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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:20 PM
Original message
Supreme Court asked to stop 2nd Ohio execution try
Source: (Toledo) Blade

An attorney for an Ohio inmate whose lethal injection failed this week asked the U.S. Supreme Court on Friday to halt an unprecedented second execution attempt, and cited in a separate affidavit the inmate's claims that executioners hit muscle and bone when they tried to find a vein suitable for injection.

Tim Sweeney, an attorney for Romell Broom, also filed lawsuits in federal district court and in the Ohio Supreme Court in Columbus on Friday arguing that a second execution attempt, scheduled for Tuesday, would violate Broom's civil rights. If unsuccessful in achieving clemency for Broom, Sweeney will argue that he shouldn't be executed until a new procedure can be put in place that ensures what happened on Tuesday won't be repeated. And trying again only a week later would be "unconscionable," Sweeney said.

Broom, who told his attorneys he was pricked as many as 18 times on Tuesday as prison staff tried to find a suitable vein, had missed a deadline to become part of an ongoing federal case challenging the constitutionality of Ohio's lethal injection procedure. Sweeney asked the U.S. Supreme Court to halt the second execution attempt so it can review that decision in light of Tuesday's failed attempt.

...

Gov. Ted Strickland granted a one-week reprieve to Broom on Tuesday after execution staff struggled for two hours to find a vein that would not collapse when a saline solution was administered. Roughly an hour after staff began to attempt to find a vein, Broom tried to help them by turning over on his left side, flexing his arm, and opening and closing his fingers in an effort to get a suitable vein to rise.


Read more: http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090918/NEWS24/909189977
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. That is the correct move - SC will have no choice but declare an stay, due to the
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 01:21 PM by Hawkeye-X
'cruel and unusual' punishment provision. It's in Strickland's best interest to commute him to life in prison with no parole.

Easier for him to think about it, than to make him a martyr.

Hawkeye-X
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. In more civilized times in more civilized countries, such as Victorian England...
If they failed to execute you in a reasonable period of time after beginning the process - they didn't get to try again.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Jeez.
I've heard of medical personnel putting patients through the tortures of the damned trying to find a vein from which to draw blood or to give an injection, but this is ridiculous. It gets to the point where you start pitying a convicted vicious killer of a girl. Something wrong when that happens.
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I highly doubt any medical personnel was involved in the process
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
34. Doctors and nurses can't participate for ethical reasons
That's part of the problem. In some states an RN wipes down the injection spot with disinfectant (why?) beforehand, and an MD has to be there to declare him dead, but the actual execution isn't something a doctor or nurse can take part in.
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GodlyDemocrat Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
77. A male and female nurse did here
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Perhaps...
...pelting him with whiffle balls would be faster.
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. The Death Penalty
is barbarism. Gives a 'great' example to the youth of a society that premeditated murder is ok...under certain circumstances.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Murder is unlawfull killing.
This isnt murder. Its technically a homicide. Anything short of executing this person is denial of justice to the murdered girl and her familiy.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I hear prison sucks too
If you want someone to suffer for a crime (obviously the death penalty has a zero rehabilitation rate) why not prolong the suck factor?

The DP only counts if you think an angry god awaits to dispense even greater suckage.
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. NOTHING can do justice to that girl or her family
The death penalty is about revenge. An eye for and eye. Now the State (and all citizens of that State) and indirectly that family has to carry around the weight of being responsible for the deliberate taking of a life themselves. The cycle of violence continues. And the citizens begin to accept that one act of deliberate homicide excuses an act of deliberate homicide on their part. Children growing up in a death penalty society have imprinted on them that is ok to kill another human being....under certain circumstances. Violence begets violence.

Dictionary definition of Murder: "In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder)."

killing for revenge is malice in my books and its definitely with aforethought and deliberation.

and study after study proves that the death penalty is not a deterrent. Criminals never think they will get caught. In midst of that grievous act, that man did not even pause for a second to weight his 'degree of punishment' if he did this and not that during the act.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I guess I disagree...
Its about justice, not revenge.

I dont care if its a deterrent or not.

And the other post is right, it really isnt full justice, but its the best we can do.

If life in prison was so much a tougher penalty then the death penalty as it was suggested here

in this thread, why are death row inmates, most of them anyway, trying like heck to avoid the

death penalty? Youd think they would be lining up for it, eager to receive the "lesser" justice..

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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I see the death penalty as an emotional response that solves nothing
I couldn't disagree more with your post.
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Treo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
51. It ensures the person you kill will never commit a crime again NT
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #51
72. First priority should be KEEPING SOCIETY SAFE
...not appealing to emotion. That's why we oppose the death penalty, and many other countries have thrown it out. Heck, Michigan hasn't had death row since 1846!

Romell Broom's attorneys also argue there's not enough evidence that connects Broom to the murder.
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Treo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Society is permanently safe from the dead guy NT
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Here's some good reading though.
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Treo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #78
80. Thanks, I 'll take a look at it NT
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I assume you support torture then
you know, if you support EXECUTING people.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Execution does not have to be torturous..
to, me inflicting pain and suffering is not the objective. Ending the life is. Heck, from what hear, other than the sting of a needle, lethal injection sounds like a pretty painless way to go. I mean, we do it to our pets dont we?, and its considered "humane"...
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Except it very well might be torture and not "pretty painless"...
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/24/lethal_injections_may_cause_suffocation/

Quote
Lethal injection is the primary method of execution for 37 US states and the federal government, though more than a dozen states have halted or suspended the procedure as a result of legal or ethical questions.


Quote
They concluded that the pancuronium was the only reliably fatal part of the cocktail, meaning the executed may actually have died of suffocation as it paralyzed their lungs.


Quote
"It would sort of be the equivalent of slowly suffocating while being burned alive," Zimmers said in a telephone interview.


And by the way -- which is worse -- pain and suffering or death?
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. Look, people are put to sleep for surgeries by the thousands
every single day. It is odd to me that all of these "executions" are so tough.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
68. Why the scare quotes?
Whether the process of execution is torture or not, we are still killing people!
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Nope. They are being lawfully put to death for crimes
committed.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. I said they're being killed, not murdered. Which they are.
To condemn torture but support killing is just illogical.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Not to me.
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. Sitting in a cell....knowing you will die...waiting for it for weeks...
...that's not torturous?

Do you think torture can only be called torture if it inflicts physical pain?

What if we place a man in a pitch black dirt hole for six months...feeding him by dropping food down a chute...and he goes insane? Have we not tortured him?
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. At least you will know when.
Most of us dont know when we are going to die. Thats kind of toturous too...
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. Sure, if you think about death all the time.
Your comparison seems a little flippant by design.

Knowing there's nothing physically wrong with you and sitting in a cell watching the days and hours go by towards a time then you know you will be killed is somewhat different than living your life knowing that yes, you will die someday...but that day could be many decades away.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. All the more reason to speed up the appeals process..
I have to agree waiting 10+ years to get executed does seem a bit much.
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
60. Wrong place :)
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 05:01 PM by michreject
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. That is usually reserved for the "victim" of the murder,
not the perpetrator.
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
61. Not as intense as the victim
Laying face down, begging for your life while a piece of shit stands over you with a gun aimed at the back of your head.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. please own your statement and don't lay it off on me
but its the best we can do

it may be the "best" that "you" can do -

but I disagree

killing people to prove that murder is wrong is like fucking for virginity.

It isn't going to happen.

If you do not value life, death does not matter.

To have to "live" forever - without freedom or hope of freedom - well, now - that's a different horse of another color.

Force someone to live and listen to themselves - perhaps in solitary confinement - without other people to pick on, push around - boss.

That's maybe a better answer.

Then, perhaps - those who do not value life - will be forced to live their own - knowing that the life(s) that they stole were of merit - value - that they must face their own lonely and ill-begotten existence forever.

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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Ok my apology...
...I dont think capital punishment is supposed to "prove" anything. Its fitting justice for the crime committed. Doesnt have to be cruel, painful, etc, only that the life must be forfeited.
I have no problem making it as painless as possible.

"Force someone to live and listen to themselves - perhaps in solitary confinement - without other people to pick on, push around - boss."

Like the super-max inmates? Nah, If I were a betting man, I would bet the vast majority of
death row inmates would prefer super-max then death. Why? because the death penalty is a greater
punishment.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. For me, justice is not served by taking another life
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 07:05 PM by mvd
Killing is killing. No double standard allowed for me. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree, but be open-minded. I used to support the DP for the worst cases, but went to total opposition.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. same here
I used to support the DP for the worst cases, but went to total opposition.

can't believe I used to think that way - it's like not remembering that I was a smoker many years ago - now it's just foreign to me.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I guess we will..
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 07:23 PM by twitomy
To be sure I have wrestled with the issue in my mind a lot as well.
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. You should listen to this.............
http://soundportraits.org/on-air/witness_to_an_execution/

It's not propaganda. It's realism, as told by the warden and others who work at the prison in Huntsville and put people to death through the clinical/painless lethal injection.

Most telling is how one member of the tie down team, a good ol' Texas boy, was out in his shed working one day when the effects of being involved in 100+ executions hit him. The faces of everyone he helped execute roll across his minds eye like a slideshow that he can't stop. He had to quit his job and struggles with it.
That right there, to me, is enough to shut down the death penalty practice. We're asking innocent people to do this work, and it's fucking them up. It's an evil thing that can destroy the mind of a man like that. Is he just acceptable collateral damage in the pursuit of justice?
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
79. I have too and for a long time I was on the fence about it
The thing that changed my mind was actually kind of strange. I watch the movie The Life of David Gale and it had a deep effect on me.

My only thought is that some of these people who are truly mad should be separate from the other people who are locked up. I'm sure the influence on those who have lesser crimes when they run into these type of people (people who are in prison for murder) are not good.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
81. Go tell it to the men freed by the Innocence Project
Or, go tell it to the family of the guy in Texas who the state admits may have been wrongfully executed.

You are as wrong as you can possibly be.
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excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. the state deserves justice, not the victim's family .nt
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
46. kill someone to appease "the state"? No thanks. n/t
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
30. Who are you to decide what the murdered girls family needs?
It's pure righteous arrogance to make broad statements with absolute certainty about such incredibly complex things.

Some victims families don't want the death penalty. Prosecutors work on them, tell them it's important for "closure." What they don't tell them is the whole process of securing a death penalty sentence and the extra checks and appeals that come with that drag the ordeal out. Healing is delayed for 10+ years while families, convinced that someone's death is what they need to feel good again, wait. They wait for someone to die, hanging onto hate and anger in the meantime.

This is the experience as described by some who've come through it.

Other victims families feel that another death, done in the name of their lost loved one, sullies the memory of their loved one.

and yes, there are some that howl for blood and emerge (10+ years later) from the execution chamber and say that it felt SO good. That it was just what they needed.

But a denial of justice? By who's standards? Yours alone?

The death penalty causes pain and trauma to so many besides the person being put to death. It perpetuates violence.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Well, somebody has to make the call of what "justice" is.
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 08:09 AM by twitomy
And right now that is the State who represents the people. As it stands right now, the people call for the death penalty in those states. If the death penalty satisfies the States need for justice, then I am ok with it. If the state does not call for the death penalty I accept that as well as the people have spoken thru the legislative process. Of course htat does not mean I cant
vote for people who would like to implement the penalty; thats how democacy works. So your more than welcome to take my "arrogance" and the families out of the equation if you like.

Seems to be a lot of people who value life here, and thats noble. So I guess you could all understand why those who come to beleive that life begins at conception would be so voiceferous in their objection to abortion? I chuckle at this because you will see all the arguments flip like a coin.


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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. Ok, but you had said, unequivocably, that it was the victim's family being denied justice...
...the state is another matter.

Politicians, loathe to appear weak, flock to the death penalty. The loudest voices in the debate are the angry, vengeful ones, and politicians fear those voices.

What we need is eduction. If people understood the many levels of harm it causes society they wouldn't be so quick to support it. Instead all they understand is their own outrage over the details of heinous crimes and then latch onto what they think is the tough response.

Democratically elected governments have supported a whole host of wrong-headed policies that were ultimately deemed to be damaging to the fabric of society. Just because the death penalty is being executed (no pun intended) by a democratically elected government hardly makes it right. Nor does it make it "justice."

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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. I was challenged for daring to know
what justice meant to the families of the victim. In most cases, families do want the death penalty and I think that is fair justice. But I "took it off the table" for the sake of this debate since I'm sure in some cases the family doesnt want the death penalty. Please explain to me the "level of harm" done to society when a murderer is put to death? I think there is more harm to the "fabric of society" if justice is not served. Charles Manson comes to mind. Its too bad he still pollutes our society with his interviews, "art", etc...Society would be better off if he were not here.
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. The link I provided to the radio doc is a good glimpse into the "level of harm" it does to society.
check it out.

And how, exactly, are we hurt as a society by Manson still living. He has become a broken down pathetic figure in jail. Seeing him like that doesn't bother me one bit.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. He wasnt up to the job.
But plenty of people are. Policemen and Fireman, etc can also suffer post traumatic strees syndrome, but that doesnt mean the job should no longer be performed. Seems a very weak reason to abolish the death penalty. Got anything better? Manson's continued breathing is a waste of tax payer dollars for starters. He has been given the opportunity to speak his hate from prison, and that is not good for society. How are we hurt by him being dead?
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. The warden mentions other men. And that guy participated in a lot of executions.
The warden mentions an unspecified number of men, tough guys, who he's seen affected by it.

It's not normal, having to kill people, and saying someone just wasn't "up to the job" and comparing it to being a fireman is bizarre.

And you should know that the death penalty costs more than keeping someone in prison. That's an accepted reality.

Focusing in on Manson is futile. It's the death penalty as a whole that you need to be aware of. We aren't hurt by Manson being dead, we're hurt by us killing people we decide we can kill. The entire process is a cancer on the psyche of society. It's cheered by the uneducated and ignorant.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Putting to death people who have earned it
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 06:08 PM by twitomy
is not an easy job, just as killing another person in warfare is not easy. As I said, its a dirty job, but someone has to do it. Appeals never used to take a decade or more to work their way out.
That can be changed. "The entire process is a cancer on the psyche of society" Again, some more cliches with no substance behind it. I stand by my statement that society is beter off with murderers dead than rotting in prison. Come to think of it, rotting in prison for life seems more barbaric than the death penalty.....

"It's cheered by the uneducated and ignorant." Again, here we go name calling again. So the President is bloodthirsty AND uneducated AND ignorant too? Are you a teabagger?
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #67
76. The President is a politician. Being anti-death penalty is a show-stopper for
a presidential hopeful, unfortunately.

And it's not name-calling. It's a demonstrated fact that the more educated people are the more likely they are to be against the death penalty.

Unfortunately, not enough U.S. voters have enough education.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Albeit grisly, a guillotine would be more efficient & humane than our
"hitech" methods.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. How about an OD on Heroin?
No one could consider that cruel and unusual...
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Broom would consider that cruel and unusual...if there was not a dead teenage girl there
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. 10 Reasons to Abolish the Death Penalty
By 2004, 118 countries had abolished the death penalty, in law or practice. An average of three countries abolish the death penalty every year. The worldwide trend towards abolition of the death penalty is reflected in the Africa region, where 24 members of the African Union had abolished the death penalty, in law or practice, by 1 October 2004.(1) Here are ten reasons for the total abolition of this degrading and inhuman punishment:

1 - the death penalty violates the right to life.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) recognises each person’s right to life. Article 4 of the African Charter on Human and Peoples´ Rights (ACHPR) states that "human beings are inviolable. Every human being shall be entitled to respect for his life and the physical and moral integrity of his person." This view is reinforced by the existence of international and regional treaties providing for the abolition of the death penalty, notably the second optional protocol of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations in 1989.

2 - the death penalty is a cruel and inhuman death.

The UDHR categorically states that "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."All forms of execution are inhuman. No government can guarantee a dignified and painless death to condemned prisoners, who also suffer psychological pain in the period between their sentence and execution.

3 - the death penalty has no dissuasive effect.

No scientific study has proved that the death penalty has a more dissuasive effect on crime than other punishments. The most recent investigation into the links of cause and effect between capital punishment and the murder rate, was conducted by the United Nations in 1988 and updated in 2002. It came to the following conclusion: "...it is not prudent to accept the hypothesis that capital punishment deters murder to a marginally greater extent than does the threat and application of the supposedly lesser punishment of life imprisonment."

4 - the death penalty is premeditated murder, demeans the state and makes society more violent.

By executing a person, the state commits a murder and shows the same readiness to use physical violence against its victim as the criminal. Moreover, studies have shown that the murder rate increases immediately after executions. Researchers have suggested that this increase is similar to that caused by other violent public events, such as massacres and assassinations.

5 - the death penalty is discriminatory in its application.

Throughout the world, the death penalty is disproportionately used against disadvantaged people. Some condemned prisoners from the most impoverished social classes would not have been sentenced to death if they were from wealthier sectors of society. In these cases, either the accused are less able to find their way through the maze of the judicial system (because of a lack of knowledge, confidence or financial means), or the system reflects the generally negative attitude of society and the powerful towards them. It has also been proved that certain criminals run a greater risk of being condemned to death if their victims come from higher social classes.

6 - the death penalty denies the capacity of people to mend their ways and become a better person.

Defenders of the death penalty consider that anyone sentenced to death is unable to mend their ways and could re-offend at any time if they are released. However, there are many examples of offenders who have been reintegrated and who have not re-offended. Amnesty International believes that the way to prevent re-offending is to review procedures for conditional release and the psychological monitoring of prisoners during detention, and under no circumstances to increase the number of executions. In addition, the death penalty removes any possibility for the condemned person to repent.

7 - the death penalty cannot provide social stability nor bring peace to the victims.

An execution cannot give the victim his or her life back nor ease the suffering felt by their family. Far from reducing the pain, the length of the trial and the appeal procedure often prolong the family’s suffering.

8 - the death penalty denies the fallibility of human institutions.

The risk of executing innocent people remains indissolubly linked to the use of the death penalty. Since 1973, 116 people condemned to death in the United States have been released after proof of their innocence has been established. Some of them have only just escaped execution, after having passed years on death row. These repeated judicial errors have been especially due to irregularities committed by prosecution or police officers, recourse to doubtful evidence, material information or confessions, or the incompetence of defence lawyers. Other prisoners have been sent to their deaths when serious doubts existed about their guilt.

9 - the death penalty is a collective punishment.

This punishment affects all the family, friends and those sympathising with the condemned person. The close relatives of an executed prisoner, who generally do not have anything to do with the crime, could feel, as a result of the death penalty, the same dreadful sense of loss as the victim’s parents felt at the death of their loved one.

10 - the death penalty goes against the religious and humanist values that are common to all humanity.

Human rights are universal, indivisible and interdependent. They are based on many traditions that can be found in all civilisations. All religions advocate clemency, compassion and forgiveness and it is on these values that Amnesty International bases its opposition to the death penalty.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Nice list, ProudDad
The victims' families issue was one thing I had a problem with, but I realized that there is never really closure even if a family seems vindicated at the time of execution. You also made a good point about the sense of loss.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Its especially amusing when...
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 07:30 PM by twitomy
..some poeple have genuine different viewpoints one party will resort to ad hominem, viscious
attacks when people dont see it their way. I guess our President is "bloodthirsty" as well,
So non-judgemental open-minded of them :sarcasm:
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. I'll question "viewpoints" that have NO basis in fact
that have consistently negative results...

And that the civilized world has all but abolished...

Sick, useless, "viewpoints" such as that must always be strenuously challenged until they're bred out of the society.

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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #41
54. Calling people "Stupid" and "bloodthirtsy",
including the President by extension since he supports the Death Penalty, is not "challenging the facts", and in this case, it could be racist. I have a hard time thinking of any negative results from the execution of Bundy,Gacy,McVeigh,et al. Less carbon footprint to boot.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. I say turn these animals over to the family's of their victims....
then they can decide how "civilized" they want to be.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
A dead teenage girl
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. So the convicted man's death brings her back?
Just asking...
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. I never made that claim, did I?
What an odd question.
Why ask that? Do you think so?
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Nawwwwww
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 12:27 PM by ProudDad
it would just make this mitchum character feel good to kill another human being for no good reason.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. Wow, you got that one deleted also...
one can only assume you were also a snitch
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. What's that supposed to achieve? Do you think that anyone outraged by a heinous killing of a teenage
girl should therefore be in favour of the death penalty?

Otherwise...what? The person doesn't care about the death of the teenage girl and the pain of her family?

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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. "The person doesn't care about the death of the teenage girl"
"and the pain of her family?"


that would be the response of the clueless hypocrite...

And they come out of the woodwork on state murder threads...
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. And those are the ONLY threads in which YOU do show up...
that observation
along with your posting name
begs the question
"Who did your brat kill?"
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Apparently, Broom didn't care about the death of the teenage girl and the pain of her family
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 12:31 PM by mitchum
Frankly, that's enough to tip me over
into not caring about the pain or suffering of Broom.
Sue me.
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. Why not bring him out into a public square, give all the kids the day off school, and
cut his arms and legs off with a rusty saw?

Oh, that might traumatize people seeing it. Better to put him through a clinical and painless injection process and only traumatize prison guards.

It doesn't matter if they deserve to die, we should not be killing them. And it's very altruistic and noble to stand up and announce disgust, outrage, and empathy for victims and families and then cop a tough attitude towards the perp, but it ignores the damage the death penalty causes society.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
55. Why?
There are plenty of other ways to execute him. He raped and killed a teenage girl, he deserves to die. Gas him, hang him, electrocute him. Plenty of options.
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. And we are annointed with that right, and because we're tough we should kill him...
...regardless of any negative effect it has on society.

Yeah, WE TOUGH!
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. I don't think the departure of Mr. Broom from this earth has any negative effect on society.
What does tough have to do with it?
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time_has_come Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Broom is irrelavent. It's the death penalty itself that has a negative effect on society.
And "tough" has plenty to do with it. The more educated people are, the less likely it is they will support the death penalty. Then they're accused of being elitist wimps who care more about killers than victims. It's the "tough" people, those who don't care to learn about the effects of the death penalty on a society, who imagine that their support of the death penalty makes them tough. Tough on crime. Tough on criminals. Just, tough.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. I'm well educated and I support the DP.
For me toughness hasn't nothing to do with it. For many cases it is the outcome that makes the most sense. You shouldn't stereotype people who support or don't support the DP. I've been surprised myself. Both sides run the spectrum.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #65
73. I've found that educating myself ON THE ISSUE
Edited on Sun Sep-20-09 01:27 AM by mvd
helped change me into opposing the DP.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
74. Kill him in such a way that his organs can be harvested.
Then his death can bring life and health to dozens of other people and we get rid of a scumbag at the same time.
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