Health Care Polls Reflect Opposition and Confusion

[FreakinDJ]

Source: Andrea Stone

Health Care Polls Reflect Opposition and Confusion

WASHINGTON (Dec. 21) -- The polls are clear: A majority of Americans don't like the health care ideas proposed by Democrats in Congress.

Now, if only they knew what those ideas were.

The Pew Research Center reports that 69 percent say health reform is hard to understand.

"It's a very complicated set of propositions for people to make judgments about because there's a fair amount of misinformation," said Pew Center President Andrew Kohut. "Even the policy wonks have trouble with this stuff."


Read more: http://www.sphere.com/nation/article/polls-show-americans-dont-like-or-understand-health-care-reform-plans/19289947

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Before everyone here at DU starts doing the "High FIVE" over the Senate passage of the HCR bill, you have to understand the Senate version is fraught with "Poison Pills" guaranteed to hand the RATpubliCONs a stunning victory in 2010/2012

No Public Option was a GOP concession
Taxing the "Cadillac Health Plans" (Union Benefit Packages) is a GOP concession
No Import Prescriptions is a GOP concession
Allowing Insurance to charge Seniors excessive rates is a GOP concession

All designed to bury the Dems

Just like the NAFTA poison pill the RATpubliCONs got the Dems to bite, this bill will have the same results as the 1994 Election Cycle. I just hope it won't take 12-14 years to get Democrats back in

[tomhayes]

1. So confusing and lying to the public

What a strategy the Republicans are using.

If America falls for it again we can kiss Exceptionalism goodbye and say hello to American Remedialism.

[SandWalker1984]

2. Ah yes, NAFTA - the gift that keeps on giving........

.......as will this Corporate Health Insurance Profits Protection Act that Congress is trying to sell us as health care reform.

You forgot to mention that it also leaves in the antitrust protection for the insurance corporations. That was the least they could do for us and the Senate took it out of their final bill.


So what we are left with is mandates to buy private insurance from the corporations that they the cause of the problems that Congress was supposed to fix, without the actual fix.

I think as more people become aware of exactly what the Democrats have passed, the angrier they will become.

The Republicans will build on that anger to get voters out in 2010 and 2012 while discouraged and disgusted Democrats will stay home.

Yes, I blame Obama. I blame him from turning a movement for progressive change, for true healthcare reform, for ending the war in Iraq, for kicking the lobbyists out of control of Washington, into...

...nothing.

The momentum's gone, people are turning away in disgust. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to the the last few months that say we were conned and Obama is nothing more than another politician who lied his way into the White House. Young and old, the feeling of being "had" is the same.

[FreakinDJ]

3. Sorry to say - I am seeing and hearing the same

I still beleive in Obama that hasn't been shaken - YET!

But as for the Senate Dems - I'm furious

[snagglepuss]

4. +1

[polpilot]

7. So healthcare rates skyrocket, the elderly pay more, health ins. cos. get gov. checks

And this is what the democrats voted for. Good luck.

[DallasNE]

5. I Don't Buy This At All

This bill passed on a straight party line vote of 60-39. Politicans don't willing commit suicide so it's nonsense to suggest this is a Republican bill. Yes, the Republican/lobbyist misinformation campaign has a good deal of success and that has to be corrected but this is landmark legislation, make no mistake. Besides, the focus of the 2010 election will be on the state of the economy and an economy on the mend will benefit the Democrats, especially in the Senate where there are Republican seats up than there are Democrats. I just don't buy into all of this gloom and doom.

[FreakinDJ]

6. Repeating the STUPID Mistakes of 1994

Your all wet thinking that an economic up tick is going to make everyone feel all Warm and Fuzzy towards the Democrats in the House and Senate once. again

It didn't help in 1994 and it won't work in the 2010/2012 Election cycles

The Joys of Being No. 1

By Harry Kelber. 14 September, 1995
In the nation's corporate boardrooms, there must have been much rejoicing (but no flag-waving by workers on the shop floor) at the news that the U.S. has been ranked as the world's most competitive economy, this year and last, in a survey conducted by the Geneva-based World Economic Forum.

There is really no mystery how U.S. corporations achieved the No. 1 ranking. The magic mantra they used so successfully against working people, union and non-union, was "competitive- ness." By threatening American workers that they were "pricing themselves out of the global market," they wrung concessions in wages, fringe benefits and working conditions--and this in a period of economic recovery. They reduced their work force by tens of thousands with enormous savings in labor costs that could be translated into profits for stockholders and higher salaries for corporate executives.

It's worth noting that the U.S. ranked eleventh in 1994 in hourly manufacturing labor costs in a survey of 24 industrialized nations by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Our two major global competitors--Japan and Germany-- both had labor costs that were substantially higher than in the United States. Labor costs in Germany amounted to $27.31 an hour, compared to the U.S. average of $17.10. Japanese labor costs averaged $21.42 an hour, 25 percent more than what American companies were paying their workers.

American workers, once the highest paid in the world, now rank substantially below those in nearly all industrialized countries. They also have the least number of paid holidays and vacation days for an average total of 23 days. Workers in Japan have 25 days off; Britain, 31; France, 35; Sweden, 38; Italy, 40.5, and Germany, 42.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45/012.html

It was GREAT for MultiNational Corporations and Wall St but it was a Horrible year for Labor. JUST AS YOU HAVE NOW IN THE SENATE HEALTH CARE REFORM BILL. The Senate has handed the Health Insurance Industry every thing they wanted while punishing the very people who have been financially responcible and have provided Health Care for their families at GREAT PERSONAL COST to theirselves

As I've illustrated - if the Senate Bill passes into law with the provisions as of now in place, Labor will squash the Dems just as they did in 1994

Quit polishing the Turd

[tomhayes]

9. Labor Squashed Dems in 1994?

Fist, that's not true.

Second, let's say it's true - HOW'D IT WORK OUT FOR LABOR???

[FreakinDJ]

10. Dems voted in NAFTA - they got FUCKED at the polls for doing that

Pay-Back is a Bitch - any questions

United States House of Representatives elections, 1994

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
United States House of Representatives elections, 1994

All 435 seats to the United States House of Representatives
November 8, 1994 Majority party Minority party

Leader Newt Gingrich Tom Foley
Party Republican Democratic
Leader's seat Georgia-6th Washington-5th (defeated)
Last election 176 seats 258 seats
Seats won 230 204
Seat change +54 -54
Percentage 47.8% 44.0%
Swing +5.1% -5.9%

Incumbent Speaker Tom Foley Democratic
Speaker-elect Newt Gingrich Republican

The U.S. House election, 1994 was an election for the United States House of Representatives on November 8, 1994, in the middle of President Bill Clinton's first term. As a result of a 54-seat swing in membership from Democrats to Republicans, the Republican Party gained a majority of seats in the House for the first time since 1954.

The Democratic Party had run the House for all but 4 of the preceding 72 years and had been plagued by a series of scandals. The Republican Party, united behind Newt Gingrich's Contract with America, which promised floor votes on various popular and institutional reforms, was able to capitalize on the perception that the House leadership was corrupt, as well as the dissatisfaction of conservative and many independent voters with President Clinton's actions (including a failed attempt at universal health care and gun control measures).

In a historic election, House Speaker Tom Foley (D-Washington) was defeated for re-election in his district, becoming the first Speaker of the House to fail to win re-election since the era of the American Civil War. Other major upsets included the defeat of powerful long-serving Representatives such as Ways and Means Chairman Dan Rostenkowski (D-Illinois) and Judiciary Chairman Jack Brooks (D-Texas). In all, 34 incumbents (all Democrats) were defeated, though several of them (like David Price of North Carolina, Ted Strickland of Ohio, and Jay Inslee of Washington) regained seats in later elections; Maria Cantwell of Washington won a U.S. Senate race in 2000. Republicans also won some seats that were left open by retiring Democrats. Democrats won four Republican-held seats where the incumbents were stepping down (Maine, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island). Democrats who were elected in this situation included current Rhode Island congressman and Kennedy family member Patrick J. Kennedy and current Maine governor John Baldacci. No Republican incumbent lost his or her seat in 1994.

Minority whip Newt Gingrich (R-Georgia), re-elected in the Republican landslide, became Speaker (previous Minority Leader Robert H. Michel having retired). Former Majority Leader Dick Gephardt (D-Missouri) became minority leader. The new Republican leadership in the House promised to bring a dozen legislative proposals to a vote in the first 100 days of the session, although the Senate did not always follow suit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_1994

[tomhayes]

11. HR 3450 Nafta vote: Republican 132, Dems 102

So the public voted out the dems because they vote for NAFTA less than Republicans???

Or was because Clinton made the bill more pro-labor (and pro-envirnoment) than Bush's version that got labor mad??

WHICH WAS IT??

[FreakinDJ]

13. Dem voters stayed Home because Dems failed to stop it

No one wanted that piece of shit except the Multinational Corporations

[tomhayes]

14. How'd that work out

???

[FreakinDJ]

15. Your "Preaching to the Choir" bud

Been working towards Democratic change for years (Since Jimmy Carter Days) but there are just some things the Dem party does that is indefensible. Also given the RATpubliCONs have already successfully launched a MASSIVE Dis-information Campaign (Tea Baggers) I don't see this turning around significantly in the next 11 or 23 months.

Like many other "Working Stiffs" the RATpubliCONs represent suppressed wages, corporatism and unemployment to me. But given the current actions of the Democratic Senate Majority in failing to give us 1 iota of hope for decreasing Health Insurance Cost, just what is there for anyone earning $150K or less to get excited about, much less turn-out to the polls in force for.

Just wait until the First "Post Health Care Reform" insurance cost increase notices go out

There will be a unprecedented ground swell of Anti-Democrat Sentiment the likes of which you'll have never seen before.

You can count on the RATpubliCONs to be AssHoles because they are AssHoles. But when you count on the Democrats to be the Heroes and Save the Day, (because that is in essence what they promised to do after Bush Trashed the economy) and the "Turn-Coat" and hand the Health Insurance Companies "Free Reign" for the wholesale rip off of their constituents, people tend to get pissed off because the feel pissed on

But here's to Ya for keepin the faith

[Thickasabrick]

8. People under 65 are seniors??? Who knew nt

[tritsofme]

12. This bill passed with no Republicans, none of these are "GOP concessions"

The only concessions were ones made to members of the Democratic caucus. Drug re-importation was killed off because the White House deal with PhRMA.

In the end this is a good bill, it provides broad coverage and reduces the deficit. As people learn about its benefits, it will get more popular.

[Abq_Sarah]

16. I'd be happy if I held stock

In an insurance company.

[Crzyrussell]

17. i'm sorry

but the
"Taxing the "Cadillac Health Plans" (Union Benefit Packages) is a GOP concession" isn't a GOP concession. It has been there since the beginning.

[FreakinDJ]

18. 2 Words : Political Fallout

[SkyDaddy7]

19. And the Dems did not lose in 1994 because of...

NAFTA...There was the feeling that the Dems were corrupt and I know many do not like to hear this but Gun Control Bill had a lot to do with the 1994 loss as well...This is why we have not seen any gun legislation despite all the high profile gun violence we have seen just since Obama took office. It is political suicide and the Dems know this.

The Republicans are masters of making the public think all the Dems want to do is have the government take over everything...This is why there is no chance of getting a public option much less single payer. However, the blame will be on Obama as it already is for trying to pass some reform. I have no idea what folks think Obama is suppose to do other than not sign any reform unless it has a public option? Which will NEVER HAPPEN in the current climate! There simply are not enough votes, period! Obama cant strong arm those who refuse to vote for a public option he has nothing to strong arms them with! The Democratic Party is not geared up like the GOP. The Dems already tried to get rid of Lieberman and failed because the voters in his state like him for some reason and same applies to other Blue Dogs. If folks think they can run liberal candidates against those Senators who refuse to vote for a public option then they are not with the game. Obama knows the climate he is dealing with and he is simply trying get what he can. Chances are no bill will pass and so everyone on the right and left will be happy as we all run off a cliff together.

I guess time will tell but one thing is for sure this country is in really bad shape!

If Obama knows there is no chance of passing a bill with a public option then I guess he is suppose to just forget about trying to get any reform at all...Am I correct in saying this? I guess I am confused at what folks want because there simply are not the votes so what exactly is it that Obama should do that he is not doing?

Please be respectful if you choose to reply to my post...I am not looking to fight I just read all the anger and I wonder what exactly is Obama and the Dems suppose to do? If the political climate is what it is and there is not enough votes for a public option should they just drop reform and say they tried? Seriously? Or pass what you can and then shoot for the public option down the road when it is obvious to more Americans we have to have one?

Or is it public option now or nothing despite the fact there is no way a public option would pass in the senate?

[Crzyrussell]

23. I don't think

anybody is denying the need for health insurance reform. But I really think that a mandate, with penalty of jail, to purchase insurance is a really bad idea.

I think we can have meaningful reform with out the mandate. IF people do not want to purchase insurance it is their choice.

[totodeinhere]

20. I'll bet you anything that this most of this opposition is coming from the left.

If we had single payer or at the very least a robust public option, then the American people would support the bill. Who isn't confused by this bill? How many pages is it anyway? It's a bunch of gobbledygook. Put together a good straightforward progressive bill and the American people will get behind it.

[New Dawn]

21. They'll understand what it was about when their premiums skyrocket or when the IRS fines them.

Meanwhile, the super-rich owners of the "health" insurance industry, who created this fascist monstrosity of a bill, will be getting even more rich (at our expense).

[brentspeak]

22. How are the things you mentioned "GOP concessions"?

Not a single Republican will be voting for the bill. They are concessions to Lieberman and the conserva-Dems.