More than 50 papers join in front-page (editorial) on climate change

[Newsjock]

Source: The Guardian

The Guardian has teamed up with more 50 papers worldwide to run the same front-page leader article calling for action at the climate summit in Copenhagen, which begins tomorrow.

This unprecedented project is the result of months of negotiations between the papers to agree on a final text, in a process that mirrors the kind of diplomatic wrangling among the world's governments that is likely to precede any potential deal on climate change.

Fifty-six papers in 45 countries published in 20 different languages have joined the initiative, and will feature the leader in some form on their front pages.

... Alan Rusbridger, editor-in-chief of the Guardian, said: "Newspapers have never done anything like this before but they have never had to cover a story like this before. No individual newspaper editorial could hope to influence the outcome of Copenhagen but I hope the combined voice of 56 major papers speaking in 20 languages will remind the politicians and negotiators gathering there what is at stake – and persuade them to rise above the rivalries and inflexibility that have stood in the way of a deal."

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/dec/06/50-papers-leader-climate-change

---

In the USA, only ONE English-language newspaper is part of this: The Miami Herald. Kudos to them, shame on the rest.
Full list of participating newspapers: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/06/papers-copenhagen-leader

[babylonsister]

1. Recommend. Take that, Inhofe, and all you whackadoos. nt

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ghost Dog]

50. Hmm. Saw this with 79 recs on the greatest page,

clicked to read and it was at 73 recs.

+1.

...Few believe that Copenhagen can any longer produce a fully polished treaty; real progress towards one could only begin with the arrival of President Obama in the White House and the reversal of years of US obstructionism. Even now the world finds itself at the mercy of American domestic politics, for the president cannot fully commit to the action required until the US Congress has done so.

But the politicians in Copenhagen can and must agree the essential elements of a fair and effective deal and, crucially, a firm timetable for turning it into a treaty. Next June's UN climate meeting in Bonn should be their deadline. As one negotiator put it: "We can go into extra time but we can't afford a replay."

...

The transformation will be costly, but many times less than the bill for bailing out global finance — and far less costly than the consequences of doing nothing...

/... http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/06/copenhagen-editorial

[Cirque du So-What]

2. K & R

To my knowledge, this is unprecedented. Unless a nation wants to acquire pariah status, they will get serious about climate change. Glad to see the message is being taken to the people - all around the world.

[DavidDvorkin]

3. My God, 50 newspapers are part of the evil scientific plot!!!

[bergie321]

38. That is

A lot of emails to hack...

[No Elephants]

40. Everyone knows all newspapers everywhere have a liberal bias.

:sarcasm:

[LiberalFighter]

4. Only American paper represented is the Miami Herald.

[jtrockville]

5. I'd have at least expected McClatchy to join in too.

[Newsjock]

6. Miami Herald is part of McClatchy these days

Got snapped up in the Knight Ridder acquisition.

[jtrockville]

10. Ah, I didn't know that. Makes sense though.

[kestrel91316]

26. Miami knows it will be one of the first to drown.

[No Elephants]

41. That's impressive, given that, everytime I see something to which I truly

cannot relate at all, it seems to involve Texas or Florida.

On edit: I take that back. I've seen things to which I cannot relate from every state, including my own. However, Texas and Florida do seem to me to pop up more often.

[blackbart99]

56. I hear ya NO E...

My wife and I comment on that regularly....Florida and Texas seem to have an over abundance of
how do you say.....well we'll just leave it at that!!! :dunce: :hide: :yoiks:

[AlbertCat]

67. TX & FL

Wholly owned subsidiaries of the Bush Crime Family.

[tosh]

95. This thought deserves a thread of its own.

The Texas/Florida phenomena, that is.

[SidDithers]

7. Glad to see The Toronto Star in there...

I'll be watching for it when it hits my doorstep tomorrow morning.

Sid

[tabatha]

8. Thank you, thank you newspapers.

"will remind the politicians and negotiators gathering there what is at stake"

[DavidDvorkin]

9. It will be interesting to see their letters columns after this

Lots of angry idiots and lots of letters repeating the same industry talking points, I expect.

[PatrynXX]

22. angry idiots never watched CSI before

Now how many characters on that show (including and often angrily wrong Warrick Brown . miss that character) went thru the evidence and made false conclusions? Thats science.

[DavidDvorkin]

31. Interesting point

Too many people who are anti-science in some areas also think that in other areas science is incredibly powerful, infallible, monolithic, and hierarchical. So a single error or modification to a theory is taken as license to throw everything out.

[clear eye]

11. I liked the Herald's coverage on the electoral problems

w/ the Presidential elections in 2000 (although they were a little late to the party).

Maybe I'll start checking their online edition. I've been reading The Guardian. It pretty much posts all its stories and has good coverage of the U.S..

[BlueMTexpat]

62. It has better coverage of the US generally than US newspapers do,

which is one reason why English speakers around the world generally know a lot more about what is happening in our own country than we do.
The Independent is also excellent.
Bravo, Miami Herald!

[flamingdem]

12. yes we can, maybe, on climate change .. nt

[No Elephants]

42. Yes, we can, maybe, a little bit, on climate change.

Can't go too fast. We might actually impact something favorably before we all drown or burst into flames.

[wial]

13. wow

and shame on all of us for letting Bush and any republican anywhere near power, ever. Failure to grasp scientific fact should legally disqualify politicians from office. It's like having doctors who believe in homeopathy.

strongly worded as that article is, it doesn't dare cite the data predicting the full 6C by 2100, or mention the clathrate and other tipping points. Even that article is conservative, compared with the truth, and even its contemptuous treatment of American politicians is mild compared with what they deserve.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bc3000]

15. Are you a scientist?

I'm not, so I choose to listen to the scientists.

Try it out. It's a win-win. If they are right, you're not a complete idiot for listening to corporate propaganda over scientific consensus on a scientific matter. If they're wrong, you still can't really be faulted for following the advice of experts.

[emilyg]

18. Which scientists will you listen to. They

don't seem to agree.

[Lorien]

24. Every climate scientist with papers published in PEER REVIEWED journals

DOES agree. The rest are paid off by Exxon-mobil.

[kestrel91316]

28. The PhD climatologists all agree. Scientists who are not climatologists

may have an alternate opinion, but I see no reason to listen to them. They aren't experts on the subject.

[JackDragna]

93. It's not just climatologists.

Climate change has been accepted by every major scientific organization that deals with chemistry, oceanography, geology and any other discipline measuring anything substantive about the Earth and its processes. The deniers are just dumb.

[tinrobot]

16. Did you even read the editorial?

Not once does it mention carbon tax.

[Bluesbreaker]

19. That's even more typical

I too have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I find it sad that you label climate change "a scam" without a scintilla of supporting evidence, even though the preponderance of scientific scholarly research supports climate change caused by human activity. On the other hand, I find it laughable that so many on the right reflexively side with oil and coal companies and the corporations whose profits depend almost entirely on extracting and selling fossil fuels--the same companies, by the way, that fund all of the studies questioning global warming.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on him not understanding it."

-- Upton Sinclair

[Lorien]

25. Well said. nt

[Mithreal]

52. What Lorien said

[FarLeftFist]

20. Sounds familiar....

"Tell a lie often enough and it becomes truth" ~~ Lenin.

Sounds like the FOX "news" motto.

[kestrel91316]

27. Oh, ok. Tell us, then, where and when you got your PhD in climatology,

and then post your argument for why Arrhenius was in error. And provide original long form documentation of the data you use.

[Mithreal]

48. good question

[patrice]

82. Whamm!!!

Or as the cool kids say, "Oh, snap!"

Either way, that's hitting them where they live.

[Kali]

29. like freaking toadstools

every climate change post has brand new deniers

oh enjoy your stay

[No Elephants]

44. Or same old deniers with brand new screen names.

I think you have to be reading (and maybe also posting) here fairly consistently to be the 14th post on a thread.

Same kind of thing happens with threads that start or end up being about guns, threads dissing the Confederacy, etc. Either you see a lot of screen names with under 1000 posts, or names with a lot of posts that you see posting mostly or only on that one subject. Seems as though at least some of them must be posting here regularly under other names for other subjects.

[Quantess]

37. Oh, so sorry you couldn't stay a bit longer.

[bergie321]

39. Denier sheep

"I find it laughable that so many on the left are so easily brainwashed simply by the media saying the same thing over and over and over."

That....and the whole science thing pointing conclusively, to anyone with even half a brain, that global climate change is happening and we are causing it.

[Quixote1818]

45. You have been brainwashed by the Oil and Coal industries

who are sinking millions into confusing people who are not to smart. Twenty years ago when I was in college we learned about Global Warming. A funny thing happened 15 years later. We broke the yearly global temperature record. Hum, what are the chances? Now the North Poll is predicted to be ice free during the summer in less than 20 years and yet some folks cling to the BS the Oil and Coal companies are feeding them. Please do a little more research than going to Drudge every day. Maybe try to take a look at NASA and NOAA's data.

[Ghost Dog]

51. The Guardian, Friday, reported on prominent 'skeptics', and a Rowson cartoon:

Coalition of denial: The sceptics who are trying to reshape the climate debate - http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/04/climate-change-scepticism-climate-change

Climate sceptics: are they gaining any credence? - http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/04/climate-sceptics-public-opinion

... and more links at linked pages...

Martin Rowson Cartoon: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cartoon/2009/dec/05/climate-change-sceptics-gordon-brown

[Quixote1818]

101. Thanks, now I know for sure that Inhofe is owned by gas and oil. nt

[Mithreal]

47. Hahaahhaaa, omg that was a good one.

The earth isn't doomed, it's just gonna a get a whole lot less comfortable.

You can probably appreciate what George Carlin said about saving the earth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=948Nm34arfA

My degree is in Biology from the University of Michigan, care to divulge the extent of your education? I am gonna take a guess. Business and more specifically, Marketing. Was I close?

It's Climate Change by the way but you probably know that.

One of my favorite science resources, check it out:
http://www.physorg.com/search/?search=climate+change

[patrice]

84. Marketing or an End Timer, who is looking forward to there being quite a bit fewer of the wrong kind

of people around.

[winyanstaz]

54. Exactly...and now the truth is coming out and they are braying louder than ever...

What drives me crazy is when otherwise intelligent people can sit in front of the greatest tool to find the truth the world has ever known and then refuse to push a mouse long enough to find the truth before they start posting.
It also tends to be the same people falling for the scare tactics, the scams and ponzi schemes, lies and propaganda over and over again.

[patrice]

85. People who are so habituated to talking to other people who never require FACTS that they

are completely unaware of what bias is and the difference between opinion and fact.

As TS Eliot said, "We are the hollow men, we are the stuffed men, leaning together, headpiece filled with straw. Alas, our dried voices, when we whisper together, are quiet and meaningless as wind in dried grass or rats' feet over broken glass in our dried cellar . . ."

[winyanstaz]

98. exactly.....

I have seen many of the leaked memos where they actually talk about how to jiggle the data...I have also seen the charts they didn't want us to see..you know..the ones that show ALL the rises and falls over the many centuries.
The earth has a long long history of warming and cooling..and guess what? We have stopped warming already and are now cooling again.
I will let you do your own homework :)

[PaulaFarrell]

102. oh please show us

you know "the charts they didn't want us to see..you know..the ones that show ALL the rises and falls over the many centuries."w

please oh please, a single link????? oh no we have to 'do our own homework'..could that be because those links don't exist? but, if you're lucky, you will have done your job and sown doubt in a few minds? just curious, what's the going rate for a cyberwhore?

[patrice]

103. links please along with the credentials of those who produced this "informattion"

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[winyanstaz]

118. sorry my reply was deleted because some of the links went to sites not allowed.

I will again direct you to use google.

[fasttense]

58. Oh no, run for the hills, a group of mad scientists are conspiring to save the planet.

We are doomed because practically every single scientist, who has published credible studies about climate in peer reviewed publications, is in on this global warming hoax.

See, their dirty little secret is to make us all use environmentally sound, clean and cheaper alternative energy sources so that carbon is reduced and the climate improves. It's a conspiracy to force mankind to breathe clean air, drink clean, free, fresh water and walk on uncontaminated land.

And the most damaging result from this cabal is to make humans lives more comfortable and easier, even the poor. It will allow for diversified animals and plant species to survive for centuries. We can't have this.

Our elite masters, CEOs of monolithic oil corporations, coal barons, carbon lobbyists and crazy right wing nuts, are the only people selected by God to reap the rewards from energy consumption. Only the multi-billionaires, uber wealthy and Middle Eastern kings should be allowed to gain profits from the use of energy. They are entitled to their ever growing vast fortunes and we must bow down to their perfect understanding of our economic and environmental needs. You know the CEOs, trust fund children and the royals only have our best interest at heart.

While crazy scientist insist on observations and tested data to make changes in order for our planet to survive. We are all doomed to save our earth if we don't listen to the corporate loving, Christian hate mongers. They tells us nothing needs changing, life is perfect now. Even if vast stretches of land are turning to deserts it is what god intended, and of course only they know what god wants. Leave it alone or we will all have a healthier life.

Horror of horrors, we may actually do something good for the environment and cut the profits of CEOs, uber wealthy, Middle Eastern kings, princes and royalty.

Stop the madness.....:sarcasm:

[SavageDem]

64. Hardy har-har-har!

My hat is - digitally - off to you, sir (ma'am?). You voiced my thoughts precisely, although with greater clarity.

These morans that think that cleaning up the Earth is a bad idea never cease to amaze me. "What, you're against your children actually living aboveground in a non-Robocop future?"

[twitomy]

60. Here's a quote from Eisenhower which I think applies:

"The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite."

Especially the scientific-technological elite who would bastardize data to further an agenda...

Ohh by the way, guess who invented "carbon trading"..Ken Lay...Yep THAT Ken Lay..

Scam anyone?

[SavageDem]

66. Yes, I'm so terrified of the "scientific-technological elite"

Who wouldn't be horrified at the thought of using scientific research to promote a cleaner planet and safer world for everyone? For figuring out how to produce energy and feed the world without raping the environment and destroying species?

I refuse to be dominated by your cyberNazis any longer! Please save me, Oil Executives for Jesus! Bring the Rapture now so everyone can die and be...saved?

:sarcasm:

[tinrobot]

17. Here's the actual editorial

Today 56 newspapers in 45 countries take the unprecedented step of speaking with one voice through a common editorial. We do so because humanity faces a profound emergency.

Unless we combine to take decisive action, climate change will ravage our planet, and with it our prosperity and security. The dangers have been becoming apparent for a generation. Now the facts have started to speak: 11 of the past 14 years have been the warmest on record, the Arctic ice-cap is melting and last year's inflamed oil and food prices provide a foretaste of future havoc. In scientific journals the question is no longer whether humans are to blame, but how little time we have got left to limit the damage. Yet so far the world's response has been feeble and half-hearted.

Climate change has been caused over centuries, has consequences that will endure for all time and our prospects of taming it will be determined in the next 14 days. We call on the representatives of the 192 countries gathered in Copenhagen not to hesitate, not to fall into dispute, not to blame each other but to seize opportunity from the greatest modern failure of politics. This should not be a fight between the rich world and the poor world, or between east and west. Climate change affects everyone, and must be solved by everyone.

The science is complex but the facts are clear. The world needs to take steps to limit temperature rises to 2C, an aim that will require global emissions to peak and begin falling within the next 5-10 years. A bigger rise of 3-4C — the smallest increase we can prudently expect to follow inaction — would parch continents, turning farmland into desert. Half of all species could become extinct, untold millions of people would be displaced, whole nations drowned by the sea. The controversy over emails by British researchers that suggest they tried to suppress inconvenient data has muddied the waters but failed to dent the mass of evidence on which these predictions are based.

More :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/06/copenhagen-editorial

[silverweb]

21. Way to go!

:applause:

[VPStoltz]

23. How many gajillions did we spend on nuclear weapons with absolutely no idea they would ever used.

It climate change is a cycle, and during the extreme cycles all life on Earth is wiped out, why not do something about slowing it down even IF we don't know what will happen.

[kestrel91316]

30. The denialists WANT all life on earth to be wiped out. Their bible

says that the earth is tainted, or "fallen", therefore evil, and needs to be destroyed. They eagerly await rapturing up to heaven.

Oh, and then some of them are just greedy fossil fuel profiteers.

[No Elephants]

43. IMO, they want to maximize profit NOW, even at the eventual cost of human life on earth.

They give the sheeple any excuse for that, even ones that are supposedly Biblically based. However, Biblically based ones don't stack up against Jesus's parables about stewardship; and more and more sincere evangelical leaders have been realizing that. The rest are either very easily brainwashed or shills for the profiteerers, or both.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BennyD]

65. You need to stop playing chess while so many others are still struggling with checkers! n/t

[patrice]

88. You know that one's getting pretty lame don't you. Clue: Try not to repeat what others say; it's a

sign of the inability to think.

[BennyD]

90. It was original to me. I wasn't plagiarizing; so mind your own business! n/t

[winyanstaz]

97. thanks....I see you can think more than three moves ahead as well.

[bergie321]

77. Where is your proof?

If it was all a scam, don't you think all of the oil and coal companies, with their billions of dollars of annual profits, would have been able to prove it false?

[patrice]

87. Let's see now, because someones were somewhat in error in the past, others cannot be

more accurate or valid now.

Of course you realize this is a non-sequitur don't you?

[winyanstaz]

96. We also know they are not accurate now...

While main stream is ignoring the scandal as hard as they can....the truth is all over the internet. Do a little homework...they got busted for lying about the data.

[patrice]

104. It's your assertion, not mine, you do "the homework".

[winyanstaz]

110. ok..if you scroll up to an earlier post..I did your homework for you...

:)

[Overseas]

32. Yaaaaay! K&R! Been watching more international news this weekend

and lots of other countries are earnestly looking at the science and the empirical evidence of accelerated climatic destabilization and looking forward to Copenhagen with hope for some urgent solutions to get started.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

34. After having squashed any news of it for

the past 85 years plus some ,I would say that's a right fine start. Better late than never I suppose.

What's left of the rest of those newspapers in this country will stand behind the old bush .

Fifty plus newspapers in 20 languages ,that could start something. There has never been a global voice of the people on the subject line. Could relfect a glimmer of hope.

[racetoinfinity]

35. Bill McKibben gives a sobering but smart view

Bill McKibben - Why Copenhagen May Be a Disaster - http://tinyurl.com/yf4zr2v

[Garam_Masala]

36. If China does not join, it is a lame effort

China is building coal power plants at the rate of ONE EVERY WEEK!
China is also now the worlds top manufacturer.
If China does not sign into climate change pact, any pact coming out of
Copenhagen is lame.

Same thing applies to India on a bit smaller scale.

[Mithreal]

46. China to lead the way in electric cars

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2009-05/31/content_7955264.htm

Do you advocate blaming China and India?

"In London, Berlin, Brussels, Glasgow, Vienna, Paris, Dublin and other cities thousands and thousands of protesters took the streets to demand strong action from their leaders at the Copenhagen talks. In Berlin protesters acting as world leaders sat in a massive aquarium negotiating a climate treaty while the water in the tank kept rising till world-leaders needed to stop talking as their very survival was threatened and in London over 60.000 people joined the annual London climate march. In Vienna people formed a massive clock on the ground to demonstrate how time is tcking away and in France flashmobs were happening around the country including Paris."
http://www.350.org/about/blogs/europeans-take-streets-demanding-strong-climate-action

Someone should tell the people of the world, China, India and the US are just too broken for there to be any meaningful change at Copenhagen. Better to do nothing, accept and adapt. On the bright side, President Obama will finally be attending the end of it. I blame that on all those people writing and calling the WH and their reps demanding he attend. Suckers. Hey wait, I called and wrote too.

[Garam_Masala]

105. India just signed a pact with Russia to build nuclear power plants

Nuclear power plants emit zero carbon dioxide, sulphur dioxide etc.
SO they are on the right track. I just read a report which said
India will generate TEN times the power over current capacity using
nuclear power.

[Mithreal]

49. India, China agree to cooperate on climate change

India and China, both major polluters and crucial players in fighting global warming, agreed Wednesday to stand together on climate change issues at a major global conference later this year.

The December summit in Copenhagen aims to replace the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, the first international deal requiring reductions in emissions of heat-trapping "greenhouse gases" by industrialized countries.

http://www.physorg.com/news175339762.html

[Mithreal]

53. Worth a laugh even if it is from Bush era, but still relevant

[Garam_Masala]

86. Hehe .. eom

[superconnected]

55. Who'd have thought all those European Newspapers would be part of the US liberal agenda

This is clearly an assault on Republicans, I mean what else could it mean... that climate change may be real? I don't think the republicans can handle that. Clearly Europe hates us for our freedom.

[NecklyTyler]

59. K&R

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. One US paper: "Go to hell"

The story behind the project is here. My guess is this was the Wall Street Journal.

Anyone studying the list of newspapers behind the editorial will quickly spot one glaring gap: the absence of any first-rank US paper. A number of major US titles evinced support for the project, even conceding that they agreed with everything in the editorial, but stopped short of signing up, leaving the admirably independent-minded Miami Herald as the sole representative of the world's second biggest polluter. (Next time you're in Florida buy two copies.) It is hard not to be struck by the parallel with the Kyoto agreement when the US stood to one side as the world began to move against climate change.

Another Kyoto holdout is also unrepresented: both the Sydney Morning Herald and Melbourne Age dropped out of the project after climate change convulsed Australian politics, demanding, they felt, a more localised editorial position.

But anyone contemplating the prospects of success in Copenhagen might be cheered that even the newspapers that turned down an invitation to join the project were unerringly supportive of the idea. With one notable exception, that is. One US paper's response: "This is an outrageous attempt to orchestrate media pressure. Go to hell."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/06/climate-change-leader-editorial

[Jim__]

68. The Miami Herald and El Nuevo Herald (sister newspaper to Miami Herald)

and also a McClatchy newspaper - worth a mention.

[stubtoe]

73. Well there you have it. MSM USA = Corporate Newz

disgusting

[BennyD]

63. Shame on the participants of this conference for

producing 40,000 tons of C02 just getting there. That's more than some countries put together produce in an entire year! I get tire of the 'upper class' telling me to cut back when they aren't willing to lead by example. Screw them!

[PaulaFarrell]

69. The emssions will be offset

by the building of 20 new brick kilns in Bangladesh. Offsets this year's emission plus 50,000 tons every year after that.

The emissions are for the entire conference, not 'just getting there'.

And the only countries emitting less than 40,000 tonnnes (2006 figures) are Kiribati, Wallis & Futuna, ST Helena & Niue. The only one I have every heard of is St Helena but I think we can all agree they are probably very tiny islands.

ANyway, keep up with the disinformation, so everyone can see exactly what you stand for.

[muriel_volestrangler]

70. Ironically, Kiribati is one of the groups of islands set to disappear

if there is a moderate sea level rise. See http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0912/S00100.htm

Each year villagers need to head further inland to find fresh food and water, but Kiribati's 33 coral atolls and islands are skinny and average a height above sea level of only two metres. Inland goes back only so far.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/land-of-the-rising-sea-20091120-iqub.html

[Kali]

72. hey

don't confuse the denier with real info

[fascisthunter]

74. ...it's all or nothing, huh?

It comes down to how much do YOU care about Our planet? Don't let feul consumption by others dictate your stance on an issue... you either care or don't... your call.

[BennyD]

75. what I call is hypocrisy! n/t

[fascisthunter]

76. do you really care?

or are you looking for an excuse? I care and I sure as hell won't let what you posted make me care less about Global Warming. Something tells me you really don't care about global warming and are looking for any way possible to illegitimize this effort to curb CO2 emisions. Did ya think they'd flap their arms all the way to the conference?

[BennyD]

91. Good for you...

do all you can to help curb C02 emissions, but I never see these "chicken littles" flying COMMERCIAL airlines. They fly their PRIVATE air planes. You probably raise hell when you see one person driving a big SUV without a single passenger, but you're silent when one of these front men for global warming produces more C02 in a single trip then the person driving the SUV will in their entire lives.


Now you're bordering on hypocrisy!

[JackDragna]

94. It may seem silly..

..but governments don't listen unless panels like this are convened.

[PaulaFarrell]

99. What's a front man for global warming?

Just curious.

Let's do a little more math.

plane trip UK-Australia 10 tonnes

Co2 emission per capita US (2006 figures) 19 tonnes

liftime expenditure of an average US citizen 70 x 19 = 1240 tonnes


even the top range private jet emits only 5 tonnes per hour and I can't imagine a trip on this being longer than 10 hours so max 50 tonnes (assuming only one person is on the plane - in reality ther will be several )- again far less than the average US citizen in a lifetime - seems once again you are pulling random figures from out of your ass

fact of the matter is, it's very hard to get to Copenhagen from the Seychelles or the Maldives without flying, but very few of these people (if any) will be flying privately. but kudos for the dinsformation.

ps never heard of the copenhagen express?

[BennyD]

116. by "front men" I simply mean

anyone whose face is attached to the movement - nothing else.

[fascisthunter]

100. no... actually what little I do and you do, is good for everyone

To be honest, I'd rather see these politicans travel more efficiently, but that's not happening, and what I am more concerned with, are the results of this conference. Once regulations are put in place, I won't have to worry about single folks driving large SUV's just to look manly or rugged, because if people take global warming seriously, the SUV will be heavily modified or junked to meet more rigged standards.

So once again... do you care or are you fishing for an angle to call these folks hypocrites, because you never really addressed anything else regarding this article? Your only point was in regard to how they all travel...

[BennyD]

117. No, I wasn't "fishing for an angle." As I said,

I was only making an observation, nothing else.

[kestrel91316]

108. If they are offsetting the CO2 by building those kilns in India, HOW, PRAY TELL,

are they hypocritical??????????

[Warren Stupidity]

80. I see you have your talking points all set.

Good luck.

[BennyD]

92. What you call a "talking point," I call an observation. n/t

[Nihil]

115. What you call an "observation", I call "following a script". (n/t)

:eyes:

[Psephos]

111. The habitual accusational use of the phrase "talking point" is itself a talking point.

BennyD is pointing out hypocrisy, and all I see on this thread is apologists saying look over there, a puppy! It is EXACTLY what the the Family Values pugs do when one of them gets caught foot-tapping in the men's room or wearing diapers with hookers.

Fuck the kilns in Bangladesh. Paying poor people to change their behavior for rich peoples' indulgences is morally disgusting and economically corrupt. The numbers I've seen say that perhaps 20% of the supposed CO2 benefit is realized. Mostly it's kabuki, like household waste recycling. If someone wants to lower their net C02 emissions, then they need to change their own behavior.

I will not be lectured to by hypocrites who tell me to do one thing while they do the opposite.

[Warren Stupidity]

119. Uh, no it isn't.

You do not appear to understand what a talking point is. While noting that somebody is regurgitating the official republican party press release propaganda positions on an issue might be commonplace and trite, in general it is not in itself a talking point. The fact of the matter is that all this hair pulling over the arrival of diplomats, heads of state, ceos and other members of the global elite at Copenhagen using their usual mode and style of transportation is irrelevant idiocy intended as usual to deflect and divert. Climate scientists don't travel in private jets or limousines unless some rich person gives them a ride. This is a global conference that includes all sorts, including the sorts that travel by private jet. So what? What the heck does that have to do with anything? It is just mode 'Al Gore's Big House' rightwing moron distractions.

The look its a puppy is exactly what this 'issue' is about. One gets to an international conference from far away by jet. Heads of state and diplomats and rich people travel by private car, and typically armored car for the first two, because they got kidnapped and killed if they don't, especially when the go to huge high profile events.

[kestrel91316]

107. Welcome to DU. Enjoy your brief stay.

[fascisthunter]

71. Good, but of course the same morons

are here telling us this stuff is fake. Probably the same morons who think Afghanistan and Iraq are worth it.

[seafan]

78. International editorial on climate change. In only one U. S. English-language paper.

From today's Guardian:


December 7, 2009

Copenhagen climate change conference: 'Fourteen days to seal history's judgment on this generation'

This editorial will be published tomorrow by 56 newspapers around the world in 20 languages including Chinese, Arabic and Russian. The text was drafted by a Guardian team during more than a month of consultations with editors from more than 20 of the papers involved. Like the Guardian most of the newspapers have taken the unusual step of featuring the editorial on their front page.

The only English-language newspaper in the US to publish this editorial was the Miami Herald.


We are seeing media censorship still at work, and that includes the Miami Herald.




First of all, it is noteworthy that the Miami Herald chose not to place this full editorial on its front page-- there is only a small blurb at the bottom right corner directing readers to the editorial page.


Second, the editorial's title has been changed.

Third, it is quite interesting to note that the Herald has edited out significant points from the editorial's text. The obvious effect is to shadow the unabashed truth from the reader.



I have highlighted some of the most interesting edits below. The red text was omitted from the Miami Herald's version of this international editorial.

Seize the moment on climate change

December 7, 2009


Today 56 newspapers in 45 countries take the unprecedented step of speaking with one voice through a common editorial. We do so because humanity faces a profound emergency. Unless we combine to take decisive action, climate change will ravage our planet, and with it our prosperity and security.

.....

In scientific journals the question is no longer whether humans are to blame, but how little time we have got left to limit the damage. Yet so far the world's response has been feeble and half-hearted.

.....

This should not be a fight between the rich world and the poor world or between east and west.

.....

Few believe that Copenhagen can produce a fully polished treaty; real progress toward one could only begin with the arrival of President Obama in the White House and the reversal of years of U.S. obstructionism. Even now the world finds itself at the mercy of American domestic politics, for the president cannot fully commit to the action required until the US Congress has done so. But the politicians in Copenhagen can and must agree on the essential elements of a fair and effective deal and, crucially, a firm timetable for turning it into a treaty. Next June's U.N. climate meeting in Bonn should be their deadline. As one negotiator put it: "We can go into extra time but we can't afford a replay."

.....

Rich nations like to point to the arithmetic truth out that there can be no solution until developing giants such as China take more radical steps than they have so far. But the rich world is responsible for most of the accumulated carbon in the atmosphere – three-quarters of all carbon dioxide emitted since 1850.

.....

Developing countries can point out they did not cause the bulk of the problem and also that the poorest regions of the world will be hardest hit.

.....

Social justice demands that The industrialized world should dig deep into its pockets and pledges cash to help poorer countries adapt to climate change and clean technologies to enable them to grow economically without growing their emissions.

.....

And fairness requires that the burden placed on individual developed countries should take into account their ability to bear it; for instance newer EU members, often much poorer than "old Europe", must not suffer more than their richer partners.


.....

Many of us, particularly in the developed world, will have to change our lifestyles. The era of flights that cost less than the taxi ride to the airport is drawing to a close. We will have to shop, eat and travel more intelligently. We will have to pay more for our energy, and use less of it.

.....

The politicians in Copenhagen have the power to shape history's judgment on this generation: one that saw a challenge and rose to it, or one so stupid that we saw calamity coming but did nothing to avert it. We implore them to make the right choice.

The Miami Herald

The Miami Herald claims that it speaks "..... with one voice through a common editorial..", when it is obvious that that is patently untrue.



So, how many people in our country will read this crucial piece, if it's limited to one English-language paper in the U. S. -- ONE PAPER-- in the country, and that one with substantial censorship of the facts?


The state of so-called mainstream media in this country is an abomination.




Please be sure to read the complete version of this historical editorial at the Guardian link at the top of the post.

[valerief]

79. Two friggin' US papers. We have no free press. nt

[BREMPRO]

81. that is really disappointing that only one US paper is participating

reflection of the politics and lack of guts of the editorial boards here.

[fascisthunter]

83. "Daddy, did you pretend you knew more than the global scientific community?"

can ya see how this will play out in the future...

"...ah... yes dear, I was a stupid m'fer back then, and now it's too late... sorry."

[judesedit]

89. IF EVEN SMALL CHANCE WE ARE CONTRIBUTING TO WARMING, WE SHOULD TRY TO SLOW IT DOWN AS MUCH AS POS

SIBLE....Who cares what people think about it. Whether it is a natural cycle, caused by sunspots, or caused by man, it really doesn't matter. What matters is that we act in such a way to try to reverse or hinder it as much as possible. These people that mock it are only interested in continuing the way we are because they won't make as much $$$$$$ otherwise. And oil companies are probably the biggest fighters against it. Pretty sad when these deniers don't even care about their children's futures. Totally disgusting stagnant bunch who are a major part of the problem.

[robcon]

106. I think the editorial is silly.

A good analysis:

"Considering LiveAid's success at ending hunger in Africa, I'm awfully glad newspapers are finally applying this model to global warming. There's nothing like the sight of fifty-four newspapers performing a synchronized exercise in smug self-congratulation to induce life-altering change.

I am, of course, in favor of not slow-roasting the planet. But these sort of exercises in mindless collectivism are excruciatingly silly. Unsurprisingly, the op-ed it produced was puerile and unlikely to be read by anyone who does not already agree with its premise. If fifty-four newspapers had wanted to make a serious statement about the environment that their readers were sure to pay attention to, they might have stopped printing and distributing their energy intensive product for a day."
http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/cmon_everyone_its_time_for_mas.php

[Mithreal]

113. Example of the logical fallacy called false choice made popular by GWB.

I know you are only sharing, but I disagree with the writer almost 100%. Blaming LiveAid for not ending hunger in Africa is ridiculous. "Now, it is estimated that around £150m has been raised for famine relief as a direct result of the concerts." - wikipedia

I would toss the accusation of exercise in smugness and puerile back at that post.

Ending the post with a false choice further weakened whatever argument was intended. The choices for the people of the World to show unity include the use of media. I don't think the purpose of the 54 newspapers action is to reduce greenhouse gases DIRECTLY, rather it is a demonstration of a united world to the world leaders meeting in Copenhagen.

[muriel_volestrangler]

114. 'Analysis'? That's just name-calling

It doesn't deserve the dignity of being called an analysis.

This is not analogous to LiveAid. An editorial is a standard part of a newspaper; doing a shared one is not remotely like popstars suddenly becoming fundraisers.

She calls it 'mindless'; but it's not. It needed negotiation; some parts were added after discussion, some partners dropped out, others came in later. As the accompanying article about organising it says, there are parallels to the negotiation that the Copenhagen talks have to go through.

'Puerile' is far more appropriate to describe a blog entry that calls others 'smug', silly' and claims there's a connection between popstars and any international collaboration. I highly doubt McArdle is familiar with the readership of all 54 newspapers, so her claim that a front page editorial won't be read by anyone not already convinced looks goddam stupid.

Stopping printing for a day would be highly visible, yes; but then we'd be left with the idiotic ramblings of McArdle to tell us what's going on. And that would ddom the world as fast as Sarah Palin being in charge. I woudln't expect much more than this from a smug libertarian such as her, though.

[Matilda]

112. Nobody has read this in an Australian newspaper.

As the Guardian article states, both "The Age" and "The Sydney Morning Herald" (run by Fairfax newspapers) were to
have taken part, but with the election of ultra-conservative Tony Abbott as Leader of the Opposition Liberal party,
both papers opted out. Toadying to the Coalition nutters.

Fairfax used to be considered centre-left, but in recent years has become more and more conservative. Hardly worth
reading now, as most of the interesting journalists have departed. And as the only major alternative is Murdoch,
the Australian newspaper industry is in a very sad state.

[notesdev]

120. An embarrassment for journalism

A global coordinated propaganda effort like this should scare the hell out of everyone. Journalism is supposed to be objective, it should not provide a platform for one-sided propaganda.

This is about the money that's on the line, it has nothing to do with caring for the planet. If they were serious they'd be running editorials about the pollution in China.

[muriel_volestrangler]

121. This was an editorial; they are meant to be opinion pieces

They are not meant to be 'objective'. I can't think where the hell you got that idea from.

[notesdev]

122. objectivity is the claim to legitimacy of the industry

Ask any journalist, if they are serious about their profession they will claim and take pride in their objectivity.

50+ media outlets coordinating an identical message? That is known as a propaganda blitz.

Honest people don't do that sort of thing. You are being sold a bill of goods.

[muriel_volestrangler]

123. You clearly don't know the definition of 'editorial'

Here it is:

Main Entry: 2editorial
Function: noun
Date: 1830

: a newspaper or magazine article that gives the opinions of the editors or publishers; also : an expression of opinion that resembles such an article <a television editorial>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/editorial

Of course, if they were all being 'objective', they would say the same thing anyway. So, even by your own misdefinition, you shouldn't be complaining.

What happened here was that the editorial teams of many newspapers talked to each other about a joint statement. Such things are the basis of society - talking to people, working out your differences, and then acting together. It's absurd for you to object to it.