (age, race, religion, etc.), then it is (or should be) against the law.
On the other hand, if the discrimination is based on behavior, then I believe it should not be illegal. My example of Yankee uniform-wearing or having long hair or singing all my conversations are just that, behaviors. As such, they can be a basis for hiring, etc. Why should some behaviors be protected and others not?

To use an extreme example - should the owner of a pet store be forced to hire someone whose religion mandates animal sacrifice and demands that the adherent carry this out with all animals they encounter? To flip it - a restaurant owner should not be able to discriminate against a vegan who performs their duties on the job. OTOH, if the vegan is required to refuse to serve meat, the owner has the right not to hire them.

By saying that the action of wearing particular clothing cannot preclude one from being hired for a job that requires a different uniform, you are saying it is OK to allow the anti-choice pharmacists not to fill Rxs for contraceptives. That is something most here disagree with.

Again, it comes down to actions vs. statuses.

[Odin2005]

44. That's the logic the fundy pharmacists use to justify refusing to give out contraception.

Not that I don't think A&F are a bunch of assholes, but think about the implications of your arguments.

[paulsby]

37. uum no

1) the 1st amendment clearly protects religous based action in the workplace or a public venue. for example, an employee who wanted to spend their lunch break praying could not be discriminated against and any person has the right to go out in public and spout about their religion. furthermore, the workplace is not a public venue

2) what this case comes down to is does the right of an employer to have a dress code trump the right of an employee to wear religious garb while ON DUTY?

i would say that clearly the employer right trumps the employee right, AS LONG as the dress code wasn't done for the purpose of religious discrimination.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. That could really shake up the 'look' industry as a whole

Years ago as college student, I worked for a Buffalo Department store - first for Arden, then Lancome. This could set the precedent for someone selling cosmetics who doesn't wear them - or someone with really bad skin. Unfortunately - the major cosmetics companies are selling and 'image' a 'look'. Or - rather fortunately - let's face it - women like to feel good about ourselves. For some women - that means gobs of make up.

Thanks for this link - I'm going to watch this case as it unfolds. ;-)

[ShortnFiery]

4. Abercrombie & Fitch is arrogant based on our experience.

Last week we went into one of their outlets where my daughter found ONE "extra small" jacket for $70. I went up to pay for it and they REFUSED to sell it to me. Why? Because, they said that it was a display item. Although there were several of the exact same style and color in Small, Medium, and Large, they refused to change the tag and make one of those the display item. Before I left, I wanted to make sure, "So you can NOT change this tag to one of the other jackets and you are refusing to sell me this item for $70 ... you are refusing my money for this item?" The sales clerk and manager said simply "yes."

That is the last time I even "attempt" to purchase any item from Abercrombie and Fitch. :grr: :nuke:

[Craftsman]

5. Many of these high end clothign stores hire people based on looks

They want their sales people to be their models.

[ShortnFiery]

32. Yes, the two men there looked like they were starving to death ...

skinny men is definitely their fashion trend.

I guess it would ruin their IMAGE to sell the last "extra small." Why, the floor model would LOOK FAT in a "small" display jacket. :wow:

Wow, now I remember those men needed to eat a sandwich or two. :blush:

[XemaSab]

41. Oh, for real

My friend John in college was a "greeter" for them, and boy did he ever look the part. :D

On edit: He wasn't super skinny though... he was beautifully proportioned. :D :D

[Posteritatis]

55. There was a case recently over that...

An A&F store hired a woman who was missing an arm, forbade her from being on the sales floor, and stuck her in the stockroom at all times specifically because of the disability supposedly being unattractive. If I remember correctly she was fired on some vague pretext related to that, sued and won.

[RamboLiberal]

6. Yeah they can so afford not to make a sale

:sarcasm:

Associated Press
09/03/09 8:35 AM EDT

NEW ALBANY, OHIO — Abercrombie & Fitch Co. said Thursday that its sales careened 29 percent in August, worse than expected as shoppers continued to scale back shopping amid the recession.

The 29 percent decline in sales at stores open at least a year was bigger than a decline of 23.9 percent expected by analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters.

The measurement is an important retail performance indicator because it measures growth at existing locations rather than newly opened ones.

For the four weeks that ended Aug. 29, the teen retailer said results in all its divisions were worse than expected.

Sales at stores open at least a year at its eponymous Abercrombie & Fitch chain sank 26 percent, a deeper decline than analyst's expected 22.1 percent drop. The figure slid 26 percent at children's chain abercrombie, 32 percent at Hollister company, and 37 percent at Ruehl, a brand the company plans to shut by the end of the year. Analysts had expected sales at that store to fall 29.6 percent.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/economy/ap/56912507.html

[mrbarber]

36. Because you would mess up their inventory.

Its' not that unheard of, actually, especially if the jacket was sent to the store to be used specifically as a display piece. The store manager's hands would be tied because it's a corporate decision.

[imdjh]

8. I hope A and F fight it and win.

It's not because I harbor animosity towards Islam (which I do), or because I love A and F (I don't). But I think a business has to have a certain amount of freedom to define its brand and its look. Having said that, I would want to know what A and F's history is with headgear. If they allow hats or Yarmulkes, then I'd say they have to allow the scarf.

Does Elizabeth Arden have to hire a woman who has a bad complexion?
Does Jenny Craig have to hire a man who weighs four hundred pounds?
Does a delicatessen have to hire a guy who has ten pounds of nasty looking dreads hanging off his head?
Does a bank have to hire a person with visible prison-type tattoos?
Does a women's bar have to hire male bartenders?

[bc3000]

9. I prefer the French outlook on this... take the scarf off or go look for another job

Employers should not be required to hire people who wish to turn their business into religious displays.

[imdjh]

10. Some Pacific Islanders crucify themselves on Good Friday.

[JonQ]

23. Hopefully not at work

that could present a health concern, blood going everywhere and all.

[Crzyrussell]

13. As long

as other religious headgear isn't worn I don't have a problem with this..

[Nuclear Unicorn]

12. I Don't Shop at

Anorexia & Fitch.

They reinforce unhealthy self-images. Personally, I can wear anything they put out but I refuse to because they obviously seek out a "select" clientele.

Now that they blatantly discriminate I suppose I can reinforce my one woman boycott.

[RaRa]

43. I won't even walk in there

I believe they were actually selling thongs for little girls. As the mother of 3 kids (one's a girl), that did it for me.

[Oerdin]

17. This will get tossed out.

The reason is employers can mandate a dress code at work and wearing a head scarf is not required in Islam plus it might offend costumers. Hell, I'm offended by it because it is a symbol of the enslavement of women. There is a reason why this garbage is banned in countries like France.

[imdjh]

21. The bigger point here is that EEOC should not be prosecuting A and F.

if this woman wants to make a civil case out of this, and roll the dice in court, that's her bet. But EEOC should exercise common sense.

[divineorder]

35. It depends on the job

It's one thing to require a certain look in salespersons and models. But if she was going for a job in housekeeping, or the cafeteria, or giftwrapping, the presence of a head scarf is not an issue, and shouldn't be an issue.

[JonQ]

22. Sorry, got to side with abercrombie on this

even though I hate that store.

They had a dress code, she didn't want to follow it. Tough, find work elsewhere.

Reminds me of that lady who refused to drive a bus with some atheist ad on the side, well ok, you're free to refuse to do that, they're also free not to retain your services since you won't do the job.

[Xithras]

25. They're not discriminating against her religion.

They're discriminating against her clothing. I've known several Muslim women, and none wear a scarf on their heads.

Companies are free to institute dess codes as a qualification for hiring. I've worked at companies that required shirt and ties, for example (which was interesting for a few Muslim employees, since Islam apparently bans men from wearing silk too).

[LeftyMom]

49. There are plenty of non-silk ties to be had.

Nice ones, not cheap looking double knit polyester jobbies like you can pick up at any WalMart or Goodwill. I know quite a few stores that specialize in vegan clothing sell them, since we don't do silk. I'm sure there are probably stores specializing in Islam-compatible clothing that sell nice non-silk ties too, if Muslim men don't wear silk, in addition to all of the special gear for women. I've seen enough very observant Muslim men with nice suits on I'm sure it's a non-issue.

[Dappleganger]

28. Why would any muslim apply for a job at A&F??

They don't wear enough clothes there and it's too damn tight.

JMFDO (just my fuddy-duddy opinion).

[JI7]

46. there are muslims who wear things like mini skirts, strappy tops , bikinis etc

[Fastcars]

29. So....

A girl of Pentecostal faith should be able to force them to hire her and allow the big hair, no make-up, and long skirt?

Or an Amish girl or boy with the ultra-conservative dress and grooming?

[imdjh]

30. I think Amish boys would sell like hotcakes at A and F.

[paulsby]

39. lol golf clap nt

[LynneSin]

45. Sorry, the teen is wrong. This has nothing to do with religion

I've worked at the mall and what it's about is hiring people to help promote the image at your store. Would a cosmetic counter hire someone who refuses to wear makeup? Would a weight loss center hire someone who weights 400lbs?

[proteus_lives]

47. Gotta side with A&F.

They are within their rights.

[NuttyFluffers]

48. A&F just sells fashionable clothing; you can be fashionable with a scarf.

i have no idea why hair blowing in the wind is part of their "dress code" (what a cop out excuse). check out what's going on in hijab chic fashion to know that you *can* be HIGHLY fashion conscious AND be in business appropriate attire.

in fact, at the few retail places i worked, it was repeatedly listed in their handbook for new employees that the dress code for the company is "modest business attire." therefore it'd be ludicrous to justify this as "dress code" violation -- she's already willing to dress the expected way. their argument will therefore leave the company having to delineate in detail what exactly can and cannot be within that style. they don't mandate their retail employees to be half naked, or in shorts and flip-flops selling merch.

besides, almost all businesses, retail and otherwise, favor what would fall under a "modest business attire" aesthetic: long sleeve tees, slacks, button down shirts, polos over henleys, button down flannel over tees or camisoles, trimmed and managed beard/facial hair, etc. and this aesthetic already parallels modern Islamic aesthetics of modesty for the most part. it just adds a scarf in a different way than others use it (instead as a belt, tied at the neck, or over the shoulder, it covers the hair -- OMG scary). ridiculous... the store sells more clothes than midriffs and Daisy Duke shorts, and they certainly don't make their staff wear the same while selling (last staff i saw wore khaki slacks and a polo -- again "modest business attire").

they're missing an opportunity here. there's a lot of observant (and non-observant) people who would rather dress (or need to dress) in a more "modest business casual" style. might as well pick up a person who's been doing it already and likely knows how to mix it up to stay fashionable and fresh.

[LeftyMom]

51. I know more muslimas that dress to the nines than don't.

Apparently looking like you just stepped off a runway in Milan is totally modest as long as you have a (expensive, name brand) scarf artfully arranged on your head, with just enough hair poking out to be daring.

[fujiyama]

54. A&F usually wants their employees to look like Hitler youth

and they've been under fire for their hiring policies before, but I gotta wonder why the hell a Muslim would apply for a job at an A&F in the first place?!

But as the other poster said, there are some strange people in So Cal. Bikinis and hijabs. A strange combination. While I haven't seen it, I'd believe it. I remembering seeing female flight attendants on an Arab airline, where they wore fairly short skirts and a headscarf.

A&F can go fuck itself and I don't think I'd ever step foot in one, but I think workplaces can designate a certain dress code especially in an environment where the place wants to maintain a certain appearance (in this case spoiled WASP teen), and if that means no head scarves...well....