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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:52 AM
Original message
Lieberman tanks
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 11:53 AM by kpete
Source: Public Policy Polling

Thursday, January 7, 2010
Lieberman tanks
Want to know how far Joe Lieberman has fallen in the wake of the health care vote last month? Barack Obama's approval rating with Connecticut Republicans is higher than Lieberman's with the state's Democrats.

81% of Democrats now disapprove of Lieberman's job performance with only 14% approving, and he's not real popular with Republicans who disapprove of him by a 48/39 margin or with independents who do so by a 61/32 spread either. It all adds up to a 25% approval rating with 67% of his constituents giving him bad marks.

Lieberman managed to antagonize both sides with his actions during the health care debate. Among voters who support the health care bill 87% disapprove of how Lieberman handled it with only 10% supporting it. But by voting for the final product after getting it watered down he also managed to earn the unhappiness of constituents opposed to the bill, 52% of whom say they disapprove of what Lieberman did to 33% in support.

Overall just 19% of voters in the state say they like what Lieberman did on the issue with 68% opposed.

Read more: http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/lieberman-tanks.html



Full Results Here:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_CT_107.pdf
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. My heart breaks for him.
Just kidding.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Couldn't happen to a more deserving assclown
Traitor Joe has gotta go!
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I hear Zell Miller needs a roommate.
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SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
103. Mine too.
Playing everything down the middle earned him bites from both sides. Reap what you sow, Joe.
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bkohatlanta Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
104. Joe Lieberman is Beneath Contempt!
Opposes Healthcare Reform, even though 50,000 are killed every year because they can't afford to go to the Doctor.
Supports Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes and Atrocities.
Grants Exemptions to the Geneva and Hague Conventions(He could have been Hitler's Lawyer at Nuremberg).

What a perverted man he is. He is beneath contempt and that is not a metaphor.
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #104
106. The truth is LIEberman doesn't care.
Nothing he does gives him more pleasure than pissing on Democrats. Just wait for his hearings on the Underpants bomber. He will take every opportunity to piss on Obama. And he doesn't give a flying fuck about the millions he's selling into indentured slavery by stripping out the Public Option. He's so corrupt, everywhere he goes he leaves a trail of slime.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #104
112. I am no fan of Traitor Joe, but he voted for the same "hcr" bill for which the other 59 members
of the Democratic Caucus voted. Yes, he threatened a fillibuster, but he ultimately got in line with the others--and without demanding that the government pick up his state's cost in perpetuity, as did another Democratic Senator.

It's getting harder and harder to tell the so called good corporatists from the bad corporatists.
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tabbycat31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #112
143. he's one of the reasons for no public option
or no Medicare buyin at 55
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #143
146. he'll have an uphill battle in CT & could well lose if a well known progressive Dem takes him on
Blumenthal is running for Dodd's seat and should win it handily.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. May He reap all the karma he has earned. Is his re-election this fall?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Unfortunately not - he's up in 2012, Dodd was this year
Dodd might have survived if he were the one up in 2012. Lieberman, with those numbers, would be out.

But, it could have been worse for us. It is clear - even before these numbers - that Democrats like him less than in 2006 when an unknown Lamont defeated him. He might have switched already and voted "no" on the healthcare bill and everything else.
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indypaul Donating Member (896 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. He is however
the consummate politician as defined by Teddy Roosevelt.
When he is bought he stays bought.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well deserved
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. So when will we see the last of this traitor?
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Not soon enough
I'm afraid.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. He Doesn't Care And We're Stuck With The Douchebag For 2 More Years
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 12:06 PM by Beetwasher
So my reaction to this poll is, ok, so now what?
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bc3000 Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
38. Why should he care? He's getting paid. That's what he's there for.
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taurus145 Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. Why is everyone insulting douchebags?
They serve a useful purpose.
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iris27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #41
105. Um, no they don't. They have been medically shown to irritate and can actually
cause infection by clearing out good native flora...all under the guise of achieving "freshness" or WTFever.

http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/short/24/2/109

Fair game for an insult in my opinion..."irritating and unnecessary to women (or anyone else)".
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taurus145 Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #105
107. J O K E
I would explain, but you're obviously too literal-minded to get it.
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iris27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #107
125. Ack! Poe's Law gets me again!
Sorry...after seeing people make similar statements here and NOT be joking, I really do need the sarcasm smiley to tell the jokers from the freaks. :)
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Lemme break out my violin
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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
61. May I join you?
:nopity:
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pjt7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. Strip this clown of his Chairmanship of the Homeland Commitee
Blame the Christmans Bomb Attempt on him.
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peaches2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
153. Now he will be running the Homeland Sec hearings
and he will use it to screw Obama one more time! He wasn't stripped of the chairmanship because they needed his HCR bill vote. They can't strip him before the final vote and that will be after the hearings start. He has been twisting Obama and Harry Reid all year and now he will have the limelight he craves to stick his knife in the Dems AGAIN. Should have kicked him out 2 yrs ago when he backed and campaigned with McCain. You reap what you sow.
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h9socialist Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Lieberman should . . .
!. . . follow Chris Dodd's example! It'll be easy! He no longer has any base of support!
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SomeGuyInEagan Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Lieberman is only as powerful as the WH and Dem leaders allow ...
... which appears to be plenty. I hate the guy, but nobody in power is doing anything to hurt or curb him, because I suspect he is doing exactly what they really want.

By 2012, he will have the money in place, the lobbists suckling and the Dem leaders cowering to his every whim for re-election.

But I can still hope we have some real progressives in office and prepping to run by then, including the WH.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
64. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
shadesofgray Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
82. +1
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
93. Yes, they allow him to have power along with all of his fellow Republicans
Just a quick note addressing the nonsense you posted - Lieberman is NOT a Democrat!!!!!!!

As if Senators can just be controlled through sheer will anyway - what a joke!
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SomeGuyInEagan Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #93
98. I never wrote that Lieberman is a Dem
I only wrote that he has as much power as he is allowed to have by the party in power.

They sure as hell have ways to neuter him ... stripping him of committee spots, the President calling him out publicly and stating that unless Lieberman is on board that he will actively campaign for any opponent in 2012. That he still has the power he does have leads one to think that nobody in power is playing the game to win. Politics is bloody and Lieberman hasn't even suffered a scrape in all of this.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. & you are sure that he would respond positively to threats?
...or would the vengeful little hypocrite have killed healthcare for another 20 years?

How can you be so sure that threats would have done anything other than make him act even more childishly?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #99
114. I can be sure bc, when it wanted to, the leadership made Joe change his position. Specter, too
But, it does not have to be only threats. You can promise him goodies if he behaves, as well as threatening to take away the goodies that he has if he does not get in line.

What do think majority leaders and whips do? Have you never heard that people in Congress wheel and deal with each other and with the President?

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #93
113.  Republicans did not campaign for Joe or abandon Lamont. Or promise not to campaign agin Joe
in his next election battle.

And no, you don't control Senators by sheer will. You control them by taking away their plum committee assignments and chairmanships, telling them you won't support them in the next election, that they will not get votes for money for their state's next big financial need, etc. And you also use carrots. But only if they are not already doing pretty much what you want them to do.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
118. Well Rahm and the boys love him
He is a good boy for the corporations and a devout admirer of the Chimpanzee

My eyes, have LOVE for you. (below)



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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #118
132. Yep
Edited on Fri Jan-08-10 11:34 AM by laughingliberal
The Medicare expansion was an idea Lieberman supported for years. He was interviewed in September and brought it up as something he favored. He is an asshole but his flip flop on this was all about the White House. Probably part of the price Joe was expected to pay for Obama saving his chairmanship for him. I don' t know why that's not obvious. Russ Feingold told us right when this happened it was not about Lieberman, that this was the bill the President wanted all along. Lieberman was a good soldier and took one for the team.

That said, it would be nice to replace him with someone who would have stood up to the administration on it but no chance til 2012.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #132
141. Yes there were some unwritten understandings
When the present occupant, knighted this scum bucket with a continued chairmanship. Its also clear that Joementum is being controlled by someone. However, if he pisses too far from the toilet, and on the floor too loudly, he will become a pariah.

I just wonder who gives him his marching orders. Its also clear he's allowed to freelance every now and then.

I've watched this creep for a decade and a half and he never fails to amuse or annoy.
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WatchWhatISay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. You have to wonder who
the 10% who support the health care bill, and yet approve of Lieberman's handling of it, are.

Do they have recall in Connecticut?
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Lurks Often Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. No recall in CT
There is no recall in CT.

And the reason Lieberman won in 2006 was due to two basic reasons:
1. The Republicans ran a nobody because they didn't think Lieberman would lose the primary and when he did lose the primary, Republicans and independents voted for Lieberman wholesale, supposedly the exit polls showed Lieberman getting the vote of 33% of democrats, 54% of independents and 70% of Republicans. (Per the CNN exit poll).
2. Lamont was considered too liberal and too anti-war.


Lieberman received 49.7% of the vote
Lamont received 39.7% of the vote
Schiesslenger received 9.6% of the vote



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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
49. There is no recall anywhere for any Federal office. (nt)
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #49
116. Welcome. Yep, the COTUS governs federal elective offices, not state law.
Edited on Fri Jan-08-10 07:14 AM by No Elephants
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WatchWhatISay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
108. Thanks for posting that
You should come out from lurking more often!
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
115. Welcome. Republicans did not back their own nominee bc Lieberman was more useful
Edited on Fri Jan-08-10 07:10 AM by No Elephants
to Dummya than the Republican would have been. And high profile Democrats campaigned hard for Traitor Joe and against Lamont in the primary, damaging Lamont. So, in effect, both parties cleared the field for a Lieberman win. That is my view.
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Hulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. But will they remember come election time?
We have to remember...being a nation of simple morons.....given five or six thirty second sound bites blowing praise of the traitorous old prick, he may very well be re-elected again.

It's sad how gullible and ignorant this country really is when it comes to politics. I know. I was there. There was a time when I didn't want to discuss politics or religion. I have four kids who probably care more about keeping their jobs, supporting their families, and trying to keep up with the Jone's. We are a nation of morons. Make it hard on the growing young families....keep their noses in the dirt or to the grind stone...and meanwhile, we keep electing worthless flea bags like holy joe.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. He is not going to run for re election

I have also read that the Liebermans have become social non grata and are no longer seen at any of their traditional social spots with the single exception of their temple.

He knows that he is a pariah and is either going to become a well paid lobbyist or a well paid professor in Israel. He will get smashed in any election, if for no other reason is that he no longer has any Republican support and they are going to run somebody serious against him.
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mrbarber Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
74. Feel free to stop projecting your own failures on the rest of us.
Thanks.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm going to make a prediction here...
if he hangs on long enough to run for re-election, he will be trounced, regardless of what party banner he decides to run under. One of the biggest strengths he had, was being essentially unknown nationwide until selected by Gore to be his running mate.

While this prediction is not hard to make by any criteria, his HCR busting pal, Ben Nelson (D? NE)will get stomped on as well, although Nelson might do better # wise.Nelson is one of my Senators, and I fully admit I wonder about the effort I put in to get him re-elected. The one saving grace is that the R was such a loser, Hitler would have been better if he ran as an R.

These two, have no comprehension how the electorate feel about HCR and how the D voters will react to how they have been embarrassments for their respective states. It would be one thing if either, or both of these men actually had the benefit of the nation and respective states in their views...but both of them came off as irresponsible fools, that were only in Congress for personal gain...voters don't forget things like that, at least D voters don't.

R's have their problem children as well...but R's have no scruples since they became neo-cons...they will pay at the polls as well, but no where near as Lieberman and Nelson will pay. Lieberman will most likely bow out of the next election...Nelson told us this would be his last play for the Senate...it would be in the interest of the nation if they both slid away, unnoticed. I think they will stick it out and try to make a play for re-election...it will be an embarrassment for both of them...I don't think Nelson would survive a Primary challenge, and Lieberman is washed up in Connecticut.
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BP2 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Good prediction, but never underestimate the power of

a well-financed campaign of lies.

LIEberman is being paid off by Big Insurance for his opposition.

No doubt when he runs again, Big Insurance will be giving big bucks to his campaign.

It'll fall on us to us to remind his constituents of his betrayal :applause:

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Lurks Often Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Many of his constituents work for the insurance companies
Given all of the insurance companies that either have their headquarters or major offices in CT, a lot of his constituents work for the insurance companies.

Here is a partial, but no means inclusive list of insurance companies that have a significant presence in CT: Aetna, Cigna, Healthnet, The Hartford, Amica, AIG, Met Life and Connecticare.

There are thousands of jobs in CT related to insurance, probably tens of thousands of jobs.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I get a very strange feeling about Lieberman...
something tells me he's going to get very ill, or perhaps die before his re-election bid. Just something odd, can't really put my finger on it. I'm a skeptic when it comes to foretelling the future through "prophecy"...but this feeling I have is very strong...:shrug:
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. He quits
I suspect he is planning on quitting in 2012. I think he is laying the ground work for the future here. He probably knows he'll get strong challengers from both sides and so is going to just work himself into a good position to retire.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. did they measure his approval among insurance companies?
that's his real constituency. Make them happy and they're going to make him and his wife very wealthy in their retirement.
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innovative1993 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Union Labor
With union Labor so frustrated at the unpopular taxing of our so called cadillac health plans, a No vote from Leiberman would absolutely secure some of us union voters. He can single handedly sink this crappy legislation and make them remember where there were going to get the money from. The 250K club and up. NOT US. Leave the hard working middle class blue collar workers alone. I am so tired of this crap.

A no vote from Leib... helps him, a Yes votes sends him down the river.

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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. Yeah, but will they still love him when he looks like a lame duck?
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 03:18 PM by nxylas
If his approval ratings go into freefall, they may find a new horse to back.
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M155Y_A1CH Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. OMG, I thought you meant this,whew :slaps head:


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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
117. Chicken Hawks stay far from those.
Lieberman "served" like Cheney served--deferment city.
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M155Y_A1CH Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #117
155. It's An Israeli Tank...wink, wink n/t
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. Proudly He Doesn't Give A Shit
what anybody thinks of him, especially Democrats.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Yep. He's too self-rigtheous to consider anyone's feeling but his own. nt
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Yep. He's too self-rigtheous to consider anyone's feeling but his own.
Typical Fundie...just a Jewish one. Michell Bachman with jowls and a yamaka. (and a circumcised penis, I suppose)
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. What a beautiful thread title
:)
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radhika Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. He's Laughing all the way to the bank!
I don't think he and Hadassah give a rat's a*s on their popularity with mere people. If he gets booted in 2012, fine. He's old already and they might enjoy retiring. They live and die for the approval and support of 'special interests', major corporations and the State of Israel.
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diamidue Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
92. Truly.
I've always felt he was getting paid well to be the "bad guy" and stop any legislation that Democratic leaders and their elite controllers didn't really want passed (despite what lip service the Democrats pay to their constituents).
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tosh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. This is what is should be.
Buh-bye, Joe.
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. His sneaky fake Democrat supporters claim he is a profile in courage
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. Connecticut voters: WE WARNED YOU!
Now, many of you CT DUers faithfully supported Ned Lamont, and we apprecite that greatly. This message is really directed at those who voted in 2006 for someone who put his own interests over those of his constituents - someone who not only received logistic support from Karl Rove, but also someone for whom the Republican Party was willing to throw their own candidate under the bus in order to get this guy elected.

You got sold a bill of goods, and now the bill has come due.

But you can start repaying your debt by making sure Dodd's Senate seat stays blue in November.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
45. +1
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. he's earned it.
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
33. k/r
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
36. Traitor Joe
:cry: :nopity: :nopity:
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
37. I'm sure he cares. n/t
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. LIEberman is done...
put a fork in him already.
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
42. Change is coming to Connecticut...
With Dodd retiring and Lieberman's approval sagging, it'll be really interesting to see who replaces those two. Definitely not a DINO clone of Liarman.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. 2012 can't come soon enough
When I think of how different things could have been if Lamont won, it makes me sick.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
46. Lieberman/Palin 2012

(making wish on a star...)
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
47. I'd bet my dollar I have to my name that he got paid nicely, so he could care LESS!
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
48. We should start sending polite emails to him saying that it is time for him to retire.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
50. How could the All-Powerful/Omnipotent Lieberman be "tanking" . . . ?? tsk tsk ...
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 05:15 PM by defendandprotect
Come'on -- Lieberman runs the entire Democratic Party -- and Obama . . .

This couldn't be true --


:evilgrin:
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howmad1 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
86. Is this a great country or what?
A black man and a Jew in the whitehouse.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
51. Tanks for the memories, Joe. n/t
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
52. I wish a tank would flatten him.
Lieberpancake.
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Rozlee Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
53. I'm not a political scientist, so somebody needs to explain this to me
First, LIEberman said that his committees weren't weren't worth losing over the healthcare vote. So, why the hell didn't someone think to threaten him with losing his chairmanship of those damn committees? Second, they had the votes to take it to a budget reconciliation, but they didn't. But, my actual question that I'm confused over is Joe Biden's part in all this. I know that a vice president can break some ties, but couldn't he have overrode Lieberman and made a 60th vote without him? How does that work?
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. 59 to 41 isn't a tie.
Biden would only become involved if a vote is 50-50, and cloture votes need a 60% supermajority
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groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #53
73. Well, here's part of the story on that
Second, they had the votes to take it to a budget reconciliation, but they didn't.

The way I heard it explained was that only budget related items can go to reconciliation where they only need 50 votes (+ VP Biden). There are many items in the total bill which are not budget items, so the entire bill can't go to reconciliation. However, later on something like a medicare expansion COULD be elegible for budget reconciliation, but so far nobody has talked about that yet. I suspect ( and pray) that it's a remote possibility this is one reason why it's so important to get this current bill (with it's many shortcomings) pushed through - hence why everyone is tolerating Traiter Joe for the time being.

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #73
119. Yep. They could have taken single payer to reconciliation and worried about the non-economic
parts later, or maybe even left those to the regulatory process once single payer was in place.

But, let's overlook that and pretend it was all Joe's fault, even though he voted for the same bill approved by the other 59 members of the Democratic Caucus.

If Republicans had 60 Caucus members, does anyone doubt they would have used reconciliation or any other means necessary to get what they wanted?

P.S. IMO, if Republicans really did not want this bill passed, the opposition within the halls of Congress would have been as strong as their opposition in the media was.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #119
134. Isn't it amazing that * could get his pharma stink bill passed
even though some repugs were against it (those who had morals and any compassion for the elderly)--he did it by threats and coercion. So, I'm calling BS on attempting to get a strong PO--I think that any thing more geared for corporate payola gets the nod over anything that may actually be good for the general public.

I believe Lieberman was the "bad cop" who played his part to help pass a stingy, corporate windfall bill. And, he's not only helping Obama-but I believe the repukes must act like they're against this bill, but this is a repuke corporate wet dream. After *'s pharma bill, the repukes should be salivating over another corporate giveaway. This bill will be more like Romney care, who is a repuke-nuf' said.
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #73
127. There's another issue with reconciliation
Bills passed using reconciliation must have sunset clauses. I don't remember off the top of my head for how long - I think it's 8 years.

As such, it's far from ideal to use for heath care reform, since it would automatically be repealed. That's why the R's kept getting in a tizzy over "Making the Bush Tax Cuts Permanent" - they used reconciliation to pass them.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
54. AWESOME.
:popcorn:

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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
55. Like most clowns who try to play to both sides..
Thinking that they will emerge with the support of both sides, the almost always wind up with friends on neither side.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #55
120. If you go by the health insurance bill, I'm wondering exactly which Senators did not try to play.
Edited on Fri Jan-08-10 07:45 AM by No Elephants
both sides.

Republican Senators put up a much bigger fight in the media than they did on the floor of the Senate.

Senators like Feingold and Sanders opposed the contents of the bill until a day or two before they voted for it.

The Blue Dogs and DLC/New Democrats extracted every drop they could for the insurers and big health care providers while getting praised by Reid, Obama and their fellow Democratic Senators for doggedly working for "reform."

Everyone sure talks a good game, though.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
56. :) happy happy joy joy
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
57. Do we think he really cares? He will just be bought by the BIG boys to be a lobbyist soon.
Sad man - And he could have been our VP! Sad!
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. AIPAC ...no doubt.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
59. Now THAT is the best way to send a message
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 05:52 PM by mvd
Too bad he is likely too bought out by the insurance companies to have a change of heart during these House/Senate negotiations.
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
60. I can say with confidence he stands no chance of being re-elected in 2012. nt
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #60
147. I tend to agree but this depends on who's running against him
I don't see anyone of Blumenthal's stature to run against Lie-man. Even Lamont doesn't want to do it, b/c he's exploring running for gov
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Independent_Voice Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
62. So which Dem will challenge Holy Joe in 2012?
Or, if he retires voluntarily, who will run for Lieberman's Senate seat regardless?

My money's on Connecticut state treasurer Denise Nappier:

http://www.msmagazine.com/spring2005/denisenappier.asp
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. The guy has such an ego
this has gone right over his head.

He'll retire and make a mint as a lobbyist for the health insurance corporations who are his benefactors. What else is new?
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
65. Stuck in the middle with you...
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
66. Oh, boy. We can pick up a seat in Connecticut in 2012
!!
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #66
121. First, we have to make sure we keep Dodd's seat in 2010.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
68. i don't think being recognized for what he is will slow him down any...
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
69. Lieberman is simply counting on people 3 years from now....FORGETTING......
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 07:18 PM by GreenTea
And that other issues will arise in the next three years and Lieberman will vote more progressively and change people's minds.....Lieberman has lots of insurance money & he'll get more and we know money buys most elections.

You know many people many three years from now will decide to vote for Lieberman and Lieberman knows this and again, is counting on it (along with his overwhelming war-chest of corporate money.

The same as many people did when Lieberman ran as an Independent, after being defeated by the democrats (remember the republican helped fund & endorsed Lieberman over their own republican candidate....

So what did the stupid Dems expect from Lieberman, and the same Dems giving Lieberman a Chairmanship on top of it!
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Devil_Fish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
70. he knew this was his last term any way. he has a back up plan. NT
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
71. Prediction: He will quit and become a lobbyist.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #71
122. Don't you mean "He will quit the Senate and continue to be a lobbyist?"
Then again, the same could be said for a lot of Congress critters.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #122
137. You are right. My bad.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
72. he's just marking time until his insurance-industry- lobbyist career starts in a couple years.
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 07:47 PM by dysfunctional press
he was a much bigger part of gore's loss stolen victory in 2000 than nader ever was.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
75. Down ya go!
Ta-Ta Joe! :rofl:
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
76. That's a lot better than I expected his numbers were...
He sold his soul to Karl Rove the last time he campaigned. He's not fooling anyone but himself.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
77. I bet after he gets the boot, he becomes a lobbyist for the insurance industry. n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #77
123. What do you mean "after?"
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #123
130. I stand corrected. ;)
:toast:
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
78. He's been trying to play both sides for his entire career
Remember the Thomas vote?

It would be totally grand if he finally got his comeuppance.
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Ildem09 Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
79. oooh noes joe!
Karma is a pain lol
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
80. Send him to Israel, since that's the state he only truly cares about
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
81. He's very lucky there's no recall for Federal Officials
because he'd be in one right about now.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
83. I think he's done for '12
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 08:50 PM by fujiyama
He's kinda burned himself with both parties at this point. After all, he's still technically caucusing as a Dem and is still voting for the final bill which doesn't please republicans, but he's screwed over Dems so many times now I've lost count. Plus, with the teabaggers' increasing influence within the GOP we'll likely see even more crazies get elected in primaries. Lieberman may be a RW Dem but he's a moderate by GOP standards.

There's little left for him. I think the smart thing for him would be to quit and become a lobbyist. The revolving door will still be spinning and I'm sure his wife could easily help in that regard.

I can't wait for him to leave. But he's an arrogant and very resilient turd, so who knows. We can only hope that CT voters will be smarter next time around.

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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
84. Well, no liberal in CT is surprised. Rethugs don't really trust him, Dems can't stand him.
Indies think he is a lying tool.
Come 2012, CT will have two new Senators.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
85. Joe the Plumber is more popular
because he can at least fix a tank.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. And sadly more useful.
:rofl:
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Suji to Seoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
88. He's part of our caucus why?
With Landreiu, Lincoln, Nelson and Baucus, we already do not have the magic "60."
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
89. Screw the whiny little weasel. Maybe an insurance co. building will tip over on him.
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 09:53 PM by TheCowsCameHome
I heard he's been out ass-kissing with McCain recently.

The guy is a rotten little puke.

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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
90. Take that Benedict Arnold!
Nobody likes a traitor.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
91. HAH! Where is my itty bitty violin....?
:nopity:
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
94. I hope he tanks more. n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
95. Someone made a point during the
lieberman betrayal on Health Care when there was an article on netanyahu wanting President Obama to fail on Health Care so he would not be as popular..that perhaps that's why lieberman was such an obvious asshole.

That lieberman answers to Israel's wishes above his own country. Made sense to me.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
96. They need to follow it up with a no confidence vote. kr nt
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
97. Will Lieberman do the honorable thing and resign?
:shrug:
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
100. I just gotta say it - Fuck Joe!
fucking scumbag thinks him and that Nelson asshole are the only 2 people on the planet that matter when it comes to health care. if he dropped dead today i could care less. fuck joe. :mad: oh and fuck the Dems too for not kicking him out - they better after the elections in 2010! just curious - do the dems even have principles anymore - for that matter do they even know what it means - fuck it i bet they can't even spell it. :evilgrin:
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orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
101. Finally, an expected loss to come no matter how many...
candidates run against him.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
102. Is There No Way In Hell to Get Him Out Before 2012?
Jeez. Can't he pull a Tiger?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #102
124. Does "pull a Tiger" mean the same as "pull a Palin?"
Edited on Fri Jan-08-10 07:59 AM by No Elephants
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #102
148. Not unless he's indicted & jailed - his term is 6 yrs., unfortunately
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
109. I will support his opponent.
For certain.
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BEZERKO Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
110. Expletive deleted!
I tried to say something nice about him, that's the best I can manage.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
111. I'm sensing Joe may soon feel a need to spend more time with Andrew Card's children.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
126. So he's finally suceeded in pissing off EVERYONE.
I knew it was only a matter of time before he painted himself into a corner. I guess he's ready to move to Israel and run for office there.

:blush: I am soooooo bad. :spank:
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mckara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
128. Lieberman Sux!
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
129. Sadly as a CT resident we will loose Dodd and keep LIEberman.
How fucked is that?
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #129
145. wow, you've got a crystal ball? with poll nos. like these, Traitor Joe might not even run
We will get Blumenthal to replace Dodd (a good replacement) and Lie-man's seat is up for grabs.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
131. No one likes that snake bastard...nt
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
133. The news brightens my day
n/t
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
135. Tanks for nuttin' Joe
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. I think Ned Lamont was a good Democratic choice
I'm hoping he has the backing to run again. We need more Lamont's in Congress right now.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #136
144. he is exploring a run for gov---I prefer Sec. of State Susan Bysiewicz
she's very hard working, has been SOS for a long time and has done great things. I like Lamont but do not see anything he's done for the state except run against Lie-man, which was a very good run. Still, he was only able to run b/c he's wealthy ----I'd rather have a gov. that knows the state well and has a progressive record.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
138. Now there's Joementum for you!
:P
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
139. beloved by DC, reviled as the moral filth he is everywhere else.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
140. `
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
142. cry me a river, Lie-man---you used to be good, but you're washed up now
:nopity:
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mstinamotorcity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
149. maybe they will
show their disapproval in the next voting cycle and elect a true to the game democratic candidate,
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
150. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
151. MSM won't let us remember it but the whole "uprising" thing started with the Ct Dem primary
Lieberman lost after having been on the national ticket and had to run as an independent.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
152. It's disconcerting knowing we have elected officials in office like Lieberman
How do these degenerates land these positions - there must be more stupid people out there then any with a higher level of intelligence.
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2QT2BSTR8 Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
154. I have only one thing to say about LIEberman.
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
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