China warns rich nations against "shirking responsibility" on climate change (Xinhuanet)

[denem]

Source: Xinhuanet

BEIJING, Dec. 10 (Xinhua) -- China on Thursday warned that the rich nations should not "shift and shirk" responsibility on climate change, and urged them to provide developing countries with funds to deal with the global issue.

"According to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), developed countries have responsibility to offer financial support to all developing countries on mitigating and adapting to climate change," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman told a regular news briefing.

"Funding is one of the key issues that will determine the success or failure of the Copenhagen conference. The offer of funds is the unshirkable responsibility of developed countries," said Jiang...

Reports has quoted Todd Stern, U.S. special envoy for climate change, as saying that the United States would contribute to a fund aimed at helping developing nations deal with climate change, but China would not be a recipient of financial aid as it had a booming economy and large foreign exchange reserves.

Read more: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/10/content_12625720.htm

---

China receives considerable 'financial aid' from a rigged exchange rate and the American consumer, IMO.

[Deja Q]

1. Seconded.

And the quality of their products is suspect, as being communist their government owns the companies there. Never mind they won't put in their own regulations, which in turn pollutes their own cities.

THIS IS NOT A ONE-SIDED ISSUE. The West is not a scapegoat, nor should it be.

And they said the F-word, too: "Funding".

[WriteDown]

2. Bwahahahaahahahhhahahahahah!

:rofl:

[Uncle Joe]

4. Laugh all you like, China has enough sense to see the writing on the wall.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?q=solar+plant+china&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&sa=Search&domains=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

Edit to add second link.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?q=china+wind+power&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&sa=Search&domains=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

[WriteDown]

5. Have you seen the Yellow river?

It's gorgeous now.

http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=&usg=AFQjCNG1C70GZGlnjOmli1N9VnyRy53v4g

[Uncle Joe]

6. No doubt, China has a way to go, just as we and most of the rest of the world do, but

they're not hesitating in building renewable energy sources; the world's largest solar and wind plants.

They know global warming climate change is for real, whether you believe it or not and if we don't adapt, they will leave us in the technological, environmental, economical dust.

[WriteDown]

7. No....

They're solution is for China and India to be exempt because they are "developing" nations, while the US and the rest of the world makes the painful changes. I always love the "China is doing it right" posts though.

[Uncle Joe]

9. Did you not even read the threads in those links of my post #4, they are changing.

If you actually checked you would also know the developed world is responsible for the vast majority of the greenhouse gases already placed in to the atmosphere and the reason being, because we began our "Industrial Age" in the late 1700 and 1800s.

China doesn't do everything right, but they do enough have sense to push in a major way, their renewable energy sources.

[WriteDown]

10. Yeah, I've heard about "changing"

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gJXLRm3joEnVg1jiet6949rMlryg

[Uncle Joe]

11. You're talking about negotiation but China is changing regardless and those links you posted on your

post #8 are precisely the reasons as to why they're changing, pollution is killing them and they know it.

Maybe China had a river actually catch fire, try googling that and you may find one but I believe it happened in the U.S. in the 70s.

As I stated China is behind us in so far as their Industrial Age is concerned and they're paying the same price we payed and may still pay to a lesser degree, they're going through the same growing pains in regard to pollution.

They're 1.3 billion people and changing that doesn't happen overnight, but they're aggressively pursuing renewable energy, whether you wish to recognize it or not.

[WriteDown]

16. Let me read between the lines for you...

"The four major emerging economies -- which together account for nearly half of the world's CO2 output -- also reject all "unilateral fiscal measures" by industrialised countries, such as the carbon import taxes that figure in pending US legislation."

Trust us. We'll do what's right. No need to disrupt our lucrative trading. And if you try to punish us, we will bury you.

[FreakinDJ]

18. Fuck the Kyoto Protocol - It's a Scam

[JRicks_GA]

15. It's not just about renewable energy...

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/">China has an even bigger problem. All those cheap consumer goods at WalMart have a hidden cost. The Goods Fairy just doesn't create them out of thin air. Out of sight, out of mind, but at least they're building solar and wind farms~ China = Corporate Wet Dream

[Uncle Joe]

26. How can you miss the connection between the need for clean renewable energy and the pollution you

just cited on your own posted link?:shrug:

Much of that pollution is related to the use of dirty fossil fuels; either for transportation, manufacturing or in products; themselves, you post about pollution and then trash one of the cures!

China isn't just building solar and wind farms, they're building the world's largest.

[Psephos]

19. "China has a way to go..."

Yeah, I'd say they might even have a bit *more* than a "way to go."

facepalm

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

[Uncle Joe]

27. Maybe you weren't around, but so did we.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?q=river+catches+fire&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&sa=Search&domains=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

[Psephos]

29. "we"? You got a frog in your pocket? ;)

So maybe you and your pals got drunk way back in the 60s and lit some rivers or whatever it is was you did for fun.

But I sure as hell didn't, so include me out of your hairshirt party.

Also - using your logic, because "we" once owned slaves, now maybe it's time for the Chinese and the Indians to have a go at it, right? ;)

Fess up, Uncle Joe, after you and the boyz peed in the Love Canal and poured lighter fluid in the Cuyahoga and knocked that oil barrel over on the dock in Santa Barbara, you just had your slaves clean it all up, right?

I will go out on a limb here and guess that you did not major in logic and rhetoric in school.
:evilgrin:

PS - take a look at all the photos I posted in my earlier reply (I know you didn't scroll down). Then tell me with a straight face there isn't an environmental catastrophe underway in China, umm, but that even if there is, that progressives should just kinda look the other way. By the way, you DO realize that China is now the #1 emitter of GHGs on the planet, right? So, if one is actually concerned about reversing the effects of GHGs, one wishes to reign in the biggest polluter, right? RIGHT? Or is that subject to political modification? If that's the case, then I guess AGW is just a stalking horse for the true motivation.

[Uncle Joe]

30. We as in the United States, you don't have to wear a hairshirt to acknowledge reality.

The developed world is responsible for the lion's share of the accumulated greenhouse gases in the atmosphere today and we have been for well over a century. Those accumulated gases are a major part of current problems. We have been through the Industrial Age far longer than China.

Yes China is now the number 1 emitter as of now but I believe this is the first year and they have 4 times our population.

The point of I was making is that China is going through the same growing pains that we did and the river in Ohio that caught fire and helped ignite our own environmental movement was just one example of our own pollution problems.

Regarding language and logic, find any post which I made; stating that China didn't have environmental problems. I have said they were changing as early evidence of them building the world's largest solar farm and the world's largest wind farm. That's present tense, not a completed project but evidence of their direction and if we don't change they will surpass us.

Indeed my posts reflect those photos you speak of as being major impetus for them doing so, they know global warming climate is for real and they know better than anyone else their pollution is killing them. Mere logic should tell you this is true but if you don't trust your logic look at the survey graph on post 25 by pampango, and as I posted in response, those two top Chinese concerns in the survey graph are intricately related.

[pampango]

25. The Chinese people "see the writing on the wall", which is a good first step, but does the

government?

A post from James Fallows' blog.

http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/chinese_view_of_greatest.php

"The Lowy Institute, in Sydney, today released a poll of Chinese attitudes about their own country, its prospects, its relations with the outside world...the first two on the list are environmental..."

[Uncle Joe]

28. Thanks for the graph, pampango

I believe the two top Chinese peoples' concerns are related and the Chinese government know it.

I also believe the Chinese Government's greatest fear is anarchy and they want to remain in power, if the people's top concerns aren't answered and it all hits the fan, anarchy will have fertile breeding grounds and this I believe the government knows.

[skoalyman]

22. most if not all products from china shifts and shirks

:shrug:

[Fearless]

3. Even if they themselves are doing just that, it doesn't make their statement false.

[Psephos]

20. This is international politics, not logic class. Guess which one affects the outcome. n/t

[Fearless]

24. I'd bet that neither makes any differnce in the end.

[WriteDown]

8. Some images from China, Environmental Crusader

http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=&usg=AFQjCNG-BY9ZBHH42Yrk6d9Ew4mAwcVstg

http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=&usg=AFQjCNGnsjBklbhK8o_D2TFpTq_aOjbwqg

http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=&usg=AFQjCNGdwQqyFZio61quPrkvCOlp_VY_yA

[keitai]

12. One point to bring up.

The China situation is more complicated than the policy and line that comes out of Beijing. While the heads of government in Beijing may say one thing, the truth is they have very little control of what happends out in the sticks and the autonomous zones. Sure, if they tried to break away or do a policy truly offensive to the regime, there would be crackdowns but clearly pollution is not that pressing an issue. This belief that the Chinese government is an all seeing Big Brother style apparatus is flawed. All the polluting industries in China have to do is pay off the bureaucrats in a particular province far from the East Coast and they can fuck the environment any way they like.
If China is to be a true leader in environmental protection, they will have to craft a policy that is binding to all parts of China. The ball truly is in their court as they really don't have to do anything as America is that far into debt funded by them. They can really decide whether or not this thing succeeds (Copenhagen).

[denem]

14. Yes, but the Chinese government can centrally invest in massive nuclear power,

undercut coal electricity prices, and put the plants well away from populated centers.

I'm all for renewables, but with a country this size, already a nuclear power and a government with a centralizing authoritarian bent, this looks like the way to go.

[denem]

13. What, me worried?

[DissedByBush]

17. The worse the polluter

The more they will be looking for an advantage, a way to keep polluting and stick us with the bill.

Meanwhile, China is building TWO COAL POWER PLANTS PER WEEK!

[anonymous171]

21. Any jobs we cut via environmental regs will just pop back up in China.

I really don't see the point of helping them produce more carbon into the atmosphere. China needs to be held back, not pushed forward.

[joshcryer]

23. "But please don't put a CO2 fee on any of our exports, thanks."

"Buy our highly polluting goods! Only take responsibility for your electrical, industrial and vehicle emissions, not the rest!"

Or:

"We'll have our cake and eat it too."