Budget cuts swell class sizes at University of Washington (700 students in intro biology)

[depakid]

Source: Seattle Times


Professor Toby Bradshaw begins to address his introductory biology class at the University of Washington as a few stragglers in the class of 700 climb stairs to the balcony at Kane Hall. Budget cuts have forced the biology department to offer fewer, but larger, classes.
------------

They leafed through their textbooks, whispered, ate lunch, tapped on their laptops, played Sudoku. More than 500 students packed the main theater of Kane Hall at the University of Washington recently, waiting for class to begin. Nearly 200 more filled the balcony section. That's 700 students in all in this introductory biology class — more students than attended freshman Meagan Evans' entire high school last year, back in Wisconsin.

"Take out your clickers and put away your cellphones, please," said the lone figure on stage, professor Toby Bradshaw. Biology 180 was under way. Last school year, this was a big class with 400 students. This year, as Bradshaw puts it, "it's a whopper." In response to state budget cuts, the biology department has axed a half-dozen courses, funneling 300 more students into Biology 180.

It's one example of how budget cuts are playing out in university classrooms across the state. In 2009, lawmakers cut $500 million from higher education over two years as the state budget went into free fall. This year, the governor proposes to cut $90 million more. Federal stimulus money and 14 percent annual tuition hikes have helped offset some of those losses. Other sources of money, such as research grants and alumni gifts, have remained intact. But the cuts have still been deep.

Over the past year, the UW has eliminated 850 staff positions, reduced its language offerings and cut its swimming program. Washington State University has cut theater and dance. And Western Washington University incurred the wrath of some alumni by dropping football. The UW hasn't yet reported the number of large classes it's hosting this year. But Kane Hall is booked solid every day and is regularly filled with 700 students, the maximum that can fit into any campus lecture hall.

Read more: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010898857_bigclasses27m.html

[thunder rising]

1. Our only shining light is the universities ... and now they are going 2nd rate.

[One_Life_To_Give]

2. 60 students to a TA?

Don't think it m atters too much if the class is 400 or 700 students. As long as you can see and hear well. And should you have a question be able to get the profs attention. Although personnally I think I've only attended with 250 for a lecture and maybe a few thousand for an exam. As I recall most of the more detailed points were usually taken up during a recitation with the TA.

[Igel]

6. I'm guessing two sections.

My largest class was over 400. Physics 1 and 2, Chemistry 1 and 2. Both were intended to reduce the frosh class by at least 10%.

It didn't help that the TAs also doubled as Berlitz immersion-method language instructors. "Sign up for Physics, get a free immersion Chinese lesson every week!" (or Hebrew, or . . . )

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. Maybe if they didn't give the football coach an $8m 4 year contract...

They could afford to educate students.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2008482442_webuwcoach08.html

At 0-12 last year, I know that there are lots of people who could do better for much less.

[Ex Lurker]

7. generally, those big contracts are paid by outside sources, not the university

now, it would be a true statement to say that those private entities could donate that money to the university's academic side instead, but we both know they probably wouldn't. Anyway, a huge freshman intro class isn't all that big a deal--is there really that much difference between sitting in a class of 300, or 500, or even 700? You're not going to get any interaction with the teacher, and the tests are multiple choice. I would be more concerned about the upper level classes. Class size and whether you have a full professor DO make a difference for those. A 20 person class vs a 50 person class makes a lot more difference as a senior than do a hundred students one way or the other in a frosh intro course.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. His paycheck is signed by Gov Gregoire.

He's the highest paid state employee.

Whether the football program brings in revenue is a different question.

[Ex Lurker]

13. I don't know how it works in Washington state, but at the schools I'm familiar with

the football or basketball coach receives a base salary from the university, generally in the low six figures. The bulk of his/her compensation comes from things like the weekly radio call in show, personal appearance fees, etc. I agree the huge salary looks bad when faculty are being laid off, but most of it is "off the books" as far as the taxpayer is concerned.

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. $2m is his contract with UW.

If he makes other income, it's over and above the $2m.

[harkadog]

14. The football program makes money for the University.

Lousy coaches, lousy teams and the University would lose money.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Show the numbers.

Very few schools have football programs that bring in more money than they spend.

[Missy Vixen]

16. The football program funds every other athletic program at the UW

The football program also will make more money from TV appearances as the team win-loss ratio improves.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. OK

Show the numbers.

[Missy Vixen]

25. Do your own research

I'm not spending half an hour on Google because of your laziness. If you disagree, produce the numbers yourself.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. My laziness?

You made the claim, you back it up.

[Missy Vixen]

28. It's been reported in the Seattle Times, for instance

As a former Husky season ticket holder, I seem to remember the comment making its way into the letters we received from the UW football program as well.

Then again, I'm sure we could produce the current UW athletic program director, and there'd be some problem with it.

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Great.

Then there's a good place for you to start looking.

[Missy Vixen]

33. Here's your numbers

From Forbes, circa 2007, "20 Most Valuable College Football Teams". The Forbes article contains actual dollars and cents.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/20/notre-dame-fooball-biz-sports-cx_ps_1120collegeball.html

University of Washington, Huskies
Value: $50 million
Profit: $19.9 million
Conference: Pac 10
Head Coach: Tyrone Willingham

And let's see your numbers now. Then again, you don't have the balls to produce them.

[Missy Vixen]

36. :crickets: :crickets: :crickets:

It's oddly silent. I wonder why.

Lazy.

:eyes:

[Malikshah]

51. Provide a forensic audit report on foundation monies and then we'll talke

until then, your naivete regarding how the athletics system works in Universities and the impact and influence (both good and just as often ill) is showing.

[Missy Vixen]

52. Bull

"Foundation monies"? This is the athletic department of a state university. They are audited. Their financial books are most likely open for examination by government officials at the least, and probably the public as well.

If you think there's so much "there" there, I'll challenge you to do the same thing: Produce the numbers. I'm not doing your research.

[Malikshah]

53. operative words used-- "most likely" Cry Bull all you want

My post also addresses other issues, but as folks don't wish to address unfortunate realities, I'll leave the discussion with the echo chamber ostriches.

[harkadog]

20. Here are the numbers

Although I'm sure you will have some other excuse for your allegations. You certainly don't have facts, just make it up as you go. http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/2009/07/how-much-revenue-did-your-favorite-fbs-school-take-in-in-200708-this-chart-will-tell-you.html Schools that don't bring in much revenue aren't paying their coaches millions.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. That's revenue.

How about profit?

[harkadog]

27. Where are your figures?

You said schools lose money. "Very few schools have football programs that bring in more money than they spend." Your claim. Where are the figures? Oh that's right you just made it up. Like most of your posts.

[Missy Vixen]

29. He doesn't have to produce numbers

He'll just continue arguing till you get sick of it. Believe me.

We all have more important things to do with our time.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. So... after going 0-12 they can afford to spend 2m a year on a coach? nt

[harkadog]

34. I didn't hire the guy.

But yes they can afford him when the revenue and profits from the program remains strong. Many colleges have huge revenue and profits from their programs simply because of tradition no matter what their current records are -- witness Notre Dame.

[Missy Vixen]

35. The football program makes $50 million a year as of 2007

It funds every other sport at the UW.

According to Forbes, it also throws off $19 million in profit, and that was during the Willingham years -- i.e., no wins.

The UW football program will make more money via TV appearances and bowl revenues as the team win-loss record improves.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. So why'd they cut the swim team?

There was a 2.3 million dollar deficit.

crickets.

[harkadog]

40. The only crickets are in your head.

Where are your figures?

Crickets yet again.

[Missy Vixen]

43. I'm still waiting for your numbers

I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a long, long time.

C'mon, Sparky. Let's see some research.

:rofl:

[lumberjack_jeff]

38. Maybe it ought to fund some teachers instead. n/t

[martymar64]

45. Now if they could only plpay worth a shit

Isn't it like a decade since they won the Rose Bowl? No bowl games since then. Pathetic. And I am Husky Alumni. They need to get on the fucking ball and start winning some games next season! This is getting embarrassing.

[depakid]

42. The Dogs (Huskies) haven't exactly been burning up the PAC-10 in recent years...

:evilgrin:

Had a couple of moments last season. Then again, there's the cougs....

[wilt the stilt]

4. Something is seriously wrong

with our education system

[alcina]

5. Who's the opening act?

That's the joke we used to ask at my university, where several of our first-year classes were held in a hall that seated 1500. It actually wasn't that bad. And it was only first-year classes, which are pretty much designed to help you decide whether or not this is what you really want to study for the next four years. My only serious complaint was that there weren't enough left-handed desks. The lectures were as good as lectures in my smaller classes, better in some cases because of the awesome sound system. ;-) The quality of the class really just came down to the quality of the lecturer and TAs. Would it have been nice to have the same 12-student seminars in first year as I had in fourth? Probably. But then I probably wouldn't have been able to afford my degree.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

8. If it's going to be lectures and exams, why not?

As long as many/most colleges and universities stick to this model, there is really little difference between 20 in a room and 700.

Sadly, while "lecture and exam" is the most economically efficient for the college, study after study over decades show that it is a very poor model for learning. Which is part of the reason why our public higher education system is in decline. But the publics are cut past the bone now, with tuition becoming even more important (30 years ago, tuition was only about 30-35% of the operating budget for most publics; now it is typically 60-70%). Easy to see why colleges and universities need to create larger sections. Bad for our children and ultimately our businesses and country.

[alcina]

41. "The most economically efficient"

I think there's an even more economical model, which was attempted at my high school many years ago. A private high school, no less, with a total headcount of roughly 300. About a third of our classes were taught the conventional way; the rest were self-study programs where students got to work at their own pace with little direction. We were given "modules" to read, which sometimes included additional "research" suggestions that we could follow up on ... if we wanted. We were tested by computer -- multiple choice or T/F -- and our final grade was determined by our performance on those tests. There were no teachers as such for these classes, only "proctors" who made sure we didn't cheat at the computers and who were there to answer questions if we were struggling.

Because of this model, and because I was a freakishly disciplined teen, I was able to graduate high school in 3 semesters. There were, however, a few 20-year-old seniors in my graduating class.

On the plus side, my conventional classes there were pretty amazing. My English teacher was a personal acquaintance of Nelson Mandela and introduced me to South African literature and civil rights issues. My social studies teacher was a liberation theologist who had spent years working with the poor in Latin America. The classes were relatively small, which allowed the teachers to actually get to know us. Nonetheless, I'm fairly convinced this still wasn't a good trade-off for the self-study aspect. Students who were struggling with self-study ultimately did not receive enough help from the teachers to compensate for the loss.

A few years after its introduction, the program was canceled and the school was ultimately closed.

But regarding the US education system in general: One thing that has stuck with me all these many years is a discussion I had with my 10th-grade Spanish teacher about her profession. She told me she taught because she loved teaching, not because it paid well. She said she made more money in tips waitressing during summer recess than she made in 9 months of full-time teaching. Even then, I thought it was one of the most unjust and illogical things I'd ever heard.

The people we trust to educate and care for our children are among the lowest compensated in our society. Even at an early age, our kids are entrusted to minimum-wage childcare workers who, in many cases, are barely qualified to care for a plant let alone a child. It completely amazes me that here in Seattle you can pay more for a dogsitter (by a factor of 3-5) than you do for a babysitter.

We set the bar very low.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

50. I agree, if you are looking at society's needs ...

... I was not precise enough and apologize for that.

When I wrote "most economically efficient" I meant for the institution, not what benefits society as a whole. And I believe institutions should not be pushed into this kind of thinking, that they should be able to offer the type of teaching models you wrote about because we *know* the "lecture and exam" model can be improved upon but *we* have to give schools more to do it. And in the long run, the result will be a better-educated, more-skilled, happier, more-informed population who will also be more productive (and happy) in their working careers (and therefore benefit society with better advances in all fields, higher GDP, more choices and even more tax revenue to keep the cycle going).

Like you, I believe we set the bar very low. And I believe a low bar keeps certain people in power in this country. And I certainly don't think that is a coincidence.

[bluestateguy]

10. For an intro class at a big university that is not uncommon

As long as there are enough TA's to accommodate the students and do the grading, this is not necessarily even a bad thing. You don't go to a big school to get a lot of hand holding, individual attention and nurturing, at least not in an intro course.

[scribble]

11. Why? ... Because they Can

This is not a new problem with the University of Washington (UW).

The UW has offered many huge Freshman/Sophomore intro classes over the years. I attended an Intro to Psychology class that had 1200 students. They did not organize student study groups. They scheduled no instructor-led subsections to answer questions. They had no textbook or reading list. They had ONE test. It was the final. It was a true/false exam.

I also attended Intro to Economics; American Government and Introduction to Sociology classes that were also well over 500 students, offered no syllabi or office hours and scheduled only a minimal final exam. It's a disgrace.

The University of Washington consistently provides the very worst undergraduate educational experience of any Pac 10 University. No other Pac 10 school even comes close.

The University of Washington owns most of downtown Seattle and collects tens' of millions of dollars in rent every month, so they have plenty of money. Many Departments have excellent Doctoral candidates, so it isn't a lack of instructors. They have a large Administrative staff, so it isn't a lack of administrative oversight. They have a large campus, so it isn't a lack of classrooms.

They provide a terrible undergraduate educational experience -- because they can.



sc

[Missy Vixen]

54. That's interesting

>The University of Washington consistently provides the very worst undergraduate educational experience of any Pac 10 University. No other Pac 10 school even comes close.<

The UW has consistently been on top 20 lists of superior value for a smaller tuition bite.

Then again, I'll bet you went to WSU or Western, didn't you?

:woohoo:

[BadgerKid]

12. Wait until they go to online courses.

It's being tried elsewhere. It is contrary to the traditional model of having educators and students face-to-face.

[divineorder]

18. I've had online classes.

At least there are discussion boards and you can e-mail the professor. In addition, the classes can be spread out around the clock much more readily-10 classes of 70 per chat room beats an auditorium where you could barely hear or see the professor.

[BadgerKid]

19. A good experience, then?

Online learning stands to level the playing field in terms of accessibility/auditorium logistics and student biorhythms.

On a different note, whether online courses reduce the need for as many graduate student teaching assistants in the sciences, I am not sure.

[Luciferous]

24. I also had good experiences with online classes. You are actually

required to participate in class discussions and the classes are smaller- mine had anywhere from 12-20 students. I think this provides a much better learning experience than being crammed into a class with 700 students.

[Odin2005]

32. But it gives the technophobes the vapors, can't have that.

As technology gets more developed the "lack of face-to-face contact" issues will disappear. Unfortunately the technophobes don't get what "virtual reality" means.

[JCMach1]

57. I would agree. The professor should just tape the lectures and put them on the screen

for all it matters in a large auditorium environment.

[Odin2005]

31. I like online classes. Screw "traditional methods".

[SomeGuyInEagan]

49. Good teaching principles transend mode ... well-designed online courses ...

... can be every bit as engaging, effective and vital and well-designed face-to-face courses.

Similarly, an un-engaging, boring lecture and exam based course is an un-engaging, boring lecture and exam course, whether face-to-face with blue books or streaming video and proctored exams. And from my experience, many of the faculty who attack online learning and define it with a broad brush as something inferior to face-to-face instruction are faculty who use the "lecture and exam" model ... with little or no engagement with students and no higher learning taking place, only memorization and assessing memorization.

That said, U of Washington is an R1 university. At R1 universities, research rules and teaching takes a back seat (or rides on the bumper). There is only so much time in the day and when the institution, the college and the department all tell you to research, research, research and teach but don't let teaching get in the way of research ... oh, and your job security rides on research ... guess what faculty chose to focus on. Even those faculty who may want to be a good or great teacher is swimming upriver much of the time at an R1 school (or at schools where the administration thinks they should be more research-oriented ... and why not, state legislature like research headlines over thoughtful teaching which produces thoughtful, productive graduates). Which is why an R1 institution *may* not be the best place for an undergraduate degree (but because of the research, can and typically are great places for graduate and professional degrees).

[closeupready]

39. Is this all that different from what, for example, Big Ten schools do?

seems to me that's pretty much par for the course at a big state school.

[fascisthunter]

44. the right wing dream: a Third World USA

congrats

[anonymous171]

46. I am so glad that I am not going to into the Natural Sciences.

[Bill McBlueState]

47. then the only science classes you take will probably be huge lectures

I was a physics major; there were two of us in E&M II.

[anonymous171]

48. Goddammit. nt

[Gecko6400]

55. I taught large

( not this large) introductory Physics classes at a sizable, mid-western, university for about 10 years. I came to the conclusion that I was not teaching, but performing.

[and-justice-for-all]

56. Those who are cutting Education budgets want that system to fail..

not just limp, but to die. They want all education to be done in the private (religious) for profit sector, the funding for education would them be eliminated and sent to other sectors, like the pentagon and other useless places. Indiana 'Governor' Mitch Daniels has dealt the Indiana Education sysytem a serious blow by cutting the education budget..Fucker!

Cutting education funding is stepping on the spin of society, with out a properly educated populace, all you end up with is a society of idiots.