Activists protest Va. strip club's Obama banner

[IDemo]

Source: Associated Press

Banner depicts the president as the Joker from 'Batman' movie

Mon., Sept . 28, 2009

RICHMOND, Va. - Activists gathered outside a downtown strip club Monday to denounce as racist a banner depicting President Obama as the Joker from Batman.

"Not only is it an attack on the president, but also on all men and people of African descent," King Salim Khalfani, president of the Virginia NAACP, said of what he called "the abomination that's on the wall" outside Club Velvet.

The banner, unfurled within the past few days, depicts Obama as Heath Ledger's grotesque Joker character from "The Dark Knight." The president is shown with smeared red lipstick, a white face and darkened eyes. The word "socialism" is spelled out below the caricature.

Dancer Kaitlyn McGee handed out a statement from club owner Sam Moore, who did not appear. The statement described him as a "staunch libertarian" and said the banner was intended to show his displeasure with Obama's policies. McGee walked through the crowd with a sign that read "Strippers 4 Obama" to show that Moore is not opposed to the president himself.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33061498/ns/politics-white_house/

[YOY]

1. Mr. Moore does not even know what 'socialism' is I bet.

n.t.

[laconicsax]

2. Does Mr. Moore drive exclusively on the right side of the road?

If so, he's trading his personal liberty for the common good. Isn't that what "staunch libertarians" oppose? Does he pay payroll taxes? If so, he's trading his personal liberty for the common good. Isn't that what "staunch libertarians" oppose?

"Staunch libertarian" my ass. Staunch hypocrite anarchist is more like it.

[harmonicon]

5. why smear anarchists?

If you don't think he's a libertarian you decide to refer to him as being of some other political persuasion that you don't like and have no understanding of?

[guruoo]

26. Breaking: Webster's joins anti-anarchist smear campaign, defines anarchy as "political disorder"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy

Main Entry: an·ar·chy
Pronunciation: \ˈa-nər-kē, -ˌnär-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin anarchia, from Greek, from anarchos having no ruler, from an- + archos ruler — more at arch-
Date: 1539

1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a
wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>


:rofl:

[harmonicon]

28. You think Webster's is a real dictionary?

Anarchism is a real political movement that played a large role in shaping the world that we live in today - laugh if you'd like, but when you do so you're laughing at the likes of thousands of wobblies and other union anarchists who gave their lives for solid wages, job security, reasonable hours, and human work conditions. Try looking into the Spanish cival war - laugh at the thousands of anarchists who gave their lives for freedom in an attempt to stop Spain from becoming the fascist state that it was for most of the 20th century. Laugh at the Paris Commune of 1872, laugh at the anarchists who nearly overthrew DeGaul in 1968. Do you think suffering and persecution are funny? Do you think fighting for freedom and basic human rights is funny? Laugh away.

[guruoo]

37. My point is that anarchy, by definition, isn't a political movement,

it's simply a means to an end that can be employed by
individuals of any political persuasion.
IMHO, Abbie Hoffman was an anarchist. So is Glenn Beck.

[harmonicon]

40. in your opinion?

How is that any different than racists labeling Obama a socialist? I'm afraid that you've fallen for the same trap they have - you've let people use the name of a political movement as a boogeyman, and now you fear it and use that name to smear others. I didn't know that the Pinkertons were still around.

[Name removed]

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[TroglodyteScholar]

48. +1 n/t

[laconicsax]

33. I think you're the one lacking understanding.

Extreme Libertarians don't want limited government with a rule of law--they essentially want a non-existent government with an 'every man for himself' society.

The ideal Libertarian state, one where each person has complete personal liberty, requires an absence of government. Such a state is, by definition, anarchist.

If you have a problem with that, deal with it.

[harmonicon]

34. Well, I am an anarchist, and I would guess that this guy is not.

In fact, he doesn't call himself one. A state with no government is not by definition anarchist - anarchy requires an absence of rulers, not an absence of government (as leader =/= ruler, it's fully possible to have a government of anarchists). In a libertarian state, it would be wholly possible to have rulers of industry and private ownership, where as most anarchists would tell you that in an anarchist system industry would be owned and run by councils of workers.

[laconicsax]

36. And no true Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge.

You have a very selective definition of anarchy. A government of anarchists is a contradiction in terms unless you define government as a body of people with no authority (which in itself is a contradiction).

A government is the ruling authority of the state. When a government is overthrown or completely loses its ability to exercise authority, the society descends into a state of anarchy. Out of that anarchy a new government is formed and the state of anarchy ends. Often times, revolutionaries will bring down a government and use the ensuing chaos during that period of anarchy to position themselves to become the new leaders of the government by appearing to be capable of restoring order.

This happened repeatedly in Europe during the 18th and 19th centuries (especially in 1848), in twice in Russia in 1917, and in Cuba in the late 50s to name a few. People dissatisfied with their government overthrew it and used the ensuing anarchy to install themselves as the new ruling class and remake the government as they saw fit.

[harmonicon]

41. you really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Do some reading on the subject before you decide to come off as an authority on it. What you are doing is no different than these right-wingers running around calling anyone a socialist or communist as soon as any distribution of funds or services outside of the free market is mentioned.

[laconicsax]

46. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

You seem to be unwilling to accept long-established definitions and historical examples of anarchy. From your previous response:

A state with no government is not by definition anarchist

Show me a source. Preferably one that has a list of words accompanied by definitions.

anarchy requires an absence of rulers, not an absence of government (as leader =/= ruler, it's fully possible to have a government of anarchists).

Again, this is a contradiction in terms. A government is a ruling body or ruling authority.

In a libertarian state, it would be wholly possible to have rulers of industry and private ownership, where as most anarchists would tell you that in an anarchist system industry would be owned and run by councils of workers.

There's still no government here. A council of workers owning and operating a country's industry doesn't constitute a government--it would be unable to exercise authority over anything other than industry. A country lacking a government with authority is an anarchy in practice--look at the Kerensky government in pre-Soviet Russia. They spent so much time trying to set up a government that the country started to descend into anarchy--an anarchy that the Bolsheviks used to their advantage by promising people security.

Here are some definitions of anarchy from various dictionaries (I'll skip Webster since you seem to think that it isn't a 'real' dictionary).

From the American Heritage Dictionary:
Anarchy (noun)
1. Absence of any form of political authority.
2. Political disorder and confusion.
3. Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.

From dictionary.com:
Anarchy (noun)
1. a state of society without government or law.
2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy.
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

First sentence from the Encarta online encyclopedia entry on anarchism:
Anarchism, political theory that is opposed to all forms of government...

First sentence from the Britannica Online Encyclopedia entry on anarchism:
Political theory holding all forms of government authority to be unnecessary and undesirable...

First sentence from West's Encyclopedia of American Law entry on anarchism:
The theory espousing a societal state in which there is no structured government or law or in which there is resistance to all current forms of government.

Oops. Looks like 'no government' is a recurring theme. Are these dictionaries and encyclopedias not "real" dictionaries and encyclopedias either?

Even Wiktionary and Wikipedia aren't on your side:

(wiktionary.org)
Anarchy (noun)
1. The state of a society being without authoritarians or a governing body.
2. Anarchism; the political theory that a community is best organized by the voluntary cooperation of individuals, rather than by a government, which is regarded as being coercive by nature.
3. A chaotic and confusing absence of any form of political authority or government.
4. confusion in general; disorder

(Wikipedia)
Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχία anarchía, "without ruler") may refer to any of the following:

* "No rulership or enforced authority." <1>
* "Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder."<2>
* "A social state in which there is no governing person or group of people, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."<3>
* "Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere."<4>

What was it you said again? Oh, yes...I remember.

A state with no government is not by definition anarchist

Sure it isn't.

[harmonicon]

60. so, you're using dictionary definitions against historical fact?

Can we do that with anything now? Just ignore history and let anonymous words replace it? Read up on Proudhon, Bakunin, Kropotkin, Debord, etc. There is a big difference between abstract ideas and real-life facts.

Furthermore, you are trying to use false logic here by thinking that "a state with no government = anarchy" just because you think that "anarchy = a state with no government". That is, while an anarchist state may have no government, a state with no government is not then by definition anarchist. While all oranges may be orange, not all orange things are oranges.

[laconicsax]

63. Cite your facts then.

Don't keep just prattling on about how anarchy and government can go hand in hand--cite your facts.

[harmonicon]

64. What don't you get?

Me = anarchist. I'm also a staunch Democratic voter (most of the time - I vote for the best candidate). I have many friends who are anarchists, and I've clued you in on many famous anarchists from the past 150+ years that the movement has been around. We are human beings, we vote, we have political positions. Look into the Ludlow massacre - many of those union members and their families were anarchists (like lots of wobblies and other union members at the turn of the century). They died so that we could live in a better world.

To simply state once again: leader =/= ruler. It is fully possible to have anarchists in charge of the US government with no changes to the constitution. We elect leaders and representatives, not rulers.

This guy who you label "anarchist" is not. He doesn't consider himself to be one, and I don't know of a single anarchist who would see anything in his behavior that would cause them to draw that conclusion.

As for "anarchy and government going hand-in-hand", it's just that simple: anarchists participate in government. Workers' councils are a form of governance that could be called anarchic; many cooperatives as well. We have yet to see an example of an anarchist system governing an entire country, but that doesn't make it impossible; there were once no democracies either. There are many systems such as Anarcho-Syndicalism that would be possible. Read up on the organization of the French revolts of May '68 and see how they were organized. Look into the Paris Commune of 1872 - the anti-fascist Anarchist struggle in the Spanish civil war. These are all events which were anarchist in spirit and in nature. They existed. I don't know what more facts you want - I've now repeated myself about all of this once. How many more times do I have to?

[laconicsax]

65. You have yet to define "anarchist system."

"We have yet to see an example of an anarchist system governing an entire country,"

That's because once a government is in place, it isn't an anarchy! Here are some forms of governments:

Monarchies, where a king or queen presides as head of state.
Oligarchies, where a group of 'elietes' preside as head of state.
Republics, where a body of elected representatives enacts laws that rule the state (ever wonder why it's called "rule of law?").
Democracies, where the majority rule over the minority.

Where does your anarchist state fit into this? Define an "anarchist system." Workers' councils are examples of other types of government depending on the manner in which they are formed. If the membership is by vote of the worker population, then it's a republic. If membership is based on job title, it's an oligarchy. If all workers are voting members, it's a mob-rule democracy.

Furthermore, how do you propose a workers' council to be an effective form of national government?

[harmonicon]

66. Do you not understand that there can be an Anarchist Republic?

There can also be Socialist Republics, Democratic Republics, etc. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_Catalonia

Now I'm done. I doubt that you've looked up a single figure or historical event that I've mentioned thus far, so I doubt that you'll look at that either. You have learned nothing from this exchange, and I have unfortunately learned that even supposed-leftists are often painfully ignorant of the events in history which brought them to the place they are in today, and equally blind to their fellow man in the world around them.

[Name removed]

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[Barack_America]

3. What a coward.

He puts up an offensive banner, then sends women out there to defend him?

[Name removed]

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[RaleighNCDUer]

4. I don't get it. How is the Joker a socialist?

He seems more like an anarcho/libertarian to me.

[sofa king]

43. Or is it because he wears white-face?

[Name removed]

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[Tim01]

6. "King Salim Khalfani" What the crap?

The NAACP in Va is being run by a guy who labels himself a king in America? That can't be right.

[Tempest]

7. WTF???

It never occurred to you that King is his birth name?

King is a somewhat common first name for men (#1055 out of 1220) and an even more common last name for both men and women (#30 out of 88799). (1990 U.S. Census)
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/King

[Tim01]

8. Really? Uh, no. It never occured to me. Thanks. I get it now.

I would think that would be like naming my kid Emperor, or Genius. I can't imagine doing something like that.

[Blue_Tires]

11. people most commonly use the latin counterparts (Rex, Regis, Regina, etc)

[Tim01]

18. I had no idea. Thanks. nt

[SoxFan]

42. Roy

[Aristus]

9. The safety razor was invented by King Gillette.

He wasn't royalty. He was a salesman. And he didn't give himself this name; his parents did...

[Tim01]

24. I figured that was a sales thing. New to me. nt

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[9119495]

32. What if he was named after the good reverend Dr. Martin Luther King?

People name their kids after favorite authors, leaders, etc. all the time.

[Name removed]

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[Brickbat]

10. Frankly, this poster does not bother me, because I just haven't been able to figure out its message.

Obama is...the Joker? And...the Joker is a socialist? Or..Obama is Heath Ledger? Socialists wear weird makeup? Seriously, I just can't muster the outrage on this poster, because it is such a complete and utter graphic design fail.

[Myrina]

12. ... same here ....

I don't see it as necessarily racist, I just see it as ... bizarre. :shrug:

[Brickbat]

17. I wondered if I was the only one.

:hi:

[d_r]

19. ever seen black faced minstrals?

It seems like they are trying to put a black man in to white face makeup to me. But most of them probably don't realize it.

[Brickbat]

23. I think that's a reach. And...what's the message?

Whites are mockable by putting on white makeup and looking like Ledger's Joker? And that's socialist? It's just dumb all around.

[Name removed]

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[madville]

45. Doesn't make much sense

Of course like many other things, people can't argue the point because no one can figure it out. I don't see the racism though, everything critical of the President isn't racism.

[MidwestTransplant]

13. Will he be voting for his RW Fundy gov. candidate? How about the fact that Ashcroft wanted to put

him out of business? Did he post anti Bush things I wonder?

[Sub Atomic]

14. Did he post anti-Bush things? I doubt it.

That would be disrespecting the office of the President.

:puke:

[alfredo]

15. Over my years as a mail carrier, I've had "adult" bookstores

on my routes. Every owner was a right wing asshole. I bet if you polled the owners of strip clubs, you'd find the same thing.

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[alfredo]

62. We're twisted, but not near as twisted as short order cooks. Ever wonder about

that "special sauce"?

[Crowman1979]

20. Boycott strip club and adult bookstores by looking for adult entertainment for free on the net.

[Kolesar]

21. I had wondered what those posters with the red and blue makeup were modeled on

It is immature, like me drawing on the faces of my teachers pictures--when I was eleven.

[fascisthunter]

22. too bad suckas

freedom of speech and expression goes both ways...

[NashVegas]

25. Obama Makes People Stupid

This story is mind-bogglingly funny in so many ways ... the LIBERTARIAN club owner identifies The Dark Knight's official anarchy representative with Obama?

Ah, well.

[sofa king]

44. Nah, he just makes stupid people do things to prove it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

27. Failing to see racism in the least nt

[NoodleyAppendage]

29. Smart like a fox. This is nothing more than a publicity effort for the strip club. n/t

J

[marshall]

30. I wonder if he also features the Sarah Palin look alike stripper

Or at least he could screen a few of her recent videos.

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[marshall]

61. You mean the Sarah Palin look alike?

She looks better with her clothes on.

[abd]

31. Meet Sam Moore

http://riverdistrictnews.com/tag/sam-moore/

[Matador]

35. Moores a douche

He's been arrested for stabbing someone and having sex w/an underage girl so he fits in well w/the GOP.BTW Moore, Freedom of speech can go both ways:

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[SCRUBDASHRUB]

67. Welcome to DU, fellow Richmonder.

I saw Moore sitting by himself at a local diner where I was having a lunch with a friend of mine last year. The guy gave me the creeps.

[MisterP]

38. statement described him as a "staunch libertarian"

ooh, better check the strippers for cuff marks and GHB: there's one thing liberts care about them--themselves (and get out of their way or face their consequences, since they have no internalized conscience, just wondering what they can get away with)

[New Dawn]

39. Libertarians = Crackpots. They'd privatize our sidewalks and roads, if they could get away with it.

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