EU considers general carbon tax

[pampango]

Source: BBC

The European Commission is planning an EU-wide minimum tax on carbon as part of the EU's green energy agenda - but the UK opposes such a move. The minimum tax would apply to fuel, natural gas and coal.

Carbon taxes already exist in EU members Sweden, Finland and Denmark. In France the idea is being hotly debated.

In Brussels earlier this week, Commissioner Semeta said the adoption of carbon taxes "on a larger, European scale seems desirable, as they would undoubtedly encourage innovation to strengthen energy efficiency and environmental protection".

A new carbon tax that was supposed to go into effect in France at New Year was struck down, in a blow to President Nicolas Sarkozy. France's Constitutional Council, a legal compliance watchdog, said there were too many exemptions for polluters in the tax plan.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8552604.stm

[WriteDown]

1. And this would predominantly hurt the poor. nt

[wuushew]

2. In your opinon is any pollution control or regulation that raises prices exceptable?

[WriteDown]

3. Pollution, yes. Carbon, no. Especially when it affects the poor....

disproportionately.

[PreacherCasey]

5. I agree. And labelling carbon as a pollutant means human beings literally exhale pollution.

[Oregone]

7. Does it actually deter consumption?

You said "pollution control" after all.

[wuushew]

8. I don't understand your question

[Oregone]

9. Does taxing carbon actually lead to reduce carbon emissions?

Or are the costs merely pasted onto the consumers, thus thwarting market driven innovation.

[wuushew]

10. How is innovation being thwarted?

If 1 kilowatt hour of electricity generates lets say 1 kilogram of CO2, adding $3 dollars to a metric ton of CO2 is at best going to raise my electric rate 2-3 cents per kilowatt hour.

I am not going to take fewer or colder temperature showers from such a rate increase. The electrical utilities however would be greatly motivated to produce electricity in a more carbon efficient manner.

The market doesn't solve squat left to its own devices or time frame. You think Detroit would push for greater efficiency absent high gas prices? The government's relation to energy policy accelerates needed changes that must be undertaken regardless. Time to get ahead of crisises instead of reacting to them.

[Oregone]

11. If the consumer absorbs the tax, diminished profits cannot incentivizes the market

If the consumer does not significantly reduce consumption, it doesn't actually cause anything to happen (other than cause their tax rate goes up).

Just saying.

I have a carbon tax on my gas, but its not going to make me drive any less. I also have it on my electricity, but I'm not going to go all night in the dark.

[wuushew]

12. That doesn't make any sense

if you could completely pass additional costs along then your profits would remain unchanged. However, if you undertake efficiency gains then your potential profit could be much greater as the new cost of production has a larger spread from the market price charged the consumer.

With sufficient competition the overall market rate would drop or it could be held constant with the rate at which efficiency gains become technologically feasible.


Tinkering/regulating such market forces is very desirable, I am sorry you don't agree.

[Oregone]

15. "if you undertake efficiency gains then your potential profit could be much greater"

With or without a tax, this rule holds true. So again, what does the tax really bring to the situation other than a burden that private industry can pass straight to the consumer?

I honestly just do not think a carbon tax has anything to do with "regulating". Id rather see a finite cap mechanism without fraudulent offset available for purchase. Allowing infinite tax emmissions may not control pollution at all.

[pampango]

16. It sounds like you're saying that we shouldn't tax corporations because they just pass the tax

on to consumers anyway. Am I understanding you right? And is this just true with carbon taxes or any taxes at all?

[Oregone]

17. No, rather, Im doubting its ability to curb emissions

Its clear Ive been talking about the efficiency of the mechanism all along here, which taxes an infinite amount and sets no ceilings for pollution.

[dipsydoodle]

6. I agree with you

:thumbsup:

[fascisthunter]

4. we should do this here

[Ter]

14. No we shouldn't

Taxes are for the rich.

[Ter]

13. Uh oh...

Conspiracy theorists will eat this up.

[unabelladonna]

18. taxes on consumption are regressive

it is an utterly insane idea in this economy.

[Odin2005]

19. K&R