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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 03:59 PM
Original message
Americas bloc excluding US and Canada is proposed
Source: BBC

Latin American and Caribbean nations have agreed to set up a new regional body without the US and Canada, Mexican President Felipe Calderon has said.

The new bloc would be an alternative to the Organisation of American States (OAS), the main forum for regional affairs in the past 50 years. The OAS has been dogged by rifts between some Latin American members and the US over economic policy and trade. It has also been criticised as promoting US interests over those of other members.

It "must as a priority push for regional integration... and promote the regional agenda in global meetings," Mr Calderon told the summit, which includes leaders and representatives from 32 countries. Cuban President Raul Castro was quick to applaud Mr Calderon's announcement as a historic move toward "the constitution of a purely Latin American and Caribbean regional organisation".

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez earlier expressed his support for the proposal, citing it as a move away from US "colonising" of the region. A US State Department official said he did not see the new body as replacing the OAS. On Monday, Bolivian President Evo Morales proposed that it begin operating in July 2011 with a summit hosted by Venezuela.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8531266.stm
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Perhaps Calderon and buddies
could work out some way to improve the standard of living in their countries to the point where people don't have to abandon their families to work off the books in other countries.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's exactly what they're doing by reducing their vulnerability to venture vultures
from the United States and Canada.
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I seriously doubt Calderon
has any intention whatsoever of reducing his dependancy on the United States. Calderon and cronies depend on foreign companies using his people for sweatshop labor.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Calderon does but in this group, he's the outlier.
It's a measure of how f#cked we are that he's backing this at all.
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Why do you see it
as us being fucked? I would love to see Latin America take some serious steps to a more independent future and I don't think it would be bad for the US or Canada to have it happen.

Personally I'm not betting on much of anything coming from this. The personalities involved do not, in my mind, lend themselves to a cooperative venture like this.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. The United States and Canada do not want that region to be "independent".
Edited on Tue Feb-23-10 04:39 PM by EFerrari
That's why they attack Chavez and that's why we sent so many troops to Haiti. That's why the new bases in Colombia and Panama. That's why the Obama administration only pretended to object to the coup in Honduras that couldn't have gone forward without help from D.C.

BushCo neglected Latin America, and in that interval without interference, a big wave of democracy and unity swept over Latin America. By the time BushCo noticed, it was probably too late. Their ham handed effort to oust Chavez failed spectacularly and they misjudged Lula -- taking him for a right wing sellout in moderate drag, which he is not. In fact, one of his very best friends in the region is -- Chavez. They play Good/Bad Cop.

There has never been so much unity in the region in my lifetime and I'm 54. BushCo's obsession with the Middle East cost them Latin America.

/oops
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. And the World Is a Better Place Therefore
Lucky South and Central America (with the exceptions of Haiti and Colombia) to be ignored by the Bushwhacker....

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. And Peru, and Mexico who unfortunately still shares a border.
Edited on Tue Feb-23-10 05:30 PM by EFerrari
We live in interesting times.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. you really do have a very simplistic view of the world.
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Socal31 Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Yes, this is a major step forward in the lives of every poor Latino.
.....
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It could be. Imho, Calderon is going along to get along.
But even that counts, doesn't it? :)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. and we all know there are none of those in Mexico and SA
Who's Carlos Slim, anyway?
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. That's the point
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. There was a hope for a while that Obama would reverse NAFTA.
It looks like a consensus has been reached that it's not going to happen and the region is taking the measures it can take to counter it.
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I'll believe it when I see it
I don't think Calderon, for one, has any intention or desire to "disrupt" his ties with US industry.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. The objectives of the new organization are to make decision without US intervention
not to destroy commerce and other economic functions.
Latin American countries feel the desire to act as independent nations.
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yava Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Its the concept and the simulated preception that is crumbling
Rio is futher from D.C. than D.C. is from Brussels.
Santiago de Chile is probably further from D.C. than D.C. from Tokyo or Beijing.

The whole idea of the Americas or the New World as a political sphere is a 20th century neocolonial invention. It is just falling apart. But Mexico is on the US border and has a chance to be on both sides of the fence.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. It's healthy for the region to act freely and support each other
Edited on Tue Feb-23-10 11:12 PM by AlphaCentauri
since the US had shown support to keep a britain colony in the Americas
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Calderon is an interesting case study on the sovereignty issue.
And that is what this is all about--the sovereignty of Latin American countries and their right to make their own decisions on economic and other policy (on Cuba, for instance, where they almost all differ from the U.S., including Mexico which recognized the Castro government long ago).

I caught an interesting news bit about Calderon that wasn't widely reported (or reported at all) here. Back in March 2006, Bush Jr did a "tour" of selected Latin American countries and when he arrived in Mexico, Calderon's welcoming speech included a public lecture of Bush on the sovereignty of Latin American countries, and he cited Venezuela as an example. Frankly, I was floored. It told me a number of things--that the plot that we had heard bits and pieces of, to try another coup in Venezuela around the 2006 election--which included a false poll by Mark Penn's polling firm (a top Clinton adviser), which was to be the trigger for rightwing riots when Chavez won--that this plot was probably being talked about by Latin American leaders. (Chavez won big, in a transparent election system, and the plot disintegrated.) Penn & Schoen got exposed, and Penn had to go straighten things out and shed his partner. There was also an assassination plot out of Colombia, but more than likely planned in Washington, against Chavez, during this period. (The Colombian paramilitaries were caught in Venezuela.) I don't think Calderon was talking about the 2002 coup attempt. I think he was talking about something that had just happened or been exposed--fresh on his mind. Really, I was astounded that a rightwing prez of Mexico, whom the Bushwhacks probably helped to steal that very close election--more than likely in exchange for his promise to privatize Mexico's oil (which he hasn't been able to do)--would say this to Bush in public.

Then another thing came up, a bit later. The Bushwhacks larded Mexico with some multi-billion dollar U.S. 'war on drugs' boondoggle, and Calderon made a point of including Mexican sovereignty over the funds and operations. Basically, he didn't want DEA agents running around Mexico. And when the project became, literally, a "war," and hundreds of people started to get killed, Calderon's head of the anti-drug plan quit, and said that this militarized approach to drug trafficking was a failure. Some elder statesmen then issued a statement calling for the decriminalization of marijuana. In both cases, the initial funding, and the quick recognition of the failure of the U.S. "war on drugs" and departure from U.S. policy, had sovereignty as the issue behind the issue. Indeed, sovereignty is the issue behind the issue on Mexico's oil, which is a protected resource in the Constitution and belongs to the people of Mexico, who are putting up a mighty battle to keep it that way.

I learned a lot following these stories. The issue behind the issue, on a lot of things related to the U.S., is the years of savage exploitation and insulting domination by the U.S. against Latin American countries. The Reaganites and the Bushwhacks are the worst offenders, but generally U.S. policy has been very, very bad--criminal, murderous, anti-democratic, and furthermore contemptuous. In fact, I think this is the "hook" that Chavez has tried to use to reel in Alvaro Uribe--to get him to be more cooperative on Latin American integration, and to pull him away from U.S. war planners--that, no matter how cozy you think you are with the Big Powers in Washington, they have nothing but contempt for you. You are Latino. They are "yanqis." He has tried to appeal to Uribe's Latin American pride--probably a lost cause, but I've seen some evidence that that has been Chavez's tack at times--in fact, he did it again, recently, with regard to the U.S./Colombian military agreement, which sells Colombia's sovereignty to the Pentagon. Chavez said that it is a sovereignty issue (and so have others). The agreement not only invites Pentagon occupation of seven military bases in Colombia, and not only grants them use of all civilian airports and other infrastructure, it formalizes total diplomatic immunity for U.S. soldiers and U.S. 'contractors.' So Colombia will have a foreign army, navy and airforce all over the country, with no remedy for Colombians if the Americans start killing Colombians or commit other crimes against them.

In any case, we are not used to this issue--sovereignty--here. It has been deleted from our public discourse by the corpo-fascist press, because, as we know, multinational corporations and war profiteers are the sovereigns here now, and not "the people." Also, the U.S. has never before had a sovereignty problem. We are big. We are well-armed, staggeringly well-armed. We have pretty much called the shots around the world since WW II. So, for instance, an oil corp from France or England couldn't come here and dictate terms to our government for extracting our oil or other resources--unless our government was toadying to them for some reason (as the Bushwhacks were toadying to the UAE sheiks on their purchase of U.S. ports--but you notice the fuss that caused, and they quickly dropped it). But this is how, say, Exxon Mobil has treated Venezuela (until the Chavez government)--they walk in, like "God's gift" to Latin America, and dictate this and dictate that, take all the oil profits and do what they damn please, including vast pollution. Or Chiquita in Honduras. President Zeyala raises the minimum wage, in one of the poorest countries in Latin America, and guess what? Before he knows it, he is kidnapped and put on a plane out of the country, which stops at the U.S. military base in Honduras for refueling. That's what the U.S. thinks of Latin American presidents--disposable, deposable, expendable. And they will probably do something like this--or worse--to Uribe, when he has outlived his usefulness (which may be soon).

Sovereignty is IMPORTANT to Latin American countries, leaders and peoples. They have not had a lot of respect from the U.S., and, with their vast resources, they are finding it much better to be dealt with as equals by the countries and corporations that do have respect. Venezuela just signed big oil deals with eight corporations from as many countries, and only one of them was a U.S. corp. Brazil, Bolivia, Ecuador--all the countries with desired resources--are finding it much more amenable to deal with other countries than the U.S. What a sad irony that Obama promised them "respect," and gave them the Honduran coup instead. (--and promised them "peace," and gave them the U.S./Colombia military agreement; and promised them "cooperation," and they have gotten "divide and conquer" tactics, and bullying and strongarming instead.)

So, they look at Mel Zelaya and say "But for the grace of God"--or but for the grace of Latin American unity--"there go I." No matter who you are. Right. Left. Center. You are nobody in Washington DC.

I think Calderon has some genuine attachment to Mexican sovereignty--despite his obvious corruption and toadying to U.S. corporate rulers and war profiteers. Few people are all black or white. Most are mixed bags of motives and passions. The two things can reside in the same soul. Also, he's under terrific pressure from the Left. They came within a hairsbreadth of winning the last presidential election. And the Leftist legislature has been blockading the oil privatization scheme. Mexicans are very protective of their sovereignty. If nothing else, he has to pretend to be a patriot. But I don't think it's all pretense.

In addition to the sovereignty issue, I think that the awful, illegal, genocidal Iraq War also helped end whatever cache the U.S. had in Latin America. They don't want to be associated with the U.S. on the world scene. They had hoped that things would be different with Obama. But now there is Afghanistan. And I think it's likely that a lot of Latin Americans are saying, "But for the grace of God"--or but for the grace of Latin American unity--"there go we." What's to stop the Pentagon plans for "full spectrum" military activity in Latin America, now that it has such a big foothold in Colombia? What's to stop an oil war in Latin America? What's to stop on-going U.S. psyops, disinformation, dirty tricks, destabilization schemes and USAID funding of rightwing groups (including coup groups who might not restrict their targets to leftists but also to moderate rightists or centrists)? What's to stop the U.S. from repeating Honduras in country after country? (Mel Zelaya was only a moderate reformer!)

There are moral and humanitarian objections to the U.S. wars. But there is also fear. The U.S., under Obama, has changed very little. The mechanisms of oppression and the motives for oppression, against Latin Americans, are still there. Chavez said, of Obama, that he "is the prisoner of the Pentagon," and I think that is not far off the mark. (I would add the prisoner of the DLC and ES&S.) In short, they have no reason to trust the U.S. Nothing much has changed. And I am very, very glad that they recognize this and are proceeding with creation of their unity group.

This will all be blamed on Obama, of course--in the "failure" narrative that the corpo-fascist press is already writing, to accompany Stolen Election Six in 2012. Previous stolen elections: 2000--by the Supreme Court; 2002--at least Georgia U.S. Senate, by Diebold; 2004--Bush-Cheney and senators, by Diebold & Rove; 2006--the (s)election of "Blue Dogs" and Pukes, mostly Diebold's doing; 2008--the (s)election of more "Blue Dogs" and Pukes. Obama I think was actually elected, by a bigger margin than we know. but was also permitted to be elected--had made deals not to be Diebolded. 2012 will likely be stolen, and the culprit will be ES&S, which just bought out Diebold, and now has an 85% monopoly on America's 'TRADE SECRET' voting system. ES&S is worse than Diebold as to far rightwing connections.

Latin American cannot count on "peace, respect and cooperation" from the Obama administration, and they can count even less on whoever the corporate rulers may decide to install here next. They are on their own, and I am glad that they realize it.

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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Third World Rising.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. we brought upon ourselves
the big bully of the north has few friends in the South.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Both of them. Canada had a hand in ousting Aristide and their corporations
are in the process of raping and polluting Latin America, too.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. We must be in very deep financial trouble if Calderon, whose election was stolen for him
by BushCo is backing this. Maybe we should stop building that wall.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
23. Bravo Latin America! Keep the Yankee plutocrats out!
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Your profile says you're a Yankee plutocrat
:shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. No, the profile gives a US location.
:shrug:
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. My income of $10,000/year entitles me to plutocrat status--who knew?
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