Venezuela begins 2010 with electricity rationing

[demoleft]

Source: afp

AFP - Oil-rich Venezuela ushered in 2010 with new measures rationing electricity use in malls, businesses and billboards, as Hugo Chavez's government aimed to save power amid a crippling drought.

The new regulations came into effect January 1, with businesses required to comply with reduced consumption limits and authorities warning of forced power cuts and rate hikes if the measures are not followed.

A decree published on Christmas Eve states that commercial centers may operate from 11:00 am to 9:00 pm on the electricity grid, but beyond that establishments would have to operate off-grid, using their own generators.

Venezuela is flush with oil -- the country's primary export -- and natural gas, but relies mainly on hydroelectric generation to meet domestic energy demand.


Read more: http://www.france24.com/en/node/4960961

[WriteDown]

1. Wonder how many new power plants they will build to deal with this issue. nt

[Cerridwen]

10. They've another hydroelectric dam slated to come online in 2012 or 2014

depending on the news source. It was begun in 2002 or 2007, again, depending on the news source.

Venezuelan Finance Minister Ali Rodriguez says the loan will be used to complete the Manuel Piar Dam, which will produce roughly 2,160 megawatts of power.

According to this news source; which matches a couple others I found.

It looks like they may have more under construction:

"What is really important for us is how we are going to face future requirements," Padron said. "It is estimated that the electric system needs more than 1,000 MW of new installed capacity per year for the next ten years to meet demand."

At least 11 hydroelectric projects are in some form of development in Venezuela, she said. (I couldn't find the date at this link so not sure when that statement was made.)

[WriteDown]

15. Considering a large drought is to blame...

That may not be the best course of action.

[Cerridwen]

18. Well, it appears they've talked about nuclear power for a few years.

For some reason people aren't especially happy about that.

Of course, I guess they can get on the solar boat or fossil fuels boat. But, if water shortages continue, power generation may be the least of their problems in the long run.

[Doctor_J]

17. they're going to need another gW over the next 10 yr

Hugo must be anticipating a lot of growth.

[Cerridwen]

19. Hmmm, maybe "modernization" of rural areas?

That would be my WAG (wild assed guess).

Maybe he plans to sell power to Columbia during the next long term drought; provided, of course, everyone makes it through this one? :(

[RainMickey]

53. The rural areas currently suffer much more than the cities.

At least from my experience.

[Cerridwen]

55. One would think.

I know that frequently happens in the US and I've heard much the same is true in Canada with regard to services and such.

Rural areas, regardless of country, always seem to be a smidge (or more) "out of the loop" when it comes to access to some things.

[bbinacan]

2. It doesn't seem that hydro

is doing the job.

[JonQ]

9. Too bad they don't have any other energy source available

[bbinacan]

23. LOL

:rofl:

[boppers]

36. Well, Hugo does generate a lot of wind...

Turbines, perhaps?

[JonQ]

38. Would need to work on some new materials

that wouldn't shake apart at the RPMs he would generate. I don't think any current alloys are up to the task.

[Ken Burch]

60. None of you guys who want conservatism back in power in Venezuela

have offered any positive suggestions.

Certainly nothing would be improved with austerity budgets and the return of corporate dominance.

Nicaragua tried it your way when Bush forced them to in 1990, and the result was sixteen years of misery.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

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[Socal31]

75. Right...

Because there is nothing between a loony Castro wannabe, and conservatism.

[ChangoLoa]

76. Conservatism "back" in Venezuela?

Or "neo-liberalism"? The last conservative party in Venezuela was dismantled and banned after the civil war in 1863.

[dkf]

3. Not many private firms want to deal with that Govt either.

I sure hope they have home grown expertise in every area imaginable.

[EFerrari]

21. That is simply not true. Plus, they've developed a great regional tech

network.

[Bucky]

86. They have a lot of home grown expertise. Too bad they've all fled the country.

Venezuela has a pretty good college system. All my Venezuelan friends here in Houston have college degrees.

[Arctic Dave]

4. Makes sense. Good way to mitigate a problem.

[DissedByBush]

5. So how's that socialism working out for you?

Sitting on all of those oil riches and they can't even keep the lights on.

[Cerridwen]

6. Socialism caused a drought?

South America is suffering drought conditions which is impacting their water levels at hydroelectric dams.

Colombia's energy minister, Hernan Martinez, said the drought has forced Colombia to stop supplying Venezuela with 70 to 80 megawatts a day. link

You think socialism's drought hit Columbia, too?

Dry weather in Venezuela and other parts of South America this year has been blamed on the El Nino weather phenomenon over the Pacific Ocean. Parts of Bolivia, Ecuador, Guyana and Argentina have also been coping with drought.

El Nino is a socialist. Who knew?

[JonQ]

8. They have a more or less centrally planned economy right?

Big things like power production are under the control of the government largely. Now, do you suppose it would have been possible to predict that the weather will, stay with me here, not always act according to how you want it to? And as such you could I dunno, maybe plan for those times?

Ok, now I know I'm laying some heavy stuff on you but I'm almost done. Given that it might just be possible to realize the rain won't always come at the right time, and the knowledge that hydro requires that rain to work, and we can plan for future events, and the economy is controlled by a central government, that that government may have provided an alternative energy source for just such a scenario? Like, and this is going way out on the limb, oil which they have in spades?

Yeah, once you take credit for the economy you also get the blame when things go wrong. Especially easily predicted and prevented things.

[Cerridwen]

11. See my post #10. I'd remind you, capitalism did *not* protect

the south when Katrina hit. Wouldn't you think they might have planned for that as well? Hurricanes seem to be a fairly regular events.

Weather conditions are changing planet wide; "Mother Earth" doesn't appear to give two shits whether "She" nails communists, socialists, capitalists, or Bambi.

[JonQ]

22. When katrina hit

did people say "oh well, that's nature, can't predict the weather". Or did the blame go to our president at the time? (I can't recall who that was at the moment)

I would argue that the leader of Venezuela has more direct authority to control the response to this drought than any US president has to respond to a hurricane. They don't have a federalist system afterall.

[Cerridwen]

24. The *response* to Katrina was blamed on the shrub.

The cause of the disaster was shown to be lack of money spent on infrastructure. Kinda like what's gonna happen lots here in the US if we're not careful with our money (politics) before sense approach to infrastructure.

Interesting little tidbit I found while googling around about this issue:

In March 1975, President Marcos Pérez announced that all electrical generating companies would be taken over by the state by the end of the year and merged into a single enterprise. Privatization of many government-owned enterprises began in 1991. link

Weird, huh? Seems a lot of this whole nationalization stuff has been happening there for a couple of decades yet people seem to think ol' Chavez started it because he's some maniacal dictator.

[JonQ]

37. So chavez, who is in charge now

is in no way responsible for the response to the weather. But bush, who was in charge at the time is responsible for his response to the weather.

Interesting. I wonder what the world would be like if every politician were held to the same standard.

[Cerridwen]

43. Did you type that with a straight face? Seriously?

M'kay. You just came mighty close to defending shrub's response to Katrina in order to catapult some interesting take on Chavez.

The knots you're tieing yourself into in order to argue your case are kind of interesting to watch; in that watching a train wreck kind of interesting. Well, at least they led me to search out and read your other posts. The pattern is pretty obvious.

Here ya go; the last word can now be yours.

[JonQ]

46. Really, you don't understand the point I'm making?

That people make excuses for chavez they would never make for other leaders? Well, I guess if you drink enough of the kool aid . . .

[Wilms]

51. Curious.

What I notice is people criticizing Chavez for things (real and imagined) they would never make criticize another leader for.

How many Haiti election posts were made this week by the DUs self-appointed Latin American democracy cops?

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

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[Wilms]

56. You're concern, as previously indicated, is noted. n/t

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[polly7]

12. I've yet to hear of any country fully prepared for any natural disaster.

Chavez is taking preventative measures. That doesn't seem so bad.

[zeemike]

16. Well El Nino refers to the Christ Child.

the people called it that because it arrived at Christmas time
And so it refers to Jesus and yes he was a socialist.

[Cerridwen]

20. Well, there ya go.

I didn't know (or didn't remember I knew) that.

[DissedByBush]

64. Jesus a socialist?

All that talk about helping your fellow man and giving was directed towards individual people, not governments.

[fascisthunter]

81. lol... slick

[DissedByBush]

52. Not the drought

Obviously their homegrown hydro was not enough to supply the country with Colombia supplying so much power.

They have the resources to build natural gas plants, but didn't because Chavez is funding his revolution, which cannot survive economically, on exporting it all. Even then there are shortages.

[Cerridwen]

58. I live in the western part of the US. We have water shortages and

restrictions. Hoover Dam is starting to look like a big hole in the ground and Lake Mead is swiftly becoming a large-ish mud puddle.

California was treated to rolling brown outs brought to them by Enron.

Carson City, NV has occasional power outages during winters, due to trees taking out power lines because they're always surprised when snow makes the branches heavy.

Las Vegas, NV is prone to flooding because who knew, building in flood plains would put people and buildings in the way of, er, um, flood waters.

This isn't about political philosophy though a whole lotta people sure want to make it such.

It's about countries' infrastructures and priorities.

South American countries are suffering from the worst drought in 40 years. It's all socialism's fault.

The coming years in the US given the current condition of our infrastructure will be interesting. I'll tell you what the "main stream media" won't be blaming it on; capitalism.

[DissedByBush]

65. Priorities, exactly

Chavez is using all of the oil riches to fund the revolution. Or to look at it in a skeptical manner as I tend to do, buying off voters with petro-cash.

In alienating the oil companies he's even made things worse. Nobody wants to invest and the locals don't have the expertise. He easily had the money to keep the lights on with gas-powered plants, but maintaining his power in his socialist (I won't say Bolivarian because Bolivar wasn't a socialist) revolution was more important.

I just hope the people remember this at the next election unless Chavez has blamed this on the "Imperialist Americans" too, and they buy it again.

You can tell I don't like power-hungry politicians.

I also don't like socialism. It works great for ants, but humans aren't ants.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

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[DissedByBush]

71. I forgot about that one n/t

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Ken Burch]

61. It would be worse if the right was running things

Colombia isn't exactly a paradise.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

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[Greyhound]

87. The Venezuelans think it's better. n/t

[onehandle]

13. Toilet paper next, comrades. nt

[Ken Burch]

59. There'd be power-rationing if Venezuela was capitalist, too.

And the poor would lose everything.

This has nothing to do with Chavez' policies, and "moderates" don't have any better ideas on how to deal with this.

Certainly nothing would be improved by kissing corporate ass with tax bribes.

[ChangoLoa]

78. The state has always administrated most of the energy sector in Venezuela

The country works as a state-oil-plained capitalism since the 30's. The power generating capacities were mainly built by the state, which traditionally has planned the consumption's growth. Sometimes efficiently, sometimes not.

I agree with you on one thing: the problem here is not about socialism or capitalism. I think it's poor planning aggravated by the drought. El Niño happens every 5 to 10 years and the energy cuts started before it. They exploded with the drought, which was foreseeable since El Niño is a recurrent event. At the same time, it's far from being a new subject. Venezuelan experts, press, government agencies have all been talking about the necessity to build gas power plants, in order to complete the hydro electrical production capacity, for years.

[Ken Burch]

80. The issue, then, is that NOBODY's dealt with it.

What you just said proves that the "this only happened because Chavez is in power" line is bullshit.

[dipsydoodle]

14. Its called forward thinking

Makes me wonder how Las Vegas will cope when the turbines cease to function at the Hoover Dam within the next 10 years or so.

[slackmaster]

44. I'm sure they'll just ration power because there is no other possible way to generate it

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Haole Girl]

25. Wow

Didn't expect to see it get to this. :-(

[Synicus Maximus]

26. Venezuela begins 2010 with electricity rationing

Source: Breitbart.com

Oil-rich Venezuela ushered in 2010 with new measures rationing electricity use in malls, businesses and billboards, as Hugo Chavez's government aimed to save power amid a crippling drought.

The new regulations came into effect January 1, with businesses required to comply with reduced consumption limits and authorities warning of forced power cuts and rate hikes if the measures are not followed.

Read more: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.227e6a4e11ba39c08630e5729d693330.9e1&show_article=1

---

Let the games began.

[dipsydoodle]

27. Well then

its a shame he don't control the weather. Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to which President is able to do so.
:sarcasm:

[HeresyLives]

28. Oh good, I thot it was just me

that wondered what the 'games' comment meant.

[dipsydoodle]

39. I think that refered to

"lets stick something in LBN with the deliberate intention of causing arguments between those of us either positive or neutral toward Chavez and those who are anti come what may"

I concluded that the poster's name might better be Minimus Dickus.

I'd recommend you check out the Latin America forum.

:hi:

[ronnie624]

48. Even when you do figure out what the poor saps are struggling to say,

you then must deal with many layers of presuppositions about the world, all reinforced by a lifetime of exposure to propaganda. Sometimes it's best to just read and move on.

[twitomy]

29. What does drougnt have to do with electrical shortage?

Is a lot of Venzuala power generated by hydro dams?:shrug:

Went back and read...So they do use a lot of hydro power. Makes more sense now.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Lousy commies don't know about fine christian rolling brown-outs.

[wuushew]

31. In the future please check for duplicate posts first

Does the handbook of agitprop call for gratuitous spam?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

32. They've got lots of oil.

Msybe they can go back to oil lamps.

[EFerrari]

33. breitbart?

[dipsydoodle]

40. Origin seems to have been

AFP aka The Tossers Press Corp.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

49. Thanks, I saw that. I don't I'll ever recover from watching this gentleman

once on CSPAN who unaccountably was taping a radio show. He made my teeth hurt. lol :hi:

[Renew Deal]

34. That's the cost of living in the socialistic paradise of Venezuala.

:shrug:

[polly7]

41. You've never had to cut down on anything at all?

So many people have such hate for Chavez, why accept his oil, in particular, the cheap heating oil he provides in hard times? Boycott him and show him the evil of his socialistic ways. That'll do it...

[Ken Burch]

62. Things are just as bad in the capitalistic paradise of Colombia

And nothing Democrats believe in would be achieved in Venezuela by letting the rich come back and swagger around again.

[bitchkitty]

89. It probably is paradise to the majority of the population,

who until Chavez lived their lives under the heels of the elite.

I find it weird that someone whose user name is apparently a play on Roosevelt's New Deal, would join in with the agitprop against a progressive leader, and not see the irony.

[UTUSN]

35. K&R #7!1 Just for NOW!1 Soon the Hugo Squad will knock it down!1 n/t

[fascisthunter]

82. it's too easy... the right wing stuff posted against the man is ridiculous

most see right through it.

[slackmaster]

42. Piss-Poor Planning

How hard is it to build a few gas-powered cogeneration plants to take up the slack during peak load times?

Maybe Hugo should nationalize the power industry.

[dipsydoodle]

50. If its that easy

how come nothing has yet been done with regard to planning the supply of electricity and water to Las Vegas when Lake Mead finally dries up.

[boppers]

63. Because Nevada doesn't have huge production abilities, perhaps?

Well, that and Las Vegas isn't exactly running on the bare minimum (with blackouts) yet.

[slackmaster]

73. The existing grid could supply LV with power from elsewhere if that happens suddenly

And it's not going to happen suddenly, if it happens at all.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

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[ronnie624]

84. There really is no apt comparison.

Nevada, as a state, has never been subject to imperialist designs by foreign powers. It doesn't have to worry about other countries in the region waging war against its established order or otherwise meddling in its domestic affairs. It doesn't have to worry about disentangling itself from a system that has for centuries diverted resources and capital from benefiting the inhabitants. It doesn't have to worry about a delicate balance between its energy needs, and selling its energy resources as a major source of desperately needed national revenue, nor does the government have to worry about a highly contentious political opposition, that would gladly see the country descend into chaos, in order to regain power. Nevada is integral to the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth, and therefor does not have the same concerns as Venezuela. It enjoys the luxury of being able to focus on its domestic concerns without having to worry about external threats.

Venezuela's economy has seen dramatic growth during the last six years. There is nothing surprising in seeing energy demands outstrip the the ability to supply those demands, especially in the middle of a drought. There are new power plants being built, and they are scheduled to come online in the next couple of years. Until then, the people there will just have to deal. It is too bad their problems will be compounded by the aggressive posture of a certain behemoth to their north.

[WriteDown]

45. Hmm, 3 minute showers, no electricity. Fun times. nt

[bitchkitty]

88. Except that the rationing

will be businesses, malls and billboards. But you already knew that.

Carry on and don't let those pesky facts get in your way!

[RainMickey]

47. Power outages occur daily, sometimes for several

hours, sometimes longer than a day in the smaller communities. People are generally pretty patient with it, just shrugging their shoulders and saying "what can we do?".

[LanternWaste]

57. Every summer, North Central Texas enacts water rationing.

Every summer, the vast majority of cities in North Central Texas enact water rationing. It seems reasonable to do so.

[roamer65]

66. Sounds like Venezuela needs a couple of nuclear plants.

:evilgrin:

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

72. As soon as Iran starts the enrichment program

Maybe that's why Chavez loves Ahmadinejad.

:hi:

[David__77]

74. This is to the benefit of residential consumers.

This is to ensure that there is ample energy for personal use. I do think it would have been good for Venezuela to have a vigorous nuclear energy program for the past decade, and then this would not have been a problem. But, there are always trade-offs.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. A similar thing happened in Brazil in 2002. Of course, the President then was not a leftie.

Which explains the absence of the hollering and high-fiving I see in this thread.

Had it happened one year later, it'd be blamed on Lula's leftism to the four winds, I'm sure.

[PacerLJ35]

83. These Hugo threads are entertaining...

I don't trust the guy myself...he's very shady. But whatever...to each their own opinion. I find it very entertaining to see the folks on here that shout "Viva Hugo!" and virtually glorify the guy. Guess what...here's a tip...HE'S A POLITICIAN! Nuff said.

[harun]

90. Vive Chavez!

[RainMickey]

85. Talked to a lady in the east of the country today.

Apparently this is growing into a fairly big political issue. Not only are the commercial centers being limited on full electricity usage daily, there appear to be daily blackouts in the cities as well. She also commented that they were without water for the entire day and that this will become a regular occurance.