Jobs Fall 85,000; Unemployment Rate 10 Percent (December)

[denem]

Source: AP

The economy lost more jobs than expected in December while the unemployment rate held steady at 10 percent, as a sluggish economic recovery has yet to revive hiring among the nation's employers.

The Labor Department said Friday that employers cut 85,000 jobs last month, worse than the 8,000 drop analysts expected. Employment fell in construction, manufacturing, and wholesale trade, while temporary help services and health care added jobs.

A sharp drop in the labor force, a sign more of the jobless are giving up on their search for work, kept the unemployment rate at the same rate as in November. Once people stop looking for jobs, they are no longer counted among the unemployed.

When discouraged workers and part-time workers who would prefer full-time jobs are included, the so-called "underemployment" rate in December rose to 17.3 percent, from 17.2 percent in October. That's just below a revised figure of 17.4 percent in October, the highest on records dating from 1994.

Read more: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122355041

---

Not good.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

2. At least there will be a few DUers who will shut up for a bit.

[HughBeaumont]

3. Cash hoarding and no hiring != recovery.

Yet another log on the bonfire that is unbridled disaster corporatism.

American "fiscal conservatives" need to OWN up that this system is bullshit and of THEIR doing and need to GROW up FAST and get over themselves.

All of these employers laying people off is only going to lead to more employers laying more people off.

If you don't have jobs, you don't have a recovery, especially in a consumer economy. It really IS that simple.

You cannot strengthen the weak by strengthening the strong even FURTHER than they already are.

[fasttense]

4. Add to this the following facts and you wonder if those green shoots have been trampled.

No jobs created in the last 10 years.

"But for some reason, the “experts” keep ignoring the ongoing surge in emergency employment claims, which climbed above 5 million to a new record. In fact, despite all the attention being paid to the headline data, the real story is that the ranks of the long-term unemployed keep going up."

[HughBeaumont]

5. This is just massively discouraging.

Either the private sector or the government needs to bite some bitter pills and FAST.

We need to get over this Empirical pipe dream and fix the house. This old dilapidated mansion is fast-a-crumblin' and needs a structural rebuild and I mean it needs it NOW.

Not yesterday. NOW.

Corporate America is sabotaging this nation's progress. If this keeps up, the voters will continue to sabotage it by sticking a laissez-fail Corpublican in 2012 to ruin things even worse than they are now.

[wisteria]

14. Corporate America doing this purposely? Sabotaging Dem's?

I don't know. They want to make money too. If they don't have the business, they have no reason to hire.

[HughBeaumont]

21. Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

With no firing freeze in sight, consumers won't spend or purchase services.

News flash. Unemployed, foreclosed, homeless and destitute people . . . can't and don't buy stuff.

Underemployed people . . . don't buy stuff.

People scared of losing their jobs . . . don't buy stuff.

People uncertain of their job and company status . . . don't buy stuff.

Why are they not buying stuff?

Simple. Thousand-plus layoff notices are happening DAILY, not just weekly. Layoffs only lead to more layoffs, which leads to no one (not even employed and scared people) buying stuff, which leads to more layoffs, etc.

Sooner or later, corporations are going to need this little thing we in the reality-based community call "BUSINESS".

AAaaaand, they can't GET business if no one's BUYING stuff, because they can barely afford the cost of living and are scared of getting fired. Or, worse yet, they're already fired and can't afford to buy anything; multiply this by 14-16 million.

So what needs to happen first?

[Rapanui1]

31. Why would a corporation pay you a livable wage

Why would a corporation pay you a livable wage when they can hire for dimes in India or China? Clinton pushed NAFTA and Bush fed the NAFTA demon with the blood of Americans. The only export we now have are jobs. For every good paying job that we outsource we create two minimum wage jobs. Obama promised to review NAFTA but thus far nothing has been done. Is this a Bush depression or a transfer from first world country to a third world country?
At least some of you are LUCKY to have a livable unemployment. Here in the McBushland the unemployment is 200/wk you can't even live in a cheap apartment for that price

[superconnected]

32. First, the buisinesses need to quit outsourcing labor and trying to sell the goods here.

Without the money from making those goods, we can't afford to buy them. If the gov isn't willing to change their policy and start putting very high tariffs on goods not made here and laws against operating in the US with high percentages of foreign labor, this economy will not get better.

In America, it used to be, in the 80's, that when people were laid off, their jobs had to go away, literally. Now, they can be taken up by any h1-visa. In Europe and as example Germany - since my current work's corp is based there, it's illegal for the Companies in Germany to lay off anyone without going through their court system and proving that the jobs actually went away and that includes they couldn't transfer the jobs to another country - they have to give them to the Germans first. There is also far better regulation on using foreign labor and very big tariffs. If companies are not going to use that countries labor yet sell back to them, those goods are taxed heavily.

America is the biggest buyer of anything. Adding big tariffs on products that our labor wasn't paid to produce will help fix this problem. The WTO is evil because it existence is to make the deals of governments and corporations going around those tariffs and labor laws to use foreigners, outsource, pay low tariffs. That's ruined countries all over south America with it's policies and now we're seeing the effects of it here.

Companies either produce here or pay high tariffs so we can afford to keep our people on unemployment, to buy those foreign goods or we can't recover any better than any other country - none have - that let's those things happen. There's no other way to recover. Only changing policy will fix us. Starting more businesses that eventually outsource and sell back to us will not help us - all of the businesses of the 90s high tech industry did that. We are a product of WTO raping.

[OhioChick]

41. Agreed. n/t

[tonysam]

47. And telling the unemployed to start their own businesses doesn't work, either,

if nobody is buying anything.

[HughBeaumont]

51. Oh, I ALWAYS love the "Everyone Become the Owner" solution.

You know, because we ALL have tons of start-up capital, a product to sell, an audience for that product, money to pay for medical care, repeat business and an insane amount of luck which will drive us to be the 1 out of 10 small businesses that DOESN'T fail. We can sure pay the bills on THAT crapshoot.

Ask several DUers who own businesses how easy it is. Republican Libertarians of course think it's easy, so it MUST be so. That's because many of them aren't DOING it.

[Dr.Phool]

53. I did that 2 years ago.

I bought a carryout Italian Restaurant. Had good product, fast delivery, and huge lunch deliveries. One big customer was Capitol One. Then they shipped everything except their auto finance to India.

Other businesses in the area started cutting, except the pawn shop next door. Then all of our residential customers started losing jobs. The ones still working, who still had twenty dollars left at the end of the week for a pizza, were now paying $4.00 a gallon for gas.

Then food started going through the roof. A 50# bag of flower jumped almost 500% in 2 months. Cheese? Forget about it.

I got out after 6 months. My partner lasted another 5 months before he sold.

And neither of us took home a paycheck the entire time. Had to make sure the employees got paid.

[CatholicEdHead]

55. Exactly

I have been mulling an idea for an startup and have been sending up trial balloons, but I need at least one or two clients to officially launch on an small scale. So far no luck, as my product is an intangible product which can often be tough to monetize with the internet right now. Startups are even tougher than usual nowadays.

[freddie mertz]

6. Most distressing. You can see it where I live.

Very few jobs out there, and many many applicants for the few there are.

A bad sign for the New Year.

[XemaSab]

16. I talked to two of the recruiters for the census yesterday

and both of them said that they're having trouble getting people to apply in part because the unemployment rate is SO HIGH in some areas that people are apathetic about working, and also because so many people are on unemployment and don't want to mess up their claims.

The official unemployment rate for the North State is around 15%, but some parts of the hinterlands are pushing 60% or 70%. :o

[Berry Cool]

17. I can understand people not wanting to mess up their unemployment claims.

I feel the same. I really cannot afford to take a new job unless it pays me more than unemployment does. I'm not going to take something that pays me less unless my unemployment runs out and I really have no choice. Otherwise, if I take a temp job that ends before my unemployment does, I might no longer be eligible at all. Or I might be eligible, but for lower payments than under my most recent job. Dumb.

[freddie mertz]

22. So many jobs offer atrocious shit pay and no benefits.

We really need a kind of Marshall Plan for our own industrial base.

[jmowreader]

25. You forgot the best one

"Flexible scheduling."

When you have a job with "flexible schedules," which usually means retail, you can't go out and get a second job because the second boss isn't going to accept having to schedule you around your first job.

[Love Bug]

29. So true, Berry

I know someone who is also unemployed (as am I) who took one of those census jobs that was supposed to last for several months. However, he was laid off again after 2-3 weeks and it played havoc with reinstating his unemployment benefits. He said he won't take any temp work again until his benefits run out and he has no choice because it's all just too unstable. And we live in Minnesota, too, which has good unemployment benefits and a pretty well-managed system to support us.

[thecrow]

28. I almost applied for a census job

But they are only part time jobs and I doubt they would pay enough to
substitute for my unemployment. It would be fun to be a part of the census, though.

[Dr.Phool]

7. But....but... but Google said.........

And ADP said.....

:crazy: :crazy: :silly:

We're saved!

Thank Gawd it passed!

:wtf:

Never mind.

[Tansy_Gold]

11. It's dangerous out here, Doc. They don't think the way we do.

:hi:

(You stayin' warm enough? Might better getcha couple more pups there, might be a three dog night comin' up. . . .)



TG

[Dr.Phool]

18. That would be tonight.

Pretty nice this morning though.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[krabigirl]

40. This has nothing to do with Obama. This is a result of problems started in the 80s.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlphaCentauri]

9. The rest of the month the stock market shares will go up n/t

[Lucky Luciano]

10. Markets and the USD have reversed their gap down based on

A Morgan Stanley economist whose model suggested the net gain to NFP would have been +200k had it not been for the big snowstorms. At least that is what I am seeing out there to explain the reversal. Note that the FX volatility was higher than the equity volatility in this case and the DXY index (USD vs a basket of six currencies) is almost unched from before the jobs report after gapping down 1%, which is a big yap for the DXY.

[wisteria]

12. These reflect 09- Obama said job recovery would not begin until 2010.

I am optimistic things will change soon. And, I am one of the unemployed.

[Igel]

60. Well, yes and no.

First he said it would start 3rd quarter '09.

Then, when that didn't happen, he went with the more pessimistic economists that said (and had been saying) 2010.

There are, of course, even more pessimistic economists, sort of a fall-back to the fall-back.

[wisteria]

13. Construction and some manufacturing are to be expected in the winter time. n/t

[xchrom]

15. Recommend

[optimator]

19. how do they know when someone stops looking?

just because one stops getting unemployment checks doesn't mean they quit looking.
so how do they know?

[Romulox]

20. Let's do the FRIDAY NEWS DUMP again! nt

[Lucky Luciano]

23. Unemployment is ALWAYS the first Friday of the month.

They are not trying to "sneak" this in just before the weekend so fewer people see it. Believe me - everyone saw it and was anxiously awaiting the numbers.

[Romulox]

24. Hey pal! Have any *insightful* posts deleted recently?

:hi:

[Lucky Luciano]

26. I see you are quite sensitive. Those deleted posts were not incendiary at all.

I stand by everything I said. Not one curse word In my post and it gets deleted.

Overall, relating to our spat, GM did better than expectations and going forward things are looking better than before - just like for ford and nissan - correlation buddy! All about expectations. MTLQQ is up 60% in the last few days, though I grant that as a bankrupt entity trading as a penny stock it does not mean much other than to say that all news since earlier this week has been good for GM and good for autos as well - Relative to expectations - a point I did not make clearly enough since I generally assume that it is implicit, but I guess it is not implicit to all audiences.

I posted a nice read from CreditSights on that thread were I met you. Take a look - worth reading. Search the word CreditSights.

[defendandprotect]

63. Why shouldn't capitalism being doing better with trillions we've given them . . .???!!!!

Where are things "looking better" for the American public?

We still have a system of capitalism shifting our wealth and natural resources

to the few --

Our communications control -- to the few --

Our health care system -- to the corporate/fascists --

The Bush wars have now been the Dem wars for three years --

and they are still bankrupting our Treasury ---

Not to mention they are immoral/illegal wars --

[Imagevision]

70. Unemployment Rate is 12.3% in Ca. - what's it in your state?

[Yavin4]

27. The Inevitable End Result of Corporatism Is Massive Job Losses

For the past 30 years and continuing, our federal government through both Dem and Repub leaders have allowed corporatism, the practice of using the powers of the federal government to help the rich and the powerful and deny assistance to individuals, to run wild.

We've seen the finance and telecom sectors allowed to merged into anti-trust entities. We've deregulated industries. We allowed goods made in cheap labor markets free access to our country. We allow cheap labor from abroad to come here and take jobs. We've given massive tax cuts to the rich, and now we're about to give massive subsidies to the insurance companies.

Meanwhile, we've reformed welfare. Kept the minimum wage well behind the cost of living, and we make it difficult, if not impossible, for employees to form labor unions.

The end result was inevitable, a stagnant, no-growth economy. Sure, for a while, we made up for the lost jobs and the power imbalance by extending credit. We let billions be borrowed to over pay for housing, but that was bound to implode, which it has.

If you concentrate wealth and power into a few hands, then the economy is not going to grow, and we're now seeing the massive job losses that result.

[Rapanui1]

35. The Inevitable End Result of Corrupt politics is corporatism

The Inevitable End Result of Corrupt politics is corporatism

[Yavin4]

43. It's Inaccurate To Call It Corrupt Politics

Technically, it's not. It's a belief system. Corruption is paying someone to forgo their ethics and oath of office. These pols don't have to be paid to practice corporatism. They do so willingly.

The mistake you're making is that you believe that if we attack the corruption, we could then eliminate corporatism, which is not the case.

We could pass all kinds of laws regarding campaign financing and lobbying, and we'd still have corporatism.

[defendandprotect]

65. Change the controls and you'd change the "ideology" . . .

It would be naive to think $$ isn't buying corruption of our elected officials!!

[Xenotime]

48. Exactly. The only explanation is corporate greed.

[defendandprotect]

66. Question is, will Americans begin to fight back BEFORE all jobs are gone . . .???

Will they continue to try to use a corporate Democratic Party to fight back . . .

or will they come up with a better answer than continuing to "vote for the lesser evil"?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

30. Fucking AWESOME!

Obama is failing! His policies are tanking! I've never been so happy to be a Democrat in my LIFE!!

:woohoo:

[Rapanui1]

33. Fucking AWESOME!

The only problem is that Obama fails he would still get his corporate severance (for not doing anything) alike Joe doucheberman but rest of us donot have that a fat corporate severance

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

36. Damn Straight!

And isn't it GREAT that on a Democratic Website we can totally trash a Democratic President?

I'm like a fucking pig in slop here....

Because you probably need it...

:sarcasm:

[Lerkfish]

46. Are you employed? cause I'm not. I don't WANT these numbers, but I think its

foolish to pretend we aren't in trouble.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

49. We're In Trouble!!!

But the important thing to remember at DU is that it's all Obama's FAULT. Everything is Obama's fault.

Colt McCoy's shoulder? Did you see Obama blocking for him? Me Neither. It's the job of the President to block the nose tackle on that play. Read your fucking Constitution!

[Lerkfish]

50. show me anywhere I've blamed Obama

oh that's right, you can't. I know the consitution... what is your fucking problem? oh right, you refused to answer if you're employed. BECAUSE YOU ARE. I've been unemployed for a year, and I'm 50 so no one is hiring me.

you have a serious problem.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

54. You're damned right I've got a problem...

I've got a problem with a Democratic Website where the Democratic President is subjected to daily, scurrilous abuse the likes of which one would expect to see on the Fox News Website. I've got a problem with people for whom the glass is perpetually half-full and they want to hear nothing but how horrible it is and how BARACK OBAMA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT ALL. Obama was still serving in the Illinois General Assembly when Congress repealed Glass-Steagall, and he was still there when Bush opened fire on Iraq and started waterboarding anybody who didn't have "Made In The USA" tattooed on his backside.

I've got a problem with people who seem to think that on January 20, 2009, the universe changed and the Constitution no longer applies to how fucking laws get fucking passed in this country. I've got a problem with members of Congress who, when they can't get THEIR version of legislation through Committee, much less up for a vote in their chamber of Congress, go pissing and moaning to the media about how Obama isn't doing enough. I've got a HUGE problem with so-called Democrats who link to stories on the Drudge Report and other rightwing sites.

And I've got a problem with the Administrators of this website, who appear to be pretty content to let this go on day in and day out.

[Lerkfish]

56. you are aiming your abuse at the wrong target

I am not blaming Obama for the bad economy, What I AM doing is pointing out that people, like yourself, find anyone who discusses the bad economy to be "haters" of Obama when we're not even talking about Obama.
its a stupid kneejerk reaction that says more about you than me.

what I am doing, since in my former job I had to analyze govt. statistics a lot, is to point out to the pollyanas that are jumping for joy at false readings of indicators to think the economy is going to rebound.

It isn't and it won't until a mechanism for that rebound is in place, like punishing companies that outsource, like holding banks and insurance companies accountable for their abuses..... etc.

nothing is happening to prevent these abuses, and until it is, I'm simply pointing out, like the child that pointed out that the emperor had no clothes, that unless or until we build mechanisms for economic growth, we are at best slapping on bandages and at worst making the abuses more prevalent. That is an intellectual observation that time and again is met by emotional hyperbole like yours that its an attack on Obama.

[Hawkowl]

57. Obama is responsible

It may not be his fault now, but it is his responsibility to fix it. How much time has to pass before people start to blame Obama? I don't know. I do know his policies are not helping the economy (i.e; employment not the markets) enough.

Obama refuses to adopt a just, coherent economic policy that focuses on the radical restructuring and crackdown on Wall Street criminals. Instead, he offers the criminals a seat at the table in the name of bipartisanship. Bipartisanship is to me, simply a plea bargain with the perps who trashed the economy. The plea bargain with Wall Street and the Military Industrial complex allows them to continue raping and pillaging while throwing the peasants a few bones to gnaw on.

[ProSense]

34. The BLS report shows the economy is moving in the right direction

here.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

37. Remember Bizarro World in the Superman comics?

Kill the Messenger!

:rofl:

[Ikonoklast]

39. One quarter does not make an economy.

Funny thing about recessions, depressions...they do end.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

44. The infomation at the link...

shows gradual improvement throughout the year. The trend is clearly that the worst of the layoffs is probably (probably) over and that employers are now using overtime and temporary workers to pick up the slack. That's usually (usually) a harbinger of a recovery.

[Ikonoklast]

52. Watch shipping/rail/trucking tonnage.

That's the 'tell'.

[Hawkowl]

58. BuLlShit Report................nt

[TheWatcher]

59. I knew you would be along, to Copy/Paste some Propaganda to save us from ourselves.

Thank You ProSpin, we needed that laugh.

You never let us down.

:rofl:

[Hulk]

38. Who does the hiring??? Majority are repukes.....

...and the last thing they want to do is make this administration look good.

Now granted, SOME business owners are Democrats or Independents. But the only ones I know are all stinking, right wing, Obama-hating repukes. Sorry...but that's what I see.

Anything to make this administration fail...even if it f*cks your neighbor in the process.

[Lucky Luciano]

42. Ridiculous. Money trumps politcs for most businessmen.

If it would be profitable for a businessperson to hire someone, they would do it immediately. They will not pass on the candidate just do they and their buddies can make the president (who has helped them) look bad.

[girl gone mad]

61. Yep.

I've yet to meet a right winger who will put politics (or much of anything else, for that matter) ahead of money.

[defendandprotect]

62. And where's Obama's JOB STIMULUS? Seems they're going to run it THRU corporations!!!

Simply more "trickle/down" crap --

More corporate/fascism --

[Politicub]

64. A good friend called me yesterday to let me know he got laid off

His wife works, but they have two kids and a mortgage. I hope he's able to find something, but the pickings are slim here in Atlanta.

[defendandprotect]

67. Just as an aside: Didn't Atlanta go thru decades of building/job creation . . . ?

Was it lost with the trade agreements?

[Politicub]

69. A lot of people are without a job here

There's a new 15 story or so office building that was just built next to mine and it doesn't have a single tenant. I think the building permit process is so long that the process to get these buildings started begun before the massive job losses occurred -- so the building sits empty.

As far as I know, no one here is hiring in the industry that I work in. But a lot of people are on the street looking. If a job opening comes available, there's so much competition to get it that the odds are low that my friend will find anything soon.

[defendandprotect]

71. Just the way the corporates like it . . .

Thanks for the info -- sad as it is!

:)

Happy New Year - we hope!

[Imagevision]

68. MSM failing to report how many states @ 10% - how many over 12% unemployed

Like those many stories 6 months ago about entire families being murdered by the Father because they were losing homes or being forced out into the street were stopped being reported on.

In how many states is employment really at 10% and how many are well over 12% (California) is a majority or should we the public not be bothered to ask?

Sorry but the news I read these days is reported by the same media who sold this country on bombing Iraq for WMD's.

[defendandprotect]

72. Think we've been over 16% for decades . . . Byron Dorgan just said the other day

worst "recession" since the Great Depression ---

If truth be told, I think he would have said "worst depression" since the

Great Depression.

[TwixVoy]

73. This article is not true

Everything is getting better. We WILL BE ADDING JOBS SOON!

SUMMER RECOVERY! SUMMER RECOVERY!