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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:59 PM
Original message
Death Toll Rises to 10 as Clashes in Iran Intensify
Source: New York Times

BEIRUT, Lebanon — Iranian police opened fire into crowds of protesters in Tehran on Sunday, killing at least 10 people and setting off a day of chaotic street battles that seemed poised to deepen the country’s civil unrest, as demonstrators in cities across Iran flooded the streets and fiercely fought back against security forces, witnesses and opposition Web sites said.

The protests, on the holiday commemorating the death of Hussein, Shiite Islam’s holiest martyr, were the bloodiest and among the largest since the uprisings that followed Iran’s disputed presidential election last June, witnesses said. Hundreds of people were reported wounded, and the Tehran police said they had made 300 arrests.

The Iranian authorities’ decision to fire into crowds on the sacred Ashura holiday infuriated many Iranians, and some said the violence appeared to be galvanizing more traditional religious people who have not been part of the protests so far. The Shah’s forces never fired on protesters during Ashura, wary of violating the day’s strictures against violence.

In Tehran, thick crowds marched down a central avenue in mid-morning, defying official warnings of a harsh crackdown on protests as they chanted “death to Khamenei!” referring to Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. . . .


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/28/world/middleeast/28iran.html?hp



Wow. We are witnessing history, my friends.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. It will be daylight in about 4 or 5 hours in Iran.
Tomorrow will bring the next chapter. Will the police fight the people or join them?
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. The article starts with "Police opened fire into crowds," so I think that question's answered. (nt)
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. We'll see.
There were several reports and videos of the riot cops joining with the protesters after being overwhelmed.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. The more they kill...
the less control they have.

I hope we are witnessing history being made.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. "history" of foreign intervention.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nephew of Iranian opposition leader (Mousavi) killed: aide
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 11:34 AM by Turborama
Source: CTV

A nephew of Iranian opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi has reportedly been killed in clashes between anti-government protesters and security forces, an aide said Sunday.

According to the aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the nephew died in hospital after suffering injuries in a mass demonstration in central Tehran.

The reformist web site, Parlemannews.ir, also reported the death.

It is unclear if the death is one of the four earlier reported during mass anti-government protests that took place across the Iranian capital Sunday.

Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20091227/iran_protests_091227/20091227?hub=World



Updates regularly coming in on http://www.google.com/search?q=mousavi++nephew&hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&tbs=rltm:1&tbo=u&ei=QoU3S9-YGYre7AOQ7uD-BQ&sa=X&oi=realtime_result_group_more_results_link&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CBkQ5QUwAw">this Google Twitter feed.

---- --- ----

Iran protests leave nine dead, reports claim

Opposition leader Mousavi's nephew 'among the fatalities' as Tehran and other cities erupt in protest and violence on holy day

Robert Tait
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 27 December 2009 16.18 GMT

The nephew of Iran's reformist opposition leader, Mir Hossein Mousavi, was reported to be among at least nine people killed after the streets of Tehran and other cities erupted in violent clashes between security forces and protesters.

Ali Mousavi, 35 and a father of two, was reportedly shot through the heart after police opened fire during disturbances in Tehran's Enghelab Square.

News of his death, reported by the reformist website Parlemannews, was certain to send shock waves through Iran's opposition Green Movement.

=snip=

Parlemannews reported that Mousavi had gone to Ebn-e Sina Hospital, where the body of his nephew had been taken. He was accompanied by the dead man's parents and fellow reformist politicians.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/27/nine-dead-iran-protests
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. This is a Very Big Story, my friends.
Looks like a full-blown revolution taking place in Iran, and DU should take note.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. very few here care about actual news
unless there's a way they can bitch and moan about how the utopia that exists in their heads isn't being fulfilled.


But yes, this is an amazing story. Probably the most important international event of the decade.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. +1
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
57. -1
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
35. oh what bollocks your header and first line (n/t)
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Marg bar Khamenei!!! nt.
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Flaneur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
73. Are you advocating for the death of a foreign leader?
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rollin74 Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. K & R
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Thanks for that twitter feed link
Looks like they are posting videos on youtube:
Même phénomène en video cette foisRT @oxfordgirl: Video supposed to be footage Mousavi Nephew shhoting #iranelection
YouTube - GREENUNITY4IRAN's Channel - youtube.com
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://bit.ly/8oF7mx&ei=4Zc3S5P-BYrANZ2_-IIJ&sa=X&oi=microblog_result&resnum=3&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CA0QoAQoADAC&usg=AFQjCNH6ja0ZUJSRlWToO8-pzm0fE2mwZg
leclaviste - twitter.com - 1 minute ago

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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks for the link to that channel
I've just subscribed and added the link to a post I recently put up in the videos forum: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=417438&mesg_id=417438
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rollin74 Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. interesting link
with video and pics from the clashes in Iran
http://freegreeniran.blogspot.com/

some of it is graphic
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's a very good blog, thanks
Bookmarked and added to the thread in the political videos forum mentioned above.
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sixmile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
65. WARNING!!!!
Extremely graphic bloody snuff film at the top of the blog. Watch at your own risk.
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. From LA Times


latimes.com
Deaths reported amid chaos and violence in Iran
The nephew of opposition leader Mir-Hossein Mousavi is said to have been killed as protesters in Tehran turn an annual Shiite Muslim holiday into a day of raucous demonstrations.

By Borzou Daragahi and Ramin Mostaghim

7:35 AM PST, December 27, 2009

Reporting from Tehran and Beirut

The Iranian capital erupted in massive and fiery morning-to-dusk protests today as tens of thousands of demonstrators clashed with security forces on the occasion of an important Shiite Muslim holiday.

Several witnesses told The Times that Iranian security forces opened fire with live ammunition against unarmed protesters near College Bridge in in the capital. And opposition news websites reported that several protesters had been killed, including Ali Mousavi, the adult nephew of opposition figurehead Mir-Hossein Mousavi.

Reformist websites said he was shot and taken to a Tehran hospital, where his uncle and other relatives soon arrived.

The information could not be independently confirmed, and a police source denied that protesters had been killed in a comment to the pro-government Fars News Agency.

But a witness in front of City Theater in downtown Tehran said she saw a fallen man, apparently stabbed in the back, and spotted another man falling to the ground after a volley of shots was fired near Enghelab Street, which emerged as the epicenter of the day's clashes.

The reports of deaths came during a harrowing day of multiple, rolling clashes between police and Iranian protesters coinciding with an important Ashura religious commemoration as well as the significant seventh day of mourning following the death of the country's leading dissident cleric, Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri.

Reformist websites and witnesses also reported clashes in the cities of Qom, Esfahan, Najafabad, Kashan, Shiraz, Babol and Mashhad.

Demonstrators vowed to continue the protests into the night, with reformist news websites identifying key Tehran squares for gatherings.

"There is no let-up," said Farzad, a 30-year-old who attended today's protests with his girlfriend. "We will go ahead until we topple the government."

Across the capital, witnesses described scenes of pandemonium, which were confirmed by video footage posted online. One described Tehran as a war zone, and another likened the situation to open "civil war" as increasingly bold demonstrators took on security forces, in one case stripping a member of the security forces naked before letting him go, a witness said.

Despite a heavy crackdown, the protest movement that emerged from Iran's disputed June 12 presidential election has grown increasingly daring, with those who want abolition of the Islamic Republic increasingly vocal.

Protesters had vowed for weeks to turn today's annual Ashura commemoration marking the 7th century martyrdom of Imam Hussein, grandson of the prophet Muhammad, into an anti-government demonstration.

The green-themed protest movement sought to meld its cry of injustice with the emotionally powerful narrative of Imam Hussein, whom Shiites believe was unjustly robbed of his throne as the leader of the faithful when he was cut down in battle by the Yazid on the fields outside Karbala, in what is now southern Iraq.

"This is a month of blood," they chanted. "Yazid will be defeated!" "We will fight, we will die, we will get our country back!" the protesters yelled out, holding ribbons of green.

Black plumes of smoke could be seen rising from downtown Tehran. Video posted online showed protesters beating pro-government militiamen as their motorcycles burned in the background. Helicopters hovered in the skies.

Protesters built fires in trash cans to ward off the effects of tear gas. Witnesses described running street battles between plainclothes and uniformed security officers and demonstrators, some throwing stones, in more than a dozen Tehran localities.

At Enghelab Square, a police car was set ablaze, and protesters set fire to motorcycles belonging to riot police in various locales.

The wail of ambulance sirens could be heard all over the city. Car horns honked on expressways as motorists created traffic jams in an effort to prevent security forces from moving freely. Drivers on nearby streets leaned on their horns and flashed "V" hand signs despite the heavy presence of police deployed around main squares. Passengers on buses could be heard chanting slogans.

"Ya Hossein, Mir Hossein!" they chanted in support of opposition figurehead Mousavi.

Around Vali Asr intersection, police fired tear-gas canisters in an attempt to disperse thousands of protesters shouting "Death to the dictator" and "Today is a day of mourning."

daragahi@latimes.com
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Wow. Just wow.
Huge story; a genuine revolution taking place.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Yeah, but don't you know all politics is local.
By which it seems to be meant that all politics is local to American DUers.

It's the wrong kind of revolution. Etc., etc. So it's not really important. If the resulting government is even vaguely not vehemently anti-American, it'll be seen as being fomented by the CIA.

We don't have a smiley for "I'm endeavoring to be not a little sarcastic, but I'm afraid that my attempt at sarcasm merely achieves veridicality." For that there's :scared:
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Exactly.
While those comments are thankfully absent in this thread (thus far), it's amazing to me how dismissive some of the people on this board are of the hardships being faced by demonstrators in Iran.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Well a lot of posters here just LUV the govt of any country
that is anti-American. Not matter how bad they are. Sad but true.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. another load of bollocks (n/t)
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
63. It's really not "bollocks", my friend.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
58. " . . . it'll be seen as being fomented by the CIA."

New York Times: Secrets of History - The CIA in Iran

The Central Intelligence Agency's secret history of its covert operation to overthrow Iran's government in 1953 offers an inside look at how the agency stumbled into success, despite a series of mishaps that derailed its original plans.

Written in 1954 by one of the coup's chief planners, the history details how United States and British officials plotted the military coup that returned the shah of Iran to power and toppled Iran's elected prime minister, an ardent nationalist.

The document shows that:

1. Britain, fearful of Iran's plans to nationalize its oil industry, came up with the idea for the coup in 1952 and pressed the United States to mount a joint operation to remove the prime minister.

2. The C.I.A. and S.I.S., the British intelligence service, handpicked Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi to succeed Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh and covertly funneled $5 million to General Zahedi's regime two days after the coup prevailed.

3. Iranians working for the C.I.A. and posing as Communists harassed religious leaders and staged the bombing of one cleric's home in a campaign to turn the country's Islamic religious community against Mossadegh's government.


http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html
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rollin74 Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. AFP: White House condemns suppression in Iran
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. At Least 4 Dead as Iranians Fight Police in Streets
Source: New York Times

BEIRUT, Lebanon — Iranian police opened fire on protesters in Tehran on Sunday, killing at least four people, including a nephew of the opposition leader Mir Hussein Moussavi, as vast crowds of demonstrators flooded the streets of cities across Iran and fiercely fought security forces, according to witnesses and opposition Web sites.

The protests, taking place on the holiday marking the death of Shiite Islam’s holiest martyr, were the bloodiest — and among the largest — since the uprisings that followed Iran’s disputed presidential election last June, with hundreds of thousands of people thronging Tehran alone, witnesses said. There were reports of hundreds of injured people and numerous arrests.

In Tehran, thick crowds marched down a central avenue in mid-morning, defying official warnings of a harsh crackdown on protests as they chanted, “Death to the dictator!” They refused to retreat even as police fired tear gas, charged them with batons and discharged warning shots.

The police then opened fire directly into the crowd, opposition Web sites said, citing witnesses. At least four people were killed, the Web sites reported, and photographs circulated of a man with a bloodied head being carried from the scene. . .

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/28/world/middleeast/28iran.html?_r=1&hp



Wow. Looks like a full-scale revolt going on over there.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. The world could use a little more revolt against TPTB
Good for them.

I sense more revolt in the air.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. at first glance, i missed the word 'as' in the subject line...
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 11:07 AM by dysfunctional press
and thought that maybe they were having zombie problems over there. :shrug:
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. This is what moral courage looks like.
They are so much braver than we are. Oh, my heart goes out to them.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. If they are successful, and I believe they ultimately will be
then everyone else living under a government threatening civil liberties should expect to see more suppression of dissent.

It was ironic that a person was arrested for using Twitter to help the protestors avoid the police at the G20 Summit in Philadelphia only weeks after our government asked Twitter to postpone an outage scheduled for software updates so that protestors in Tehran could continue using Twitter to organize during the first protests following their bogus election.

In Copenhagen during COP15, "preventive arrests" were used to stifle protests and dissent. Also in Copenhagen, Hugo Chavez received multiple standing ovations from undeveloped nations (the geopolitical equivalent of "the masses") when he condemned capitalism and imperialism.

The Obama Administration backed bogus elections held by a coup government that stifled opposition with violence, including murders of outspoken dissidents.

This isn't just about Tehran. This is about TPTB versus people everywhere. Geographically isolated battles in a global war.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking too
so much braver than we, who sat idly by while our SCOTUS conducted a coup...just as those who so bravely protested for that Chief Justice in Pakistan are so much braver than we...and the activists and union leaders in SA who organize and protest under threat of death...what cowards we are, raise the "terror alert" or whatever it was called to orange or whatever and we cower behind our plastic and duct tape....

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rollin74 Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. so far the protesters don't seem to be backing down
even in the face of brutality and gunfire of the government and basij

that's a good sign
more power to them
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demoleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. (Iran-update): "Iran protesters killed, including Mousavi's nephew"
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 02:21 PM by demoleft
Source: bbc

Four protesters have been killed amid violence between anti-government crowds and police in Iran's capital, Tehran.

Opposition sources said the nephew of former presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi was among those killed when police opened fire.

A senior police official said three people had died in accidents, the fourth was hit by a bullet, but police were not carrying weapons.

Opposition websites also reported four deaths in Tabriz, north-western Iran.


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8431523.stm



few confirmartions, but moussavi's nephew' death seems certain.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I guess the people have had enough of propping up our stooges...
End the wars...bring our troops home now!
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zerox Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. What are you talking about?
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 02:52 PM by zerox
Khameni is our stooge? Last I checked, there hasn't been much US involvement in Iran in the last 30 years or so.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. your right...I read iraq when it said iran...
I just woke up and need my tea I guess before I start reading :P
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Cartoonist Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
32. Sounds familiar
"This is a month of blood," they chanted. "Yazid will be defeated!" "We will fight, we will die, we will get our country back!" the protesters yelled out, holding ribbons of green.
-
While I salute those Iranians who defy their government, I am genuinely scared of the right wing loonies in the US who defy ours.
The fall of the Berlin Wall came after Tiananmen Square. Not many people make the connection, but it has been made by wiser men than I.
Who knows what will spark the teabaggers here who want their country back?
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AverageJoe5 Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
34. The NYT shows its bias against the Iranian regime
The news story starts out stating "Iranian police opened fire into crowds of protesters in Tehran .....", making it sound as if the protesters were peaceful.

Nowhere does the news story mention that the rioting protesters were violent, threw rocks, burned vehicles in the streets, and injured several people including police and civilians. That's what the police were responding to. It would have been nice if the NYT had mentioned that to put the police response in its proper context.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Good luck with that line of bullshit..(nt)
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Try learning about the news before commenting!
The protesters were very peaceful in the beginning and were still shot! This did not start today!

I swear the ignorant comments from some people!

Or maybe you support this regime?
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. They do support the regime
I just checked on DU's Google search and it appears that they only come to DU to post pro-Ahmadinejad propaganda.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. WOW to know Ahmaddinejad has his propoganda arm...
in places like DU...Yeah, I know they are on YouTube big time trying to do damage control. It will be nice once this Theocracy falls. Watching what the Iranian People are going through is really hard.

I am so glad Cheney/Bush is not still in office or the reform movement would be over already. You know they would not be able to sit by and let the Iranian People deal with their own problems.

You know Cheney has to be wishing he was still running the show with Iran & Yemen unfolding the way they are.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. The vast majority of your posts defend Ahmadi's regime.
Care to introduce yourself and explain that?

Could it be that the famed cyber wing of the Republican Guard has made it to DU?

Regardless, I'm certain that you know enough of this issue to understand that the protestors are hardly the aggressors in these incidents.

:eyes:
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
38. PBS' Frontline has a very good "Tehran Bureau" site
Which has collated all the videos and stories: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
42. The CIA and your tax dollars at work.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
61. Yeah, Iranians themselves couldn't possibly be angry enough with their regime
to use their own brain power and initiative to openly defy it.

Get outta here, all of you fools who see foreign intelligence as the only intelligence at work here.

Get lost.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Nicely said.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. (New York Times) Secrets of History: The CIA in Iran
For nearly five decades, America's role in the military coup that ousted Iran's elected prime minister and returned the shah to power has been lost to history, the subject of fierce debate in Iran and stony silence in the United States. One by one, participants have retired or died without revealing key details, and the Central Intelligence Agency said a number of records of the operation — its first successful overthrow of a foreign government — had been destroyed.

But a copy of the agency's secret history of the coup has surfaced, revealing the inner workings of a plot that set the stage for the Islamic revolution in 1979, and for a generation of anti-American hatred in one of the Middle East's most powerful countries.

. . . .

The history says agency officers orchestrating the Iran coup worked directly with royalist Iranian military officers, handpicked the prime minister's replacement, sent a stream of envoys to bolster the shah's courage, directed a campaign of bombings by Iranians posing as members of the Communist Party, and planted articles and editorial cartoons in newspapers.

. . . .

The coup was a turning point in modern Iranian history and remains a persistent irritant in Tehran-Washington relations. It consolidated the power of the shah, who ruled with an iron hand for 26 more years in close contact with to the United States. He was toppled by militants in 1979. Later that year, marchers went to the American Embassy, took diplomats hostage and declared that they had unmasked a "nest of spies" who had been manipulating Iran for decades.

The Islamic government of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini supported terrorist attacks against American interests largely because of the long American history of supporting the shah. Even under more moderate rulers, many Iranians still resent the United States' role in the coup and its support of the shah.


http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-intro.html
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. I'm aware of the history, friend.
Though if you want your knowledge of it to be taken seriously, you might skip the copy and paste routine next time.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. So faced with the reality and underpinnings of what seemed like a great cause and a great movement,
you're disillusioned and angry, maybe even in denial.

Trust me, I understand the feeling.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. There was a time when I very strongly bought into your line of thinking
but then it hit me that even if there were U.S. involvement in massive street demos. and organized resistance like this, it would go nowhere if it wasn't tapping into some very strongly held beliefs within the countries in question. You look at the history of our actions in Iran and see it as an excuse to undercut or dismiss the people who are out there fighting, dying, being imprisoned or tortured for their cause. Frankly, it's rather crappy of you. Don't get me wrong, if the CIA is involved in this, I don't think they should be because it tarnishes what the demonstrators are doing. However, even that is no reason to sit on the sidelines and complain when people are fighting to throw off an oppressive regime.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. I think that if you look at history, the CIA wasn't interested in liberating the people.
It was interested in getting in power someone who would do business with them, and if that person is even more oppressive than the one just overthrown, the CIA thinks that it is so much the better.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. That's definitely true, however...
considering the lack of real evidence of a CIA role in this revolt, I'm not sure how much bearing that actually has on this situation.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. That article says nothing about the present situation.
Please provide a link that discusses how the CIA is behind the present unrest in Iran. Don't you think that the people of Iran might be pissed off about that stolen election and don't need the CIA to tell them what to do at this point?
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. (New York Times) Secrets of History: The CIA in Iran

Secrets of History: The CIA in Iran

The Central Intelligence Agency's secret history of its covert operation to overthrow Iran's government in 1953 offers an inside look at how the agency stumbled into success, despite a series of mishaps that derailed its original plans.

Written in 1954 by one of the coup's chief planners, the history details how United States and British officials plotted the military coup that returned the shah of Iran to power and toppled Iran's elected prime minister, an ardent nationalist.

The document shows that:

1. Britain, fearful of Iran's plans to nationalize its oil industry, came up with the idea for the coup in 1952 and pressed the United States to mount a joint operation to remove the prime minister.

2. The C.I.A. and S.I.S., the British intelligence service, handpicked Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi to succeed Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh and covertly funneled $5 million to General Zahedi's regime two days after the coup prevailed.

3. Iranians working for the C.I.A. and posing as Communists harassed religious leaders and staged the bombing of one cleric's home in a campaign to turn the country's Islamic religious community against Mossadegh's government.


http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html

Of course there are intelligent Iranians impassioned about their country. You know better than to try to erect a strawman as pathetic as that here. But you are blinding yourself to one of the most powerful forces in the events taking place, as history has shown, and as history is continuing to show. And those impassioned Iranians were there last time too.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. Show us the proof that the CIA, funded by our taxdollars,
is behind all the current attempts to defy the Iranian regime these days.

And lose the assumptions about what I am blind to and what I see.

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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. You didn't read the link I provided.
Go back and read it -- all of it.

Then you will have an answer to your question.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
44. Death toll in Tehran street battles rises to 15
Source: The Times (UK)

At least fifteen anti-government protesters, including a nephew of Mir Hossein Mousavi, Iran’s opposition leader, were shot dead yesterday as the smouldering confrontation between the regime and the so-called Green Movement finally erupted.

Early reports put the number of dead at five, but as clashes continued late into the night, Iranian state television reported that the number of dead had risen to 15. The Ministry of Intelligence said more than 10 were members of "anti-revolutionary terrorist" groups.

=snip=

Analysts heralded the start of what could be a bloody endgame as hundreds of thousands of opposition supporters poured on to the streets of Tehran and other cities and fought running battles with the security forces. Opposition websites claimed that some policemen had refused to fire on demonstrators.

Foreign journalists have been banned from Iran but Western newsrooms were inundated with mobile telephone footage of astonishing scenes: jubilant demonstrators attacking riot police and Basij militiamen, protesters gleefully setting light to a police station, Basiji building and motorbikes being captured from the security forces, detained protesters being freed from a police van while colleagues are carried away with blood pouring from gunshot wounds. Dozens were injured and more than 300 arrested. “The gloves are off. There is no question about that,” said one analyst. Ali Ansari, Professor of Iranian Studies at the University of St Andrews, said: “No one can now doubt that change is coming.”

Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6969416.ece



Over a hundred videos uploaded to YouTube channels linked to here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x417438
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marasinghe Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. kids facing guns & kicking fascist ass; literally. looks like the season for heroes.
the 2nd slide on your 'times' link, says it all.

rec'd for the kids - the real martyrs for freedom.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. This slide's quite powerful, too
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 04:19 AM by Turborama

Protesters put a green scarf on the head of a policeman
Reuters
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #45
54. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. Some very brave souls over there.
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. Like those opposing the coup in Hondouras. n/t
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. In the sense that
they're both willing to face severe beatings, imprisonment and even death to demonstrate for what they believe in? Yes. Though I personally don't consider it a coup.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Maybe they shoot protesters in Iran
I recall going to anti-war protests in 2003. There were millions of us, around the world (tens of thousands in my city). We were ignored and the invasion of Iraq went ahead. After it became clear that Bush lied to invade Iraq, nothing happened to him. Nothing at all. Not one little thing.
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Next time we organize--gen'l strike.
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 05:01 AM by clear eye
Not so easy to ignore.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Yeah, that may be an alternative
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 05:26 AM by daleo
I haven't given up on voting, but it could be that a general strike will be needed.

My dad got involved in serious labor movement activities back in the day. Perhaps we will have to go through all that again.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #47
55. They ignored your
protests but they sure didn't ignore the tea party protesters of far lesser numbers. Curious that. They being the PTB, behind the morass.
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #44
52. Viva la Revolution!
I pray the people actually come out of this bloody struggle with something.


At the very least least universal healthcare
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #44
60. The Times' link is broken in your post (nt)
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
56. "Aides to Iran’s Opposition Leader Said to Be Arrested"-NY Times Monday 8:30am ET.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/29/world/middleeast/29iran.html

"A day after violent protests rocked cities across Iran, the authorities arrested a number of opposition figures, Iranian Web sites reported, including three top aides to the opposition leader Mir Hussein Moussavi and Ibrahim Yazdi, leader of the banned Iran Freedom Movement."

"Also on Monday, the opposition cleric and reformist candidate Mehdi Karroubi lashed out at the authorities for using deadly force during Sunday’s nationwide protests, in which 10 people were reported to have been killed. “What has happened to this religious system that it orders the killing of innocent people during the holy day of Ashura?” Mr. Karroubi said in a statement, according to the opposition Jaras Web site."

"The decision by the authorities to use deadly force on the Ashura holiday infuriated many Iranians, and some said the violence appeared to galvanize more traditional religious people who have not been part of the protests so far. Historically, Iranian rulers have honored Ashura’s prohibition of violence, even during wartime."

"They refused to retreat even as the police fired tear gas, charged them with batons and fired warning shots. The police then opened fire directly into the crowd, opposition Web sites said, citing witnesses. At least five people were killed in Tehran, four in the northwestern city of Tabriz, and one in Shiraz in the south, the Web sites reported. Photographs of several victims were circulated widely."
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WhoIsNumberNone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
59. Death toll in Tehran street battles rises to 15
Source: Times Online

At least fifteen anti-government protesters, including a nephew of Mir Hossein Mousavi, Iran’s opposition leader, were shot dead yesterday as the smouldering confrontation between the regime and the so-called Green Movement finally erupted.

Early reports put the number of dead at five, but as clashes continued late into the night, Iranian state television reported that the number of dead had risen to 15. The Ministry of Intelligence said more than 10 were members of "anti-revolutionary terrorist" groups.

Foreign journalists have been banned from Iran but Western newsrooms were inundated with mobile telephone footage of astonishing scenes: jubilant demonstrators attacking riot police and Basij militiamen, protesters gleefully setting light to a police station, Basiji building and motorbikes being captured from the security forces, detained protesters being freed from a police van while colleagues are carried away with blood pouring from gunshot wounds. Dozens were injured and more than 300 arrested. “The gloves are off. There is no question about that,” said one analyst. Ali Ansari, Professor of Iranian Studies at the University of St Andrews, said: “No one can now doubt that change is coming.”

Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6969416.ece



For raw videos click these links:
http://www.youtube.com/user/GREENUNITY4IRAN#p/u/0/TABA1Dcw7nc
http://www.youtube.com/user/ahriman46#g/u
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-uW2EuzfDM
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
62. I see the fucking Iran Apologists are out AGAIN!
:puke:
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
66. I've been glued to this news for days.
I went to school with some Iranians in '79, and now I'm teaching a couple of Iranians.

I agree: This is history.
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