Reid: It Was A Waste Of Time Dealing With Olympia Snowe

[kpete]

Source: Talking Points Memo

Reid: It Was A Waste Of Time Dealing With Olympia Snowe
Brian Beutler | January 13, 2010, 1:21PM


Hindsight's 20-20, but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid now thinks he and leading Democrats--Max Baucus, Barack Obama--flushed months down the toilet courting Sen. Olympia Snowe's (R-ME) support for health care reform.

"As I look back it was a waste of time dealing with ," Reid is quoted as saying in a forthcoming New York Times Magazine piece, "because she had no intention of ever working anything out."

That's a harsh but understandable assessment. The White House was banking on Snowe's support for months, both as a means of securing conservative Democrats' support for the bill, and as a failsafe, in case Reid came up short on votes in the Democratic caucus. But after supporting the Senate Finance Committee's reform proposal, Snowe was hesitant to support major changes to the legislation, which Reid needed to make to keep the progressive wing of his caucus from defecting.

Still, that's unusually blunt language. It could easily raise eyebrows.


Read more: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/reid-it-was-a-waste-of-time-dealing-with-olympia-snowe.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpmelectioncentral+(TPM+Election+Central)

[FLAprogressive]

1. ya think so, dipshit?

[zipplewrath]

5. +1

It's only what progressives were telling him for months. He was trading 6 to get one.

[Sherman A1]

92. +1

[JackInGreen]

168. and a X5 multiplier on the internets you win sir

Well played, and WELL SAID!

[Sherman A1]

181. Hmmmm.

Sounds like a gamer, here (should I break out the D20's?).....

A x5 back at ya!

[Joe Bacon]

191. Harry traded away dozens of orchards and what did he get?

Harry didn't get a single rotted apple back in return. He's deservedly toast. I do look forward to Durbin taking over after Reid gets the boot. Hopefully Durbin will give LIEberman the asskicking that whore deserves.

[xultar]

12. He may be taking a subtle swipe @ Rahm with this message. If so

good for Harry.

[mascarax]

85. That's my take

I don't think Harry Reid was the one pushing for Snowe's vote. I never thought she'd vote for anything worthwhile.

[KoKo]

125. Harry is fighting for his Life in Nevada...he does what he has to

to keep his seat. He tosses the blame in directions that it doesn't belong. The BUCK always stopped with Harry "the Manipulator" like it did with Daschle.

Reid is just bailing and pointing convenient finger at the "other direction" than his own fucking manipulation!

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrModerate]

165. I'm not sure how this helps him at home . . .

Outside of the bracing freshness of acknowledging that he (and Emmanuel, and Obama, etc., etc.) miscalculated a) whether 'Lican bipartisanship was even possible and b) worth pursuing.

[Barbara2423]

161. I think the white house was pushing to get the snowe vote.

Hopefully they have dropped that bipartisan nonsense. Let's get a good bill and pass it.

[patrice]

141. That's what I think. What other purpose would saying something so obvious serve at this point?

[unkachuck]

148. deflection?....we're no longer talking about harrys' inartful comment about the Prez....n/t

[Mithreal]

163. +1 indeed

The Obama admin shat on Reid and the middle class.

[elocs]

20. Who? Reid, Baucus, or Obama or all of them because its says they all courted Snowe. n/t

[FLAprogressive]

23. Yes.

[ooglymoogly]

119. Snow and many other pugs, were just red herrings to get the bill just the way

they wanted it with all its teeth pulled except those authoritarian ones the bloodsuckers needed....Reid kept getting mixed signals from the white house who was playing a transparently devious shell game. Reid was trying to stay in O's corner because he may lose in Nevada and needs O's help. I also believe both the senate and the house would have been much stronger on Public option and much else that was progressive with even a sincere hint from the white house, but, deceitfully, only weak insincere platitudes came when a grandstand was needed but quickly withdrawn when pressure built to high for public option; He gave away grandma's farm and everyone else's savings from the beginning; By taking single payer off the table, a deceitful move that doomed the bill and the citizenry for anything progressive from the start. This is O's Bill start to finish and he has played it like a fiddle; This is O's M.O. As creepy as Rahm is, he is just a product of the O machine that turns out to be nothing more than a calculator with a few wild cards in place of numbers to turn out whatever numbers are needed to further O's (not so democratic) agenda.

[Laelth]

147. Agreed. Obama is responsible. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[sui generis]

25. +1 and a bag of chips.

[karynnj]

28. That is unneccesary and unfair

The fact is that Snowe had crossed the aisle on other bills and had a record that made it likely that she could on this. The fact is that if he immediately assumed her out, the task was finding something every Democrat would vote for with each Democrat knowing he had the ability to stop it. Now, assume that Snowe would have agreed, it is possible that the final deal would have been better.

This may be a case where it was better to try and fail, than not to try at all.

[gateley]

44. She made her position known from the beginning. We weren't going to

change her mind.

[grantcart]

129. Her position from the begining and well publicized in Maine is that she is

for Health Care Reform and that she accepted the basic premise of the Senate bill.

The one thing that she was negotiating for, a trigger for the Public Option, was made pointless because of Lieberman.

She changed her position to voting against a bill that she voted for after the one thing that she said was a problem was taken out.

Her latest speech in the Senate had not a single policy criticism simply that the Senate was moving "too fast".

When she campaigns for reelection in Maine she will be very hard pressed to explain why she voted against this bill.

[Alcibiades]

162. I think it was because of pressure from the leadership

They needed to move in lockstep so that they could then claim that Democrats were not being bipartisan.

[No Elephants]

170. "Moving too fast" is code for "not doing the bill my way.."

No one complains because work they want done is getting done well.

"I want reform and I just love this great bill. My only complaint is that it's not taking up enough time and seems destined to pass too soon."


No. "Moving to fast" = not putting stuff I like into the bill and/or not taking out of the bill stuff I don't like. " That = I don't agree with the policies in this bill."

Liked the idea of the Senate bill? Why wouldn't she? The health insurers wrote the Senate bill.

Messing with Snowe so long left the specifics of the bill up in the air so long that no one could describe/sell it to the public bc no one knew what it would or would not contain. Meanwhile fiddling with her gave the Right more time to lie to America about the bill and all the rumors made the whole process appear to America like one big clusterflock.

P.S. A trigger for a public option would have been meaningless without Lieberman. As you know, triggers in bills are a sham. They don't get pulled.

Maybe approaching Snowe initially was not an error. But, letting her water down and hold up the bill for months certainly was.

[northernlights]

209. wrong

I've lived in Maine for 7 years. What's obvious is Snowe considers "government run" healthcare a failure, after the effed up Dirigo plan here that was set up to fail to prove the point. She was out to sabotage it from the beginning, imho. All of her emails to me after my phone calls to her office underscored that point. After a while, I quit even trying. She's in the pocket of insurance companies, through and through.

With a few (DU) exceptions, too many of the Mainah's here are nothing more than petty, thuggish, not-overly-bright crooks and their government reflects that sad fact. It's a harsh, brutish life in most of this state, once you leave Portland and head north and inland.

[sui generis]

52. the fact is we were compromising before we ever had anything

to compromise with. We were trying to lure support from "across the aisle" rather than get the support of the American people. We had this thing larded with irrational unreasonable features that did NOTHING to address the teleology of the bill in any meaningful way.

How are we measuring the effectiveness of any of this? With a ten year "budgetary" figure that has nothing to do with reality.

If we had started with a strong public option, and added insurance buy-in options (180 degrees, go figure), we would have had such a strong support from real people that the insurance companies would essentially have had to sit down and shut up.

But our legislators are political tools, especially our very own and there is a reason they don't work in private industry - they're just not smart enough, don't have enough vision or real leadership bones.

[Iowa]

73. Well said sui generis...

The thing is, they aren't smart enough to work in the public sector either. Some of the smartest people I know work in government (and in my experience, the smartest ones tend to be front-line workers). On the other hand, some of the dumbest work in the private sector. Whenever a government task is privatized, it is almost always fucked up beyond belief. So I don't think it's a matter of smart-private-sector vs. dumb-public-sector; I think it has more to do with shit rising to the top.

[Nite Owl]

80. Gotta disagree on the last part sui

they aren't stupid, they give these lame, obvious statements because they think we are stupid enough to believe them.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

82. Dead on. How can smart people be so stoopid??

The key was always educating, informing and partnering with the American public. That was Obama's power base, he had an actual mandate, and we could have supported him in getting REAL Health CARE Reform!! He could have had REAL bipartisianship by getting the voters educated and engaged.

This is exactly why I have come to believe that Obama was never committed to health care reform, beyond passing anything he could point to as an accomplishment. He had no passion... What a wasted opportunity. :nuke:

[Jim Sagle]

84. Actually they ARE smart enough to pretend they're on our side.

And the reason they don't work in private industry is that they FIRST have to get elected and sell out the public interest. Once they retire, THEN they'll work in private industry - as a reward for screwing us over.

[liberation]

112. The sad part is that the founding fathers never expected politics to be a career

they were operating under the assumption of elected representatives being elected to do their work, and go back to their previous lives once their work they were elected to do was done. In order words they were expected the legislative bodies being made of engaged citizens... not career leaches.

This is why most elected officials in this country see electioneering and not the legislative process as their primary job description.

[Krashkopf]

90. +1 for Suie G

[No Elephants]

172. We had something. We started with a bill written by health insurers.

Using that as a departure point, we bent over even further for the likes of Baucus, Nelson, Lieberman and Snowe (and through that Trojan horse, all the Republicans in Congress, or at least, the Senate.)

[SaveOurDemocracy]

75. 'unnecessary and unfair'??

It was a RIDICULOUS waste of time!


I'm glad, for once, that Reid had the gumption to state the unvarnished truth. I'm also sure the RePukes will do some howling, try to spin it into more controversy, but ... what else is new.


+1 for Harry ... 20 more and he might get back in the black.

[roguevalley]

154. actually, I don't want mea culpas and post mortems after the murder.

Harry Reid thinks he's smart enough to lead in a political whirlwind and he just showed how stupid and unfit he is for the job.

[No Elephants]

173. Thing is, how do we know that is indeed the "unvarnished truth,"

the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

We really don't know if this is the whole story--and I tend to doubt that it is. Nothing specific. I've just stopped trusting them.

[Raineyb]

143. Actually it was both necessary and fair.

All this kow-towing to Snowe to get her to vote at a time when her vote wasn't needed only for her to turn around and say that they'll have to kiss her butt again to get a vote on the final bill? ANd for what? She never budged from her odious position it was a painfully obvious ploy to get some pork thrown her way and as she's never voted for anything that they're calling health care reform again, a waste of time.

[roguevalley]

153. *I*, who sits in Alaska with a computer and a modem could see that

she was not going to do jack shit. They have no excuse. She has been a dependable repuke vote for anything W wanted. that should have been warning sign one.

[YOY]

36. +1

n/t

[racaulk]

62. +1

[ShortnFiery]

68. +1

After the fact again, Harry? Our Majority Leader in the Senate is next to useless. :thumbsdown:

[Raoul]

81. Amen bro!!

I laughed my arse off when I saw your title here - you beat me to the punch!
They kill me, they really do! Are they that dense? Don't they realize they should just flush all of the repukicans' opinions down the toilet. Snowe isn't a moderate of any kind. She's as moderate as those red dog demdipshits who are really closet neocons..

[No Elephants]

175. "Moderate" Republican = rigid neocon. "Moderate Democrat" = Republican Lite

Classic Democrat = far left lunatic fringe.


I love Newspeak.

:sarcasm:

[lumberjack_jeff]

88. Ha ha

[undergroundnomore]

118. Kind of wonder

if this was some news flash for them or something. I mean really, working with the republicans is a waste? Wow what an eye opener that is. Who knew. (sorry I just had to get that off my chest.)

[No Elephants]

176. I wonder, ttoo. This very belated "realization" of something incredibly obvious seems kabuki-like.

[varelse]

135. basically, you've just said all that needs to be said here

how did it take him this long to figure that out????

[roguevalley]

152. why the hell was getting her single vote so damned important that

all of us are going to pay for it forever? I hate them all. Truly, I do. Fuck Olympia Snowe, the sow.

[Jamastiene]

171. +1000000

[DebbieCDC]

2. If he would've read DU he would have know that a LONG time ago

What a piss-poor excuse for a speaker

[No Elephants]

177. He probably did know it a long time ago. And I have a feeling that, while

he personally probably does not read D.U., Democrats have a fairly good idea what gets posted here and at Kos. Just a guess.

[chimpymustgo]

3. No shit, SHERLOCK. These are some stupid motherfuckers in Congress.

[Cha]

21. Yeah, and the same could be

said for freaky sites on the internet.

[closeupready]

30. And it could be said of DU if it weren't for the fact that we were right about bipartisanship.

and what a colossal waste of time that is.

[Cha]

47. Yeah, but now Harry Reid gets to come

out and say they tried and expose olympia for what an obstacle she is.

This will go down in history.

[frylock]

96. yes, more 3-d chess..

give it a rest already. the repubs inability to play ball was exposed MONTHS ago. we get it. obama has established his plausible deniability. are they going to continue playing this bullshit till the eleventh hour, or are they finally going to tell the repubs to piss off?

[roguevalley]

155. IMHO, I believe after the imbroglio about his remarks about Obama,

Harry is bitter and angry, especially since he is not doing well toward re-election. He's living alone, his life is here and its slipping away. He's just speaking out loud his bitterness. I would give him my phone number to call since EVEN THOUGH I LIVE IN ALASKA AND COULD SEE IT COMING!!!! I don't think he would take it.

[No Elephants]

178. On the surface, it seems so, yet they are all multi-millionaires and most of them are pretty.

smart about what they need to do to keep getting re-elected, into retirement age and, if they wish, well beyond typical retirement age.

I learned a long time ago not to assume people who were not doing what I thought was the smart thing were not necessarily dumber than I was. They just had different agenda than I realized, and/or different priorities.

[gateley]

4. They should have listened to all of us -- we saw where it was going.

And let it raise some eyebrows. It's about time they started naming names and stopped playing games.

[FormerDittoHead]

34. I HATE it when we're so correct! Why don't they listen to us, for crying out loud?

on edit: changed "right" to "correct" :-)

Seriously, however - and I'm DROP DEAD serious - when have we been wrong?

I mean, the right has gotten EVERYTHING wrong. WHY do they listen to THEM?

The point is, get the CORRECT plan passed, HAVE IT *WORK* and you'll get the support from the independents.

Republicans will NEVER support Obama...

[gateley]

40. It was so obvious from the outset -- it's disturbing. nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

79. why do people listen to the conservatives?

because they catapult the propaganda (and gots the $$$ for a lot of big catapults)


makes me scream too, FormerDitto. How many times can we say "we told you so"?

[progressoid]

6. Ya well, it's a real waste of time dealing with you too Harry.

[Vincardog]

7. Duh are ya just NOW figuring this out Harry?

[elocs]

26. Well, Duh, it says Baucus and Obama courted Snowe as well.

So, any duhs for them as well? :shrug:

[Vincardog]

29. Have they admitted what a colossal waist of time courting the GOP is?

[elocs]

49. Obviously that is what the scapegoat Reid is for, but they were all part of it. n/t

[gateley]

46. Yes. Plenty of duhs to go around. nt

[laughingliberal]

76. Yes, just how much time did Baucus waste with the gang of six assholes? nt

[Odin2005]

8. NO SHIT!

[Rockholm]

213. My sentiments, exactly!

On edit: Spelling. Geez Louise!

[DJ13]

9. I wish the WH was as honest

[xultar]

14. You are the only one who posted the right answer.

[Cha]

24. Whine Whine Whine.

[DJ13]

56. Cheese Cheese Cheese

[MrModerate]

166. Just to keep the misspelling thing going . . .

Shouldn't that be Jeez Jeez Jeez?

[Iowa]

74. Rah Rah Rah

[msongs]

10. obama and reid think dems and repubs are equivalent and equal. moronic belief nt

[No Elephants]

179. Maybe they just think their base is gullible.

This seems too much like kabuki theater. Could it be that the story posted here a couple of days ago--about the remarkable rise in the price of health stocks lately--requires a scapegoat and Snowe is a safe one?

I don't know what the reason is, but my gut is buying this.

[xultar]

11. Captian Obvious to the rescue

[DisgustedInMN]

13. Well..

... no shit Harry?

Ya think?

:argh:

[FlyByNight]

15. So much for better late than never

The attrition of Congressional demands on the healthcare "reform" bill may prove to be too high a toll.

Sen. Reid would do well if he bothered to listen to those who actually reside outside the Beltway bubble. This goes for the White House too.

:eyes:

[MisterP]

39. step 1): decide that healthcare reform is giving too much to the peasants

2.) butcher Senate bill until it's even worse than the House's weak sauce
3.) say you did it to get Snowe's vote; she agrees
4.) send out DLC shock troops to scream that "the Teabaggers hate this bill!" "the insurers are running scared!" "Fearless Leader would never let us down!" "it's something, so we have to pass it!"
5.) bill passes
6.) issue mea culpa that Snowe is a bad person

everybody (who matters) is happy!

[Confusious]

156. You forgot

8) Collect underpants...
9) ?
10) profit!

[No Elephants]

180. Except that step 1 was begin with bill written by the health insurance industry

which needed a mandate and no public option because the boomers are slipping away to Medicare.

And somewhere, stick in this step: watch the price health stocks skyrocket, even in a lousy economy.

[fascisthunter]

16. oh... you were being serious? I figured it was all a dog-and-pony show

[No Elephants]

182. It probably was a dog and pony show---

and this belated announcement of the numbingly obvious is probably also a dog and pony show.

IMO, there's a reason why Senate Democrats keep elected Reid their leader: He does whatever the Party wants--and he lets folks like us scapegoat him for everything about the Senate we don't like. He plays the fool for them and never flinches when we blame him instead of them.

Dodd was trailing and the Democrats told him to come to Jesus. Give the Party a chance to keep your seat. Harry trails and it's all good. They'll fight for him to the bitter end, just as they did for Lieberman a couple of years ago, (another one who provides cover).

Mark my words. If Harry manages to keep his seat, he'll remain leader.

[Autumn]

17. And water is wet Harry.

Idiot.

[ArnoldLayne]

18. He finally figured that

out.

[tularetom]

19. Well Mr Reid, a lot of people here on DU tried to tell ya

It was her job to get Reid and the Dems to tear the guts out of the thing and then vote against it anyway.

And she did her job well.

[rwheeler31]

22. Why not focus your anger on Snow her charade as a moderate

is over. It is all party and money first.

[gateley]

54. I actually think she was pretty up front about what she would and wouldn't

agree to. She has been moderate at times in the past, but she didn't make any promises. They just refused to believe her.

[Hippo_Tron]

101. She was actually ambiguous some things

She said she might support the "trigger" public option or maybe the "opt in" public option as well. It seemed to me if there is no public option she would be on board.

[gateley]

106. You're right. I guess I just always got the impression she wasn't going to

give, so I attributed that to her statements (if that makes sense). It was all in my little mind. :7

[Raineyb]

227. Why? I'll tell you why. Because when a snake acts like a snake

you don't get mad at the snake. I knew Snowe was a bloody snake. Why the hell didn't Reid?

[closeupready]

27. WE WERE TRYING TO TELL YOU THAT.

These people are so useless, they don't listen to their constituents. :mad:

[grahamhgreen]

99. +1 !

[kirby]

31. Yet the current bill still contains provisions to appease her n/t

[No Elephants]

183. We really don't know who those provisions survived to appease, do we?

What if Snowe was--and still is-being used to provide cover for Democrats on her Committee who also really wanted those things?



the more I read this thread, the more I think we are accepting too easily that this just occurred to Harry and there is no external reason for him to be saying this now. Yet, we have a base that hates this bill and a recent news story about the impressivve rise in health stocks since the Senate process started (with a bill written by health insurers). Snowe makes a great scapegoat because she is not even a Democrat.

I know I am speculating, but I am doing that because something about this story and its timing just does not meet the smell test--much like the health care bill itself.

[catbyte]

32. No shit, Sherlock...

:eyes:

Diane

Anishnabe in MI

[Festivito]

33. No it wasn't. It got you lots of lobbyist time and money.

And, lots of money for other politicians as well. All at the cost of tens of thousands of American lives each year, who will die needlessly because you prop overly expensive health care so large insurance companies will have the extra money to give you and your cronies.

Enjoy your pieces of silver Reid.

[mdmc]

116. +1

yeah boy!

[No Elephants]

184. Good point. I've been reading his thread post by post and so far, I think you and I

are the only ones not taking Harry's statement at face value. I am not sure why he is saying this now. I just know it is not ringing true to me, nor is the timing.

Despite all the "No shit, Sherlock" posts on this thread, I think Harry's being dumb like a fox.

[closeupready]

210. That really is the truth, isn't it? I didn't think about it that way, but you connected the dots

perfectly. +1000

[KoKo]

35. Reid is worried about keeping his Senate seat. I'm not sure I'd believe

what he says. He made promises to Dems before and broke them and this might be butt covering for his own failures blaming it on others.

[No Elephants]

185. And then there were three. (Please see Reply 184. )

[lsewpershad]

37. Hind sight indeed

However no one can say they did not try for bipartisanship. So, now it is time to move on, full speed ahead, without them, without trepidation. If they don't they are all a bunch of cowards.

[PassingFair]

55. Who could have foreseen?

:puke:

[Zoeisright]

38. Gee, ya think?

Your first mistake, of many, Senator Reid, was thinking that repukes would ever, EVER, deal honestly in any situation. EVER.

[gateley]

57. I think maybe it's because he's from the Old School -- when Dems and Reps

actually DID work together to achieve a greater goal. But he had eight + years to realize that's no longer the case. I don't know what Obama's excuse is.

[No Elephants]

186. Only eight years? The Clinton years were far from bi-partisan.

Probably the only reasons they're not calling for impeachment now is that (a) of course, they don't have the House this time around; and (b) how much impeachment increased Clinton's numbers and the Democratic Party's seats in Congress.

[Hubert Flottz]

41. We tried to tell the fool.

Didn't we?

[janet118]

42. duh! n/t

[lapfog_1]

43. Harry needs to read the parable of the scorpian and the frog...

and, he needs to understand what it is to be a frog.

[AlbertCat]

53. With the "other" scorpian....

[AlbertCat]

45. Pop!

[Tansy_Gold]

48. HEY, HARRY ------------------

[lib2DaBone]

50. LOL "The NSS Award"... No Shit Sherlock

He should have been reading DU for the last year... anyone could have told him the whole bi-partisan cooperation fairy tale was a gigantic waste of time.

[shopgreen]

51. Next time be your own leader Harry insteading of letting the WH lead!

[Uncle Joe]

58. It wasn't a waste of time, Snowe served her purpose for you as prime fig leaf to hide

your abandonment of representing the best interests of the American People to that of the dysfunctional, ineffective and immoral for profit "health" insurance industry and their well financed lobbyists.

You could have shown some serious leadership and stood stalwart on virtuous and logical principle, but that may have meant taking on some members of your own party in bold fashion which would've surely benefited the American People, Snowe was your ticket out of such a scenario.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[fascisthunter]

60. .

what you said

[No Elephants]

187. And then there were four. (Please see Reply 184)

[high density]

59. Well I hope the Dems use that as a lesson

Even one of the most supposedly "moderate" Republicans cannot be reasoned with. Democrats are on their own.

[lumberjack_jeff]

89. Hope springs eternal, but being a dumbass hurts daily.

[freddie mertz]

61. Surprise surprise surprise.

Much if not all of the HCR effort has been a waste of time.

I hate to say it, but we got screwed.

[DailyGrind51]

63. Harry, tell us something we didn't know!

[midnight]

64. Democrats are now ready to compromise... Can you believe who they will need help from??

This negotiation will be unusual because almost everything the House and Senate agree to will be subject to the consent, or at least acquiescence, of Nelson and Joe Lieberman, the last two senators to commit to vote for the bill last month.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/10/AR2010011002145.html

[zaj]

65. Red Meat.

He may or may not really believe this, but he's saying it for political reasons.

[No Elephants]

188. And then there were five. (Please see Reply 184)

Between Reply 184 and this one, I saw two more believers that Harry is funning us, so you're the fifth so far. Too few for this long thread, I fear. The rest are either cheering Reid (probably bc the OP mentions Obama and Reid were on the same side) or saying Reid is dumb.

How easily we're led to slaughter, even after the bailout of the bankers and this bailoug of Big Health.

[Cleita]

66. Regrets don't change the harm done. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

93. Not just kissing Snowe's ass, but Nelson and Lieberman's

Expressing regret won't change the harm done, like you said.

[scytherius]

67. PLEASE let this moron lose next year

He has done more damage to America than 41 GOP votes could have ever hoped. I'd rather have 51 Dem votes than this idiot and 60.

[BP2]

77. The hell with next year! Democrat Senators should have a meeting NOW and hold a NO CONFIDENCE VOTE!

We're still wasting valuable time, and still not getting the things we need in HCR.

[No Elephants]

189. That would mean a Republican in his seat. He needs to do a Dodd and announce

now that he is not going to seek re-election so that a some young Democratic blood can run for his seat.

[freddie mertz]

69. NOW he tells us what we already knew in June.

!@!@#$#%@#!!@#!@$!@$!@$

[old mark]

70. Harry, just apply that to the Republicans in general. How long does it take

for the light to go on with this guy?


mark

[global1]

71. Hell-low-oh........nt

[begin_within]

72. Now if they would just flush the whole bill down the toilet and start over with single payer,

it would still be worth the months of wasted time. As the bill is now it's not worth it at all.

[pundaint]

164. If Reid doesn't do that, after this article he will have zero credibility. If he does, he's a hero.

I think there are a lot of folks who would march to more progressive leadership. Obama has only 6 political years left, he knows he can coast to a lucrative retirement, the Democratic Party should not sacrifice their principles for that poseur. Reid and Pelosi should take Congress back, save the party, and save Democracy. Queue the music...

[No Elephants]

190. Reid and Pelosi took Congress back in 2006 and Democrats took the WH back in 2009.

We are running the country. Change happened. This is it.


And that is what is keeps me awake at night.

For eight years, I thought the only issue was Bushco. Turns out, it's America, Inc. Bushco only delayed that realization.

Our choices are Demlicans or Republicrats, both of whom are on K Street's payroll.

Thank you, Ronald Reagan.

[Fearless]

78. Hello Captain Obvious! n/t

[Duke Newcombe]

83. In related news, Sun hot, water wet...n/t

[graywarrior]

86. No shit, Sherlock.

[veganlush]

87. This strikes me as an attempt to put blame for failure...

..on the Repugnants, when it really belongs to the bogus Democrats.

[No Elephants]

192. And then there were six. (Please see Reply 184)

Since that Reply, I've been counting every other poster who is not taking this mea culpa of Harry's at face value. I wish there were more of us, but I am glad I'm not alone.

[lunatica]

91. The pace was too dizzying for her

Everything just went way too fast. She wanted to debate it for 100 more years. Can you blame her?

[No Elephants]

193. She didn't want debate. She wanted to keep watering down the bill that the health insurers wrote in

the first place. And, after she stopped, the Democrats watered it down even more, plus sticking in more ugly bits, like practially making abortion illegal again and bribing Nelson's state in perpetuity . Maybe Harry thinks we forgot that.

Kabuki theater aimed at Democrats, by Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid.

[WolverineDG]

94. This just in

the Pope is Catholic.

dg

[frylock]

95. no shoot?

such insight.

[defendandprotect]

97. Wow . . . what a surprise!!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

98. But Joe's vote was time well spent.

:loveya:




:argh:

[grahamhgreen]

100. Reconcilliation or the house bill is our only hope - we have to kill the senate bill!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

104. Reconcilliation puts the PO back on the table!

Chances of happening: 0.000001%

[bvar22]

102. It was NOT a "waste of time".

It was an effective ruse to cover up the Democratic Party Leadership's betrayal of Working Class Americans.

It is PATHETIC....LAUGHABLY PATHETIC to try and claim that they were just poor little victims trying to do the right thing looking for "bi-partisanship".

ANYONE who buys this pathetic COVER STORY is naive beyond belief!

In 2008, the American voters gave the Democratic Party:
*The White House

*A filibuster proof MAJORITY in the Senate

*A vast MAJORITY in the HOUSE

*A HUGE MANDATE FOR "CHANGE"!!!

Olympia Snow had NOTHING to do with the Democratic Party Betrayal.
These people are NOT THAT STUPID.
This is nothing BUT a pathetic excuse.

The Democratic Party OWNS this bill.
THIS is "the best they could do".
NO EXCUSES!

[mdmc]

117. +1

[DisgustedInMN]

139. Shhhhhhhhhhhh...

...we're not supposed to know, 'cuz we are just so ducking fumb!

[No Elephants]

194. And then there were 7. (Please see Reply 184).

:fistbump:

[diane in sf]

222. I totally agree

[dbonds]

103. This goes under the heading of 'No Shit"

[KoKo]

124. Seriously.....

:eyes:

[stuart68]

105. Waaaaaahhhhh

[rurallib]

107. JAYSUS EEFFING KAYRIST!

:banghead: :banghead:

[Jakes Progress]

108. Calling Captain Obvious. Calling Captain Obvious.

What a clueless maroon.

[Joe the Liberal]

109. He's just figuring that out? Are you kidding me? Anyone with half a brain knew that months prior. n/

[madrchsod]

110. i think we were way ahead of him on that one....

[geezerpk]

111. And she's light skinned

and speaks English like a middle American, but can go Maine-iac when she chooses.

[SoapBox]

113. Duh!!!

LOLOLOLOL...

as millions of other Americans also said, "...ya think?"

[Captain Hilts]

114. And, now Blue Cross is raising rates in Maine 22%. How's that sit with Ollie? nt

[KoKo]

127. Tell me about it! Small Business owner in NC...Up 8% for nothing

that's changed about us. We aren't sick we haven't used what we pay in every year...and yet...we are up 8% after 5% last year? And...the damned HCR doesn't really kick in until four years from now for most of us...but in the meantime the rates keep going up when the Health Care Industry saw us as SUCKERS...SUCKERS....SUCKERS!

[David Zephyr]

160. This was to be Obama's crown of glory and instead it will be the ruin of his presidency.

Everyone I speak with is simply flabbergasted at how he gave one full year to this instead of jobs and working on the mortgage nightmare. And now that we know what the "product" is, it was a disastsrous waste of a precious year.

His 47% approval rating with the public is a snapshot of a president in free fall with the public. His chronic breaking of campaign promises has cost him the trust of the American people and makes him look like just another politician. Trust betrayed is rarely, if ever regained by politicians.

The fact that Obama is staying away from campaigning for the Senate Seat in the most liberal state in America (the only one that voted against Richard Nixon), tells us everything we need to know and what David Axelrod knows: Obama is not only no longer popular, he may be toxic to Democrats now up for re-election.

Harry Reid is toast. Trying to suck up to the base and activists in the Party now won't work. I only wish someone would challenge him or that there was an Independent Progressive like a Bernie Sanders that could run in Nevada...or best, Reid announces, like Dodd, he's retiring.

[No Elephants]

195. I agree with all you said, except that t I am not sure Obama is toxic in Massachusetts.

Axelrod may be unsure enough to keep him out though.

I've heard some media s.o.b.s say that Obama is staying away bc he does not want to be embarrassed by Coakley, but that makes no sense at all. He is going to need her in that seat or HCR will not pass at all--and he did say he's staked his re-election on passing HCR.

Reid does need to, as I put it, "do a Dodd"-- and soon.

[crikkett]

224. humbug. Just because Reid squandered a supermajority doesn't mean Obama's a failure.

For one, funding 13,000 new clinics creates jobs in construction and health care, and brings affordable health care to urban settings. It builds infrastructure for a future single-payer system.

[mdmc]

115. Rham's idea

such fail

[No Elephants]

196. Sure. BABO

Blame anybody but Obama, brilliant man, POTUS, head of the Democratic Party and the man who hired Rahm and has kept him on all this time, obviously not unhappy with his performance.

[sabrina 1]

120. Why don't they listen to their base?

Did anyone in their right mind NOT think it was a waste of time? I remember even comedians making fun of the fact Dems, with control of all three branches of government, were falling all over themselves to get Olympia Snowe's vote. Some wondering if she had been elected President of the US.

Weren't we told that negotiating with her was some kind of three-dimensional chess, when we pointed out the obvious? Sometimes things just are what they seem and that whole Snowe episode looking like a hugh waste of time to a lot of people. Harry is a little behind his base on this.

The question is, is the leadership just plain stupid or were they trying to make it LOOK LIKE they needed Republicans on board. If it was the latter, they never convinced anyone except for the usual party loyalists who lose their intellectual abilities when everyone else isn't buying the nonsense.

[No Elephants]

197. Assume the leadership is not stupid and is as aware as you are of what

comedians on TV are saying, if not more so. (They don't have to watch themselves. They have huge staffs, consultants, pundits, "Democratic strategists," etc.) Assume also that they know the gist of what gets posted at DU and Kos. Because that, too, is highly likely. And then take it from there. Then see what you conclude about this hcr bill, Democrats spending so much time letting Snowe (supposedly) water down the bill, and Harry's making this statement now.

Just for fun. Just as an experiment. Because, IMO, it is very unlikely that the Senate Democratic Majority Leader of the Senate of the United States (formely Minority Leader) is that much dumber than the 99% of DU posters, or that he does not know what Stewart, Leno, Colbert, O'Brien, Letterman and Kimmel are saying every night.

This is the man who buttonholed Obama to beat Hillary in the primaries when Obama was less than a year and a half into his first Senate term. And Axelrod, who got Obama elected is still at his side--and neither of them has suffered a head injury lately.

Dumb like foxes, IMO.

[lunatica]

203. This needs to be emphasized constantly

"They" aren't dumb. "They" know full well what they're doing. First they pay lip service when they are either running for office or getting ready to pass important social legislation. Then they pretend to debate the issue while never intending to make any social change that will affect their corporate pay dirt. This strategy works very well for them because the corporations shower them with money to pay them for the demise of any social legislation that would cut into their profits.

Then they don't pass social legislation unless it benefits their bosses, the lobbyists.

Meantime they play at being too dumb to understand what any averagely intelligent person gets.

[Suji to Seoul]

121. and the last horse crosses the finish line. . .W2G, ass monkey

Never work with these Republicans. . .they will fuck you in the end.

Putz!

[winninghand]

122. Better to try and fail, than to not try at all.

[Guilded Lilly]

123. Let his comments raise eyebrows.

It WAS a waste of time. And emotions and energy and moreso...wasted faith in the Democratic party to get these things done. Go ahead and use the type of blunt talk the Obstructionist Party of NO has been using for years.

He might as well be blunt since they go after him for every word out of his mouth anyway.

[SlingBlade]

126. Do they think THIS will deter

progressive and liberal outrage if this Bill continues in its present form ?

No more Good Cop Bad Cop, DO YOUR JOB'S or get the hell outta Dodge

[ArcticFox]

128. YOU KNOW, THE SKY MIGHT BE BLUE, TOO

Maybe I would have noticed that long ago HAD I OPENED MY EYES.

HARRY, I HOPE THOSE REPUBLICANS RUN YOU OUT OF THE SENATE. YOU'RE WORSE THAN USELESS. And please, take that representative from California Pelosi out to the shooting range with you when you're changing the right wingers' targets. Will you be surprised when they shoot you in the back?

[Highway61]

130. I, for one am sick to death of hearing how

a "moderate" republican she is. Repug is a repug. When push comes to shove she's in the pocket of the big boys. Coming from a state where people were and are struggling even when the economy was GOOD, she NEVER voted in their interest....ever.

[Ticonderoga]

132. I call bullshit on Reid

This entire charrade has played out exactly the way it was intended. It's three card monty folks. They (Dems & Reps) are playing both ends against the middle. They never intended to give us health care reform. It's good cop bad cop politics. They are just trying to cover Obamas tracks from his campaign promise to make something happen. It's not happening and in fact if this POS bill actually passes we are entirely fucked over. No health care reform, just a big giant F.U. The Insurance companies are laughing their asses off along with the banks and big pHarma. This bill should be killed and the peasants should take to the streets and demand campaign finance reform and TERM LIMITS.

[No Elephants]

198. And then there were seven. Please see Replies 190 and 197

Way too few of us, but I'm glad to see at least seven (so far--I'm not finished reading the thread).

BTW, IMO, the only way this bill will not pass is if Martha Coakley loses on Tuesday in Massachusetts.

[pleah]

133. I hate to say we told you so, but WE TOLD YOU SO! n/t

[Capt. America]

134. Cast 0 level spell: detect obvious.

[BrklynLiberal]

136. DUH???! Ya think?????????????????????/

[sueh]

137. No, shit, Harry.

So tell me, Harry. What lesson have you learned? Have you finally learned the Repubs have no interest in working with Democrats? Ever?? Now STOP trying to please the repubs and get to work on pleasing US. :mad:

[abq e streeter]

138. "waste of time" ? It's never a waste to seek the spirit of bipartisanship

look at all the successes in recent years of working hand in hand with the republicans. Why there's...um...uh... I'll have to get back to ya on that one ( you betcha).

[bvar22]

216. "Successes" working with Republicans:

NAFTA
CAFTA
GATT
Telecommunications Act 1996
Repeal of Glass-Steagall
Welfare Reform
MFN for China

Tax Cuts for the RICH
Iraq War Resolution
Every single Supplemental War Appropriation
Patriot Act
Alito
Roberts

TARP
Trickle Down Stimulus

Every single one of the above REQUIRED Democrats to work WITH Republicans.

[abq e streeter]

217. great list---gives me tingles of pride just to read it

and just in case it's needed ( ya just never know)::sarcasm:


but yeah, ( w/o the sarcasm this time), how utterly pathetic for a party that was still on the side of the working man and woman when I was young...

[orbitalman]

140. You stupid, stupid little man. n/t

[bvar22]

219. Reid is NOT "stupid".

But he thinks YOU are.

Olympia Snow had NOTHING to do with the Democratic Party Leadership's betrayal of the Working Class.
She is just a bit player in the Kabuki Theater.

[Faygo Kid]

142. Grassley was even worse.

The GOP thugs never had any intention of doing anything that Rush might disapprove of. They have their Lord and Master, and they worship him unconditionally.

[JDPriestly]

144. Eyebrows? Probably not.

But poll numbers, yes. Is there hope that Reid is learning?

[dflprincess]

145. Pity he didn't figure that out before he sold us out and

abandoned meaningful health care reform in favor of the Insurance Profit Protection Act - just to keep Snowe and the republican wing of the Democratic party happy.

If he meant this statement, he'd kill this bill and go back to the drawing board. Saying "Gee, I'm really sorry I helped fuck you over." is not good enough.

[LaPera]

146. Everyone here at DU knew it & was screaming it for months-Why are Dem reps so fucking dense & stupid

[grahamhgreen]

167. And why won't they listen to us now...?

Y

[The Wielding Truth]

149. Daaaahhh

[donheld]

150. I hate to say we told him so but...

[Robeson]

151. It's all just a dance.

[No Elephants]

199. And then, there were eight. Please see Replies 190 and 197.

:fistbump:

I desperately wish there were more of us, though. Reading this thread post by post has been a real eye opener--and not in a good way.

On edit: I did not see a ninth before getting to the end of the thread. That means only eight who posted on this long thread think Harry is not being sincere about just realizing he was not going to get any help from Snowe. Most think he is dumb. And the rest claim think working with Snowe could have borne fruit.

[Blue_Tires]

157. Straight from the files of "SHIT WE ALREADY KNEW"....

[Blasphemer]

158. Ummm.... duh?.. People here were screaming that at the time.. nt

[Amonester]

159. Yeah, but they don't listen to what People here are screaming...

anytime.

No sir.

They prefer to take the road that will lead them to lose everything (except their bloated bank accounts and their free health-care plans), rather than just take a little bit of their time reading the good advices People here EMAIL them day in, day out.

That's what they love to do: spit on what common sense the Left tells them.

We know where that will lead them (and unfortunately, us with them). :mad:

[smalll]

169. Reid: Snowe's a waste of time. Liberman "double-crossed me" --

Obama is light-skinned with no "negro dialect."

--- It's a bird, it's a plane, it's! ...

[barbtries]

174. duh

the republicans have no intention of working for the good of the nation. that's been obvious from the get.

[No Elephants]

200. Can you spell kabuki theater? Harry did not just wake up to this. He knew it from the jump.

[Enthusiast]

201. Gee, ya think? nt

[jtrockville]

202. Why single out Snowe?

[w4rma]

208. Because she deserves to be outed for the liar she is. (nt)

[smoogatz]

204. Reid should step down.

He is totally not up to the job. What a freaking milquetoast.

[workinclasszero]

205. No shit?

DUUUUUUH!:eyes:

When are the democrats going to stop being nice and sucking up to rethuglians? The f**kers are for the total destruction of the american way of life! They are not going to compromise their religious cult/political views by helping ANY democrat on ANYTHING! I mean WWRS?

R=Rush the nazi of course, the leader of the republican cult.

I wish the dems would do what we elected them to do! F the damn republicans!

[newspeak]

206. the Insurance Industry Protection bill

could have been written by any repuke. On another thread, they're talking about a Nation article where Ensign's little proposal has been slipped in the Senate bill which allows the health industry to raise rates if you don't follow certain criteria. Both parties have created this bill and I see it as a nightmare for the American people. Yeah, I believe this is nothing but theater, staged just for us. When those who wanted single payer or a strong public option weren't allowed at the table, we should of known what was up. Like *'s shite give away to big pharma--this is a solid giveaway to the health industry, as it is written. We all are nothing but captive consumers to big industry, and it looks like as it stands, we will be paying big time, even if most of us can't afford it. And, for me and my family, it will be the final straw on voting for the NEW Democrats--cause I'm not a new democrat kinda of girl. I mean if I was, I could just vote for the repukes!!!!

I'm in Nevada and Harry is in trouble, but hell if I vote for a repuke like Tarkanian. I'm just hoping that some progressive gets in the mix, like I said before, I don't care if the candidate's name is Missy and has worked in the oldest profession in the world, as long as she's concerned with mainstreet's welfare.

[Triana]

207. He JUST NOW figured that out? Huh. n/t

[Javaman]

211. So how successful a boxer was reid? he seems to fall for the rope a dope often.

please replace this failure.

[TexasObserver]

212. We should target the seats of Snowe and Collins.

Snowe is a snake, and Collins doesn't have enough sense to come in out of the rain.

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

214. completely

[h9socialist]

215. In the long run, Olympia is the loser . . .

To paraphrase Captain Kirk: "I've never liked Republicans, and I never will."

[bvar22]

218. No...Olympia will always be rich.

So will Harry Reid, even IF you buy his pathetic cover story.
The whole charade was NOTHING but Kabuki Theater while the Corporate Owned Democrats conspired with their Ideological Twins (Corporate Owned Republicans) to deliver a Trillion Dollar Gift to the Health Insurance Cartel.

Do you really believe that Reid is THAT stupid?
Reid thinks YOU are that stupid.
He was just playing the game.


The only REAL loser is the American Working Class.

[h9socialist]

225. Right on!

I'm for hanging the bourgeoisie from lamp posts! Bring plenty of rope!

[rocktivity]

220. The first candidate for this year's "You Call This NEWS?" award

And in case you missed the awards for last year...


rocktivity

[diane in sf]

221. no shit Sherlock--dealing with any of the Repugs longer than 5 minutes to create the

polite fiction of asking for their cooperation was a utter waste

[Gregorian]

223. These Democrats are too damned conservative. And stupid.

And they're better at looking back than looking forward!

Get with the program you overpaid dimwits!













:)

[DrZeeLit]

226. 1 million voices said "well duh" at the same time..... about 1:21 pm Jan 13

[Political Heretic]

228. Fuck that ignorant dumbfuck. Clearly inept and unequalified to be majority leader.

I'm sorry but if only now does it dawn on Reid how ridiculous it was to "deal" with Republicans that have no interest in dealing, then he's to inept to be senate leader.

I mean even a guy on the street could have told him that.

[24601]

229. That's nothing, think how SHE feels about wasting her time w/ Harry! n/t