Ballot Issues Attest to Anger in California

[katkat]

Source: New York Times

"the rage that underlies them has not been seen in decades, said lawmakers, pollsters, political consultants and the proponents."

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/us/10calif.html

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Hopefully this is the beginning.

[sakabatou]

1. Recall Arnold.

[RoyGBiv]

2. Beginning of what, though?

I read through the list of those initiatives waiting approval. There are at least as many bad ones as good ones, and a lot of them are meaningless as far as addressing California's actual problems.

The following paragraph from the article states the problem rather succinctly:

"Other states, of course, are also suffering through red ink, but none have quite the same mechanism as California’s to let voters get involved with the process. Despite the fact that past initiatives helped get California into its budget crisis — forcing spending in some areas while limiting taxation in others — the pileup of new ones suggests that many voters still believe they hold the solution to the state’s mess. Few seem to believe that elected officials are up to the job."

And there's more of that in this batch, e.g. eliminating taxes on those over 55, not allowing certain taxes to be used to fund education, the one prohibiting taxing community hospitals to obtain federal funding, etc.

There's the attempt to overturn Prop 8, of course, which is a good thing, but even if it passes, there's nothing to stop a repeal of a repeal of Prop 8 next time around.

Other than that, there's some real whack-job stuff in there, e.g. defining a fertilized egg as a person. I'm sure that one is coming up due to rage also. Rage for the sake of it isn't a good thing

And California's government is just broken.

[tavalon]

3. At least they don't have Tim Eyman

The only good thing I can say about him is if he sponsors a ballot initiative, I don't have to bother to research it. There are bumper stickers here that say Vote No on Tim Eyman and I do.

[katkat]

6. Roy

There's always whack job stuff in the initiatives. But they are often the only recourse voters have against corrupt government. Thank God, California has the initiative process. I wish Rhode Island did, but the corrupt legislature here would never allow it to get on the ballot.

[RoyGBiv]

9. Yes, of course ...

Whack job stuff always shows up, and some of it passes.

I don't have a problem with the initiative. I do have a problem with the way California implements it.

Further, the idea that the initiative process, as it exists in California, is a hedge against corrupt government has little evidence to support it. I mean, we're talking about California. California *has* the initiative. The initiative is *used* by corrupt politicians, interest groups, corporations, etc. to further their goals in ways that could actually be more difficult within a legislative process.

In what way has corruption in California government been lessened by its initiative process? How is California helped by its constant streams of unfunded mandates and contradictory legislation?

[katkat]

12. evidence

Only Prop. 13 saved homeowners from geometrically increasing property taxes every year. Was it perfect? No. But a lot of people kept their homes - the elderly, middle class and blue collar people. All responsible people that the legislature just laughed at when they repeatedly protested soaring taxes. Finally we hit the legislature with a blunt ax.

[RoyGBiv]

15. Okay ...

From the Center for Governmental Studies Democracy by Initiative: Shaping California's Fourth Branch of Government, 2nd Edition, pp. 283-84:

"In 1911, frustrated by the spectacle of wealthy special interests using money to bribe legislators and influence legislation, California citizens enacted a system of direct democracy, allowing them to bypass altogether the legislature and its moneyed interests ...

"Today, some 96 years later, money often dominates the initiative process as much as it does the legislative process. In an ironic twist of fate, what was once a tool of regular citizens to circumvent the influence of money has become a tool of special interests to try to buy favorable policy at the ballot box. ...

"The dominance of money in the ballot initiative process reached new heights in the 2005 special and 2006 general elections. Frustrated by the legislative stalemate with the Democratic legislature, Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger called a special election for November 2005 and then helped qualify and campaign for four of the eight initiatives (Propositions 74, 75, 76 and 77) on the ballot. Combined spending for and against the eight ballot measures amounted to over $300 million. ...

"A year later, with 8 initiatives on the ballot, the 2006 general election became the most expensive in state history. Spending for and against measures on that ballot exceeded $330 million. Two initiatives in particular, Propositions 86 and 87, dominated the election. Proposition 86 would have raised roughly $2.1 billion per year through taxes on cigarettes to pay for medical services and programs. Proposition 87 would have created an oil severance tax to pay for alternative energy projects. Both measures suffered defeat after receiving heavy spending on both sides of the campaigns. In all, voters approved only 2 of 8 initiatives, plus 5 bond measures."

In other words, money and special interests have shifted their focus from influencing the legislature toward influencing the initiative process and the legislature. The executive has used the initiative process in an attempt to circumvent standard government procedures when not getting his way. Money, billions of dollars of it, is the wallpaper of the initiative process.


Now if you would be so kind as to answer my questions.


OnEdit: Added back an inadvertently deleted line.

[droidamus2]

13. I agree

The 'idea' of the initiative is good but it definitely can be abused by those with less then ethical? agendas. One of the tricks initiative writers in California used to use (I think it has been banned) was to write controversial initiatives in a way so that if you voted NO you were actually voting to approve the initiative and YES meant you were voting it down. I'm sure they have come up with methods to replace this. Another trick is at the signature gathering level. I have literally had people ask me to sign an initiative but be unwilling to explain exactly what it was about or give misleading explanations. Another gathering trick is to invite you to sign a bunch of petitions but only really explain what the most popular one was. I know as a voter its up to you to be sure what your signing and many of these people are just interested in getting the signatures and don't really care how they get them but being open and honest on their part wouldn't hurt. Lastly, it's not a 'trick' per se but people using the initiative system also seem to think if you put initiatives on a particular subject on the ballot enough times and have it rejected that eventually people will vote for it just so they don't have to see it on the ballot anymore.

[Goldstein1984]

4. From the article: "The feeling is one of revolt."

The nation needs to be in revolt.

Another post in this thread makes a good point: "The beginning of what?" With as many bad propositions as good ones.

As Progressives begin to assert themselves-to revolt--there is a fine line we cannot cross.

We need to be citizens revolting, rather than, like the Teabaggers, revolting citizens.

[hack89]

11. But what kind - a conservative or progressive revolt?

both sides are equally pissed off - the results may not be what you want.

[divideetimpera]

5. Corporate Media sure does hate democracy

the corporate media sure does hate ballot initiatives, referenda and other true democracy measures.


some example of the biased text from the article above:


By JENNIFER STEINHAUER
Published: January 9, 2010

LOS ANGELES — From San Diego to Mount Shasta, voters are expressing mounting disgust over California’s fiscal meltdown and deteriorating services, and they are offering scores of voter initiatives that seek to change the way the state does business.

Over 30 such initiatives — among over 60 total initiatives so far — are now wending their way toward the ballot box. Every day, it seems another vexed voter adds a proposal to the fray.
===============

another patriotic citizen trying to bring democracy to their state, you mean?

-------------------------------
Some verge on the radical, like one to establish the state’s first constitutional convention in over a century, to rewrite California’s most fundamental legislative rules.

=====================


Oh, my gosh. We cannot let that happen!!!!!!
Since when is innovation bad? Oh, that's right--it's only bad when the citizens get involved.


=======================
There are initiatives in circulation that would reduce the time the Legislature is in session, punish legislators for late budgets and criminalize “false statements about legislative acts.”
=================


Sounds good to me.


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Despite the fact that past initiatives helped get California into its budget crisis — forcing spending in some areas while limiting taxation in others — the pileup of new ones suggests that many voters still believe they hold the solution to the state’s mess. Few seem to believe that elected officials are up to the job.
=======================

Could this possibly be any more biased? California is a decent state to live in, despite its large size. And there are so very few decent states in America.


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The number of initiatives so far, while high, is not the largest in history. But the rage that underlies them has not been seen in decades, said lawmakers, pollsters, political consultants and the proponents.
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GOOD!

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“The feeling is one of revolt,” said John Grubb, the campaign director for Repair California, a coalition behind a pair of initiatives to call a constitutional convention. “And come January, they will start negotiating the budget again, and there will be more fear and loathing. The feeling here is that California state government is broken, and we need not a little fix, but a big fix.”
=============

here is your big fix.
Eliminate the position of governor, eliminate the upper house, and then reduce the size of the lower house districts. THEN, seperate the state into 3 or more independent districts, each with its own separate government.


=-=============
The public university system, once the crown jewel of California, is struggling with layoffs, tuition increases and outright student and faculty revolts. In the public secondary schools, classroom sizes have swelled and program cuts are rampant.
===============

Good. The higher education industry is for the most part a scam. Cut most everything except science and engineering curricula.


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“Lots of people are unhappy, but for so many different and conflicting reasons that it is hard to envision where we will end up,” said Bruce E. Cain, a professor of political science at the University of California, Berkeley. “It could be a chaotic jumble.”

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It's DEMOCRACY, bitch. And if the USA at large had a national initiative process, we would be a far better nation.

[katkat]

7. divide

Every so often the plan to divide CA in half would come up, and I thought that was a good idea, until I saw they were going to put my town in, horror, Southern California.

[divideetimpera]

8. the divide is only part of the important stuff

the elimination of checks and balances and the decrease in voting district size is the real improvement.

[davidpdx]

10. We have to put up with the same thing in Oregon

Although lately it has gotten a little bit better, some real doozy measures have passed in the last 15-20 years that make you wonder how progressive we really are.

With Sizemore in deep trouble though, it may at least cripple the ablity of the Conservatives to get stuff on the ballot.

[Oerdin]

14. Some thoughts.

The sections I consider most important are the parts about changing the 2/3rds rule to pass a budget, limiting the initiative process's potential economic impact (both to increase spending and to decrease taxes since the slaggers always vote to do both), but there is so much special interest influence I seriously doubt the whole process. Typically if a strong initiative comes along and looks popular then the special interest which would be effected will put up 2-3 competing ballot measures designed to muddy the waters, confuse voters, and generally get the whole thing tossed out. With 60 ballot measures in this cycle so far (and still 10 months to go) it looks like there will be a huge amount of that going on again.

I really hope we don't decentralize things though as it would be embarrassing to have creationists voting to mandate "creation science" for all schools in right wing places like Fresno. What we need to do is keep the centralization but repeal the crappy Republican "reforms" of the 1980's such as the one which requires a 2/3rds vote to pass the yearly budget; that just insures the special interests always get their way and the budget is never on time. The measure to limit the cost of ballot measures though would be great.