Federal Grand Jury Set to Indict John Edwards, Report Claims

[spotbird]

Source: Fox

A federal grand jury is set to indict two-time presidential candidate John Edwards, the National Enquirer reported Wednesday.

Edwards, who admitted in February to fathering a child with former campaign videographer Rielle Hunter, has been under investigation by the feds for possible improper use of campaign funds.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/03/federal-grand-jury-set-indict-john-edwards-report-claims/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+foxnews%252Fpolitics+%2528Text+-+Politics%2529

---

We let Ted Stevens walk, we let the corrupt DOJ US Attorneys keep their jobs. Cheney can admit to treason, but Edwards acts like an asshole and the weight of the government comes down on him. I wouldn't vote for the guy for dog catcher, but the US has some pretty fucked-up priorities.

[hlthe2b]

1. re: "we let Ted walk"... Ted who? for what?

the question ought to be: where's the charges against Rethug Nevada Senator Ensign?

[spotbird]

7. Ted Stevens. nt

[hlthe2b]

11. ahh...forgot about him...

;)

[twitomy]

25. LOL! Ted Stevens greatest contribution to the Congressional Record:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtOoQFa5ug8

Still one of my favorites...

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

28. Ted Stevens WAS indicted

and convicted. But his conviction was thrown out for prosecutorial misconduct.

[dixiegrrrrl]

31. Quite a few big cases were thrown out for the same reason.

Convenient, eh?

Did the prosecutors who "misconducted" get any fall out, I wonder?

[defendandprotect]

96. They were all Bush loyalists . . .

one would think they might have purposefully screwed up?

[dixiegrrrrl]

125. You betcha.

[No Elephants]

164. If the "misconducters" ever did get punished, I never read about it.

Guess you didn't, either.

[karynnj]

57. but the existance of the trial likely cost him his Senate seat

so he didn't get off scotfree.

[Traveling_Home]

109. That WAS the purpose! nt

[No Elephants]

163. Not exactly. Holder DROPPED the charges, citing misconduct, aka, Ted Stevens walked.

Not quite the same as a judge throwing out the case bc the judge found prosecutorial misconduct.

[L. Coyote]

161. "we" being a mouse in handand the writer, plus

a couple of Repubicans disguised as Dems.

[napi21]

2. I honestly can't bbelivsed cam[aign funds to payooff his girlfriend.

He has too much money of his own to do something that stupid.

You're link IS from an unreliable source ya know!

[WriteDown]

4. Yeah, he seems so clever.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[True_Blue]

26. Not putting up for the guy at all, but the way I understand it

Is that Bunny Melon and Fred Baron gave him money/help so he wouldn't have to use campaign funds. Bunny Melon didn't know about the affair, but she didn't like how he was accused of getting a $400 haircut with campaign funds, so she volunteered to give him money for his personal expenses, so he wouldn't have to use campaign funds. Fred Baron knew about the affair and actually gave his home, private plane, and money to use in the cover-up, but I don't think that would be considered campaign contributions either. At least that's the way I understood it.

They might be able to get him for hiring his mistress to do those videos - not sure about that one.

[Edith Ann]

33. Hiring mistress.

I don't think you go to jail for hiring a mistress or the jail would be full of men who do that. It's the over market value of the Vids that might get him in trouble. Also one would hope there are rules against using money that was donated to you to run for office for paid sex. Rules that would prevent you from paying a NYC street w***e for sex. But the one thing that could do it is the 14,000+ his PAC paid to get the extra footage back from RH. (EE demanded it back) The way I understand it is that money was transferred from the actual campaign fund to the Pac for furniture and then a check was issued in the exact amount for the return of the extra film RH shot. The check was probably written to RH or her supposed company. I don't think you can transfer campaign money around like that. It was such as this that put one of our elected officials in jail along with his wife who was the treasure of his campaign.

I also read EE may testify against him. She was involved in getting this extra footage back. If they assign EE a job title in the campaign, that may break spousal privilege. Once you conspire to cover up the affair and get the wife involved the wife is part of the conspiracy.

JE can't win this one. If he divorces EE she can get him. If he doesn't marry RH, she can get him. Although, I think since RH has already testified, spousal privilege doesn't pertain to that testimony.

Anyway, since it was reported that JE hid in the bathroom when caught with Hunter in LA, that makes him pretty much a weak coward. He'll probably cry like a baby during the "purp walk".

[customerserviceguy]

123. There's one way that John Edwards can keep Elizabeth from testifying

If the case is delayed past the point of her death, she won't be on a witness stand. If she gives a sworn affidavit, he might get it thrown out based on his inability to question the witness.

Lawyers are all really, really good at one thing, and that's delaying court proceedings as long as they need to. Usually that costs a lot of money to pay the attorney during the time that delays are sought, but Johnny's got plenty of that, and even if he didn't, he'd go pro se and do that himself.

Does Elizabeth Edwards have a couple of years or so to be able to stick this out? Quite probably not.

[defendandprotect]

94. What videos? Has anyone seen them?

[True_Blue]

108. The missing webisodes are on You Tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDjxDL00mvg

[defendandprotect]

128. Thanks . . . looked at a few ... interesting too look back . . .

Hard not to believe him . . . at times!

[karynnj]

62. There have been prior allegations that that is what they were looking for

in the Raleigh newspaper.

I assume that the reason he did this was that at the time Elizabeth was not aware and checks of that magnitude might have been noticed. (This might call into question Elizabeth Edwards' timeline of when she knew. It always seemed too convenient for them toi have used her cancer's return to leave dramatically with the best wishes of the country and more than enough sympathy to preclude even the NE from continuing to follow them - and before Hunter became pregnant.)

[harkadog]

105. The same unreliable source that said he was cheating on his wife

ya know how that turned out.

[roguevalley]

137. actually, they could get a pulitzer for their reporting this year I am

told. also, rich people didn't get rich by being generous.

[thunder rising]

3. They are still looking for a Democratic penis to convict ... it's been 12 years in the making.

[inna]

5. +1

[WriteDown]

6. Pretty sure you can't use campaign funds to put your baby-momma mistress up. nt

[spotbird]

8. Yeah, but

my point is that we ignore far worse crimes, but this is aggressively pursued? It's just wrong.

[WriteDown]

10. Meh...

I'm happy when any crimes are prosecuted. You are right that we miss a bunch though.

[spotbird]

12. Let's start with the

ones that destroyed our country, like the criminals on wall street. Then the people who turned the government into a Banana Republic, then the public officials who abuse their trust, then move to candidates who overpay their girlfriend consultants.

[ezmerelda39]

15. The only way

to go after the really, really, really Big Offenders of the Rule of Law is attach some sex to it, something really, really, really sensational, something that really, really, really gets under everyones moral fiber, especially if the party in question is a Democrat. You can actually be Impeached for sex, but you will not be held accountable for illegal wars, murder, financial meltdowns, you name it and it's legal. Just ask Newt Gingrich.

[Jefferson23]

39. Yea, but nobody has sex with Cheney..so that's that I guess.

Welcome to DU btw!

[femrap]

50. Then why is Vitter still

in the Senate? A total perv.

[Mithreal]

81. Actually Cheney kept pictures of his heavy petting meetings with Osama

in those man sized safes in the VP's offices. When Secret Service found them on his desk, they torched the place, true story.

[golfguru]

103. "illegal wars, murders"...are always prosecuted if------->

there is EVIDENCE which will hold up in court.
If you have such evidence, even you can bring a suit
in civil court. If there is no concrete evidence the
prosecutors are not going to waste their time on chasing
mirages.

[spotbird]

110. Look at the Madoff AmEx bills

If anyone spent like his family did they'd be in jail like Al Capone, but the bandits are allowed to loot the county.

That is just one small, but flagrant example.

[golfguru]

113. Again, Madoff is in jail because

prosecutors had EVIDENCE which would hold up in court.
No evidence-->no prosecution-->no jail....even if it
is obvious to us it was a crime.

[spotbird]

117. My point, that you ignore,

is that the AmEx bills are EVIDENCE of tax fraud that the government disregards.

There is so much else that is not pursued, but if you say the government has not evidence, you are the final arbitrator.

[golfguru]

134. I can not believe that the government is purposely suppressing

any prosecutions in spite of having the evidence to prosecute.

In your opinion why are they suppressing the AmEx bills tax fraud?
Has AG Holder some secret agenda there?

[spotbird]

151. The AmEx bills are public

they are evidence of embezzelment and tax fraud. Yes, I think the government does not prosecute when there is ample evidence.

Holder is no different than his predecessor, make no mistake about it.

[catgirl]

146. How 'bout lack of WMDs?

We went to war based on those lies.

[defendandprotect]

99. Great post --

:applause:

[liberalhistorian]

29. So, we should let people walk away because others who've

done the same thing or worse walk away? I don't think so. That's not the way it works or should work. Edwards is a crooked sleazebag and should suffer the consequences for it.

And Ted Stevens didn't "walk." He WAS aggressively pursued by the DOJ. The federal prosecutors were the ones who fucked that up. They made some horrendous mistakes that the judge had no choice but to remedy.

[spotbird]

52. Please. nt

[liberalhistorian]

126. Please what?

Please don't tell the truth?

[Dr. Strange]

154. Please don't enforce the law when our side violates it.

I guess.

[spotbird]

155. Please enforce the law

for everyone, not just against one side. What's so hard about that to understand?

We let every fucking Republican crook who raped our whole world off in the name of bipartisan spirit or some such shit, but only when Democrats can't keep it in their pants does the government bother. Don't you think the BushCo crimes were much worse than what is known about Edward's transgressions? Why aren't you outraged about the disparity, rather than just overjoyed that a Democratic minor crook gets his?

[spotbird]

156. Please don 't insult me

with the crap about why Stevens avoided consequences. Please don't pretend not to understand that it is a gross injustice that major crimes which hurt all but the top .01% of Americans were allowed to go unmentioned, much less unpunished. Please don't throw the faux outrage and expect me to believe that there is any justice in this country any more. Just please stop.

[RedCloud]

36. They only pursue cowardly crimes, not murder incorporated.

[emilyg]

70. Both are wrong.

[radhika]

17. Didn't Ensign do that?

Putting his mistress and her son on the RNC campaign payroll, and setting the cuckolded hubby up as a lobbyist?

Is being a campaign videographer that much different?

[spotbird]

21. But it would be

partisan to prosecute that.

[defendandprotect]

102. Great point . . . !!

[Mithreal]

24. Sure you can, if you are a Republican anything is possible.

Steele-ing campaign funds, Michael Steele knows something about that.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/02/07/feds-question-new-rnc-chair-michael-steeles-campaign-finances/

It's not wrong if a Republican does it. Oh wait, you said, baby-momma.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

95. +1000% . . . right, its keeping the sex scandal alive that's important --!!

[TheDebbieDee]

9. I agree about the phucked up priorities. Neocons are still

allowed to walk the streets free after installing an illegitimate president, twice, allowing the country to be attacked on 9/11, unwarranted wire-tapping, using lies to justify a pre-emptive invasion of Iraq, allowing the oil companies to hose the American public on gasoline prices for years without asking any questions, I could go on, but my blood pressure is going up just thinking about it.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Minimus]

86. I will never think of Bush as the good ol days. It is sad that you do!

[Myrina]

14. John Ensign anyone?

Having your parents buy off your mistress and her husband - who just happened to be on your (federal) payroll? WTF??

[spotbird]

16. Or David Vitter

it's illegal to pay a hooker, ask Eliot Spitzer for the details.

[Selena Harris]

38. Speaking of Baby Daddy...I read that

one of David Vitter's "paramours" had provided him with an heir a while back,and is allegedly living in Virginia.

There's a WHOLE lot of " Pamperin' " goin' on,dontcha know?

I will post link if I can find it.

[Selena Harris]

45. Vitter's undeclared little "dividend"

Sen. Vitter has a love child?!-Wonkette - Democratic Underground17 posts - 14 authors - Last post: Feb 6
Vitter's Diaper-Clad Love Child Toddles Among Us--from wonkette. Looks like Louisiana's Greatest Whoremongering Senator David Vitter ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az...all... - Cached

Louisiana rumor: Vitter's "additional" child‎ - Jul 12, 2007

[still_one]

46. Something is definitely rotten in Denmark /nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. It's so true.

A fucking federal grand jury AFTER the guy is already in a crash and burn stage. Wow, you guys are quick. All the shit that's happening around us that needs exposrue and they select something that already has a high profile. Jesus.

[customerserviceguy]

19. This explains why Johnny proposed

Once she's his wife, she can't be compelled to testify against him.

[spotbird]

22. She can testify

to events that took place before the marriage. She can avoid testimony through her absolute right against self incrimination>

[customerserviceguy]

27. I don't think it works that way

I remember a famous case back in Vancouver, WA in the early 1970's, where a man was on trial for sending a bomb to his lover's husband. The husband died, and the only one who really tied the bomber to the bomb was the wife. During a break in the court action, she approached him at the defense table, and were quickly married by a mail-order minister that was also brought in.

At that point, they were legally married, and she could not be compelled to testify against him, so he walked.

[msanthrope]

84. Yes, she can be compelled. n/t

[customerserviceguy]

104. Well, here's what I was able to locate

from Wikipedia:

"The spousal testimonial privilege (a.k.a. "spousal immunity") can be used to prevent any party in a criminal case from calling the defendant's spouse to testify against the defendant about any topic. In federal court as a matter of common law, this privilege attaches to the witness spouse; that is, the defendant's spouse can refuse to testify against the defendant, but the defendant may not prevent his or her spouse from testifying against the defendant.

This privilege does not survive the marriage; that is, after divorce, there is no right to refuse to testify against a defendant ex-spouse. This privilege may be restricted to testimony about events that occurred during the marriage, although in some jurisdictions it may apply to testimony about events occurring prior to the marriage."

While Wikipedia is not a legal textbook, I at least cited something in support of my contention. Perhaps either you or some member of this forum who is a real lawyer can cite what the Federal statutes and case law on this say?

[alp227]

20. Just like Clinton. sigh.

Justice? My donkey!

[FiveGoodMen]

23. And Tom Delay? Still nothing there, huh?

[bc3000]

30. This SOB lied to all of us while attempting to become a candidate who would have been unelectable

I have no sympathy for him. I hope he does jail time.

[Mithreal]

43. Not that I 100% disagree, but my wife is a #%@! McCain and Secessionist Palin sure were "winners."

And for godsakes, did you see who won? "A black guy with a funny name."

Even with all the election rigging and vote stealing, there wasn't a chance in hell a Repuke would win. Just saying.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

61. I agree...what he did was unforgivable

[spotbird]

153. Do you think all

politicians who lie should do jail time?

[onenote]

32. I'm sorry, but you haven't given a reason why edwards shouldn't be indicted

Stevens was indicted. ANd convicted. Yes the conviction was reversed, but the weight of the government did come down on him at least as much as indicting edwards will represent the weight of the government coming down on edwards. And its not as if the weight of the government wasn't brought down on some other repubs (Cunningham, Abramoff and his pals, etc).

Pretty weak defense of edwards who, if the evidence shows that he misappropriated campaign funds (and i don't know if it does or not) ought to face the music for it.

[spotbird]

119. Edwards is a ham sandwich

If the reported facts surrounding the indictment are true, this is political.

[apimomfan2]

34. This insanity is a trick, gimmick, and side show...

I wonder what stuff, that would otherwise be important to our lives, it intended to deflect our focus from?

[leeroysphitz]

35. The Edwards saga is a vortex of failure and disgrace. n\t

[hisownpetard]

37. Personnally, I hope they nail him. He is a morally bankrupt egomaniac who was willing

to risk putting another Republican in the WH rather than admitting his deceit.
His treatment of his wife and family showed he has no respect for anyone other than himself.
His treatment of the country showed that he has no values other than his own gratification.

I want the money back that I donated to his campaign. With interest!
And I hope he gets hammered. What a despicable, hypocritical human being.

[spotbird]

97. He is a Class A jerk

He treated his wife horribly. If there is a hell, there is a place reserved for him. His need for gratification was no different than most people in his position, as evidenced in the many examples in this thread.

Sorry about your money, I want mine back from Edwards and Dodd, but the nation would benefit more from prosecution of crimes that sent us to war unnecessarily or bankrupted the nation.

[TheCowsCameHome]

40. It just goes to show, you can't judge a book by ...

...it's pretty face.

This guy turned out to be ugly in so many ways.

[defendandprotect]

106. Interesting because he was popular in his state for a long time ---

I think --

Whatever, he fooled everyone for a long time --

Including his wife? When did Elizabeth realize he wasn't the man she thought

he was?

And what do he and Eliabeth have left after all of this?

Family in tatters --

Doesn't make any sense at all -- did he suddenly go nuts???

Can any male here explain this???

[saracat]

41. Funny. I googled this NO other media is reporting this. Only FOX.

NE, and bloggers referring back to those.It might be true, but????????? Unrecced for no substantation yet.

[Auggie]

51. And Fox picked it up from the NATIONAL ENQUIRER!!!

[saracat]

53. isn't that a kick in the head? And DU is linking to them.Sigh.

[karynnj]

65. which may get a Pulitzer for all their Edwards coverage

Given that this is anti-climatic do you think they would risk this never before thought possible honor?

[saracat]

142. Why not? So FOX and NE are now credible because of the Edwards story? Says a lot about journalism

Does that mean we should believe the Obama stories too? Three quarters of their stories are fictious.They get one or two right and they are now Pulitzer worthy for a story they "paid" for? Give me a break. They are still tabloid journalists. Look throught the rest of that rag if you dare. Have you listened to FOX on the Death panals just yesterday? Do you still think they are credible??????

[woofless]

42. Sheesh, the FIRST time I ever give my money to a politician,

and it had to be this guy.

[heli]

44. Why is Dick Cheney not in jail?

[saracat]

47. Why do we now allow links to FOX and NE? I thought that was always a no no.

[Mithreal]

54. good question

[harkadog]

112. Yes, NE has been so unreliable on Edwards in the past.

[DonCoquixote]

48. I would sincerely love to cry

As out of all of the Candidates, Edwards was the one that was best equipped for the fight ahead. He had a solid record of hitting the Corporate types in the only place they really hurt, their wallet.

That being said, if there is a Hell, I hope John and his Bimbo have a nice warm place there ready. John knew that the GOP would have simply let this trap spring in 2008, and we would be under McCain.

[karynnj]

68. Edwards did NOTHING in the Senate to fight corporations

He voted for the bankruptcy bill. Now he did fight corporations as a trial lawyer ... and doctors. That is what trial lawyers do and he was a very successful one.

The more I hear of Edwards in 2004 and since then, the only thing he was totally for was John Edwards. I really wish Kerry had insisted on going with his gut reaction and disappointed the media by choosing someone else - even after Edwards came up clean in vetting. Although not as bad as Palin, he was a VP from Hell - who thought he was smarter than Kerry.

[spotbird]

111. So he should be

criminally prosecuted?

[karynnj]

121. For that, of course not - If he broke the law, yes

I do hope that he either did not break the law or it is borderline enough that they fail to bring an indictment. But, if not, no one is above the law and as a lawyer, he knew what he was doing and the probable consequences.

[defendandprotect]

115. Think the whole VP thing is a bad deal . . .especially re assassinations . . .

too much opportunity for "winning" by black op --

And then there was Lieberman -- imagine what a Trojan Horse he would have been!!


FDR/Henry Wallace -- great!!

FDR/Truman -- hmmm.....

IKE/Nixon - mischief

JFK/LBJ -- mischief

Nixon/Agnew and Ford -- mischief -- but then Nixon was also a crook

Ford/Rockefeller -- hmmm...

Reagan/Bush, Sr. -- mischief


Carter's pick was good -- Mondale -- but Carter presidency was so destroyed by CIA

that I doubt anyone would have voted for Mondale!


I think we should do this some other way --

[glinda]

49. so when is any Republican who has done crappy things going to Court or jail?

[Mithreal]

55. Taking over our party will put a lot of things back on the table.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mithreal]

85. You're funny.

We should keep you as a pet.

[karynnj]

56. They did try Stevens and it was problems in how the case was handled

that, while getting him out of the Senate, let him walk. Had he not been indicted and tried, he likely would have won. I agree with you on the corrupt US attorneys. However, if Edwards did illegally divert campaign money to Hunter, he needs to be indicted. That said, Ensign pretty clearly did similar things - his mistress' salary on his campaign jumped when her relationship with him changed.

Now, I hope this is not true, because I would prefer never to hear of Edwards again. I really wish the party and the media would not have hyped him so much in 2004 - and he clearly bought everything they were saying about him. I would guess that Shrum's book is as close as we will get to knowing just how much a problem he was once he was selected.

[Mithreal]

58. Worse problems than anything Don Siegelman faced, obviously.

And Stevens wasn't the only puke to have a corrupted trial.

[karynnj]

69. I do get suspicious as to whether it was corrupted on purpose

Siegelman is nearly the opposite in that there is a case to be made that he was railroaded.

[Mithreal]

76. Same here. A persuasive argument can be made.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

59. I LOATHE that man

[spotbird]

120. So do I,

but it is a separate issue.

[McCamy Taylor]

60. Obama is using the DOJ To go after the competition.

If Hillary stops being SOS, she and Bill will be next.

Holder is Fredo with a different name.

[tabasco]

67. Stupidest post I've read today.

Congrats.

[Mithreal]

78. Should get out more. I mean read more. Might search some of your own too.

:hi:

I took it as humor, got a rise as it may have been intended to do.

[karynnj]

71. Don't be ridiculous - Edwards is not competition

Edwards won exactly one primary in 2 election years. In 2004, he was a media favorite and that continued in 2005 and 2006, until he decided to run as "angry". In 2008, he never even came close to winning a state. In addition, he found that he could not raise the money he did in 2004.

Now after everything, I doubt he could find a city that would elect him mayor is he moved to it. He is beyond over.

If Hillary Clinton were to resign as Secretary of State tomorrow, she would need to almost immediately start the "invisible" primary checking into funding and testing whether she had a shot. This would look beyond tacky as President Obama gave her an incredible opportunity to be SoS. I doubt the result would be anywhere near as close as 2008. Not to mention, I seriously doubt that she wants to go through the rigors of another campaign.

[Mithreal]

79. Bet Edwards wishes he had been a banker now.

jk

[karynnj]

88. Or stayed the trial lawyer that he was

or even stayed as Senator. The sad thing is that if he had been a team player instead of thinking he knew better than the man who had just beaten him soundly in all but 5 states and used his skill to have Kerry's back, as VPs normally do, he could have become VP and this likely would not have happened.

[KoKo]

74. OBAMA is going after his OWN DEMS! and NOT Going after WALL ST. CRIMINALITY!

WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIM? DOES HE HAVE TERRIBLE ADVISORS..? OR, IS HE CLUELESS?

I don't know, ANYMORE.. It's all very SAD...

[karynnj]

91. Obama has NOTHING to do with this

I assume that Obama, like most Democrats would prefer that Edwards not be indicted and that he stays out of the public eye altogether. If true, this is the grand jury that took evidence a long time ago.

[Cha]

100. That won't stop the

anti President crowd from clutching straws.

[Cha]

98. How stupid..

Edit~ I see where you may be using sarcasm..if so, my apologies.

[spotbird]

114. It's Bush's DOJ

that is finishing its job on Edwards. The problem is that the political prosecutions from the Bush era continue.

[cali]

136. bwaahahahahaha.

unlike many here, I don't take one word of your absurd faux intellectual turgid, ill written posts seriously, but this although blessedly short, take stupid to new depths, honey. you have to be demented to think that little johnny hedgefund is a threat to Obama. thanks for the laugh.

[unc70]

144. How can you make that claim and not know prosecutor is Repub holdover in NC

We are one of the states dealing with the Rove strategy for the GOP to cry corruption while pointing at Dem office holders. The state elections commission and others have been investigating other things. Even when the corruption involves Repubs, most of the public, the blogs, and the local media barely notice or even misrepresent the political parties involved.

Former Gov Easley (D) seems at high risk after indictment of senior staff and a real mess involving Mrs. Easley gaining a high-salary state job, etc. Some of the other accusations appear to have some basis, too.

There are also a lot of over-hyped allegations. Flights on state or private airplanes have received a lot of attention, probably more than it deserves. It began with allegations that Easley was using the Governor's State-owned plane for personal flights to his home on the coast and for campaign functions. This soon expanded to looking at every detail involving travel by any means of elected officials (nearly all Dems).

NC changes its laws and rules for reporting and accounting for things like a candidate's use of private or corporate planes during the campaign. Afterthe stir over Easley with his campaign having to restate travel expenses and pay a large fine, other officials including current Gov Bev Purdue reexamined their own travel records (including those from periods prior to changes in the regulations) and were investigated by the EC.

In nearly all cases, the campaigns either showed the value of the flight as a donation or as an expense then paying the flight provider. I noticed among Bev Purdue's early flights were ones from Raleigh back to her home in New Bern on a plane owned by her (now ex-)husband's company. Law would have been the same if she had ridden home with him in his company-owned car.

This is rather minor stuff, much like going after State employees for any personal use of their State cell phones; even the IRS doesn't want to track that stuff these days. Dems now seem to be combing through the filings of Repulican candidates; a few days ago unreported helicoptor(!) flights by a Repub candidate were documented using news archival video.

Before WWII, NC had one of the most corrupt and undemocratic state governments in the nation. Gradually, more-Populist candidates such as Gov Kerr Scott gradually gained control of the NC Dem party from the party bosses who had ruled for so long, and cleaned out the worst of the corruption at the state level. While the sheriff and other county officals were usually part of the good-old-boy-network, NC mostly avoided the instituionalized graft and corruption involving things like building permits, fire code inspections, policing, or contracting. It existed, but was not the norm. Amateurs.

Most of the Dem and (few) Repub governors and other top officials in NC were "business progressives" (for education, civil rights, reducing poverty, etc. because it was moral and it was good for business), with a few populists and some from a far right rooted in racism and RW religions and backed by corporate funding and lead by Jesse Helms, first as a Dem then a Repub.

I expect Edwards will be charged with something if there is anything close to probable cause because even a weak case and his acquital would still be of enormous benefit to the Repubs because it would be in the news for months if not years.

As I posted long before any of this was known about the affair, I think it really unfortunate that John went to engineering schools (first, Clemson trying to make the football team, and then NC State in textile engineering while working to support himself), rather than to UNC Chapel Hill and a broader liberal arts education. John was still too insecure in himself, too anxious to prove himself, too respectful and trusting of authority, and relatively naive and inexperienced.

I still believe that their concerns about poverty and health care were genuine and increasing over time, with Elizabeth leading the way. While a good trial lawyer, John was not as politically aware and involved as those of us who came of age influenced by Dr. Frank Graham, Terry Sanford, and Bill Friday - people like Lowenstein, the Wellstones, Holden Thorp, lowly DUers like me, or my classmate Lewis Black.

Anyone who has spent time with Bill Friday has likely had many discussions that began "Well, what are we going to do about poverty?" Not exactly a question, more about ones personal commitment and actions; with the gift of a Carolina education came obligations and responsibilities, to make a difference, to improve the lives of all our citizens, to all those whose taxes had helped make this special place.

In spite of John making some really stupid and unexplainable decisions regarding Hunter, I still believe that he and particularly Elizabeth were truly commited to making a difference in those areas. I think that Elizabeth's commitment to those causes, to those people, was a large part of their decision to remain in the race. Still a bad decision.

From the description in one of the books by the Edwards advisor (and manager of the widely-discussed hedge fund) of Hunter meeting Edwards in the NY hotel bar, the aide and Edwards were experienced with responding to and deflecting the attentions of women coming on to Edwards. This was an obvious and widespread risk to any candidate, especially since the example of Gary Hart. Hunter is described as almost stalking Edwards, her behavior way over the top.

What could possibly have happened that could have caused Edwards to lower his defenses become involved with any woman, much less with Hunter who was described as acting over the top. Maybe I have spent too much time in bars and seen too much crazy behavior, but Hunter's behavior should have been enough warning for any man, certainly for those who had seen "Fatal Attraction". If Hunter did something outrageous like appearing at his hotel room door, that should have been produced an even-stronger warning. "Run while you can."

After the affair began, Edwards and his advisors seemed unaware of their situation, ignorant of Hunter/Druck and her notoriety, prominence, and connections. Everyone seemed incompentent at their jobs, with even a slight chance that the loyalties of one or two lay elsewhere.

None of the major candidates from either party wanted the voters looking at the details of their finances and personal lives. It is easier to deal with issues like expensive haircuts and birth certificates than with affairs, the real sources of income, ties to the S&L scandals, wealthy benefactors, the bipartisan Chicago Way or anthing in Springfield, and all those little inconsistencies in each life story. No exceptions.

What an ugly mess. Even the UNC basketball teams are struggling this year.

[JI7]

162. he already easily beat Edwards before anyone heard of the affair

[crazyjoe]

63. Democrats are really taking a beating lately.

[Mithreal]

66. Almost like they are asking for it.

No worries, corporate sponsors have many of their backs.

[Ruby the Liberal]

64. So, do we get our money back for the stuff we ordered from his campaign

store that they never sent out?

That is still irking me.

[onehandle]

72. Edwards was the #1 choice at DU even after he dropped out before Super Tuesday in 2008.

DU cracks me up.

[pundaint]

90. Sincere people can be fooled by bad people. We were fooled twice in '08

[spotbird]

101. Republicans love their sickos

even after their repeated indiscretions are reveled. At least Edwards doesn't have a future with the Democrats.

[karynnj]

131. At that point, it was only a minority of us who disliked or distrusted Edwards

I disliked him because of things he did in 2004 and lies he told afterward. But, even then, I believed the NE story to not be true.

But, it is silly to fault people who now find him despicable, who then respected and liked him. Since then, we have learned a huge amount. I would be worried if that didn't make an impact.

[KoKo]

73. I know...it seems like an IMBALANCE of Justice for a "PERSONAL MATTER!"

When will that Weeny "Eric Holder" who works for OBAMA ever step up and INVESTIGATE WALL ST?

I cannot STAND John Edwards...but his lapses are NOT ON THE SCALE of WALL STREET CRIMINALITY!

WHERE IS THE REAL JUSTICE? IT's WALL ST and NOT JOHN EDWARDS!

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[and-justice-for-all]

83. Faux News and National Enquirer ???!!

REALLY!!!! :eyes:

[Mithreal]

89. Mods have been alerted but guess those are good sources now.

Certainly were quicker about removing stories like the one about the radiation leaks at a US nuclear plant.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=229587&mesg_id=229587

Got that and other important stories that were well sourced off LBN and damn fast too.

No offense to mods if you all are just running a little behind but come on.

[Psephos]

116. Faux News not, but the Enquirer was first and best on the Edwards story

They practiced actual journalism while the rest of the news industry sat on its hands and looked off into the distance.

Ain't the first time that's happened, either.

[pundaint]

87. Too bad he wasn't a War Criminal, there's no US penalty for that.

[Ozymanithrax]

92. I hear that Edwrds was the secret son of Elvis and an Alien Pod person...

[laughingliberal]

143. That was great!

I'm not sure what sort of threat he poses and to whom but it is apparent someone wants him to stay well destroyed politically.

[karynnj]

160. There is no reason to think that

You have a story that involves sex and betrayal. In addition, Edwards is a person the media created. He did not become a potential President because he had a golden resume that showed major accomplishments. He was a good looking and from 1998 - 2004 a person who the media considered nice and charming. (Walter Shapiro who traveled around Iowa and NH with all the candidates was one of the few that saw the sharp elbows - and the broad smile that dimmed when the camera was off.) When things when bad, they turned and acted as if they never had liked him.

This story is a train wreck and there is nothing in it that wasn't based on something he did or how he treated people. Some - like the argument that he used his UNC position mainly to create a 2008 platform were obvious as he did it in - at least by 2006. The campaign finance charge, if true, it tremendously bad judgment. He should have used some of his own money - he had more than enough.

[defendandprotect]

93. Absolutely agree . . . but re Edwards . . .

how would campaign funds be handled that Edwards could even get his hands

on it if he wanted to?

Wouldn't there be someone in charge of it that would have to sign off on it?

Of course, Edwards could lie --

but seems to me there should be receipts --

Nixon beat all of those details by simply dealing in millions of dollars of CASH!!

[jonathon]

107. Why is this a featured front page topic in the midst of the culmination of the health care fiasco

John Edwards?

Botton of general discussion

We have two wars, a economy on the razor's edge, the culmination of the health care reform fiascon, and a thousand other crisis. Why is this at the top?

Sensationalistic.

[defendandprotect]

118. Maybe because it's a good reminder of how deceptive politicians can be -- ???

[jonathon]

132. Uhm. Isn't President Obama's actions every single day proof enough of that?

[defendandprotect]

133. Yup . . . IMO . . . and I'm thinking of 2012 . . .

[Mithreal]

138. .

[Bozita]

122. Former Edwards donor here. Gotta say the banksters took me for a lot more than Edwards.

A whole lot fucking more!

[spotbird]

127. Bingo

Edwards would have been no different than what we have now, except that he would have the sex scandal to district.

[Mithreal]

139. +1

[RollWithIt]

124. Since I actually contributed to him multiple times... if he used campaign funds to deceive...

Then the indictment is more than warranted. Basically it's like I have $1400 so he could keep his mistress in seclusion.

[spotbird]

129. Life's a bitch

I contributed to him as well, but the prosecution of minor crimes should be treated as less serious than the prosecution of catastrophic crimes. Until that's done governmental actions like this will be viewed cynically, to say the least.

[Billsmile]

130. This Is What He Gets!!!

...for his 36 ideas to strengthen the middle class.

This ample example should keep non-corporatist sympathizers in their place!

Love, Satan

[Mithreal]

141. +1 well said

not sure it is true but agree with the sentiment

[karynnj]

149. No, this is what he might get if he broke the law

It is not the platform he created because he saw that was where there was an opening to win, given that Hillary was likely to have a firm hold on the center of the party.

NO ONE in authority is afraid of John Edwards as a political figure. He, by his own actions, has made himself completely unlikable. This is not political persecution.

If he did not illegally use campaign funds, and he is not even indicted, much less convicted at this point, he will very likely either not be charged or found innocent.

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mithreal]

140. Stop that bullshit. Can't say what I think about people who post that.

Now that they have the means to do so, the moderators are doing their part by tightening civility enforcement a bit. Some behaviors that have been common in the past are now more likely to get your post deleted. One such behavior is the use of unflattering names to refer to groups of DUers. This has had a particularly corrosive effect on discussions of Present Obama's legislative agenda, where it has become common to refer to people as "Obama apologists," "Obama haters," and the like. This type of name-calling is both inflammatory and unnecessary. Instead, use more respectful and specific phrasing like "Obama's critics" or "Obama's defenders" (Or better yet, "critics of President Obama's ___________ proposal" or "supporters of President Obama's ___________ proposal").

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Skinner/347

[catgirl]

145. Vitter walked, but war was declared on Spitzer

Not saying Spitzer should have stayed, but Vitter should have been ousted. They did the
same thing, except Vitter wore diapers.

Repugs look the other way when it's their own, but attack mercilessly when it's a Dem.
Remember the bathroom guy?

[Freddie Stubbs]

147. Should there be a five year morarouim on the prosecution of political corruption because of Stevens?

Should they all get a free pass?

[gorekerrydreamticket]

148. Whatever....move along, nothing to see here.....n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

150. Look whatever you want to say about priorities. Edwards is a SOCIOPATH. No sympathy from me.

I agree that Cheney needs to hang from the highest gallows at the Hague, but that doesn't have anything to do with Edwards. Edwards, through his pathological sociopathy, almost brought down the whole party. This is a guy after the Iowa primaries that we were thinking had a decent chance at the WH. Imagine what would have happened if he had become the party's candidate for the general election! No sympathy.

He's a narcissistic sociopath who was drawn in by a histronic borderline female.

J

[spotbird]

152. "pathological sociopathy,"

is redundant. My point is that the measure the government uses to select cases for prosecution is fucked up. Edwards lost, he didn't almost do anything. Had he won, which he wasn't close to doing, it would have been a problem. Either way, that part of what he did isn't criminal.

[NoodleyAppendage]

157. Criminal versus Unethical. Politicians should be neither. n/t

J

[NoodleyAppendage]

158. ...and no, "pathological sociopathy" is not redundant. 1st term denotes severity, 2nd typology. n/t

J

[spotbird]

159. Now you're trying to be funny.

I hope.