Witness: Census worker's hanging body naked, bound

[Barack_America]

Source: Associated Press

BIG CREEK, Ky. — A part-time census worker found hanging in a rural Kentucky cemetery was naked, gagged and had his hands and feet bound with duct tape, said an Ohio man who discovered the body two weeks ago.

Jerry Weaver of Fairfield, Ohio, told The Associated Press on Friday that he was among a group of relatives who discovered the body of 51-year-old Bill Sparkman on Sept. 12.

"The only thing he had on was a pair of socks," Weaver said. "And they had duct-taped his hands, his wrists. He had duct tape over his eyes, and they gagged him with a red rag or something.

"And they even had duct tape around his neck. And they had like his identification tag on his neck. They had it duct-taped to the side of his neck, on the right side, almost on his right shoulder."

Weaver said he couldn't tell if the tag was a Census Bureau I.D. He said he didn't get close enough to read it.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jbzG_BlkG2Hfc818EPRRn1bBlP6gD9AULOPG0

---

The LA Times also reported today that "FED" was written across his chest in marker.


Updated OP with a more recent and comprehensive AP story.

[napi21]

1. Well if this is true, we're sure not talking suicide!

I know the Feds want to keep this close to the vest until they know they have a case, but somebody sure had it in for this guy!

[MercutioATC]

4. Don't jump to conclusions!!!

...at least that's what some here have been saying...

[anigbrowl]

10. Don't be an ass. That was before this information came out.

The original details sounded like murder but were too vague to be completely sure about.

[MercutioATC]

12. "Vague"???

Federal employee going door to door found hung in rural eastern Kentucky with "fed" scrawled on his chest...


There was nothing "vague" about the details.

[Igel]

49. And apparently not all of the former details are

actually correct. Once can be crystal clear when it comes to mistakes.

However, few, when saying to wait for all the facts, were arguing for suicide or natural causes. The contention wasn't whether he was killed, but who killed him. And for that, we're still waiting for all the facts. Including, probably, the most important one: Who did it.

[Hansel]

104. And the FBI still being on the case after 2 weeks.

And the fact that the group taking the census stopped doing so out of safety for their employees. And that a law enforcement friend of the victim told the media that he warned him about going door to door in that area.

All of these people knew something that we did not and that something pointed to that this was not a suicide.

Then there is the fact that the guy fought against and conquered cancer right before his body was found.

As you mention, that he had the word FED scrawled on his chest might have been a huge clue that it was not suicide for the less cynical among us.

Nothing in the information coming out about him would lead one to believe he did this himself. Common sense dictates that this guy was murdered even before any of this other information came out.

[maglatinavi]

107. Vague???

You are so right, sure. Are the authorities seemingly trying to mislead the public? Are they involved? Is this the repetition of Birminghan, Alabama? boy, is this super scary...:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Autonomy]

138. We're still not sure why he was killed

That was my take on the "don't jump to conclusions". Some are assuming that he was killed because he was a census worker. It seems reasonable, right? That was his job, he had FED written on him, it happened out in Red Stateville. But there's some speculation whether he stumbled on a large-scale marijuana growing operation, which is prevalent out there.

I've no doubt he was murdered. I will not jump to conclusions why.

[MercutioATC]

142. Fair enough. I was speaking of those not convinced it was a murder.

[Xipe Totec]

11. From a statistical perspective

there is a finite, non zero probability, that the rope spontaneously tied itself into a knot, wrapped itself around his neck, and pulled the body up to hang from the tree.

It is also statistically possible, though improbable, that the marker spontaneously hurled itself to his chest and, by pure chance, wrote the word 'FED' across his chest.

It is also conceivable that, by a fluke of statistical probability, a roll of duct tape materialized out of thin air, and wrapped itself around his wrists and ankles.

We will never know what 'REALLY' happened, but we have to explore all possibilities, however remote...





























:sarcasm: thingie added for the :sarcasm: impaired.... :eyes:

[Divine Discontent]

38. creative

:freak:

[Jackpine Radical]

50. I could readily accept the likelihood of any one or two of those possible events,

but the confluence of all three is beginning to raise some doubts in my mind.

[maglatinavi]

108. doubts????

You are kidding, aren't you?:kick: :banghead:

[Jackpine Radical]

115. Well, really,

hung with his feet touching the ground, wrists & ankles taped, "FED" written on his chest, no particular motive for suicide...well, I know it's stretching things a little to suspect foul play, but ya gotta wonder just how he managed to do all that to himself, and why. But I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation, of course.

[Paladin]

94. Nicely Put. (n/t)

[valerief]

133. Ah, yes, those miracle thingies. nt

[RayOfHope]

43. +1 n/t

[66 dmhlt]

93. Why, this is the PERFECT time to "jump to conclusions"!

If you wait until actual facts show up, you wouldn't be able to skip, hop OR jump to conclusions.

(Do I need to put a "snark" tag on this?)

[maglatinavi]

106. Mercutio

Are you as mercurial as to believe the stupid (suspicious) assesment of the authorities? Or am I reading you wrong???:thumbsdown:

[myrna minx]

2. Oh my god.

:-(

[ezgoingrl]

3. Still it was probably a suicide.

It had nothing to do with the fact he was a census worker, nope not a thing.



:sarcasm:

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Can people with logic rule out suicide FINALLY?

the cops are being very careful for a reason...

Hollering in the woods days before... I guess my suspicions are closer to the truth than I even wanted them to be.

Oh the hollering comes from the report on Countdown.

[Barack_America]

7. Yes. Now I can rule out suicide.

The details now definitively prove that this was murder.

[bertman]

9. Put me on the "ruling out suicide" list, too.

[imdjh]

42. That all depends. Did he rape himself before hanging himself?

[Barack_America]

6. Changed OP to a more recent and detailed AP story.

This is appalling.

[kestrel91316]

8. Well, then it's obviously a suicide. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Oh, and don't forget to CREMATE HIM RIGHT AWAY, and just listen to what our good ol' boy of a medical examiner says.

[maglatinavi]

109. suicide???

Kestrel, you are so ironic and sarcastic... yep, the ol' boy medic will be the one making the ultimate decision as to cause...:sarcasm:

[mzmolly]

13. Well it's a good thing they're not jumping to any conclusions.

:sarcasm:

[Cass]

14. Omg, this poor man. I hope whoever did this is found. nt

[aquart]

70. I hope whoever did this is filletted.

And whoever TOLD him to do it has his guts removed an inch at a time.

I don't believe in torture. Just justice.

[Left coast liberal]

136. Yes, and my heart just bleeds for his kids with all this news coming out

[NeoConsSuck]

15. Curious as to why

this hasn't made mainstream media. There was an article on MSNBC.COM, but I never saw anything on CNN.COM, USATODAY.COM, NYTIMES.COM and a few others.

Any ideas why? Worried about copycats, or just protecting the Glenn Beck followers?

[Barack_America]

16. 1. The authorities have been trying to keep a lid on this

2. I don't think anyone wants to believe that something so horrible has actually happened.

3. This is potentially a political landmine.

[kestrel91316]

18. ......potentially a political landmine, maybe because the perp is

the sheriff's brother, or uncle, or cousin, or maybe related to the mayor AND the DA..........

Heck, maybe the sheriff and the mayor and the DA DID IT.

[NeoConsSuck]

26. Hopefully, the FBI will take an active lead

since they were informed of this lynching as a 'courtesy' by the sheriff.

[rebel with a cause]

57. If it happened in a National Park,

does than not make it a FBI case? :shrug:

[Barack_America]

59. The fact that it's a Federal employee is what gives them jurisdiction here.

And I read in another article that the Clay County Sheriff's dept. is now referring to themselves as "supporting the investigation", so it looks very much like the FBI has officially taken over.

[rebel with a cause]

63. Oh okay.

Thanks.

[No Elephants]

85. A federal employee who appears to have been killed BECAUSE he is a federal employee.

That is how one FBI agent explained it in a TV interview, anyway.

[No Elephants]

86. Please see Reply 85.

[Ineeda]

95. or more likely, the perp is a Michelle Bachman fan. n/t

[kestrel91316]

100. I figure that's a given in addition to being a friend or relative of local LE.

[maglatinavi]

112. Kestrel

you are getting, warmer, warmest, hot! Hurrah!:sarcasm: :yourock:

[peace frog]

20. 4. Friday news dump

Sensing a political powder keg in this story, the latest information is released Friday evening when people are least likely to hear of it.

[Barack_America]

23. Not even. The AP tracked down the original civilian witness.

The authorities did not release this information, just corroborated it off the record.

[No Elephants]

88. Good point.

[Lifelong Protester]

24. I'm with you, NBC had it on nightly news, but no NYT

I think that is weird.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Has nuthing to do with Glenny

hell or Bachmann for that matter

It has all to do with a long history going back to at least the Whiskey Rebellion.

[No Elephants]

82. The killers explained their motives to you?

Sorry, but I think the shit stirrers of today had a lot more to do with this than the Whiskey Rebellion. Niether of us has anything to back up our respectivve opinion, though.

[katkat]

29. NYTimes

The Times now has it on the home page.

[NeoConsSuck]

83. 5:38 AM - EDT

No sign of it on their front page.

[jwirr]

45. At first they did not follow it up because no one was sure if it was

a murder or a suicide because the details were being withheld. Now the question is motive. We are all leaning toward the motive being his job as a census taker. However, Rachel has a good point - this area is very "lawless" and he may have stumbled onto something someone did not want him to see. Remember this is an area where bootleggers used to be rather unfriendly to the feds when they came pocking their noses around. I am going to set back and wait for more details.

[Barack_America]

47. It seems a little too obvious.

I looked through the history yesterday, this area of KY does not have a history of lynchings/hangings over drugs.

There's a lot of legend of these incidents from the moonshiner days, however.

The description of the crime scene sounds bizarrely staged.

I'm not sure exactly what to make of it yet.

[FredStembottom]

52. I think that's wise.

I was struck by the antique quality of that word "Fed".

If it was tea-bagger insanity on steroids I would have expected the current buzz-words "socialist" or "nazi" or "commie" rather than a Dillinger-era pejorative.

:shrug:

[old mark]

73. ...or socialist, democrat, etc.....lots of options. I saw an interview with a friend

of Mr.Sparkman's, a former KY State Policaman and a fellow teacher. He stated that the area has meth labs, low popluation, large wooded rural areas. He emphasised tht area was not noted for RW political activity so much as dopers.

Obviously murder, even to the Sheriff's office now.

mark

[No Elephants]

81. ? I've been saying "the feds" since I was in college. Granted, I'm not under 30 anymore, but

"antique?"

You are SO not my BFF anymore!

[FredStembottom]

98. Sorry......

:hangover: But "antique" is how I feel lately.

:hi:

[rvablue]

99. It was on Countdown last night. And it looks like the national print media is on the story.

CNN will be covering it by Monday....they'll be forced to now.

[Occulus]

120. It has

We have an in-house news ticker RSS feed on our breakroom TV; it's part of PostalTV or some such. It was on the ticker yesterday.

[Barack_America]

17. AP article author on Rachel, confirming that it was his Census employee ID...

...that was taped to his neck.

[ShortnFiery]

19. Then I'm disgusted that this death has been ruled anything save for "a murder."

What's going on there?!?

[Barack_America]

22. It has been ruled nothing yet.

The cause of death is asphyxiation.

The medical examiner has not yet declared the manner of death (i.e. homicide, suicide, accident)

It would be pretty shocking for this to be ruled anything other than a homicide at this point, however.

[Bearware]

21. Any bets the guy tearing off the duct tape used his bare hands and cleaned the slick side

If you tear off duct tape it is damn near impossible not to make super permanent fingerprints on the sticky side. Maybe by examining the duct tape you can build a profile of who did it. What good ol' boy Glen Beck fans would use scissors or his sharp knife to cut duct tape. Just tear off a piece and then wipe of them fanger prints.

[Thickasabrick]

27. Why did the authorities say earlier they were looking into it as a

possible suicide? Why do that? I'm so glad this witness spoke up.

[gatorboy]

34. Cover up?

[donco6]

44. That was my question. n/t

[mitchum]

48. Maybe someone's brother-in-law is the leader of the local anti-gubmnt militia?

[Barack_America]

51. Or someone in the Sheriff's office is getting a cut of some drug money...

...and wants to protect himself and his investment?

Lots of possibilities. One thing is for certain, local authorities wanted very much for this to just go away.

[rebel with a cause]

58. In our area when I was growning up;;;;;

one of the improbable suicides that happened here was a woman who was dating the mayor, a married man. She was suppose to be breaking up with him that night. The next morning she was found with her head cut cleanly off. Ruled a suicide, but no one believed it and still don't.

[Barack_America]

60. That is absolutely terrifying.

How do you feel safe in a town after something like that?

:scared:

[rebel with a cause]

64. I was a teenager when it happened

and it happened in the neighboring town and we were not allowed to go to that town for a long time. My father knew the suspect and had worked in the coal mines with him years before the incident. He was one of the first ones to suspect the man, of course as a minister he heard things other people might not have. After awhile he relaxed our rules because he knew we would not be having an affair with this man. But then, my father was a Freewill Baptist minister and we had enough rules to kill a horse on the good days, much less the bad ones. No dancing, no slacks, no to a lot of things.

[No Elephants]

89. That's how I was raised--in New Jersey! But, they called themselves Plymouth Brethren.

Coincidentally, bc of the census. Originally, they had called themselves only "Christians" because that was the only word used in the Bible to described those who believed Jesus was the Son of God. And they did not believe in doing anything that was not in the Bible. But, the Census forced them to identify themselves further.

Today, they might have sued the gubbamint for requiring them to act outside their beliefs. Then, though, they simply researched whose religions was most like theirs. They came up with the Pilgrims of 1620, who had originally landed in Plymouth, Massachusetts. So, they named themselves Plymouth Bretheren for purposes of the Census. For all other purposes, they used only "Christian." (I learned this because I asked a specific question I no longer remember.)

Guess I'm lucky I did not end up in the stocks for listening to secular music! And let's not even discuss seeing secular movies.

[rebel with a cause]

113. I was lucky because my mother did not go along with all my father's rules.

He did not believe in movies or going to carnivals because alcoholic beverages were served. Of course, his father had been an alcoholic so that may have been why he was such a hard nose on that issue. But when my sister brought a tv into the house there were certain rules. The tv had to be turned off when a commercial for cigarettes or liquor came on, or when women gave birth on some show like Gunsmoke (his favorite show). Picture had to be distorted when women were show in skimpy clothing or long kissing scenes. When my sister got married and took the tv, he went and bought one. Said it was unfair to take it away from the young ones. Truth is probably that he didn't want to miss Gunsmoke. ;)

My mother made things bearable as far as carnivals, fairs and movies were concerned. She saved money from her household budget for us to attend these things. My fathers rule was that he didn't believe in these things but he would not force his beliefs on us. The wearing of men's clothing and dancing with boys was something he could force on us. Also, his one big rule was that for us to go swimming we had to be fully clothed (probably two layers so nothing would show thru)and swim in an area where only women were. Needless to say none of us girls ever went swimming. lol

[maglatinavi]

114. rebel

She cleanly cut her head off? that is a strange suicide method...:sarcasm: :yoiks:

[rebel with a cause]

126. A newspaper recently wanted to investigate this 'suicide'

that happened some 45 years ago, but could not find anyone who remembered it (wink, wink) or would talk about it. I know this because I know someone (a relative) that works at the paper. I could talk about it but my tie with the reporter makes me off limits. Off course, all I know is hear-say, I had no personal knowledge. I just know what the policeman that found her said, what my father said, what several butchers said about the ruling, and what the public in general thought. Also, some really good gossip about the major and the county DA. lol

[FarPoint]

61. That area is infested with meth and oxy dealers.

This hanging/murder is a message to someone.

[Barack_America]

62. The area he was found in was not an active meth area...

...according to the local Sheriff's office.

Still, it is entirely possible that where he was found is not where he was killed.

[robinlynne]

66. I don't think anyone did call it a suicide. they just kept all the info secret.

[maglatinavi]

111. thick

Ever hear of Birmingham, Alabama? If not, there is a lot of info about it... the authorities also misled the public and even had part in the murder of Three Freedom Riders and their concealment... :kick:

[Happyhippychick]

28. So when does Bathshit Bachmann get charged as an accessory to murder?

[Zoeisright]

46. +1

[Posteritatis]

53. I missed the original context for this part...

Bachmann faded into my mental background as generically batshitcrazy awhile ago. Was she freaking out about the census somehow before this happened?

[Doctor_J]

68. Are you kidding?

Hav you been in a cave for 3 months? Google Bachmann census

[Posteritatis]

71. Yeah, how dare I be a non-US citizen and thus mainly follow international politics?

The nerve of me!

Why don't you go follow the actions of some lower-house British or Russian legislator instead of sneering at me for not keeping track of the American equivalent?

[Happyhippychick]

103. Bachmann used her fear mongering techniques to whip her people into a frenzy over the census. She

is claiming that she will (illegally) refuse to fill out the census information because she believes Obama is using the information in order to glean inappropriate information about the American people. She also believes Obama's intent is to put Americans in re-education camps.

Some quotes from speeches Bachmann made this summer:

“If we look at American history, between 1942 and 1947, the data that was collected by the census bureau was handed over to the FBI and other organizations, at the request of President Roosevelt, and that’s how the Japanese were rounded up and put into the internment camps.”

“You will receive approximately six contacts from them , either through phone calls or they will knock on your door. If you still do not give them the information, they said they’ll contact your neighbor to the left of you, to the right of you to get information.”

[Posteritatis]

118. Ahhhh, lovely

And that's even before getting into the fail involved in claiming the internment was rounding up people out to 1947.

It's interesting that she's only reacting to two Democratic presidents' overseeing a census when (if I remember correctly) they've happened decenially since Washington, innit? Also, interesting little rhetorical flourish she used there specifying first that one's neighbors "to the left" would be asked to give zomgyour information to the government.

Me, I love censuses, but that's the inner historian in me..

(By the way, thanks for not being an ass in your response like that other one. ;P )

[Happyhippychick]

134. I love the census too. In 1990 I was a DINK (double income no kids)

In 2000 I had given birth to my first and happily lost my DINK status. Ahhh...memories....

[maglatinavi]

116. Happy ... ...

Just Bacman, what about Glenn, Hannity, Bill, Dobb, etc ??? ...:sarcasm:

[Seldona]

30. This is horrible.

Seriously, how did anyone who had this information ever think it was a suicide, much less tell the public that? Odd.

[Barack_America]

33. That's a very good question.

I obviously do not know the answer, but I do expect the officials to give us one.

[Seldona]

39. I would hope an answer is forthcoming.

Though I agree finding whomever did this should be the priority. I am sure they will.

[Ineeda]

96. see post #58 n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

31. dollars to doughnuts this ends up as part of a Law & Order episode

BTW, season's premiere was a ripping indictment against the Feds, both in the Bush and Obama administrations, condoning torture.

[get the red out]

32. We will be told it had to be marijuana growers now

The Lexington paper all but said this had to be the work of marijuana growers today. I find it difficult to understand why guys in the drug trade would want to make a statement with someone they killed because they saw something they shouldn't have though. Sure they would kill someone, but the way this poor man was left only makes a statement, which isn't logically the work of someone that simply wants a hinderance out of the way. I personally don't believe this is what happened. Someone made a display of the body, that was done for a reason.

Look for the drug grower theory to be next, it's what is being pushed in Kentucky right now.

[Barack_America]

35. Well, I would imagine the FBI will take over the case now.

Hopefully they are more interested in solving this case than they are protecting the good ol' boys of Clay County.

[get the red out]

37. That's what I am hoping

It occurred to me that some of the "good ol' boys" might be a little nervous (or scared shitless) about who could turn up as person's of interest in an investigation. The sooner the FBI gets involved the better for everyone.

[mangeydog democrat]

65. Exactly!!!

I live in a small town in Iowa that was rife with meth, and know quite a few of the "drug dealing scum". And not a single one spouts any right wing clap-trap, or any political ideology for that matter. I don't think any of them would do this crap, let alone take a shot at the government and leave evidential clues. The word Fed is still very widely used in the smaller community situations, most likely because they have known most of the local government figures for years on a personal level. They might be against law enforcement in general, but not to the specific hierarchies involved. Even so, the basic psychology involved would suggest that they just don't like the cops that are trying to bust them. And "druggies" don't exist in any form more paranoid than meth-heads. But, good call, if they try a lame ass cover-up they will no doubt scapegoat the drug using/dealing community. After all drugs are the root of all evil to most right-wingers and a lot of blue dog types. Who would question it? And it works as a furtherance of their basic conservative "War On Drugs" political philosophy, not against it
I retrospect, the drug dealers may not espouse any philosophy around me because I have repeatedly smacked down any right wing bullshit that any one talks about around me.

[cliffordu]

74. Drug dealers would NOT have left the body to be found.

can't have the FBI shining flashlights up everyone's ass.....

[Enthusiast]

91. Excellent point. nt

[WestSeattle2]

97. Nor would they have stripped the body, hung the man, or

carved/wrote on the body. Some pot growers may be violent, but their weapon of choice has a barrel.

[ekwhite]

101. Of course

Even though the "marijuana grower" theory makes no sense, they have to have a scapegoat other than a right-wing extremist crazed by media hype about census takers and internment camps.

If he had stumbled on a pot field or meth lab, they would have buried him in the back woods, not hung him in a public place. Also, the coroner's report said it was death by asphyxiation. A pot grower or meth cooker would have shot him - quick and efficient.

[WestSeattle2]

36. What kind of inbred moron would take out an innocent

Census worker?! Whoever did this is seriously phucked-up and needs to be put out of their misery.

Some parts of this country seem to harbor more than their share of truly stupid and ignorant people.

[Divine Discontent]

40. I agree that ignorance typically breeds this kind of deranged intolerance.

they're in all states though, and I'd feel no safer in a part of a city known for gangbanging, than I would in rural TN. To think someone would actually do this bizarre cult shit to a human being out working a temporary job screams of insanity (meaning, faux news viewer)

[Barack_America]

41. The kind of moron who angers easily and kills impulsively.

The witness (in an ABC News story on the matter) noted that the tailgate of Sparkman's truck was down as if he had been killed elsewhere and brought there.

[get the red out]

54. When they catch who did this

maybe they will move the trial to Lexington and put me on the jury. I can hope anyway.

I am so f-ing angry about this. Some crimes just dig into my guts, this is one of them.

[TXN in WA]

102. me too

I can't get it out of my head and am trying to stay on top of the latest re: this case. It really angers, upsets, and frustrates me.

[Doctor_J]

69. The kind that listens to hate radio all day

[Faygo Kid]

55. Duer DEUR duer duer, duer duer duer duer. Deliverance, 1972.

It's either a Michelle Bachmann Happy Day, or a meth lab. I choose to blame Rush. Because I can, and he needs to be stopped.

[XemaSab]

56. I worked for the census this summer

I had a badge, and everything.

We were supposed to take points at doors, and knock before we did.

I had a few people argue with me, but the idea that someone would kill a census worker is scary.

[FailureToCommunicate]

77. I got suspicion a lot as a census taker 40 years ago. One nut pulled a shotgun,

and that was in a "nice"area of town (in White Plains, New York).
Same with canvassing for Obama: Met lots of very polite citizens and a few real mean low life's.

[RamboLiberal]

67. From Louisville Courier-Journal

Weaver said the body was about 50 yards from a 2003 Chevrolet S-10 pickup truck. He said Sparkman's clothes were in the bed of the truck.

“His tailgate was down,” Weaver said. “I thought he could have been killed somewhere else and brought there and hanged up for display, or they actually could have killed him right there. It was a bad, bad scene.”

Dr. John Hunsaker, associate chief for the state medical examiner, said in an interview that there were “marks on the body” and that while “people could interpret them differently,” they may have said “Fed.”

University of Pittsburgh sociologist Kathleen Blee, co-author of a book about Clay County, told The Associated Press that when she heard of Sparkman's death, she initially wondered whether he had stumbled across a marijuana plot.

Marijuana growers seeking to avoid federal forfeiture statutes often plant their crops on national forest land and have been known to booby-trap plots with explosives and rattlesnakes.


http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090925/NEWS01/909250366/Witness+says+census+worker+bound++naked

[cliffordu]

75. I'd round up all the rattlesnakes and question them.....

[Cobalt-60]

72. Perhaps the 82nd Airborne should conduct the census.

They're Feds too.

[defendandprotect]

76. shock and awe . . .??

So Sparkman was taking a census in the national forest?

And people who raise marijuana for money -- who don't want to go to jail for it --

do this to keep everything quiet???????????????????????????

[starroute]

78. I keep being struck by the cultish aspects of this

Even a couple of days ago I was joking about Cthulhu-worshippers -- but now that the details have come out, it sounds even more bizarrely ritualized. I keep being reminded of Twin Peaks and having visions of weird, deranged, back-country, inbred cults. I'd sure rather be wrong than right on this one, though.

[proteus_lives]

79. One difference though.

If those who worship The Dread Cthulhu, human cultists/Deep Ones/Star-Spawn, they never would have found the body. ;-)

[maglatinavi]

117. Prot...

What is the CThulhu Cult? Please enlighten me... :woohoo:

[proteus_lives]

135. ia! ia! ia!

It's a group dedicated to bringing the Great Old Ones back to Earth of course!

All shall be devoured by the Great Cthulhu!

[indimuse]

80. I wonder

how many people were involved? I think it was more than one...sad.

[OneBlueSky]

84. regardless of what the complete story turns out to be, there is a deep undercurrent of hatred . . .

in this country, driven mostly by fear, xenophobia, and racism, and fostered by talking heads and leaders who've mastered the art of dog-whistling . . . and it's growing . . . more and more people who have been beaten down by the sytem are being tricked into directing their anger and hatred at the wrong people, the wrong ideas, and the wrong institutions -- those that are contrary to their best interests in every way, shape, and form . . .

hate mongers like Limbaugh and Beck stir the pot to ensure that those the system most abuses are those who most vociferously oppose real and fundamental change . . . that's quite a trick that the corporate/government oligarchy has pulled off -- getting the people they screw the worst to jump the highest in their defense on every issue from war to healthcare to the environment . . . and now they're killing people -- just to send a message, don'tcha know . . .

it's all ass-backwards, to be sure, but it's real and it's happening and we can no longer simply say that "someone's gonna get hurt" if it continues . . . a lot of someones are being hurt every day, and this murder is simply the logical extension of hatred carried to its extreme conclusion . . . and I, for one, fear for our president's safety any time he's out in public, which is quite frequently . . . threats against this president have quadrupled from those against his predecessor, so much so that the Secret Service can't even investigate all of them . . .

it's just all really fucked up, imo . . .

[maglatinavi]

122. hatred

It is hatred, racism, fanaticism, intransigency, etc. I only hope that the Secret Service guarding the President and his family, specially his children who are most vulnerable, are increased...
And I hope that we do not have a repetition of Birmingham, Alabama. I dare to say that the authorities indecision about this crime being "suicide" is a clear indication that they are part of the hate crimes sulling the good name of our beloved Nation. It is indeed a shame...
My only hope is that the FBI gets to the bottom of this... and as terroristas are being identified, so are the "in-home" terrorists and promoters of hate crimes.
The crime of this FED worker should be a call to every authentic law enforcer in the nation to identify the bad seeds within their forces for prevention and solutions strategies.:patriot:

[get the red out]

128. Absolutely correct

We have a GIGANTIC problem in this country with hate-mongering on the right, and they are laughing at their followers and the rest of us all the way to the bank. We need to start addressing this problem now.

[No Elephants]

87. Anyone thinking of running for national office?

So sad that the noble experiement has lead to this kind of thing.

So sorry for this man's loved ones.

[barbtries]

90. that should put an end to any suggestions

of suicide.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

92. Socks, gag, and duct tape, oh my!

I'm waiting for Fox News to spin it as "consensual sex gone wrong".

And writing "FED" on his chest? How else do you keep track of which of your kids has eaten breakfast, and which hasn't?

I wish the FBI all the best in their search for the killers.

:hi:

[maglatinavi]

119. Bozo...

I wish the FBI agency sends a strong contingency to make sure they are safe... those ol'boys in the South are scary... Remember Birmingham, Alabama!!! :scared: :evilfrown:

[maglatinavi]

105. Census worker

:think: Birmingham, Alabama once again ... what kind of idiot would believe that according to the way the deceased's body appeared that it could be suicide??? What kind of law officers can say that with a straight face? Smells like once again the Alabama murder of the three Freedom Riders involvement by the authorities is repeated. Why would the words "FED" appear in the dead body's chest? I hope, that for the sake of sannity the authorities in this case give an about face and stop declaring their "stupid" preliminary assesment of the case.
And, just in case, I hope that the FBI doesn't send a solitary agent to investigate as I would be afraid for the agent's safety. The FBI should send a well protected contingent.
And, lets remember the inciendary voices of the Bachman, Hannity, O'Reilly, Bleck, Dobbs, Malik, etc. They are promoting a situation in the country that is scary and dangerous.
Matters are not political anymore, they are revoutionary, dangerous and irrational, to say the least! :scared: :nuke: :cry: :yoiks:

[Crunchy Frog]

110. Another hate crime?

I'm not surprised the way the "gub'mint" has been demonised lately.

[McCamy Taylor]

121. In other words the headlines should be "Census Worker Lynched in Kentucky."

[maglatinavi]

123. McCamy

you hit it right... but would they do???:dilemma:

[Deep13]

124. Any suspects?

I was a census taker in 2000. While no one threatened me, I did run into a few anti-government kooks. One was quite beligerent.

[Truthway]

125. uncanny

DU is gonna get hit with a DMCA, copy and pasting AP crap is illegal..
anyway something is gonna happen..

federal workers are disliked, I think

[HardWorkingDem]

127. Slow down people.....wow....

It's both interesting and troubling how people think and react to information.


Certainly, many here will laugh at this reply, but that is because most making conclusions here have absolutely no experience in death investigations.

Don't mistake me....I am not claiming to know if this is a murder or suicide. Much more information is needed to make that determination.


But for those that do not have experience in death investigations, let me point out a few things: it is not uncommon for people to tie their hands and feet in suicides or auto-erotic practices (think of David Carradine and the singer of INXS).

Also, there is a myth here that this man was "pulled" up into the tree. Reports are saying otherwise and that his feet were touching. But with this, again, those with no death investigation experience believe that is strange when it is not. For one thing, only minor compression of the neck is needed to result in death. Also, not to be overly graphic, but when people hang, they do stretch.

The reason why people are taking so long in this investigation is because they want to do it right. But it seems even that becomes a conspiracy.

I could write a ton about things at death scenes that appear strange to the inexperienced but are actually not that uncommon.


One has to ask, were the bindings loose and sloppy? Was this an auto-erotic practice? Was the victim having psychological issues? Where his clothes in the bed of the truck folded neatly? Did he have an escape route?

There are many, many questions that need to be explored and taking the word of the casual observer and family sometimes must be done cautiously.

Every one recall the young black male that hung himself in the south a few years ago where Jesse Jackson became involved? The young man's family believed he was murdered because of racial issues and they thought he was hung with a belt that did not belong to him. Later on, photographs of the young man were located showing him wearing the belt and it was determined it was a suicide.


My point is, more information is needed and I'm not claiming to know if this was a murder or suicide and neither do the home bound observers here.

[get the red out]

129. WOW!!!!!!

Perhaps we should move as slowly as the Kentucky authorities are moving, then hopefully this entire uncomfortable business will just go away and we can go back to watching American Idol and pretending all is sunlight and sweetness in the greatest country on earth.

[Jeep789]

131. Yep, I think we should always suspect the victim

of deviant behavior first, despite the evidence.

edited to add: And we should definitely keep our heads buried in the sand and not acknowledge that the right wing's propaganda to stir the ignorant is actually working.

[HardWorkingDem]

143. Have you ever....

been involved in a death investigation? And did you even read my caveat in my posting?


Often times, suicides are harder to investigate than homicides. Does the name Vince Foster ring a bell?

What I'm suggesting is people slow down, let the investigators do the jobs they are trained at and when all the evidence has been gathered and examined, then let the judgments fly.

Oh, and in the future, please don't lead with some sort of rude mischaracterization of what I typed.

[Jeep789]

146. Then you of all people should know that the auto-erotic

asphyxiation is extremely rare. Add that to the fact of his character and that he had the word FED written on him and I wouldn't think any investigator worth his salt would rule such a scenario likely. Add the fact, which they already knew and we now know, that he was duct taped and his badge was fastened to him. Anyone who still even considers it may be a suicide is not an investigator I would ever hire.

Why in the hell, you don't consider your portrayal of the victim as a possible deviant sexual suicide a character assassination on the victim, is my question. Of course, he can't do a thing about it so maybe you think that makes it okay.

[HardWorkingDem]

147. What you are completely ignoring is...

that none of us are there or have even seen the scene.

And I am not assassinating the character of the person at all.

What I am doing, as any good death investigator would do, is keeping an open and broad mind and letting the evidence (which none of us have seen all of) provide better answers.

And evidently you know little of auto-erotic death and the practice of it. Evidently you do not know how often, especially in the past, auto-erotic do happen and how often they are covered up by loved ones to hide the occurrence.

Certainly, more often than the not the participant is able to stop the act.

And you are the one who are making value based judgments on people by calling such acts as this as "deviant sexual suicide."


All I'm doing is pointing out, none of us are then, don't jump to conclusions and what does the evidence say. On top of that, eye witness testimony is usually one of the least reliable forms of information.

Lastly, the mere description of the person being duct taped tells little. Were the bindings tight? Were they in front? Able to be done after the ligature added or unable to do so? Was this in such a remote area that the person would not be found quickly? Hence, the display of the identification and was the person going through psychological trauma?

And as I've stated, I'm not saying this is not a murder or that it is a suicide, only that none of us were present and these case are more complex than what couch commanders give them credit for.

As for your hiring processes, just open the phone book and put you finger down because that evidently is the type of person you'd be satisfied with for any sort of investigation, instead of one who keeps an open mind and looks at all aspects of an investigation.

[Hepburn]

130. Who the hell is the Rocket Scientist who thought this could he a suicide?

GMAFB...

He duct taped his hands before or after he tied the rope around his neck?

Hello???

Edit for typo

[HardWorkingDem]

144. Have you ever.....

investigated a death before?

It is not uncommon for hands to be tied in "suicide" hangings.

I'm not declaring this to be a suicide. I was not there but I do know there is plenty of information still not known or released to arrive at a final conclusion.

I'd suggest reading up on death investigations before throwing around words like "rocket scientist"....et cetera

[valerief]

132. From Michele Bachmann's mouth to some lunatic's ear. nt

[ShortnFiery]

137. +1

:(

[Odin2005]

139. The "FED" thing makes it blinding obvious that this is RIGHT-WING TERRORISM!

[Anakin Skywalker]

140. Where Are the Naysayers Now?

I remember them discounting this was murder when the news first broke. Where y'all at?

[HardWorkingDem]

145. Well.....

From the available reports, any seasoned death investigator can come up with plenty of questions. Especially when sitting on the sidelines like most here.

Frankly, it bothers me how quick supposed more intelligent DU'ers jump into the automatic conspiracy crowds.


It's like no one here has ever heard of Vincent Foster, Twanna Bradley and David Carradine.


I'm waiting for more information before falling into the murder crowd. I've seen too many bizarre things to just go by news reports.

[depakid]

141. Another violent crime brought to you by hate radio and Fox "news"

Honorable mention to Michele Bachmann.