2 more churches in Malaysia firebombed in 'Allah' row

[BolivarianHero]

Source: CNN World

Two more churches in Malaysia were firebombed Sunday, bringing the total to six since a court ruled that non-Muslims can use the word "Allah" as a term for God.

No one has been hurt in the attacks, which began Friday. They follow a high court's ruling that Christians can use the word "Allah" in literature printed in the country's official language, Malay.

In Malay, the word for God is "Allah," as it is in Arabic.

But many in the predominantly Muslim country, including the government, believe the word should be exclusive to Islam

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/01/10/malaysia.church.bombings/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

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Not satisfied with sending the Sharia Gestapo after working-class Muslims fucking in cheap hotels, the Malaysian religious wackos are trying to stop religious minorities from speaking their own languages.

[msongs]

1. ain't religion wonderful? nt

[barb162]

3. I don't see anything about Christians torching mosques.

[TommyO]

21. No, they've been too busy stripping civil rights from gay people here in the US.

[SkyDaddy7]

5. Yes it is!!

No matter where religion is, or what religion it is, or whether it is moderate or extreme, it will be causing trouble of some kind for the society in which it is practiced!

I want to respect folks right to believe in Bronze Age Myths but it is getting harder & harder to do so!

Religion has been the deciding factor in almost every election the GOP has won over the last 30 or so years...And look what we have to show for it?

Yet there will always be those who say "Religion is not bad people are bad", WHATEVER! Read the Bible! It is nothing but Bronze Age morals!

[anonymous171]

8. Religion has not been the deciding factor in any election over the past 30 years. nt

[SkyDaddy7]

10. You are in desperate need of a history lesson! nt.

[MellowDem]

12. Look at Soviet Russia and Communist China...

those "paradises" where religion was essentially banned. Religion is as "good" or "bad" as the culture that practices it.

[proteus_lives]

14. DUers willingly forget that point.

Religion is too good of a scapegoat.

[SkyDaddy7]

25. I have forgot nothing...

The ole China/Russia thingy is nothing but one big fallacy. Yes, these are two examples where religion in a god was banned but a new godless religion was pressed upon the people called Communism. Trying to say China or Russia are examples of societies absent of religious dogma is the typical excuse but it does not mean it is true.

Religion, if a must, should be kept personal or within the community of a church. The minute it is forced upon anyone else it becomes evil and a drain on society. Morals do not come from religion! Actually we have laws that prevent folks from acting on some of the morals of the Christian Bible. So, typical "moral" argument does not fly either.

[The Straight Story]

31. it is called bigotry and some here lap it up, then preach against it elsewhere (nt)

[SkyDaddy7]

24. Religion in a god or gods was banned...

and a new religion was put into action called Communism...Or at least it was pressed upon the people like the church has done its religion.

Trying to say China or Russia are examples of societies absent of religious dogma is the typical excuse but it does not mean it is true.

Religion should be personal & left up to the individual to decide what is sacred to them. Otherwise it is a drag on society. IMO.

Religion is good when kept to one's self or within one's church...Religion is bad the minute anyone attempts to force others to follow it. The entire reason we do not allow Gays & Lesbians to marry is due to the mindset religion has installed in people. The same applies to why women are consider less than man. And the examples can go on and on. Personally I think it is time to put these Bronze Age Ideas to rest. I feel that this is exactly what is happening but at a very slow pace.

[MellowDem]

27. Communism is an ideology...

which in many ways is comparable to religion, but it just goes to show that the absence of god will not do away with extremism and dogmatism wrapped up in ideas.

[SkyDaddy7]

29. Religion is an ideology as well...

Mixed with mythology, magic & miracles! Yes, extremism and dogmatism is a drag on society regardless of what form it comes in. However, religion makes folks think its OK to be extreme & dogmatic, or worse, its a must to be extreme & dogmatic or god will punish them! Of course religion is a man made ideology but it is not perceived as such by the believer like Communism or Fascism is. So, compared with a perceived man made ideology like Communism, it is much harder to convince people that the imaginary deity/dictator in their head will not hurt them if everyone enjoys the same rights as they do.
IMO America has been set back at least two decades due to elections being won over religious issues like abortion, gay rights & Evolution in public schools.

My whole point was religion is fine when kept personal & out of public policy.

[MellowDem]

11. It ain't religion...

it's the culture. Culture shapes religion you know, and a culture that is inherently mysoginistic and xenophobic will tend to bear that out in their religious practices as well.

[SkyDaddy7]

30. That's ODD!

Then why does the Bible say it is ok to openly hate others even kill them for being who they are? What about how women are talked about in the Bible? It is religious dogma that shape societies especially societies that use religion to shape public policy.

I guess if one is a believer one will jump through as many hoops as necessary to convince yourself religion is not the most powerful force that shapes people's thinking...And that religion does cause people to think women are not equal to men or GLTB are abominations. Look at America, if we did not have a wall of separation (Which is being torn down) we would be right back in a funk like the middle east. When you have 63% of your population who thinks the Theory of Evolution is lie, nearly half the population wanting to control what women do with their own bodies and more than half who feel it is ok to OPENLY deny certain groups of people rights for being born the way they are then something very serious is wrong with your society! Its religion!

Religion needs to kept personal & private.

[MellowDem]

36. The Bible is interpreted many different ways...

often depending on one's culture. And as culture changes, so does religious beliefs. Religion is no more dangerous to society than any other idea or ideology. It evolves with the culture, it always has and always will. But as for why the Bible says what it does, it's because it is a historical document in many ways, and simply reflects the culture of the time it was written.

As for whether there is something "seriously wrong" with a society because it still treats women as second class citizens etc. etc, really it's just a case of a lack of education and advancement. Some societies will advance faster than others for many reasons, but I have a hard time judging other cultures because they are really just the result of historical circumstance. I of course do hope that one day all societies will evolve in a way that is harmonious and "happy" but I'm not sure that our culture has the corner on that yet. Culture's are changing at a pace probably never before seen in human history and many of the changes that we may see as positive also have negative effects as well.

[SkyDaddy7]

39. I see exactly what you are saying...

I would disagree that religions are no more dangerous than any other ideology. Simply because religion is so deeply personal to the believer and it literally takes thousands of years to overcome. I know of no other ideology with such power. I think we are very lucky to live in a time and part of the world where for once culture provides us the room to even discuss this topic. However, history has shown this can be short lived as religion is the most powerful ideology to have ever existed.

I wish I had your ability to express my thoughts in writing the way you do, thanks!

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madrchsod]

2. actually it should be "ahura mazda"

that should be the real name of the semite`s god

[Tim01]

6. I really like that pic you have. What is it? nt

[cali]

20. Why? Because you say so? Because Zorastrianism pre-dates Judaism?

Because it sounds cooler than god or allah?

[RedRubberBall]

4. Religion of Peace n/t

n/t

[BolivarianHero]

9. I still think there are two events that would have changed the world for the better...

1. Operation Ajax fails and Mossadegh remains in power in Iran.

2. The Soviets succeed in conquering Afghanistan (and for all the hype of Afghanistan not being conquerable, the Mujahideen-Maoist cabal only won the civil war because they received tons of outside support...Without that support, all the geographic advantages and local knowledge in the world would not have been able to stymie Moscow and her local allies).

[Sultana]

7. Religion of Peace

:eyes:

Allah isn't their word, its an Arabic word and last time I checked Malaysia is not a Arab country. Muslim but not Arab!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Not even all Muslim

There are large Chinese (Buddhist/Confucian) and South Indian (Hindu) minorities. Ethnic Malays are Muslim, but they're not even a majority in their own country.

[Sultana]

17. Damn, & they are bitching so much about a word

WOW, some ppl have too much free time.

[Douglas Carpenter]

15. this is truly bizarre - the Arabic word used by Arab-Christians for God is Allah

Arab-Christians say their prayers in Arabic to Allah and always have using the Arabic word for God - Allah. Arab Christian sing their hymns and read their scriptures using the Arabic word for God which of course is Allah. I am unaware of anywhere in the Arab world where there is a Christian minority that the issue of calling God by the Arabic word for God is even the least bit controversial;

I have always heard that throughout most of Malaysia - the form of Islam is very moderate. But, I have also heard that there our some areas where extremism dominates.

[notesdev]

18. The issue is not the word used

but the rights of the people using it. In Islam, non-adherents have no rights, only leave granted by their Islamic betters.

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. there are several Muslim majority countries in the world and several Arab speaking countries in the

world - where there is a Christian minority - no where else has this ever, ever been an issue or is it an issue. This only a very, very small minority of Muslims whether in Malaysia or anywhere else that seek to persecute Christians.

[BolivarianHero]

22. Islamic wackos to religious and ethnic minorities...

"You have two chances: Bend over and take it, or live under full Sharia."

Reminds me of the attitude of a lot of Southern Whites.

[Karenina]

23. Actually, it's more about yet another Vatican PR incursion

to recruit.

[mainer]

26. "He who shall not be named"

It's getting to seem like that's the only acceptable way to refer to Allah.

[sofa king]

38. His action figure is a real letdown, too.

http://teens.rationalresponders.com/image/allah_action_figure

Edit: I just looked, and it seems the good old Jesus Christ Superstore has shut down. That Allah action figure might turn out to be a real collector's item. I'll sell anyone here an unboxed one for fifty bucks.

[Ignis]

28. Oh, joy. I'm going to travel to MY (again) soon.

I really, really try to avoid all talk of religion and politics while traveling in Malaysia, but it's hard to do that when this sort of thing is front-page news.

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. I was just talking with an New Zealand friend of mine who lives in Malaysia part ot the year

he finds this story extremely odd - given that there has generally been relative harmony between Muslims and Christians in Malaysia. This kind of contention seems to be limited to a very small click of hardline fundamentalist. Also, my friend pointed out that he suspects that under the surface we are seeing the long standing animosity between indigenous Malays (who are almost all Muslims) and the ethnic Chinese minority who make up the vast majority of Malaysian Christians - and are frequently resented in a number of places in Asia, being commonly perceived as rich outsiders who dominate the economy. So, in other words, this may be much more of an old ethnic quarrel than a new religious fight.

[hedgehog]

32. The fighting here has more to do with money than religion.

There are a lot of ethnic Chinese Christians in managerial positions with foreign companies in Malaysia. Muslim Malays are attacking their churches as a means of attacking the Chinese community.

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. that's what I suspect as well - just talked to a friend of mine about it - that's what they think

[hedgehog]

35. My info comes from my husband who is working in Korea. He has

a Korean friend managing a plant in Malaysia. I just hope he doesn't become a target for ethnic violence.

[Haole Girl]

37. Wow

:-(

[Dutch]

40. Religion of Peace. n/t