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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:13 PM Original message |
PG&E gets OK for space-based solar project |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:25 PM Response to Original message |
1. Longer article at the NY Times |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:35 PM Response to Reply #1 |
19. This guy has had a GREAT PR Agency - been making these announcements for 5 years... |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:51 PM Response to Reply #19 |
23. Getting a Power Purchase Agreement is a major milestone for any project. |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:40 PM Response to Reply #23 |
45. The cash stream is only guaranteed IF he produces power... |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:55 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. That is exactly right. If and only IF they produce power. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 11:28 AM Response to Reply #49 |
60. That is the key point. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:27 PM Response to Reply #60 |
64. That isn't correct. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:42 PM Response to Reply #64 |
69. I guess I wasn't clear. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:52 PM Response to Reply #69 |
72. Well put. |
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t0dd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:28 PM Response to Original message |
2. It does :) Proud to live here! k & r. nt |
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groundloop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:35 PM Response to Original message |
3. As much as I'd like for this idea to work, I just don't see how |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:42 PM Response to Reply #3 |
5. NASA has studied this extensively |
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liberal N proud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:05 PM Response to Reply #3 |
9. X Prise Foundation thinks is may be possible |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:27 PM Response to Reply #9 |
15. Oh It's definetilt possible - just not by Soleron |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 11:32 AM Response to Reply #3 |
61. The idea is to build the rectanna large enough so the watt per square inch is low. |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:39 PM Response to Original message |
4. Do a Google on 'Solaren Corp'... |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:54 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. PG&E isn't giving away any money |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:02 PM Response to Reply #6 |
7. Actually quite a few million has been promised ... |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:16 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. THE CEO CONTRIBUTED TO THE SWIFT BOAT VETERANS CAMPAIGN.... |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:19 PM Response to Reply #11 |
12. oh gee $100 |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:27 PM Response to Reply #12 |
14. Open you mind. This is not a war between you and I.... |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:59 PM Response to Reply #14 |
26. Open your mind |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:06 PM Response to Reply #26 |
36. Open your heart... |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:07 PM Response to Reply #7 |
29. Your "evaluation" sucks. |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:33 PM Response to Reply #29 |
44. Ummm... Thanks for your ... informed ... opinion. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:43 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. I'd rather have the discussion in public, but thank you. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 11:01 AM Response to Reply #47 |
59. Why Is The Possibility That This Might Be A Scam So Hard To Believe? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:23 PM Response to Reply #59 |
63. It is a smear campaign, not substantive criticism. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:29 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. I Don't See Her Accusations As Baseless |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:39 PM Response to Reply #65 |
67. Totally baseless. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:45 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. Meh, Not That Impressed W/ This |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:55 PM Response to Reply #70 |
74. It could be a scam, any investment COULD be a scam. But Technogirl's claims are baseless. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:00 PM Response to Reply #74 |
77. Your Claims Are Just As Baseless |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:19 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. What "large power conglomerate"? |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:24 PM Response to Reply #80 |
83. You Claim TG Has Some Personal Agenda |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:25 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. It isn't "healthy skepticism" it is a smear campaign. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:30 PM Response to Reply #85 |
89. LOL! Thank You Mr. Webster! |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:35 PM Response to Reply #89 |
93. Some things are self evident. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:37 PM Response to Reply #93 |
96. Oh, Indeed They Are, You're Taking This Very Personally |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:38 PM Response to Reply #96 |
99. I don't like liars. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:40 PM Response to Reply #99 |
101. Oh, You Are So Noble! |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:45 PM Response to Reply #101 |
105. I do have high ethical standards and an excellent education |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:48 PM Response to Reply #105 |
108. And You're Very Humble |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 06:22 PM Response to Reply #108 |
111. Not particularly. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:42 AM Response to Reply #111 |
123. Don't Forget Handsome |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 02:55 AM Response to Reply #29 |
118. "Their website looks like it was made by a twelve year old."? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 01:53 PM Response to Reply #118 |
127. Those are totally false claims. "nuff said". |
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MilesColtrane (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:02 PM Response to Original message |
8. Sounds like it's for proof of concept. |
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Robb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:08 PM Response to Original message |
10. Wow! |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:24 PM Response to Original message |
13. Aha! Here's the Scam - PG&E Gets to count this as it's "Renewable Energy Quota" |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:28 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. Nope |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:31 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. It's a scam - pure and simple |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:56 PM Response to Reply #18 |
24. It is a very workable idea... |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:14 PM Response to Reply #24 |
37. I agree on both counts! |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 03:41 AM Response to Reply #37 |
55. Oh, the company.... |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:02 PM Response to Reply #18 |
27. There's a link to their patent in the NYT article upthread. nt |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:16 PM Response to Reply #27 |
38. Have you looked at it? |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 10:44 PM Response to Reply #38 |
50. Yes, I looked at it earlier this year |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 10:56 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. Well he's had 5 years now... Has he answered... |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:18 PM Response to Reply #13 |
32. Only if it actually generates energy. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 10:54 AM Response to Reply #13 |
57. Damn, You May Be On To Something |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:38 AM Response to Reply #13 |
122. Regulators are allowing PG&E to BUY POWER from the solar station |
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Piewhacket (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:30 PM Response to Original message |
17. ? What are they going to do? Microwave everyone in fresno? |
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Uncle Joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:37 PM Response to Original message |
20. I do wonder why they feel the need to invest in space based solar when the U.S. |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:39 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Because it's cheaper to throw away a few million into a PR campaign ... |
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Soylent Brice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:44 PM Response to Reply #20 |
22. there's investment out there too: |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:58 PM Response to Reply #20 |
25. Because there is ZERO infrastructure to transmit that energy to the rest of the country. |
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Uncle Joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:13 PM Response to Reply #25 |
30. We do need a smart grid, but the more I think about it, space based solar could have one advantage |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:52 PM Response to Reply #30 |
34. Well, not really gonna help in that regard for now. You don't use a matchstick to heat a house. |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:54 PM Response to Reply #34 |
48. Edit period has passed, so I'll post my edit as a reply: |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 11:12 PM Response to Reply #34 |
53. That's really an amazing analysis... |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:36 AM Response to Reply #53 |
54. What the hell is that supposed to mean and why are you attacking me? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:35 PM Response to Reply #34 |
66. Your understanding of the energy resource potential is flawed |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 11:30 PM Response to Reply #66 |
115. Your understanding of what I posted is flawed |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 02:04 AM Response to Reply #115 |
116. Not really. |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 02:31 AM Response to Reply #116 |
117. Fair enough, and thank you for NOT just copy/pasting a summary to a report |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 02:57 AM Response to Reply #117 |
119. The nuclear picture is bleak worldwide because of costs. |
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JonQ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:54 PM Response to Reply #20 |
73. Trasmitting electricity over long distances is very inefficient |
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Arctic Dave (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:04 PM Response to Original message |
28. Seems like it would be cheaper to have people install solar panels on their homes. |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:22 PM Response to Reply #28 |
41. Well... Solar does not provide enough wattage.... |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:35 PM Response to Reply #41 |
132. I beg to differ, with a caveat. |
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cowcommander (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:18 PM Response to Original message |
31. Looks cool, hope it's real |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:18 PM Response to Reply #31 |
39. It's not real - just hype |
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AngryAmish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:27 PM Response to Original message |
33. Isn't all solar energy technically space-based? |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:59 PM Response to Reply #33 |
35. Well, Ceiling Cat can... |
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TCJ70 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:20 PM Response to Original message |
40. Why would you do space-based solar when... |
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Techn0Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:27 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. Well Space based solar is actually a LOT more efficient... |
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TCJ70 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:32 PM Response to Reply #42 |
43. Yeah, I read the part about the advantages... |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:41 PM Response to Reply #40 |
46. Hugely expensive 2 get the kind of generation we nd; insufficient power grid 2 transmit the energy |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 11:09 PM Response to Reply #46 |
52. Japan is planning a 1GW system by 2030 |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 09:19 AM Response to Original message |
56. Sweet! |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 10:55 AM Response to Reply #56 |
58. See Techno Girl's Posts |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:41 PM Response to Reply #58 |
68. Why, her posts are nothing but sleazy, unfounded smears by someone with an agenda. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:47 PM Response to Reply #68 |
71. Says You |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:58 PM Response to Reply #71 |
76. Then list a single substantive criticism by her. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:03 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. Well, She Hasn't Convinced Me, But Neither Have You |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:15 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. "Please post a substantive criticism made by technogirl." You can't can you? |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:20 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. Yes, I Have An Agenda, I'm An Evil Smear Merchant Because I Distrust Energy Companies |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:22 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. What large energy conglomerate is involved? |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:27 PM Response to Reply #82 |
86. Enron Is Perfectly Relevant |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:30 PM Response to Reply #86 |
88. Enron is only relevant if you want to attempt to smear a totally different process |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:32 PM Response to Reply #88 |
90. Well, I'm Sure The "Process" Is Completely Uncorruptible And Totally Fair And Has Everyone's Best |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:36 PM Response to Reply #90 |
95. Again, a smear based on insinuation and an attempt... |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:38 PM Response to Reply #95 |
98. You're Taking This Very Personally |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:39 PM Response to Reply #98 |
100. I don't like right wing liars. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:40 PM Response to Reply #100 |
102. Oh, So Now There's A Right Wing Liar Involved??? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:43 PM Response to Reply #102 |
104. More like fossil fuel/nuclear PR companies trying to derail renewable enegy initiatives |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:47 PM Response to Reply #104 |
107. You Know What Would Be A Really Sneaky Way To Do That? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 06:27 PM Response to Reply #107 |
112. We have regulators that have evaluated the proposal and found it to have merit. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:46 AM Response to Reply #112 |
125. But yr Anonymous postings are much more trustworthy! |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 01:55 PM Response to Reply #125 |
128. The facts I offer are easy to verify - just look up the process for granting a PPA |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 06:23 PM Response to Reply #128 |
130. Doesn't Mean A Thing |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:24 PM Response to Reply #81 |
84. Note for record that you have not listed any valid criticisms that were offered by TG. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:29 PM Response to Reply #84 |
87. Valid? According To You? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:34 PM Response to Reply #87 |
91. Baseless. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:35 PM Response to Reply #91 |
94. LOL! Again, You're Just As Persuasive As She Is! |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:38 PM Response to Reply #94 |
97. Answer the reponses. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:41 PM Response to Reply #97 |
103. I Demand You Answer My Reponses!! |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:46 PM Response to Reply #103 |
106. Answer the reponses. You claim her assertions have a foundation - I showed they didn't |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:50 PM Response to Reply #106 |
109. I Said They're Not Baseless |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 06:28 PM Response to Reply #109 |
113. "flimsy base" = baseless |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:43 AM Response to Reply #113 |
124. Not impressed |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 01:55 PM Response to Reply #124 |
129. Of course you aren't/ |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 06:24 PM Response to Reply #129 |
131. Tell That To My Shoe |
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fascisthunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 11:42 AM Response to Original message |
62. How will the "Receiving Station" receive the energy? |
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JonQ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:56 PM Response to Reply #62 |
75. I don't know about this one |
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fascisthunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:34 PM Response to Reply #75 |
92. interesting... sounds dangerous |
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JonQ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:57 PM Response to Reply #92 |
110. Possibly |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:33 AM Response to Reply #92 |
121. Not dangerous. |
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BrightKnight (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 07:12 PM Response to Original message |
114. near existing transmission lines and dual purpose communications relay |
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tinrobot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 03:04 AM Response to Original message |
120. Might as well put giant mirrors into space and direct them at Earth |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:00 AM Response to Reply #120 |
126. rectenna is about 85% efficient, produces less waste heat than virtually any other form of power. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:32 PM Response to Reply #126 |
133. And carbon dioxide is a trace gas so we can ignore its concentration? |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 11:58 PM Response to Reply #133 |
134. No that is foolish analogy. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 03:58 PM Response to Reply #134 |
135. I understand the argument |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Wed Apr 24th 2024, 11:57 PM Response to Original message |
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