Reports: Gunman kills 4 at Finnish shopping center

[NYC Liberal]

Source: CNN

Reports: Gunman kills 4 at Finnish shopping center

A shooting at a shopping center outside the Finnish capital of Helsinki on Thursday left at least 4 people dead, according to state broadcaster YLE.

The shooting happened midmorning at the Sello shopping center in the town of Espoo, YLE and CNN affiliate MTV3 reported.

There was one gunman involved, and police were still looking for him inside the mall, MTV3 reporter Pout Anan told CNN.

The dead included three women and one man, YLE reported.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/12/31/finland.shooting.shopping.mall/index.html

[pampango]

1. A TimesOnline article that highlights gun ownership in Finland.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6972377.ece

"The search for a middle aged man suggests that the killings may not be following the same pattern. There is a heavy metal community in the town, centred on the band Children of Bodom (who take their name from an unsolved murder in nearby Lake Bodom), and the schools have been trying to tackle a teenage drop-out problem, but this time the problem seems not to be focused on disaffected youth.

It does however highlight the slow progress that has been made on tightening gun ownership Finland is a country of hunters and there are some 1.6 million weapons in private possession - in a country with only 5.3 million inhabitants.

After the second attack in 2008, rules were tightened. Handgun permits were issued only to those who had trained for at least a year at a gun club. Applicants are now required to provide a statement about their mental health from their local doctor and answer questions submitted by the police.

There are however several loopholes and the new regulations apply mainly to first time applicants for a gun licence."

[sam sarrha]

2. in NC you have to have a permit to buy a gun.on question on the form is, have you ever been charged

with demestic violence.. among many others.

lots of people here carry guns..

[TheWraith]

5. Yes. Technically, the question itself is sort of irrelevant...

They aren't taking the person's word for it, they're searching the NICS database to see if that person has any disqualifications such as a felony conviction, or misdemeanor domestic violence, etcetera. If they do, then (presuming that the person lied about that on the form) they have extra charges of perjury.

[sam sarrha]

7. that is a given... but knowing thats a fact will deter them from getting one legally. here you cant

sell a hand gun privately without the paper work.not that is any sort of guarantee to prevent it.. anybody can get a gun if they want one,.. don't have to use a hand gun to rob or kill.

but its difficult to relate conceal and carry statistics.. in high crime environments there will be more people carrying.. its easy to twist the stats just change the order of cause and effect.. make a lie sound good for political purposes... that's all the ReThuglicans do. or some other nut case with an agenda

[SteveM]

4. The % of Finns with guns is not much different than % of Americans...

Assuming the data given is correct, and assuming the estimates of U.S. gun-ownership are correct (at least 80 million in a country of 300 million), some 30% of Finns own firearms while some 27% of Americans own them. IMO, the American ownership is probably at least 30%.

Again, we see the discussion turn to "loopholes" and "slow progress that has been made on tightening gun ownership."

If the Times can't make prohibition happen here, maybe they will campaign in Finland.

[TheWraith]

3. I always think about why we're bothered so much by these things.

And it's because they're "sexy," in the "it bleeds, it leads" kind of way. Speaking for here in the US, the number of people killed when someone snaps and goes on a rampage is microscopic compared to the number of young black and brown men who are killed in gang wars created and sustained by our insane drug policy. But apparently those people don't count because it happened someplace where it didn't scare people into watching the news. Hell, more people are killed every day on the freeways just in LA than are killed by mass shootings all over the US, but still, it only counts as "news" if they can get shock value out of it. It reminds me of the Joker's monologue out of The Dark Knight: "No one panics when things go according to plan... even if the plan is horrible. Like if I say that tomorrow, a gang banger will be shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics. But threaten to kill one little old mayor, and everyone loses their mind."

[sam sarrha]

6. Finland has by far the highest Suicide rate, 27/100,000 the problem isn't guns its pointing them at

your head.. and needlessly taking others with you.

http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514256042/html/x335.html
"Finland has one of the highest rates of suicide mortality in the world. While the suicide rate per 100 000 mean population was 27.2 (males and females together) in the year 1995, it was 14.2 (1996) in Sweden, 12.6 (1995) in Norway and 10.1 (1995) in Iceland. When compared with other European countries, the suicide rate was 7.5 (1994) in Great Britain, 20.8 (1994) in France and 9.8 (1995) in the Netherlands. Respectively, the rates for suicides were 16.7 (1994) in Japan, 13.5 (1995) in Canada, and 11.9 (1995) in the USA (Statistics Finland 1999a). ..."

this is a problem concerning mental health.. they have seasonal variations in suicide frequency

[Tesha]

8. Bingo!

> this is a problem concerning mental health.. they have seasonal variations in suicide frequency

Bingo. Because of their extreme northern latitude, they have
a relatively huge variation in the length of their day, so
winters are very dark indeed, especially compared to their
summers where the darkness doesn't arrive until ten or eleven
o'clock at night.

Perhaps for the same reason, alcohol abuse is also rampant
and the two things probably go hand in hand in helping to
explain the high suicide rate.

Tesha