Officers: Pakistan arrests American-born al-Qaida

[pinto]

Source: AP (via Yahoo News)

By ASHRAF KHAN, Associated Press Writer Ashraf Khan, Associated Press Writer – 14 mins ago
KARACHI, Pakistan – The American-born spokesman for al-Qaida has been arrested by Pakistani intelligence officers in the southern city of Karachi, two officers and a government official said Sunday, the same day Adam Gadahn appeared in a video calling for Muslim violence.

The arrest of Gadahn is a major victory in the U.S.-led battle against al-Qaida and will be taken as a sign that Pakistan is cooperating more fully with Washington. It follows the recent detentions of several Afghan Taliban commanders in Karachi.

Gadahn — who has often appeared in al-Qaida videos — was arrested in the sprawling southern metropolis in recent days, two officers who took part in the operation said. A senior government official also confirmed the arrest.

Associated Press Writers Patrick Quinn and Maamoun Youssef in Cairo and Rick Callahan in Indianapolis contributed to this report.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100307/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_al_qaida_arrest

[tabatha]

1. Put that in your pipe, Liz Cheney, and smoke it.

[activa8tr]

4. Unfortunately, Liz Cheney will NEVER be happy with "libruls"

controlling the government. And somehow Fox News will twist this arrest all around which way to make it look like Obama is "too soft" on terrorism, and leaving it to the Pakistani's to do the work.

[Cha]

2. Adam Gadahn..the one who praises others who

"kill non believers."

[rollin74]

3. outstanding

seems a lot of AQ and Taliban going down lately. nice!

[OnlinePoker]

7. Ever since the top guy got nailed in January.

I bet he is singing like a canary. Americans may not like it, but I bet the Pakistani military isn't playing by human rights rules to get the info out of the guy.

[Yupster]

13. My guess was they got his computer

and have been going right through the list of contacts.

[DesertFlower]

5. great news. nt

[rasputin1952]

6. I had posted in a story about this guy, that he was a coward...

calling for others to die, while he sat in safety...well, now he'll have the chance to defend his positions. How much you want to bet he'll fold like a deck of cheap cards?

He's wanted for treason here in the US, if extradited to the US, (as I suspect will happen), tried and convicted, Justice will be served w/life in prison, no martyrdom in a prison sentence...only shame.

[pinto]

8. If extradited, I assume he'd be tried in the 9th US District Court (Western states)?

Unless there's some other cause for jurisdiction. In any event, would be a timely case for the role of civilian courts in all this stuff.

[Oregone]

9. But police officers aren't supposed to be able to catch terrorist criminals

You need a well-paid military industrial complex and carpet bombs deployed over civilian areas to do this

[Robb]

17. Intelligence officers aren't the same as police officers.

[Oregone]

18. Nor are they the same as soldiers

[Robb]

19. Intelligence officers are part of the well-paid military industrial complex you mentioned.

Cops did not pick this guy up.

[Oregone]

20. Not exactly, and not in every circumstance

The MIC often refers to more than just government entities involved in defense and intelligence; its often a reference for private for-profit contractors that supply arms (and sometimes bodies) for the government and lobby the government to engage in conflicts to increase their own profits.

And I didn't suggest they were beat cops riding around in blues.

Interpol is the type of policing force that could very well be tasked with gathering intelligence and arresting international terrorist members (as they have done).

Treating terrorists like criminals, investigating, and gathering intelligence is a much better approach than past and some current approaches. More often, governments treat terrorists like markers for war zones and try and bomb the shit out of anything that moves. This is a better way to handle the situation, and it proves that mass destruction isn't the ONLY way to handle terrorism (if a way at all).

[Pavulon]

22. NO interpol can not do this. Steal some diamonds in france, yep

these people are military targets and are not afforded the same due process given to the guy who steals dvds from walmart. They can be arrested or killed as the situation determines.

Obviously he will be very unhappy in pakistan.

Intelligence services investigate and carry out actions differently than police, they are free to execute people, like mr hamas, without a trial.

[Oregone]

25. You should email them that they need to dismantle their terrorism task force

Indicate your rank as a two star Armchair General when you do so.

"these people are military targets" ... "They can be arrested or killed as the situation determines"

Thats just a fallacious baseless assertion aimed at undermining the entire rule of law; I guess we can torture them and hold them indefinitely too. Now, I'm not particularly sure if you are referring to the Taliban or Al Queda with that statement, but Pakistan isn't even a war zone (officially). There are a lot of unanswered question about international law and how it applies, but to suggest those questions have been answered 100% satisfactory in this particular situation is just absurd. The only reason ANYONE started playing with legal statuses during the Bush era was to circumvent the rule of law and electrocute the shit out of people, but that charade ought to be over

[Pavulon]

27. Sorry, that shit started when the horse was primary transportation.

was done really by the british in ww2, the OSS turned to the CIA and some people operate in a way where the law does not exist. This is an old game and will continue. It will start right after the NSA goes to court and is subjected to discovery.

So yea some douche in Italy who is of interest to the US will end up in a car trunk and then a c5a. It did not stop with bush, please not fool yourself.

[Robb]

23. If you say so. Yes, "police" can have many meanings.

Whether this arrest "proves" anything is yet to be seen. Hope springs eternal, however.

[Oregone]

26. Carpet bombing civilian populations certainly hasn't proved it can deter terrorism

And being that this person is in actual custody, it seems to bring more credence to the idea that you don't have to blow up cities to stop those who engage in these criminal acts.

But both are still being practiced, and one approach could most certainly nullify the efficiency of the other.

[Pavulon]

28. Carpet bombing is done with b52's dropping 70'000 lb sticks

that has not been done in Afghanistan and the last time it was used was in GW1. Hopefully our little buddy will puke information and then hang in pakistan. He should never set foot back here, let him die in a shitty pakistani jail or swing. fuck him, you know, legally.

[Oregone]

31. Ah, right, excuse me, Cluster Bombs is where we are now...

The deployment of indiscriminate bombing has changed a bit...but "smart" are they not.

Just ask the Afghan kids that thought the bright little unexploded ones might be toys.

[Pavulon]

32. Comes with the territory. Civilians die in war. Once the war stops

no more dead civilians. Pretty much the way that works.

[Oregone]

34. Yeah, and its awfully shitty too in this scenario

Because to suggest a war is necessary, despite the deaths that would outnumber those if a war was not pursued, is to suggests that some lives are worth more than others.

That is really the bottom line. Some wouldn't blink an eye hearing about a wedding party being bombed in Afghanistan (or many by this time), but would demand a 24/7 local news media feed if a terrorist bombed a wedding in Sacramento (unfortunately, someone has made an argument that if civilians aren't dying there, they will here). Of course people are concerned about things that feel more local, but they are missing the larger picture about devaluing life of another culture/people.

[Pavulon]

36. That is war, they blew up shit here, so we fuck them up there. 2 branches

can stop this and they have not. During war people die, many times the wrong people die. That is just the way it is and has been and will be in the future. All life is equally worthless in war. That is its nature.

[Oregone]

37. "They"?

Tee hee. Thats fucking Kindergarten shit.

An international crime ring committed a crime, so we are fighting the Taliban and occupying Afghanistan? This is all Bush Speak and only makes sense if you are in elementary school and My Pet Goat is your reading curriculum

[Pavulon]

40. "They" are there. Hence why our spec forces watched

them loaded onto intermodal containers when this started before the first regular army set foot on the ground. Remind me who is FUNDING and ORDERING the war to continue. Which two branches, which party controls them.

Why make shit really complex when it is stark simple.

[Oregone]

41. "Why make shit really complex when it is stark simple"

Because sometimes saying things like "smoke em out", "if you aint with us, you're against us", "evil doers", "support the troops", and "freedom aint eva free" are just simple marketing slogan to sell a complex war to idiots. The Democrats are funding and ordering the war to continue, but that doesn't make it the correct course of action whatsoever. If you want to live in a black and white world where the bad guys need to be hung and blown up and your colors never run, then thats fine. Just don't pretend you have some simple answer to why your tax dollars are paying for a global military conflict.

[Pavulon]

42. Same reason they did in Rome..

to further national interest. Iraq did not accomplish that, TBD on Afghanistan. The historical backing for this stuff is extensive and generally not all that complex. Barring WW1 I cant really think of a war that was all that complicated.

[Oregone]

43. The problem is that corporatism muddles that explanation

Private corporations can lobby a government into a war that promotes their interests, rather than the national interests. The more wealth and power that gets dis-proportionally distributed to the few, the more of these instances you will see.

That aside, 'national interests' is a bit of an arbitrary term too, so its always more complex if you were to examine what those interests are and ask a larger philosophical question of if its 'worth it' according to some other standard. If such interests are to secure resources to maintain a specific method of living and development, one must ask if that standard of living is universally the right one and worth the sacrifice.

You know...no...its just never that simple. I understand you are trying to boil it down, but arbitrary interests are not universally true interests to some objective law. Debates should ensue over the worth of a war (according to the reasons for them), but often, interests are never fully revealed and people are merely manipulated into supporting the efforts.

[bighart]

44. Shouldn't the description be more like

an international crime ring of religious zealots supported, encouraged and harbored by the government of Afghanistan, you know just for accuracy?

[Oregone]

47. They also lived in and received training in the United States

There are a shit load of countries the US could be invading and occupying right now


The reality is that my response was directed at the person who was purposely blurring the lines between organizations (Al Queda & Taliban) and mixing it with tragedy to justify a conventional war and occupation of a foreign country. Its a pretty intellectual dishonest thing that we normally just see Rudy Guiliani doing

[bighart]

48. I agree that war sucks and civillian causalties are a big reason why.

[Pavulon]

49. NO you misunderstand.

I justify open war against those who fund this and make it happen. I dont care where they are, if some banker in zurich is making this happen he should end up face down in a ditch. As long as they are not IN THE US the people who train, fund, and plan attacks against the US should be killed where ever and whenever possible. The war is in Sudan, UAE, Quatar, Saudi, Kuwait, etc. Those people's death is more important than some goat herder who has nothing to do except fight.

Cutting the grass in Afghanistan is not all that productive.

[Oregone]

50. And how can anyone ever know who is guilty if everyone just runs around killing everyone?

And if the consquences of such recklessness are civilian casualties, why are you any better than the terrorists?

[Pavulon]

51. Never claimed to be "better". They have their rules. They intentionally kill thousands

people who fund plan and execute these activities in Bali, Africa, NY, and dozens of other places arent fucking around. American Interests are served if these people are compelled to speak (not tortured) and if needed killed to prevent their actions. Buy them, sell them, kill them. That is the reality of the world and will continue to happen. These people are blurring the lines between civilian and soldier.

I would assume after killing 7 cia agents that the value of their lives fell considerably.

There were entire divisions in the pacific theatre that did not take Japanese prisoners. This is not a new thing.

Hey I am sure to you think Blackwater are just civilians right, so just think of these guys like the enemy blackwater. There, is it a little easier now.

[Oregone]

52. "Never claimed to be "better"" - Thanks for clearing that up n/t

[Pavulon]

53. Thats all you got from that? wow..

hey we can all celebrate being better. You understand this is a non traditional war. How are we better by shooting goatherds with ak's?

How does killing the meatpuppets they stand up for us make us better. Fuck that, kill the puppet masters.

I can make it more complicated if that helps you.

[Oregone]

54. "I can make it more complicated if that helps you." - Im not sure you could actually n/t

[Pavulon]

55. hay, i am dumb as sheet David Galula..

not so fucking dumb. Start there, or you can start with the many books written by the North Vietnamese generals (you know understand the logic), or the policy of isolating islands of japanese in ww2 rather than killing them, or you can hit up some Clausewitz, the part on center of gravity applies to this situation.

You know, destroying the people pulling the strings. Sorry, I work in environments where excessive complication is frowned upon. Just enough to get the job done is appreciated.

Or you could just post (NT)

[hack89]

29. ISI same as CIA

with an Army general in command.

[Oregone]

33. So what they do is soldiering or policing?

Do they blow shit up and occupy foreign countries, or do they investigate, tactically pursue, and arrest?

My point is pretty clear here.

[hack89]

35. ISI trains Kashmiri terrorist

they also trained many mujaheddin in Afghanistan. When Pakistan was a military dictatorship they enthusiastically persecuted enemies of the state. They have caused misery and death in both Kashmir and Afghanistan. They are not nice people. They are not policemen. They are more analogous to the Gestapo.

on edit: they do not uphold the law - they are a law upon themselves. They are not a model in any respect for anyone who respects the rule of law and civil rights.

[Oregone]

38. So they are soldiers waging a vast conventional military excursion?

Were the Gestapo soldiers (not really)?

My point is merely that waging a large conventional war is not the only method to detain or deter international criminal elements, if a way at all. Do you disagree with that?

[hack89]

39. There are many complementary methods

you do what best fits the given situation.

[proteus_lives]

10. Good news.

He'll sing like a bird and then be brought back to the states for his treason trial.

[Crowman1979]

11. Well since Pakistan is able to handle with capturing high profile terrorists w/o military...

...involvement, then why the hell are we still in Afghanistan?

[Pavulon]

24. You really think the ISI pulled this off alone..right

just like those colombian hostages were rescued with no US involvement.

[Alcibiades]

12. You just know this has been mishandled by the Obama

administration. Fox News will tell us how as soon as they figure it out.

[dave29]

15. just read twitter comments... "they must be scrambling to mirandize him"

that will be their pitiful way to distort a huge victory and ignore the fact that so much progress has been made

[chelsea0011]

14. Osama bi Laden by the end of summer

And then what will the republicants do?

[Robb]

16. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth

...but I'm officially worried now about the ISI's motivations here.

Look, they've brought in a bunch of senior Taliban in Quetta and Karachi in the past few weeks. They did it very, very quickly. This suggest either they suddenly became the most efficient intelligence operation in the world overnight, or they knew where they all were already. A lot of folks will agree with me if I say I think it's the latter.

This leads to why, and I don't care for the options. The first would be OK, they've decided to carry some water for us for a change, in some sort of deal for the boatload of arms we just shipped over. But I just don't buy it.

The worst possibility is at least as likely, especially given Pakistan's recent stand not to extradite Baradar back to Afghanistan, or anywhere else. They're bringing them in to shield them from prosecution elsewhere, while keeping a seat at the negotiating table for themselves.

Pakistan gets a better deal. The Taliban have a better position from which to negotiate. And we're left wondering why no one took their cell phones away and things keep blowing up.

A critical moment in knowing what's going on here will come when we find out whether they're shipping Gadahn to the US, or holding on to him.

[Oregone]

21. As an alternative to your two theories....

"This suggest either they suddenly became the most efficient intelligence operation in the world overnight, or they knew where they all were already. A lot of folks will agree with me if I say I think it's the latter."

I posted a Globe and Mail article a few weeks ago that suggested this new information is coming from within the Taliban, as a method of cleansing undesirable or competing members from the organization (the theory was many of such generals were moderates, and this is a bad thing that is happening). Perhaps its part of a power struggle as some emerging factions are vying for power. Who knows.

Not to suggest a perfect parallel, but from mafia to drug pushers, we've seen this type of thing happen in the US too. Why have a blood bath when you can just drop a dime and increase your control with no losses? We have seen both the US intelligence services and police forces used as tools (sometimes willingly due to corruption) of criminal elements for their own benefit.

[Flatulo]

57. It may be simpler than that...

AQ and the Taliban have been shitting where they eat. They've been giving the ISI and the Pakistan government real headaches. I would guess that they've outlived any usefulness that they may have had as a foil to India.

[Arrowhead2k1]

30. "Al Qaeda Spokesman Thought Arrested Is Apparently Not"

Although news agencies from the Associated Press to the BBC to CNN reported Gadahn's arrest, at midday Agence France Presse was first to quote Pakistani intelligence officials as saying there had been a mix-up.

"We thought it could have been a big catch, but it appeared it's not Gadahn," said a senior Pakistani security official, speaking in an AFP dispatch from Karachi.

http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=12099409

[bighart]

46. Do you suppose this may be so he can just vanish into thin air never to heard from again?

[ConcernedCanuk]

45. Too bad that the USA is creating thousands of people hating the USA with all that civilian killing -

.
.
.

Sad that all those families in the ME do not grasp the idea of "collateral damage",

I mean really - saying "sorry" for killing your family and friends only goes so far -

After almost a decade, the "superpower" keeps killing innocents "by accident"

hmmm - superpower ain't too smart - can't tell a civilian from an enemy

well guess what

them "civilians" are BECOMING the enemy now

The USA may be willing to sacrifice a couple of thousand of it's young for the war in the ME

Maybe the mothers and fathers in the ME do not feel the same way . . . ??

IF the PNAC gang and the IMC wanted permanent war,

I think they succeeded . . .

too bad it's gonna end up biting North America right in the ass

us Canuks included.

(sigh)

[TexasObserver]

56. Recommend

[Flaneur]

58. Not confirmed by US officials as of Sunday evening.