Sen. Sherrod Brown joins Republicans in demanding that Congress go on 'public option,' too

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Whenever Democrats talk about their proposed federally backed insurance plan, or public option, in the ongoing health-care debate, critics pipe up. If you think this public option is so great, they say, why don't you demand that all members of Congress go on it, too?

Ohio Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown says that's a fine idea. And this morning, he forced his way onto a Republican amendment saying as much, becoming a co-sponsor of a Republican protest measure that would require Congress to go on the public option if it passes.

Fact is, Republicans pushing the amendment are using it as a form of rotten eggs to hurl at their opponents. But Brown, a key sponsor of the public option legislation, likes those eggs.

Brown has refused to participate in the government's array of health insurance plans for 17 years, saying they are more generous than the coverage choices that many other Americans get. Why should Congress get such sweet coverage? he asks.

Read more: http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2009/12/sen_sherrod_brown_joins_republ.html

[DavidDvorkin]

1. Hoist by their own petard.

[laughingliberal]

2. Kick and rec for Senator Brown! I love him! nt

[cmd]

88. Another kick for my Senator

He's the best:loveya:

[HopeHoops]

3. I've been saying all along - SAME PLAN for the people and for Congress.

If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for the people. And, if they're going to blow shit at the people, they better blow the same shit at themselves.

[harmonicon]

18. exactly what I think, however...

I think the better option of course would be to simply move every person in the US onto the program that Senators now get - exactly the same level of coverage.

[HopeHoops]

30. That's sort of what I mean. I doubt THEIR coverage is a 2000+ page document.

Ptttthhhhh!!!!!

[24601]

74. 70% of their premium is "employer-paid" as part of their overall

compensation package. Who picks up that tab for anyone not federally employed?

[harmonicon]

83. the same people who do for them: tax payers

It has to get paid for one way or another.

[24601]

85. But for them, it's on the basis of their employment. For VA, it's on

the basis of being a Veteran. For TRICARE, it's on the basis of being a military family member or retired service member (active duty troops do not use TRICARE).

For each of the above situations, the health care is earned on the basis of qualifying service. What is that qualifying service that entitles a non-federal employee to have their FEHBP premium paid by the government? If the answer is no qualification necessary, we're just going to give it to anyone who wants it, then I have some other requests.

For 2009, the President makes $400,000, the VP $227,300, Speaker of the House $223,500 and the Chief Justice (only one of the three who leads a branch of government) 217,400. So if receiving government-paid benefits is not to be linked to actually qualifying for them, I'll just take the Speaker's $223,500 instead of my meager civil-service salary. And for transportation, I'm tiring of waiting in long security lines just to be crammed into puny seats for commercial airline "Sardine Class" travel. So from now, in the spirit of allocating federal resources without regard to qualifying service, The Air Force can shuttle my family and me around in one of their G-V jets. I'd ask for Air Force One, but the Carbon footprint is just too big.

Boy this idea about getting pay & perks with other peoples' money is a great idea - but don't tell any else - they'll all want to get in on it.

[harmonicon]

86. "anyone else"? You mean people who live in first-world countries?

People in first world countries - like the UK, where I live - receive healthcare payed for by a collective pool of taxes. This is because being provided with a basic level of healthcare is a human right. It works the same way as other things the government provides, such as schools, the police, roads, etc. Someone like you may want these things to be changed, but for now, I'm glad that the police aren't payed on a fee-for-service basis. I like that if I should have to call 911 to report a crime in progress, I wouldn't have to first provide a credit card number.

[24601]

89. The context was the US health care and health insurance (and it's

significant not to confuse the two), so anyone else would mean anyone physically within the US - of course regardless of their legal status.

My family and I have lived in the UK and have lived under NHS. It does some things well - the health visitor for newborns for example is superb. It also would be inaccurate to claim it does all things well or there certainly wouldn't be anyone in the UK with private insurance. Who would ever purchase private insurance of NHS didn't come up short delivering top quality health care without delays? But there is a thriving demand and resulting market for private insurance precisely because NHS either will not provide the care or cannot deliver it within acceptable times. We were there in the mid-90s when NHS refused a young girl a 2nd shot at a procedure (if memory serves, it was a bone marrow transplant - but I'm not certain)after the first did not not take sufficiently to put ker leukemia into submission. After the public uproar, a private donor provided the needed money; however it then came too late to interdict the disease and she died. Ah, yes, the bureaucracy worked and gave her the one shot to which the system said she was entitled, but the girl still died. Trauma cases are handled quickly, but how long does it take to get surgery that isn't to immediately save life?

The other criticism I have related to the local doctors - doctor in our case. Nice guy all right if you didn't mind listening to tirades about HM The Queen and her family during each visit. Oh, and yes, our assigned "family doctor" in Fenstanton (approx 10 miles North of Cambridge) was a Psychiatrist. Rumor had it that he really did graduate from med school, but it was pretty clear that he'd rather have been assigned to the Psych Division of a major hospital. Too bad for him (and his patients) that he had unconventional ideas, like not treating fevers in young kids. Fortunately for us, when our 3-month old daughter ran a fever of 104 deg, we had other health care options. A professional colleague of mine was not so lucky as his Air Force doctor (in a completely government run program, not just government funded, but completely government-run)let his infant son's fever go unchecked even as it passed 106. The son, now in his 20s will never have a mind above the 6 year level.

I know the government - I've been with it for 37 1/2 years. What bureaucracies tend to do best is prevent the stampede of bad decisions made in a hurry. The rules & regulations & red tape, coupled with culture of risk aversion slows decision making down. It's not always fool-proof, but it is the general rule that's true in the overwhelming majority of the cases.

And the police - I love 'em. Most are dedicated public servants that do their best everyday. Of course much of what you read will cast them inaccurately and unfairly as 3rd generation Nazis bent on the destruction of individual rights. On the down side, when seconds count, they are only minutes away. And it's been established that they cannot be held liable for preventing crime - as noted in Smith v Chief Constable of Sussex Police - House of Lords, Published August 4, 2008.

[harmonicon]

91. ok, you like the police being paid through taxes to provide service to the entire population?

I have that right, don't I? To be against healthcare being provided in the same way makes even less sense than being against a public police force.

Your right-wing talking points about bureaucracies being involved with the NHS are laughable. I've run into virtually no visible bureaucracy in dealing with the NHS, from scheduling a check-up, emergency visits, hospital admissions, and surgery.

People in the UK buy private health insurance because they want fancy perks, not because the care provided by the NHS is inadequate. Private insurance will get you things like your own room in a private hospital, and special care when scheduling appointments with private doctors, just as it can do in the US.

If you want to talk about specific surgeries and procedures, I can give you stories that aren't 1/2 remembered from something that happened once maybe in the 80's or 90's (and where, if your story is true, the NHS was right - the poor girl would have died either way, so it's good that they didn't waste money performing a needless surgery when they could use the same resources to save lives).

This year, my girlfriend was diagnosed with gall stones. She would suffer gall stone attacks which caused such severe pain that we had to go to the ER multiple times - the second time she was admitted to a hospital, and a surgical consultation was scheduled. While waiting for the surgery to be scheduled, she kept having attacks. When we went to the ER two days in a row, she was admitted to the hospital again (I should point out here that none of this required filling out any paperwork, or any involvement by a person who was not a medical professional). This time, they decided to perform the surgery immediately, instead of waiting until 6 weeks after an attack to perform it as is recommended (this, by the way, is the source of many of the complete BS waiting time figures we see cited in the media - some surgeries you are supposed to wait for, but it still counts as "wait time", even though it's what the surgeons recommend - even with private insurance, this would have still been the case). While a more risky procedure during inflammation, her gall bladder was removed, and she was out of the hospital within a few days. From that visit to the ER and going home, she was there for 8 days. During this time, she didn't have to fill out a single form, cost was never mentioned by anyone, and no one other than a medical professional had any say in what procedures should be performed or when. Sure, bureaucracies exist when setting general policies and allocated resources to local practices and hospitals, there is absolutely NONE to be witnessed between doctors and patients.

[24601]

93. The vast majority of the police don't serve the entire population.

Federal police forces - FBI, Secret Service, DEA, Park Service, etc are a minority. The majority of police are found, and funded, at the local level. They also don't serve the entire population but have jurisdiction limited normally by geography. An officer from Detroit for example doesn't have police powers in Beverly Hills.

If the girl's second transplant would have been in time, rather than having to wait for a good samaritan, you have no basis to assert she would have died anyway. Justifying not attempting to save her life because it's a waste of money isn't progressive mindset or compassion. It's the language expected from a neocon troll. I hope a member of your family is never in a position that treatment might save the life, but some asshat runs the numbers and denies it as a waste of money.

[harmonicon]

101. everyone in the US is in that position you suggest RIGHT NOW.

That is exactly what the insurance industry does. Are you from some planet where that isn't the case? In the UK, doctors make decisions about medical care. I'm sorry that you would prefer to have patients tell doctors how to do their jobs, but I wouldn't, especially when doing so (as is the case with the US insurance industry) means that doctors can not practice their profession on those who need their help.

Your point about the police is exactly my point - it doesn't matter if I don't directly pay for the Detroit police. When I'm in Detroit, if I should have to call the police, they would come and help me. They wouldn't say "no, we can't help you - you don't pay us". That's how healthcare ought to be taken care of, as it is in the UK. No one asks for proof of payment or residency cards to provide treatment. They do it because it's the right thing to do.

[24601]

102. Any in the US can walk (or ride) to an Emergency Room and

receive medically-necessary treatment. And it's against the law to dump (transfer)the non-paying patients.

[harmonicon]

103. oh, BS - it happens all of the time

And while someone may be able to go into the ER and get emergency care, they will still be billed. Do the police send a bill? Does the fire department? Does the public school? Do you think they should?

[24601]

104. Fire Department to Charge for Service - here's your answer, yes

in some jurisdictions, you will be charged.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsilanti-fire-department-looks-to-charge-for-services/

[harmonicon]

105. that is straight up fucked up - however...

"Ichesco stressed this morning that the system for billing hasn't been determined, but the city is not aiming to bill people without insurance." That is, it would charge insurance companies - you know, when people have things like fire insurance, this would be one more thing that insurance would pay for. Still, that is completely fucked up.

Do you think that's a good thing? Do you think that every first world country somehow got healthcare wrong and should change their systems of respecting healthcare as a human right to be more like that of the US and third-world countries where people can get anything so long as they can pay for it and nothing if they can't?

[24601]

106. No I don't think it's a good thing - but that wasn't the question. n/t

[harmonicon]

107. that was the question many responses back which you have been refusing to answer.

So, now, I ask you again, do you think that the US should provide the human right of healthcare for all funded through taxes - as first world countries do - or do you think we should keep our present discriminatory, profit-based, selective, health insurance system?

[24601]

109. No, I answered it, but you pretended not to understand, I'll

type more slowly so you don't have to read fast.

Senators, Representatives, the Vice President and federal copy machine operators have up to 70% of their health insurance paid by the government because they earned it by working for the government, not because the government should pay everyone's insurance.

Vets get care from VA because they earned that care by service.

Military personnel and their families receive MTF care and TRICARE because they earned it by their service.

The common thread is the word "earned". The government needs people to perform governmental functions and Health care (MTF and VA) or Health Insurance (TRICARE & FEHBP) are EARNED as part of their total compensation package. It is not provided to them because there is an altruistic government tossing around health care like Mardi Gras candy.

We all have life choices and going into a more difficult, lower-paying profession that provides health care, verses a higher paying job without the employer paying part of the premium is a choice, not a destiny.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[harmonicon]

116. Thank you, I like my language.

There is no name-calling here. You are incredibly right-wing, and your demonstrated logical inconsistencies make you a whack-job. If my positions were "right out of the neocon playbook", I would love that playbook and I'd cry myself to sleep every night that Bush wasn't still in power, because in this alternate reality you inhabit, W would have ended all wars, guaranteed equal rights for all, ended discrimination, and poverty.

I have given you facts: 1. every single first-world country provides healthcare to all of its' citizens funded from taxes. and, 2. this is because basic healthcare for all is widely acknowledged as a human right. Beyond that I have provided you with specific examples - drawn from my own life in one of these countries - about how such a first-world healthcare system operates, free of speculation or hearsay.

What facts aren't on my side here? All I have to give you are facts. You have provided no facts, just a very weak assertion of a position that you are afraid of spelling out explicitly (why you are afraid of saying it is beyond me) - namely, that you think some people are not worthy of receiving medical care.

[wordpix]

113. +1

[kelly1mm]

4. Why aren't all the Democratic Senators signing on? nt

[bc3000]

25. Because they know the public option will be a joke

[winyanstaz]

51. I have friends in countries such as canada and Israel who love the public option...

It works great according to them.
My son in Israel's dr visits run around $6.00 and his meds that cost us hundreds here...are $12.00 there.
My friend in Canada had knee surgery and ended up only have a bill of $54.00...including meds.
Why cant we have that?
If government run insurance is good enough for grandma and grandpa, good enough for the military, it is good enough for congress and us.

[hughee99]

57. But that's the Canadian and Israeli public option...

I'm becoming more and more skeptical that the US version of the public option will be as good.

[AllyCat]

65. The trouble is this public option will only be available to about 5% of the public

If your employer has crappy coverage plan A and crappy coverage plan A. You must take it even if you can't afford it. You will pay a fine if you DON'T take that plan. Who can afford this? Thanks to my union, I have really good insurance through my employer, but it still costs a lot of money. What they don't cover is endless. My employer pays about $12K a year for my family's plan and I pay another $2500, plus all the stuff that isn't covered. How can my employer compete with that kind of cost for 3000 employees? If your employer doesn't pay anything or not much, how can a family afford $14-15K a year on diminishing earnings?

If we truly got the option, each and every one of us, to enroll in a Medicare-like plan, it would be great. I'd be happy to pay my premiums to go to that plan instead of the one I have now. But that's not what Congress is giving us. In any way, shape or form. For the few people it would help, they have to wait a long time before benefits will kick in. If you lose your job, you have to pay COBRA ($$$$) or go without until your 6 month "grace" period is up before you can buy into the public plan.

[cyclezealot]

79. We live in France most of the year.

A nights stay in the hospital is 12 US dollars. A Dr visit . 3 US dollars.. Why is Israel so expensive.. The French national plan costs per month about the same as a US dental plan... And it includes, dental, eyes, Rx, and medical.. 2 euro deductible.. For services outside of the hospital. And the care is excellent. Dr's ar required to spend 20 minutes with each patient or they don't get paid. It's sometimes sort of like a social call...

[quiet.american]

5. Sweet chess move, Sherrod. Sweet! nt

[Hekate]

6. Well, well, well. Good for Sherrod Brown.

:evilgrin:

[KansDem]

7. Well, as the old saying goes, "You can't make an omelet...

...without breaking rotten eggs."

This could help craft the best legislation possible...

[BonnieJW]

8. Thank you, Senator Brown

K&R

[Better Today]

9. I see this as very good, perhaps then we will have some plans that are worthwhile.

[truedelphi]

39. Same Here. n/t

[peaches2003]

10. Judd Gregg on MSNBC

Judd Gregg backpedaled as fast as he could when asked this question. What a little worm. Mumbled a bunch of crap about all Federal employees having insurance plans of their own, etc.

[Demeter]

12. Judd comes from a long line of worms--and they never turn, either

[Nuclear Unicorn]

14. Either we get their coverage or they get ours...

...some animals are NOT more equal to others.

Besides, I'm of the opinion a PO would be great for Americans. I can see no reason why he wouldn't want a PO.

[LiberalFighter]

28. What does he mean by all Federal employees have insurance plans of their own?

Last I knew their insurance plan is offered by the Federal government. They don't go out on their own to solicit an insurance plan.

[peaches2003]

42. I worded it wrong

He meant all Federal employees have insurance provided by the government. So it's not just Congress who would have to go with the public option to be like everyone else. He was hemming and hawing and what he was saying didn't make much sense.

[LiberalFighter]

76. I'm sure what the other Federal employees receive is not as good

as Congress members. AND I believe that in most cases Federal employees have to pay part of the premiums. How much you want to bet that Congress members pay little if any?

[laughingliberal]

78. I think it's a fine idea to have all federal employees in the public option

We pay their salaries and their benefits. That should create a big enough pool to lower the premiums and have the insurance crime cartels soiling themselves.

[wishlist]

100. Congress and Fed employees have same plans & have to pay premiums

Both Congress and Feds have a choice of several different plans. Blue Cross is one of the plans for which standard coverage costs $400 per month and the basic plan is about $235 per month for family coverage. All of the plans have deductibles and copays and not very good dental coverage, but employees can opt for additional coverage under Met Life or other group dental and vision plans for extra cost.

[mbperrin]

11. WHY can't I get a REAL senator like this?

Has Brown got any buddies he can recommend for Texas?

Please?

[Demeter]

13. It's So Encouraging

We ARE getting our Greatest Generation heroes identified--unfortunately, I think Obama will only be listed as an also-ran, scratched after the first lap.

[wryter2000]

20. My sympathies

There are lots of great people in Texas. Texas gave us Barbara Jordan. I hope you get a good senator one of these days.

[existentialist]

15. Now watch them attack him like they attacked Franken

for politicizing an amendment.

[Shrek]

22. Actually, it looks like they've granted his request

Just left Senate floor. Now co-sponsoring amdt to require senators to enroll in public option. Never before had fed govt insurane.

http://twitter.com/SenSherrodBrown/statuses/6342004361

[laughingliberal]

77. Perhaps. But that didn't work out too well for them...

Republicansforrape.com and all that.

[Dr.Phool]

16. Sherrod Brown puts his money where his mouth is.

I say use the trigger on the insurance companies. Put them out of their miserable suffering.

[Historic NY]

17. I mean why wouldn't Congress want us to have the best like them.

[wryter2000]

19. Yay

How many is that? I think Sanders and Burris are on-board. How many will it take before they figure out the liberals have some clout, too?

[Divine Discontent]

21. he is about as honorable as they come - president take notice & ask for this guy's advice

he's smart & been in politics for about 2 decades and truly has the passion for the PEOPLE, that's more than I can say for Rahm!!

[footinmouth]

23. Chris Dodd signed on as well

He also asked to be added as a co-sponsor.

[No Elephants]

95. In committee, Dodd volunteered to take the public some time ago. then again, his re-election is

iffy.

[blm]

24. Brilliantly done, senator.

.

[blue97keet]

26. Good for Brown

Now is everyone eligible for the "public option" or are we stuck with what we got like it or not?

[defendandprotect]

27. Yes, Congress should be included and they should pay their own medical costs until then . . .

However, the current bill should be defeated --

It's welfare for the "for profit" health care industry --

We need to have "no profit" health care -- no matter what the health care is --

[penndragon69]

29. Senator Brown is another REAL Democrat,

just like Senator Al Franken and Dennis kucenich!

[Joanne98]

31. I'm so proud of my Senator!

[BrklynLiberal]

32. Let's see how the repukes deal with this!

[VenusRising]

33. I love my Senator!!

It's wonderful to have a representative that I don't ever have to worry about doing the wrong thing.

Thank you, Sherrod.

[Forkboy]

34. If Kucinich did this there'd be thread after thread about him teaming up with Republicans.

:crazy:

[davidwparker]

36. But Dennis doesn't have to do this because the majority in the House

is working a whole lot better than the majority over in the good ol' boy club on the other side of the building.

Maybe Bernie (I), Frankin, and Brown can help the others find their nads.

[Mithreal]

37. The knuckleheads use every opportunity to attack Kucinich.

Principles to them are like garlic to vampires.

[winyanstaz]

52. also because they hate real patriots that speak up for the people.

You can tell the trolls easily. They are the ones that attack the people that stand up for the taxpayers.

[Mithreal]

35. Finally. Good move. K&R

[Uncle Joe]

38. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Freddie Stubbs.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

40. K & R

We need more Dem Leaders like this. Thank You Senator.

[DonCoquixote]

41. Minor Ohio Beef

While I do respect what Dennis K. does, it is sad to see that Sherrod Brown gets overlooked. The guy has been as outspoken as Dennis, and does so in a much more hostile environment, the Senate.

[midnight]

43. That's what I suggest too. If this public option is so good for us then it is good for them...

[SallyMander]

44. That's my super rad Senator!!!

I am happy i got to vote for him! :D

[PSzymeczek]

54. Lucky you!

Can you clone him for Arizona?

[blackbear79]

45. Checks and Balances I can believe in.

I understand that the health needs of the President and Vice President are unique and the Public Option is not applicable to them. The President's family and staff should be covered under the public option the same as any citizen. If it's good enough for Michelle and the girls, I think it will be good enough for me. Checks and balances.

[gkhouston]

46. Let's see some other Dems man up and join him. If it's good enough for us,

then it's good enough for them. Hey, why don't we all have the same plan? :think:

[existentialist]

73. Forgive me if this is a duplicate, but I checked and couldn't find it

But two more Senators are now supporting and requesting to be cosponsors of this amendment:

Franken from Minnesota, and

Milkuski from Maryland.

[No Elephants]

96. I'm so glad Franken won, no matter how long it took.

[Clear Blue Sky]

47. Great idea.

Congress should be required to live under the laws and regulations that they push on the rest of us.

[LarryNM]

48. Abolish Public Funded Healthcare for All Reps

Until we have affordable public healthcare available for all citizens the Reps can get private health insurance. If they or their families have pre-existing conditions, then too bad.

[chill_wind]

49. Bravo! K & R.

[winyanstaz]

50. K & R...

Sooner or later some of these people are going to figure out that they could rise to great heights of power by actually doing what the people want.
If Kucinich, Brown, Gray or even ron paul run...I shall vote for them next election.
I want someone...ANYONE that will stand up to the feds, stand up to the betrayers and treason of the Constitution and restore the law to apply to EVERYONE EQUALLY...and bring the war criminals to trial.

[proud2BlibKansan]

81. Ron Paul!?!?

So you would vote for a racist who opposes choice for women?

[Vidar]

53. Bravo Sen. Brown!

[geiger]

55. so sherrod starts to strike...strategically, finally

reformed health care has been his lifetime political passion. There is no federal legislator better informed on the issue.

[AzDar]

56. K & R

:kick:

[Plucketeer]

58. GREAT MOVE!

Now IF ONLY we can GET a PO that's worth having.

[adamuu]

59. All the Democrats should.

And all their staff... While we're at it, why not all federal employees? This increases the insurance pool. Large insurance pool is better than restricting it to only those who cannot get insurance by other means.

[adamuu]

60. He must see the big picture. n/t

[adamuu]

61. Senator Sherrod Brown will appear on Countdown at 8:15pm. @ SenSherrodBrown says

@SenSherrodBrown
Sen. Brown on Keith Olbermann tonight at 8:15 p.m. 2 talk pub option and health reform #hcr - staff.
18 minutes ago from TweetDeck

[SallyMander]

66. Thanks for the heads-up!

:hi:

[DesertDiamond]

62. Sherrod Brown is always great!

[leftstreet]

63. K&R

[SandWalker1984]

64. No Emmy awards just yet

Not so fast!

This is political grandstanding by Senator Brown as he knows that the public option is in the process of being killed -- by corporate Democrats. He also knows that this political grandstanding will give him plausible political cover because he can say he tried, but he couldn't get enough senators on board to demand an acceptable public option plan. So therefore, he has to go along with the corporate private health insurance scheme to get us comprehensive health "care."

Nice showmanship, Senator Brown, but I refuse to be a cheerleader. No Emmy on this performance.

This was put out today: Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del., along with Sens. Mark Begich of Alaska and Mark Warner of Va., are taking the lead in crafting a compromise. The idea remains a work in progress, but the three presented the outlines Thursday evening in a private meeting with about a half-dozen other moderates. As described by Carper and Begich to reporters, the compromise would put a nonprofit insurance option in place only in states that didn't meet certain criteria for affordability and access. Instead of being controlled by the government, the plan could be run by a nonprofit board, and any initial government startup money would be repaid.

The public option, for the 1%, is now being further watered down to a trigger for a not for profit run plan. (Ask anyone who has Blue Cross what they are now paying.) Not for profit, my donkey.

Health insurance premiums up 87%, profits up 428% -- so let's give the industry millions more victims and money!

That's what the Democrats are proposing with both of these bills in Congress.

Harry Reid stripped the provision out of the Senate bill that would have overturned the insurance industry's anti-trust exemptions.

There's nothing in either bill to address the out of control premium increases, premium price gouging, reimbursing customers at "customary" rates vs "prevailing" rates, or denial altogether of a treatment or procedure they deem too expensive.

Under both bills, the most affordable comprehensive policies will be allowed to cover only 60% of your medical costs (vs commonly paid 80% now). One hospital stay can wipe out your entire savings EVEN IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE.

You will be MANDATED to purchase private for profit insurance but they will not be MANDATED to provide affordable, comprehensive care or preventative care.

It will be play or pay -- you don't want to give the private insurance corporations up to 8% of your hard earned income for high deductible, low coverage, i.e. practically useless insurance plan -- tough! Pay the fines or go to jail.

Don't count on the promised subsidies -- when the Repubs get back in again, in 2010 or 2012 (especially if the corporate Dems pass a monstrosity of a bill like this), they will reduce or eliminate most of the subsidies. After all, they had no problems cutting the CHIPS health care insurance for children.

The only hope of competition and affordability was the Medicare-style "public option." It has been reduced down to availability to only 1% of the population and may be further reduced to "trigger" status. The public option will be killed off before the final vote.

Lieberman and these phony conservative Democrats tell us, the middle class working Americans paying the taxes, that we cannot have a public option yet they are ok with expanding Medicaid, under this bill, by 30 million, and forcing us the taxpayers to pay for it. Medicaid IS a public, government run, health care option. Hypocrites!!!

Insurance corporations can still deny you coverage for thousands of reasons, as long as they don't exclude you for a pre-existing condition. If you are kicked out of your insurance plan, you will then be forced to pay a fine for failure to have insurance. Double whammy!

Since they deleted the Dennis Kucinich amendment to let states create their own single payer systems, insurance corporations could potentially, under proposed bills, sue states for developing their own single payer plans as unfair competition.

The big drug companies will continue to overcharge because the White House cut a deal with them and told Congress hands off.

Legal price gouging, legal price fixing in the health "care" system will continue.

The only difference is that the industry will gain apprximately 48 million new victims for which they can make more profits from off of human illness.

Passing this Corporate Health Insurance Profit Protection Act will be disastrous for Americans and for Democrats.

You cannot pass a monstrosity of a bill like this and "fix" it later. The corporations will use their new found profits to become stronger, buy more members of Congress, and block any reforms.

After all, they are keeping the governor of California from signing into law a state single payer plan that passed both houses of their legislature. That takes tremendous power!

The only decent thing to do at this point is to KILL BOTH BILLS and start over. The Democrats know this but are dancing around the obvious, in hopes you'll ignore the fact that they are planning to pass exactly what the insurance corporations want - mandates to buy private insurance you cannot afford with no competition from the government of, by and for the people.

I've looked behind the curtain and don't like what I found there -- Democrats owned by the corporations they are supposed to be regulating on our behalf.

ENOUGH!!!

[No Elephants]

97. I guess his refusing health insurance for the past 17 years has been "grandstanding," too?

[DissedByBush]

67. The Republicans were right but of course for the wrong reason

It would be fun to see the Democrats say "Okay, let's do it" and turn that poison pill into good medicine.

[mascarax]

68. Chris Dodd video - asks to be added to Coburn Amendment

as mentioned above...invokes Sen. Kennedy and their earlier support for Coburn (no doubt to Coburn's utter confusion).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlEAuS-VfsQ

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

69. sadly, Congressman Butterfield (D-NC) said he wouldn't go on public option

because, because.... he's a congressman and doesn't have to do that.

He ruined an otherwise perfect Town Hall meeting on health care.

How could he say he's above public health care?

[femrap]

70. I think he is the smartest

Senator of the bunch...well, the smartest who is on our side.

I love the guy.

[cyclezealot]

80. The Dems' have a bunch of smart guys..

In terms of their intellect- I'd say they include, Senators Sanders, Brown, Whitehouse, Feingold, and Franken.

[No Elephants]

98. Sanders is not a Democrat, though he caucuses with Democrats. However, being smart

is very widespread among Democratic Senators. Being principled is rarer.

[mstinamotorcity]

71. I am glad someone is listening

Thank you Mr.Brown. Right now they are talking about what to do .I have been screaming from the top of my lungs that this is some bull. If we can pay for there health care then we should have it too. Now my question is what do we do so that we make this s--t happen what can we do.Look like some emails need to go out. Is there a way that there can be an injunction on their health care as a violation of Americas civil rights. Because every time i hear one of them trolls, they are always talking about smaller government. I know if you remove the health care budget for Capitol Hill and its dependants that would surly decrease the deficit.Take away their health care then they would not understand. Let them pay for their own well being. Let them pick themselves up by their boot straps.The fact is they have taken away every thing from us and the economy jobs,homes,cars,retirement savings,401k,small business,big business,mom and pop business,small farms,clean air,sons,daughters,friends,fathers,mothers,pride,and some of us even are tears.Then walk around with this arrogant posturing like how dare we ask for a basic human right.They tell us we need a majority senate with sixty, a majority house,a Democratic President. we did. and they sell us out for their own gain.look like the American people have a fight on their hands. I wonder how long they believe it will be peaceful.:think: Once again thanks Mr. Brown.Need great thinkers.Still waiting for one voice.

[johnaries]

72. If "government-run health care" is so bad, then why do so many

Congressional members use it?
:shrug:

[24601]

75. "Government-run" is the wrong description. Up to about 70% of

their premium is "Government Paid", but that's because Government is performing the employer role. The insurance plans available under the Federal Employee Health Benefit Plan (FEHBP) are themselves private. I'm in the same program and my carrier is Blue Cross, definitely not part of the government.

[eridani]

82. This actually scares the shit out of me

What you are seeing is the consequences of passing a "reform" bill that forces people to buy completely shitty "coverage." The Repukes are already starting in with their fake populism schtick. And people will buy it when they realized what garbage they have been stuck with. Brown realizes this, but hardly any other Dems aside from Kucinich seem to.

[mascarax]

84. Franken joins as co-sponsor now too - video w/Brown

nice exchange between Al and Sherrod on other thread:

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x410148

[YOY]

87. Sherrod is a family friend.

A real Democrat.

If he calls us and asks a favor of us he's got it...as long as it's within our power and legal.

[wordpix]

114. lucky you, he's a great friend to have, love the guy

[mother earth]

90. Absolutely, why should they get better than those they are

"representing". We need some new rules. Campaign finance reform being at the top of the list, with voting audit trails along with scores of other safeguards, no more lifetime benefits for anyone including presidents.

[C_Lawyer09]

92. Every time I get excited by a Congressman

About their perceived "stand alone" for the people mentality, as I have Brown in the area of medical care, I find out somthing that sours it to a degree. Top campaign contributions from the accounting industry, 89-2001. Sherrod Brown, #4, 198,565. I applaud him for his health care stand, but so many are drawing from banking, accounting, insurance, etc. so it just kind of sours the good news. Dodd, and Wyden, who was one of my favorites are in the Senate top five. Dascheles wife, Landrieus aunt, Breaux' son, Reids son, and Bingamans wife are all highly paid lobbyists for industries that don't align themselves with the Democratic ideal. Daschle himself is now also a highly paid lobbyist fighting the interests of many Democrats that need some help.

[Cirque du So-What]

94. I've just changed my avatar to Sherrod Brown

It had been Rep. Henry Waxman, but I have a Senator in whom I can take pride, so going local.

Isn't it time to get some new avatars in the DU gallery? I don't think any have been added since Arbusto W. Fuckstick's first stolen term in office!

[high density]

99. Let's face it, the public option will be better if the Repukes have to 'suffer' under it as well.

They will make sure it's pretty good if they have to deal with it themselves.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wordpix]

112. our next president!!!!

[Garam_Masala]

115. Go Sherrod! Expose the selfish bastards!

These goddam politicians are creating a lame public option for the
unwashed masses but want to keep their separate Cadillac plan fully paid
for by tax payers. What a bunch of hypocritical, selfish, morons!