Turkey, on Edge, Watches U.S. Vote on Armenia

[bemildred]

Source: WSJ

ISTANBUL—A U.S. congressional vote on how to define the 1915 slaughter of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, expected Thursday, is turning into a game of brinksmanship between the White House and Ankara.

In previous years, Congress has attempted to pass a resolution to recognize the Armenian events as genocide. Such a resolution would inflame Turkey and has brought vows from past U.S. administrations that they would block the bill, a nod to Turkey's role as a key ally of Washington in the Middle East.

This year, in a shift of U.S. position, the Obama administration isn't lobbying publicly to block the resolution, say officials and lobbyists involved in the issue. That fact has triggered hopes among Armenians who have long lobbied foreign governments for recognition of the killings as genocide—and raised alarm in Turkey at the prospect that the country's ally might rule against it on a neuralgic issue of history and identity.

On Thursday, at least one Turkish national TV channel, NTV, plans to air the U.S. vote live; others are expected to do likewise. Two delegations of Turkish lawmakers have been in Washington this week, lobbying the committee to block the move.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541304575099843692377622.html

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Hmmm, let's see, who can we alienate next?

[Posteritatis]

1. "Alienate" my ass, that spade's long overdue for being called a spade

Alienating holocaust deniers of all stripes is a good thing.

[Psephos]

2. There isn't enough tension in the world, so we have to go scare some up. n/t

[HeresyLives]

3. Why is the US voting on it at all??

Does Turkey get to vote on American slavery, or the Indians killed or My Lai?

Isn't it time to leave all these old grudges behind?

It happened, it can't be changed, and at some point you just have to let it go.

[bemildred]

4. Well, that was my question.

I thought we were trying to broker some sort of reconciliation between Turkey and Armenia. I mean, I'm not taking a side on what the Armenian - ummm, let's call it attempted ethnic cleansing, that's hard to dispute - on what it ought to be called, I just don't think that it's likely to improve things much now. Getting into arguments about what names to call your interlocutors is almost always unproductive in diplomatic efforts.

[HeresyLives]

7. I agree, pointless and unproductive.

People in a lot of countries carry on grudges and vendettas for centuries, so I don't think it's wise to encourage that, especially if you're trying for peace.

[No Elephants]

15. Respectfully, "ethnic cleansing," like "extermination," is a horrible term.

These are terms made up by mass murders to make what they do seem beneficial, even necessary, rather than heinous. People are neither pests nor dirt of which the earth ridding. Let's not refer to killing them as though it were a matter of infestation control or hygiene.

[bemildred]

21. They are not the same.

I don't disagree with you, as far as I can see, but one must still make distinctions. Just because this and that are both evil, one ought not pretend they are the same unless they really are the same.

[No Elephants]

16. The Armenian Americans' lobby is bigger than the Native American Turks' or Vietnamese Turks' lobby?

If Turkish citizens were putting pressure on the Turkish government to call what we did to Native Americans a genocide, and a lot of Native Americans voted in Turkey, we might be seeing something.

This is very obviously a sore spot with Armenian Americans and I imagine that they will continue to lobby their representatives in the U.S. about it for as long as it takes to get something done, or until no one any longer feels any connection to ancestors who died in the 1915 slaughter.

[Omerrrta]

5. this was one of obamas campaign promises...

link:

http://www.anca.org/press_releases/press_releases.php?prid=1365


I remember some Armenian guy got really pissed off and left DU because it looked like obama wasnt gonna do it...meaning he lied about it.

[Posteritatis]

6. Glad that seems not to be the case; recognizing this for what it is is overdue

Of course, the US could stand to change its policy of refusing to recognize ongoing ones until the dust settled, but it's something anyway.

[DissedByBush]

12. And he already blew it

He was in Turkey talking about the genocide but was very careful not to use that one magic word the entire time.

He can easily redeem himself by working to get this passed and signing it.

I'm holding out hope for some cajones.

[sandnsea]

8. We should pull that tooth

Make the vote, then start the healing. This has gone on way too long. The Armenians deserve better than this.

[Posteritatis]

9. That's a good way of putting it. (nt)

[customerserviceguy]

10. If we pull the tooth

will it bite us in the ass?

In other words, what would be the worst possible consequences of doing this? Another Muslim country that hates us? Take a number.

[sandnsea]

11. I really don't think so

I think Turkey is stronger than that and don't have the extremes in their culture the way the Arab states have. I think if it were done diplomatically, with just the right process and wording, we could get this behind us. I think the more of these thorny issues are resolved, the better chance for eventual peace. We can't keep kicking it all down the road.

[Wilms]

13. Israel refuses to recognize the genocide of Armenians.

Amazingly.

That alone could be a reason US won't either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_the_Armenian_Genocide

[Uncle Joe]

17. That's ironic, I thought Hitler was inspired to commit the Holocaust because a blind eye

was turned toward the Armenian Genocide and because he perceived it as being an effective way to eliminate a minority population?

[Dramarama]

14. Just do it

[armodem08]

18. Genocide is the only appropriate word.

"International bodies that recognise the Armenian Genocide include the European Parliament, the Council of Europe, the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, the World Council of Churches and the Permanent Peoples' Tribunal. The International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS), has recognised the 1915 genocide in three different resolutions, the latest (October 5, 2007) extending the recognition to, in addition to Armenians, also inlcude the Assyrians/Syrians and Anatolian and Pontic Greeks among the affected minorities:

WHEREAS the denial of genocide is widely recognized as the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides;
WHEREAS the Ottoman genocide against minority populations during and following the First World War is usually depicted as a genocide against Armenians alone, with little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire;

BE IT RESOLVED that it is the conviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between 1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontian and Anatolian Greeks.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Association calls upon the government of Turkey to acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue a formal apology, and to take prompt and meaningful steps toward restitution.<91>"


Enough said.

[harun]

19. So call it that yourself if you want. It isn't Congress's F'n job to do that.

[boppers]

20. At what point is thread-spam and astroturfing taken care of?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4293749
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x209268

Spamming sucks.