Generics cos in the cold as big pharma has its way in US

[G_j]

Source: Reuters


Generics cos in the cold as big pharma has its way in US
26 Dec 2009, 0253 hrs IST, REUTERS

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The massive U.S. Senate healthcare reform measure passed on Thursday with support from the multibillion drug industry, but makers of cheaper generic rivals are feeling left out in the cold.

Generic drugmakers face several obstacles in the bill backed by Democrats that they worry will dampen a potential increase in use even as more people gain access to health insurance and prescription medicines.

The hurdles include extensive protections against generic versions of pricey biotech medicines, an incentive for Medicare recipients to use more brand-name drugs, and a possible end to payments from brandname makers to delay the launch of copy-cat medicines.

"The bill passed by the Senate unfortunately amounts to a treasure trove to brand drug companies," said Generic Pharmaceutical Association President Kathleen Jaeger, whose group represents Mylan, Watson Pharmaceuticals and Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, among other companies.

President Barack Obama has often pointed to generics as a key way to cut costs, but big pharmaceutical makers such as Pfizer and Merck came to lawmakers and the White House with an $80 billion, 10-year pact to cut prices and pay additional taxes to help fund the expansion of health insurance coverage

Read more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/Generics-cos-in-the-cold-as-big-pharma-has-its-way-in-US/articleshow/5379485.cms

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Very Surprising nt

[cutlassmama]

2. well good. Most generics don't work worth a crap anyways.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. And You Have Evidence Of This?

My generics all seem to work just fine.

I've not seen evidence that generics work worse than name brand - have you?

[IndianaGreen]

58. Perhaps the poster owns stock in Big Pharma

like Evan Bayh does.

[Fearless]

62. +1

[msongs]

6. generic "claritin" is made in.....india nt

[shadowknows69]

8. Mine seem to work fine. And I can afford them. Barely.

[ChiciB1]

12. Have Used Them For Years And Have HAD NO TROUBLE... In Fact

I take synthroid, but always get generic. Last month I switched primary care doctors and the script was written for synthroid not the generic name and I had to pay for it. Not much difference, but I commented to my daughter that somehow the "real" thing didn't seem to work AS WELL as the generic.

This was all said to her before I read this post, only two weeks ago. I NOTICED it myself, and I must say I think the generic worked better. Why would I say such a thing if I didn't actually feel the difference?? No reason other than it was a reality to me!

Thyroid issues aren't anything to play around with, so if the REAL thing makes me not feel as well, it makes me wonder if BIG PHARMA may just be screwing with what they are selling us now!! Maybe cutting costs by cutting the REAL thing!!

Who know, I'm such a cynic now I NEVER know what to believe!! I'm told that MOST of our drugs created here are actually manufactured overseas! Like many European countries, so what's the big deal about making sure drugs from Canada are safe when they aren't even made in America??

It's just plain BS!!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

20. Armour Thyroid is a lot cheaper than Synthroid.

Armour is natural (porcine) and works much better for some people than Synthroid. Synthroid is T4 only.
Armour is T3 and T4. Doctors are brainwashed against Armour, and don't understand that patients often feel much better on it.

I've taken armour since I was eleven years, old and I am now fifty five.
Doctors have tried to put me on synthroid and I have screamed and yelled to get back on Armour.

Check it out. You may or may not need Armour:

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

[newfie11]

27. Yep and been used for at least 80 years

So of course, take it off and make us buy crappy synthyoid. This is bullshit

[ChiciB1]

38. Hey, Thanks To BOTH Of You! Never Heard Of It... But Will See My Dr.

this coming Monday on the 28th. I'll check it out with the link to.

Sorry for the late reply, I was tired from CHRISTMAS and just chilled out after my post!

[inna]

43. thank you so much for the link/info!!

:hi:

I had no idea, and I've taken synthroid for 20 years!

[Gormy Cuss]

51. Doctor "brainwashing" via marketing is part of the reason the name brands cost more.

The myth of generics not working is based on anecdotes of people who don't respond as well on them as they did to the name brand --- something the name brand companies love to promote. It's too bad that the producers of generics (and lesser known brands for that matter) haven't fought back successfully with anecdotes from people who respond better to their formulas.

The fact is that generics and name brand products are substantially the same thing and act the same way for most people. If we had single payer, generics would be the first line recommendation for everyone and the name brands would lose share unless they were priced competitively.

[scentopine]

9. You have forgotten about the dozens of outrageously expensive

boutique designer drugs from US Pharma that were killing people, dozens and then hundreds and possibly thousands. Drugs that were rushed through FDA approval using deregulation demanded by the drug companies. Remember this? Every week it was another outrageous scandal. Employees testifying they were threated with being fired if they disclosed bad test results- it was fucking crazy.

Studies are now showing many of these expensive boutique drugs are less effective than 30 year old treatments. The cost to consumers is in the billions.

Just do a search on "high priced drug no more effective" and other variants with same meaning.

[emilyg]

10. Absolutely not true.

[McCamy Taylor]

18. The number of people shilling for the corporations at DU has grown exponentially

since the party took over the White House and Congress.

Big Pharm could care less about the health and welfare of Americans. They are about a half step above Philip Morris in my book. They shun disease prevention research because sick people mean more money for them. Greed is their only motivator. Their endless quest for more money will eventually be their downfall, and it can not come a moment too soon.

[oreo3leg]

25. More than likely we will bail them out if that happens.

[No Elephants]

29. Agree. My first reaction was "shill much?" But, the response I posted was milder.

Difficult to tell, however, if they are shilling for corporations or just making excuse after excuse for the pro-corporation measures of Obamadmin. DU's motto these days may as well be "IOKIODI." (It's O.K. if Obama does it.)

I must be getting old. I remember when Democrats put principles over both personalities and Party.

[IndianaGreen]

59. You got members of Congress, and their staffers and families, that profit

from legislation that benefits Big Pharma and Big Insurance. They are clearly going to defend their financial interests.

[rpannier]

19. facts to support this absurd statement nt

[No Elephants]

41. crickets

[SkyDaddy7]

21. I agree, my medicine in generic form does not work as good.

[Maine-ah]

24. what is your medicine?

[No Elephants]

40. Crickets.

[SkyDaddy7]

55. Let me first start by saying this problem is not as simple as some think!

Generics are nice in many cases for many people. However, there generics that simply do not work as well.

I am not a big pharma defender but I will say this and you can check. (I am not going to go out and find links as I already know) Drug companies put more of their profits back into R&D than any other industry. That does not excuse their past behavior but it is a fact that can't be overlooked when it comes to them being able to bring new drugs on the market. It takes about 800 million to 1 billion dollars to get a drug to market. Having said that, it is simply not fair that the US Government can't negotiate for lower drug cost when other governments can. And I think HMOs or insurance companies do as well. I had my life saved with a drug named Lyrica! It was designed for Fibrmyalgia but I was prescribed it for Neuropathic Pain.

The drugs I was taking prior to which I do not have exact names but I would take the generic and it would not work as well as the name brands...NOTHING worked as well as Lyrica to which there is no Generic and won't be until 2013 when the patent expires. However, I think drug companies can get extensions. This drug is EXTREMELY expensive! However, once Obama took office and began the whole Health care reform talks the drug companies have expanded their programs to help those of us who can't afford the medicine. The program I am on through Phizer use to be geared where it really did not help anyone. Without going through all the BIG Pharma BS they had in place prior to this Health Care debate started I now qualify for the program I did not qualify for before. For this fact alone I LOVE PRESIDENT OBAMA! I now get my very high dose of Lyrica shipped to me FREE! That saves me $260 a month! This would not have happened without Obama starting this very complicated and difficult fight for reform...More on this later.

I should tell you I had a spinal cord injury and there are numerous issues that come with such an injury besides loss of use to certain extremities. So, I have to take medicine for extreme spasticity in my legs, Neuropathic Pain, chronic muscle pain, and other medicine for digestive problems due to the injury & the medicine. So, needless to say I had to bounce around to several meds until I found what worked for me especially for the Neuropathic Pain. Through the past 6 years I had several drugs prescribe to me for this type of pain where the generic did not work as well as the more expensive name brand did. However, this hunt ended with Lyrica.


There use to be a generic for Oxycontin that did not work near as good as the name brand. However, the maker, Purdue, sued to have the generic taken off the market and the patent extended until 2013. This hurt in a way due to the extreme cost difference but I had gone back to taking the name brand since I "HAD" insurance. However, my insurance dropped me (Which nearly killed me!)and now I am on Medicare & Medicare Part D. Which I actually like! Of course, it does not offer the same coverage as my Insurance did prior I "think" I do not have to worry about getting dropped! Medicare is fine and while Medicare Part D is a give away to the Insurance & Drug Companies it does save me about $1700 a year.

There is also generics for other milder pain meds like one I think is like Percocet but without the acetaminophen. I think it is called Roxicodone? I could be wrong but the generic for that did not work as well. So, I actually went back to taking the generic for Percocet with the acetaminophen which does what it is suppose to do but it has acetaminophen. I would like to take the other but the cost is such I can't. So, I guess since I compromised and decided to take a drug with acetaminophen I have had success with this generic.

So, I have had plenty experience with generic drugs vs brand name and for me I have had more success with brand name drugs. However, like I said before I am not defending BIG Pharma but I am being honest about what I have learned over the past 6 years. This whole mess does not have simple and easy solutions. If we are to change our health care system it will obviously have to be done a little at a time. There is no other way! I have gone through some of the most disgusting parts of health care system as it is especially being dropped from my insurance and having to get divorced to qualify for help getting into Medicare plus other crap and we must fix it. However, I think folks do not realize there is simply not the political climate to do everything WE WANT in one move. Single Payer or Medicare for all would be the best in my opinion because the Insurance Companies could still make killin selling plans to cover what Medicare does not. BUT THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN RIGHT NOW! Nor is there enough votes for the Public Option regardless of what Obama could have done. Obama never "promised" a bill he just said he would prefer one! Then there are Dems who will vote against a "STRONG" public option that the party has NO LEVERAGE to change their vote. We saw how watered down it got just to try & get those last few Dems on board. And then there is Lieberman who is determined to be a GOP HIT MAN! So, this bill going through right now is a good start regardless of how mad folks are right now. What it will do is set the ground work for a "STRONG" Public Option if the insurance companies do not lower premiums. Plus, the current bill does have reform in it just not as much as we wanted or probably we need. But we will see.

If this response angers folks please be respectful in your reply. I have gone through this health care problem further than most here on DU and I want reform just as much as everyone else...We just need to take a step back and realize what reform is all about. It should not be looked at as a political "gotcha" to the GOP or a means of revenge on the Insurance Companies it needs to be looked at as helping Americans. This bill is start and it CAN BE BUILT UPON IF NEEDED!

[Altoid_Cyclist]

32. The one generic that I really had trouble with was Metoprolol.

I had my first heart attack three years ago and was prescribed Toprol which of course my insurance wouldn't cover. It did cover the generic form however. Once I was feeling better, I resumed bicycling. I soon noticed that even though I was taking it twice each day as prescribed, my heart rate was through the roof whenever I rode in the PM. It was fine on morning rides but I couldn't keep my BPM under 140-160 in the PM.

I mentioned this to my PCP and he said that this was a common problem with this particular generic for whatever reason. He switched me to Atenolol which is the generic form of Tenormin and my BPM were controlled 100% better regardless of time of day.

Last Friday I had another heart attack and I mentioned to my nurses why I was taking the Atenolol and one of them said that they had also heard many people complain about the same thing with Metoprolol and inconsistent results. I don't know if it has something to do with individual body chemistry, the manufacturer or the generic itself. It's possible that the Toprol wouldn't have worked either, but when medical providers tell me that a particular generic doesn't have a good track record, I have to believe them.

Now I've been switched to the generic form of Coreg (Carvedilol) so I'll have to see how it works for me once I am able to resume normal activities.

[No Elephants]

39. By LAW in Massachusetts, pharmacists must dispense generics unless the doctor's prescription forbids

generics. My insurance will not automatically cover a brand name, but will cover a brand name if my doc writes a letter explaining why the generic will not be okay for me.

But, the fact that you and I may have a problem with a generic here and there is not a reason for denying all generics to everyone, or making it harder for everyone to get all generics. For most folks, most or all generics are not a problem and for some folks, some generics even work better.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

47. I agree.

I was just pointing out that I had one generic that didn't work but that another one worked fine for me. As I said, it's possible that the Brand name wouldn't have worked for me either. A lot of times it comes down to trial & error to find what works best for each patient. If it wasn't for generics, I wouldn't be able to afford all of the Meds. that I have to take.

We're lucky that there are some Pharmacies around here that offer 90 days worth of certain Generics for only $10.00. We had to switch Pharmacies since the one that we had always dealt with dropped their participation in that program.

It might not seem like a lot of money to some, but to us it makes a world of a difference when it's a choice between $10 per month or $10 every three months for the same drug. Multiply that by the number of drugs that a person on numerous Rx's can save and it adds up in a year.

[1monster]

48. My husband takes the generic Metoprolol and it works quite well. Perhaps the "inert" ingredients in

the generic don't agree with you?

[Altoid_Cyclist]

52. That's entirely possible.

I've been tested twice for allergies in my life. They were the old fashioned scratch tests or whatever they were called.

Both tests (by two different Dr's.~12 years apart) had results that were so strange that on each occasion they had the entire staff down to the receptionists come in and look at my back.

Neither one had ever seen such a reaction during their careers and just thought that it was so cool that everyone had to see it.

One Dx'ed it as being allergic to just about every substance and the other one said that I was merely "hyper-sensitive" to just about every substance. I'm not sure which one was right but it was strange being looked at by everyone in the office.

So your suggestion does make sense. Although I sometimes would like a real Dx as to why I had the freakish reactions in case that might explain why I keep having heart attacks since they can be caused be many factors.

[Blasphemer]

49. With some drugs generic vs. brand name can make a difference

In particular, I've known epileptics and others on Lamictal, for instance, who noticed a significant difference in effectiveness and had to switch back to brand names. There have been similar issues with other Epilepsy drugs like Dilantin. I don't understand why this would be the case but it does happen.

[SkyDaddy7]

56. You sound like me...

I had a spinal cord injury which left me with all kinds of issues. So, I too have had to bounce around to several meds and in many cases I had better results from the brand name vs the generic.

I am sorry to hear about your health issues and I wish you all the luck in the world. It really sucks when health issues hit and rob you of parts of life you really enjoy. So, I hope you will still be able ride your bike as it sounds like something you must enjoy doing.

I have also had to deal with being dropped by my Insurance Company about a year or so into dealing with my spinal cord injury. It was pure hell that ended with my wife and I having to get a divorce just so I would qualify for Medicare without having to pay huge penalties and higher premiums.

I have had some recent good news though, since Obama started this whole health care debate the drug companies have expanded their programs for people in lower income brackets. I tried several times to get into one of their programs only to get denied because I make $13,000 a year (That is what my Social Security Disability adds up to be) and not less than $10,800. Which is what was considered "poverty" in America I think? Or it could have been just what Pfizer thought was the "poverty level". Anyway, Pfizer changed the income requirements to less than $1800 A Month and now I qualify. This change was obviously due to the Obama starting the very complicated and difficult fight to reform our health care system...And for this I have to be thankful to Obama! I know we all want more reform than is politically possible right now but I think the bill that hopefully gets passed will be a start. Nothing says it can't be built upon in the future.

Again, I wish you all the luck in the world and please be careful with your heart!

[No Elephants]

33. Even if you are telling the truth so what? Generics work just fine for the vast majority of folks.

If you are a rare exception, your doc could always prescribe the brand name. Nothing justifies making everyone else pay two times as much or more when generics would be just fine for them.

Prilosec, once available only by prescription, is now sold over the counter. Prilosec gives me a headache, a reaction not suffered by the vast majority of people. So, my doc prescribes Nexium for me. My individual allergic reaction to Prilosec, though, in no way would justify taking Prilosec off the market or making it available only by prescription again.

See also, Reply ##s 18 and 29.

[SkyDaddy7]

57. Never said I think generics should be done away with...or

that they do not help others, they obviously do. What I said is during my long experience with several different types of drugs the brand names typically worked better for me. My doctors were always straight forward about telling me to try the generics but they also knew from experience most prefered the brand names when it came to several of the drugs I am on. And was on.

Also see my post with more detail about me and my opinion on this whole health care reform fight.

Post #55

[PatrynXX]

23. have no clue which generics your referring to.

My generics are just as effective. Wish Prevacid would come down in price, it's $170 a month. I basically stopped taking it. The patent ran out this year but I see no generics running up for it. Not were's a 24 hour Prevacid but I guess you can only take that for 14 days at a time. (boy the child safety lids on those are cheap. Some simply screw off. Hey FDA are you awake over there? those should be recalled. o_O

Take generics of Zolof, Klonopene, and Ritalin LA and seriously not as effective? Real Zoloft gave me heart burn.

[No Elephants]

28. Generics work fine. See also Reply # 33.

[icee]

30. Baloney. I take six meds a day. In some cases, the generics work

better than the Tier 1's themselves. Possibly you should learn to use smaller paint brushes.

[SergeStorms]

34. I'd like to know........

what evidence you have to support your opinion, if any. Generics have kept me alive for the past 15 years. I'd be destitute if forced to buy the same medicines in brand names. On second thought I'd be dead, because there's no way I could even afford them, so I'd have to go without.

Yeah, DAMN those crappy generic drugs! :eyes:

[totodeinhere]

35. That is completely untrue. Generics are identical to name brand drugs.

They have the identical chemical composition, so it's impossible that they do not work as well. The only difference is that they have a different manufacturer, they don't have expensive marketing like the name brands, and they might have different packaging.

I hate is when someone at DU posts disinformation like this.

[bitchkitty]

37. Bullshit.

You just pulled that lie straight out of your ass.

"Well good." Good for you if you have stock in a pharmaceutical company. Not good if you're desperately trying to keep up and one of your kids get sick. Feed them or cure them? You wouldn't be so callous if you were the one making that choice.

[1monster]

46. I worked in a pharmacy for ten years. I never use name brand drugs if there is a generic

equivelent. They work just fine.

And at a small fraction of the name brand price.

[fascisthunter]

53. What a Lie

I only take generics and always have because I can't afford anything but generic.

The lengths in which people go to sell bullshit here is incredible.

[liberation]

54. Well good, another person who does not know what he/she talks about...

... but is all to happy to cheer to get screwed. Marketing does work wonders with the average American idiot.

[dysfunctional press]

64. all of my generic drugs work just fine...

and they save me quite a bit of money every month.

[JGug1]

4. American Big Pharma Protected?

Who cares? Google "Canadian Pharmacy" and you can buy your drugs at a reasonable price.

[Edweird]

7. Yeah, uh, about that...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/15/814793/-DEMS-Kill-Drug-Re-Importation-!!-DEAL-UPDATE

[Triana]

5. O'Bomber just can't say NO to drug and insurance companies, can he?

(well he COULD - but he won't)

:-\

[boppers]

13. These *are* the drug companies complaining.

It's drug companies complaining about other drug companies having an advantage when inventing newer drugs.

[No Elephants]

42. So, when one set of drug companies disagrees with the other, the administration sides with the group

of drug companies that skins consumers most?

[Edweird]

11. You're saying corporations are getting their way? Over the best interests of the citizens?

Say it isn't so.

[autorank]

14. k*r Spread the word - More TRUTH

What a boon for Big Pharma. Of course the other boon is that the government won't negotiate
with them through Medicare to reduce costs. Then the legislature stops buying and importing
drugs from other countries.

The cheer leaders think that just "winning" is enough. Sorry to say, for them anyway, that
the people are already figuring this out high level and will continue to parse it on a particular
level. They don't care who is squabbling with whom on the left, they just want a decent bill.

What's produced will not be decent. The stinking kettle of fish will attract a great deal of
attention and that will be that for all those who supported it or those who were even too
backwards to put forward any reform.

[G_j]

15. yep

:-(

[Vidar]

16. Recommended for more treachery & lies from Obama.

[New Dawn]

17. The bill is a present for big business and shackles/chains for working people.

[INdemo]

22. The Democrats are giving the pharmaceutical companies more than Bush

could ever hope for. Democrats would never have allowed this to happen under Geo Bush...Now with Obama the drug companies and health insurance companies have the freedoms to do what they wish.Obama is becoming more of a puppet than Junior was.....

[AusDem]

61. I think Medicare Part D was a bigger

give away wasn't it? and all deficit funded....

[NashVegas]

26. The Truth About Politics, As Practiced in the 21st Century

It's not about who's right or wrong about what's best for the country.

It's about whose friends will get the contract to provide services for the government, that taxpayers would never approve if they weren't kept squabbling over whether or not Sarah Palin is an idiot or Barack Obama was born in the US.

Maybe it was always this way and we just didn't notice.

[No Elephants]

31. Yes. The Republicrats and Demlicans have to give us ways to tell them apart.

We fall for it and get distracted with trivia and wedge issues Meanwhile, it was Democrats who shoved abortion language into the health care bill and other Democrats who allowed them so to do. So, even the wedge issues don't help us tell them apart anymore.

God, I miss the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, which is now apparently called such things "the left of the left" or "the fringe." Everyone else is either a Republicrat or a Demlican, though.

[totodeinhere]

36. I'm waiting for the shills for this travesty of a bill to weigh in on this one.

Or is the lie that generics are not as good as name brands all they've got?

[glinda]

44. Many times when a drug works well they do not even make a generic for profit reasons.

They just hang onto the patent. I just wish they would lower the costs all the way around.

[bvar22]

45. Clearly, the manufacturers of the less expensive Generics....

...were not able to offer a big enough bribe to the White House.
Case Closed.

[Greyhound]

50. It's going to take years before most people realize who badly they've been screwed by

"their representatives".
:kick: & R

[AusDem]

60. at least big pharma adds value to the economy

sure they are charging too much, but at least they are producing something that is making a difference to people's lives. compare them with the insurance industry and they look like saints. I would much rather that a deal have been struck with pharma to get HCR through, than ANY give away's to the insurance industry (which unfortunately have still happened).

corporations that actually add value (unlike most insurance cos and banks) should get a better seat at the table IMHO.

[G_j]

63. drug prices are one of the main reasons for the high cost of HC.

it is a serious problem

[rollingrock]

65. Another flip-flop from what he promised during the campagin

Obama's budget plan proposes measures to prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs

Updated: Thursday, March 5th, 2009 | By Robert Farley

During the campaign, President Obama vowed to rein in efforts by drug companies to lengthen the exclusive period before generic drugs are allowed.

Under existing rules, drug companies that develop new medications deemed safe and effective by the Food and Drug Administration are granted a period of market exclusivity, during which cheaper generic alternatives cannot be offered on the market. Once that exclusive period ends, generic copycat drugs are allowed to flood the market, and the price of the medications drops dramatically.

It's something of a tradeoff. While generic drugs spell significant savings for consumers, they are a profit killer for the companies that develop the new medications. Naturally, pharmaceutical companies try to extend their exclusivity — and the higher profits they can achieve — as long as they can.

An Obama campaign document said that "some drug manufacturers are explicitly paying generic drugmakers not to enter the market so they can preserve their monopolies and keep charging Americans exorbitant prices for brand name products. The Obama-Biden plan will work to ensure that market power does not lead to higher prices for consumers. Their plan will work to increase use of generic drugs in the new public plan, Medicare, Medicaid, FEHBP (Federal Employee Health Benefits Program) and prohibit large drug companies from keeping generics out of markets."

www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/72/prevent-drug-companies-from-blocking-generic-drugs/