Kansas City Wants To Close Half Its Public Schools

[Purveyor]

Source: Associated Press

(03-07) 12:54 PST Kansas City, Mo. (AP) --

Kansas City was held up as a national example of bold thinking when it tried to integrate its schools by making them better than the suburban districts where many kids were moving. The result was one school with an Olympic-sized swimming pool and another with recording studios.

Now it's on the brink of bankruptcy and considering another bold move: closing nearly half its schools to stay afloat.

Schools officials say the cuts are necessary to keep the district from plowing through what little is left of the $2 billion it received as part of a groundbreaking desegregation case.

Buffeted for years by declining enrollment, political squabbling and a revolving door of leadership, the district's fortunes are so bleak that Superintendent John Covington has said diplomas given to many graduates "aren't worth the paper they're printed on."

Kansas City is among the most striking examples of the challenges of saving urban school districts. The city used gobs of cash to improve facilities, but boosting lagging test scores and stemming the exodus of students were more elusive. Like other big-city districts, it finds itself struggling to become more than just the last resort for large pockets of poverty in the urban core.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/03/07/national/a101707S80.DTL

[ccharles000]

1. k/r

[movonne]

2. What happened to kansas??? keep dumbing down our country..I

see a real push for this...

[Kablooie]

3. They let Oz go to their heads.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. Dude...Kansas City's in Missouri

Dumbing down indeed.

[chowder66]

9. Thank you...if I had a dime for every time I heard that...

I'm originally from KCMO and this public school system, at least up until high school when I was shipped off to a private school in Kansas due to the unbelievably awful conditions at my junior high. Our school system has been covered on 60 Minutes, I'm told twice now... over the years. It's that bad. I am sad to hear that my grade school may be on that list. It was a great school and I have not heard that it has lost any quality but I can't be sure of that. Maybe one day our tax dollars that go to our states for education will actually be used to fix broken systems and campaigning on the educational issue will become a thing of the past.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Where did you go to grade school?

The demise of the KCSD has been sad.

[chowder66]

20. Bryant Elementary....

then off to Bingham. I only learned a couple of months ago that Bingham closed a few years back. It did need to close though. It was one of the worst in the city. It's unfortunate that they couldn't do something about it though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Bryant closed last year

I worked summer school in that building one year. It was unbelievably hot.

[chowder66]

29. Different school...?

http://www.kcmsd.k12.mo.us/bryant/Bryant.htm

this is the one I went to. Seems open.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. It closed last year

[chowder66]

10. Quick correction .....KCK and KCMO

There is a Kansas City, Kansas and a Kansas City, Missouri. KCMO has the major metro area. Kansas City, KS is more industrial.

You were referring correctly that these schools closings are happening in Kansas City, MO.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. KCK is a bit smaller.

But it is a city a lot like KCMO. No more industry than across the state line. It also has a struggling urban school system. But yes the schools being closed are in MO.

[chowder66]

22. Maybe it has grown since I last lived there....

I rarely went to KCK and when I did it was industrial with some neighborhoods throughout. At least that was the area I went to plus I have a neighbor who is from there and he sees it as more industrial as well. I think closer to the river. With that said, I haven't been back in some time and definately not to KCK. My apologies if I'm off base.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Yes KCK is growing

But the central core isn't that much different from KCMO. There are a lot of industries at the riverfront on both sides of the river.

KCK has a big NASCAR track. They have really built up the western side and it's booming. KCMO is growing north but the urban cores of both cities are not thriving.

[pipoman]

54. I guess I missed your reply

when I posted...I about copied your comment.:hi:

[pipoman]

52. I think it probably has changed dramatically.

The urban sprawl has easily reached the I-70 exit for Leavenworth and isn't too far east of Lawrence south of I70 on highway 56....It wouldn't have surprised me if this were happening in KCK. The intercity neighborhoods in KCMO and KCK are very similar and have similar issues.

[PSzymeczek]

21. It's in both -

Kansas AND Missouri. Right on the state line.

[jmowreader]

70. Dude...Kansas City is also in Kansas

It's a huge metro area that crosses the state line.

[kestrel91316]

73. There is also a KC in Kansas. Right across the river, IIRC.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. It's Missouri

Kansas City, Missouri

[jmowreader]

71. If I was a Kansan I'd want to disown KC too

I have been to both sides of Kansas City, and I feel your pain.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. The MO side has its plusses

Great music and art culture. And if you're a sports fan that's where the stadiums are :)

[frazzled]

4. Well, we're talking about spending back in 1985

I'll admit that building swimming pools and fancy indoor tracks wasn't probably the best way to spend that $2 billion the courts ordered them to do. Programs build good schools (though facilities help, too). My daughter's urban high school in Minneapolis attracted some suburban and private school kids because it offered an IB program that was highly competitive and respected.

But the white flight that has relegated Kansas City schools (like most urban districts) into seas of poverty occurred many years ago. Racism had more to do with it than any single factor. Now, with the economy tanking and states pulling back money for schools big time, I'm not surprised they're having to cut back. The white students never returned to the city, the coffers are dry.

Let's not take this sensationalistic story to reflect anything more than decades and decades of inequality in urban schools, white fear and flight, and a tanking economy and strapped state budgets.

[girl gone mad]

6. I think it's a bit of a cop out to just blame blanket racism.

Drugs and gangs had a hand in driving middle class people into the suburbs. No doubt a lot of it was engineered by the CIA and DEA, and over-sensationalized by the media, but the crime problems were real. I don't think even that was the real culprit for middle class flight so much as the higher municipal taxes and lower quality of life.

I think Kansas City is a beautiful, very livable city, but there are also nice suburbs really close-in and not much of a reason for young families to stay downtown rather than get a bigger, more affordable place with a yard on a street where kids play together and traffic is light.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. I live here. It's racism.

This is a very segregated city. Racism is still rampant. It's very sad.

[WriteDown]

44. You should try San Fran or Seattle if you want to see segregation.

Different reasons though. That's due to gentrification.

[pipoman]

57. I worked the KC area for around 10 years

repossessing cars. While I could tell when certain addresses were going to be in largely ethnic intercity, I believe that the burbs in most of the KC metro area are pretty well integrated, no?

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. Some of them

The inner ring burbs are somewhat integrated. Outer ones are not. More integrated in MO than KS.

[jonestonesusa]

63. 400 years of legal racism, including 250 years of human trafficking

continue to function as root causes of achievement gaps, even in 21st century Kansas City.

Yes, not only white folks but black folks with means leave central cities in large numbers when jobs, investment, tax base, public education, and public safety all take a turn for the worse. I think that's perfectly understandable, though we can't run and hide forever from the huge pockets of poverty in our midst. And what's the cause of achievement gaps in the first place? We've had 400 years of legal racism in this country and 55 years of legal freedom. And guess what? When we got to 1955, we didn't redo the Homestead Act, post WWII FHA loans, the GI Bill or most other policies that led to the formation of a middle and wealthy class in Kansas City and all over. The paths to wealth closed down fast after the 50s and 60s, especially in the struggling parts of the central cities.

I really appreciate your thoughts about economics, Girl Gone Mad. But it's good to acknowledge the impact of structural racism as well on the conditions our country faces now.

What do you mean by a "cop out" anyway?

[WCGreen]

5. People don't understand that it isn't the schools or the teachers that

are causing the problems in large metro area such as Kansas City and Cleveland...

It is the flight to the Suburbs which, in and of itself, is the last tangible result of the highway system and the denuding of vast tracks of urban residential areas. These highways that criss crossed willy nilly throughout the cities destroyed the natural flow of neighborhoods so that all that was left was to move. Parishes were destroyed, schools were cut off from their student base, shopping areas were isolated from their customers...

All of it pushed even more people to the burbs.

What was left; the poor and the racial minorities. And since these are the groups in our society with the least amount of political power, they were forced to deal with the after effects of white flight and destroyed urban living patterns.

So yea, lets blame the teachers and the parents left in the urban areas for 50 years of suburbanization. It's the white thing to do...

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. And charter schools

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. Charter schools are a recent development, flight to the burbs has been going on for two generations

[chowder66]

24. What part of the city are you in?

I'm in L.A but grew up in Brookside near Oak. My family is still there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I work in the city and live in the burbs

I've lived all over the metro area.

[chowder66]

30. Nice to meet you from afar.

I hope spring begins for you soon if it hasn't already. I have to say I wish I was there for the winter season this year. I know it was difficult for many so I don't begrudge those who hate snow. I just miss it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Nice to meet you too

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Kansas City also lost 7 schools to a neighboring district 2 years ago

The voters voted to take the schools back into a suburban district that had given the schools to KC less than 50 years ago. It's a weird story. But they lost a bunch of kids.

[valerief]

8. Job flight caused by laissez-faire trade policies killed America. nt

[Mithreal]

11. If only there was another party that fought against defunding government.

Yeah, I don't know specifics of local politics there but I know my Blue Dogs here.

[RedCloud]

12. I say close the lower half. That way the kids can see the sky!

Who needs the first floor anyway?

[Silent3]

82. But then they'll need ladders to get to class. n/t

[endless october]

13. that's stupid.

i wonder how much money they spend on fucking pro sports. i bet the amount is considerable, as it is in most states.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. The Chiefs and Royals are both playing in newly renovated stadiums

while the kids go to school in 100 year old buildings.

Priorities.

[Plucketeer]

31. And most of the kids think they're gonna be high-paid Jocks

or Recording artists when they drop out.

EDIT: How's come we don't have programs like American Scientist or American Geek instead of fluff like American Idol?

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Or rap stars

[alp227]

91. There was this show on ABC "American Inventor" a couple years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Inventor

And now ABC has the show "Shark Tank".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shark_Tank_(TV_series)

[WriteDown]

45. Don't think money is the issue here. Just read the OP.

I guess if they had 3B instead of 2B then they could have turned it all around? :shrug:

[KamaAina]

76. Not to mention the brand, spanking new arena

which has no major league team in it. It was supposed to be "If we build it, they will come". :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. Plus the TIF giveaways surrounding that arena should be illegal

Every TIF deal takes money away from school districts. The KCMO district took a huge hit when downtown was 'revitalized' thanks to TIF deals.

[LeighAnn]

35. Plus we've got a lottery and casinos supposedly paying for schools

The gambling money was all supposed to go to education...

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. If I hear that one more time . . .

:mad:

[joeglow3]

100. Ummm, did you read the story?

I don't think money was an issue.

[marmar]

25. Circling the drain......

Roma sta bruciando

[alp227]

38. Obviously Americans STILL haven't learned anything from white flight.

The consequences are as clear as water, yet people STILL are cringing at the sight of a different-looking child, for (excess) fear of crime or "open-mindedness".

Yes, extracurricular programs are good. However, they don't seem to have worked for KC. :cry:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

41. It wasn't simply "fear of crime"

The neighborhood my relatives in New York fled in the early 70's was a war zone, the black and asian residents were fleeing too.

Nothing quite like the NYPD barging in to your apartment during dinner so they could use your living room window as a sniper nest,

[WriteDown]

46. Ugh, I was a teen in NYC in the 70's.....

May be an affront to war zones to say that.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

42. Is it just white flight anymore? It seems to be anybody with the means to is leaving the inner city

More of a socioeconomic issue these days, though clearly that has not always been the case

[BolivarianHero]

59. Kinda weird...

If I didn't have such a good deal in Gloucester, I'd choose to live close to Ottawa's downtown core.

[WriteDown]

43. Which is worse; white flight or gentrification? nt

[DeSwiss]

39. No matter how much they spend on schools.....

...in Kansas City, they'll never come close to the amount money that was flushed down the fucking toilet, on one bogus fucking war. Nor the bogus fucking war we're fighting now.

- This country's priorities are truly fucked up. And then we stand back in awe that Johnny can't read.......

[WriteDown]

47. And then there is the question on why so many other countries can spend a fraction..

of what we spend on education, but get far better results.

[SharonAnn]

55. Anywhere the children are in stable homes and parents have decent income,

the school results are better.

Wonder why that has more to do with student sucess than the teachers?

Because the parents encourage education, value it, teach their children, etc.

[WriteDown]

56. Not always...

Even in countries where the parents have a lower standard of living, children just flat out due better in school. Just look at Asian immigrants to the US, who often have to scrape by when they first arrive.

[wickerwoman]

61. That's part of Sharon's point.

Asian kids are taught to look at the teacher as an all-knowing font of wisdom. Their parents pour a huge amount of their disposable income into after-school and summer classes for their kids. A recent problem in Shanghai was sleep deprivation *among primary school students* who were studying six or seven hours a day in addition to their school classes. Parents complained when the amount of homework was reduced because they were afraid that their children would fall behind. That's what happens when you grow up knowing you're going to be competing with 1.3 billion people for jobs.

Compare that to an average American home where if Junior has circles under his eyes it's from being glued to the PS3 until two in the morning and where a fair number of parents could give a damn if their kid does homework or not (as long as you don't try to teach their kids about evolution or labor rights or the parts of the constitution that interfere with their personal values.)

Success is based at least as much on the home culture as it is the school system, and probably quite a bit more. Teachers aren't respected in the US. They're treated like McEducators. And instead of addressing the anti-intellectual culture at large, we complain that they're burning the fries and using too many pickles.

[Mithreal]

65. +1

[joeglow3]

101. At what point should the state start removing children?

I agree with what you said and I consider it abuse similar to any other kind that warrants removal of the children. These parents are flat out f*cking up their kids for the rest of their lives.

[kwassa]

67. Immigrants are also the most ambitious of their countrymen

Immigration is a self-selection process, where those with the most ambition, drive, and willingness to take risks and leave all that is familiar, and often all that represents family behind.

The less courageous and the less ambitious don't make the journey.

[Happy Hippy]

105. This is a good point.....

It also isn't about money spent per pupil. Many of this countries worst public school districts spend 50% more per pupil than districts that are academically successful. In D.C. public school they spend nearly 30,000$ per pupil, and most of them still can't read.

So where is the academic bottleneck? As others have suggested, I believe it is at home.

[slay]

50. +1

i said something similar in another post.. the pentagon/DOD/war machine MUST be stopped - it's killing EVERYONE! :(

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. This after $2B in court ordered, taxpayer funded desegregation case

That case is also used as one of the main examples that throwing money at education does not change things.

[slay]

48. No more MONEY FOR WARS until we fix our schools!

And our health care! And our jobs! The pentagon budget is OBSCENE! NO MORE! :mad: :grr:

[WriteDown]

49. Because money is obviously the answer!

If only they had had 2.5B!

[slay]

51. Money may not be the only answer but

we still need to stop spending it in Iraq and Afghanistan - we have URGENT problems that need fixing right here.

[WriteDown]

53. No argument there...

There are a ton of things we could use that money for just not this particular situation.

[Ozymanithrax]

58. Kansis City got what conservatives have wanted.

Only about half of Kansas City's elementary school students and about 40 percent of middle and high school students now attend the city's public schools. Many of the other students have left for publicly funded charter schools, private and parochial schools and the suburbs.

As the public school system dies, so goes the nation.

[Imajika]

62. Wait...

..what does the fact that so many students left for charter schools, private schools and the suburbs have to do with it?

From the article:

"Today, the district spends an average of $15,158 on each student, compared to a national average of $9,666 in 2006-07, the latest figures available."

The KC school district STILL spends almost 50% MORE than the national average on each student, yet the schools in KC apparently still suck. In fact, I'd say this district is pretty good evidence that just throwing money at the problem will not always be a viable solution.

So what do charters schools, etc, have to do with this at all?

Seriously, when do the excuses for some of these miserable schools end? I swear, people often seem more concerned with protecting teachers jobs, wages and benefits than they are about the kids education.

[Ozymanithrax]

64. Kids are leavig the public school system...

Charter schools and private schools are the wet dream of conservatives and the religous right. It allows them to destroy the public school system and go to schools that are free of the Tearchers Unions and pay lower wages.

[Imajika]

66. Not relevant here though...

It says that even with all the defections out of the public schools, each student still receives around $15,000 spent on them per year. That is 50% above the national average!

So the KC schools just flat out suck, even with over 15k spend on each student. Of course parents take their kids out and send them to charter and private schools, or just move.

Yet I hear nothing but excuses from the school system.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

68. KC schools are one of the major failures cited in those who want to restructure not just refinance

public schools. There is a CATO report on it if you are interested in seeing more on it. I won't link it here

[WriteDown]

69. So private schools are the cause?

I guess if you choose to live in a poorly performing school district, you should just be stuck there? :shrug:

[jaksavage]

72. All the money in the world

won't cure a system which is left with a large percentage of non learners.
Kids are just like any group and when left to themselves they degenerate.
The best will always succeed no matter what they have to work with.
The middle majority are suseptable to influences.
When I taught school 10% of bad kids could easily take over my classroom and stop teaching.

Our problems in education are both systemic to society and monetary strains to the ed system.

Kids with parents who care move out leaving lots of kids who don't have caring parents.
Schools become baby sitting. Crowd control.

I wish it was easy to solve.
I wish I had hope it would be improved.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. +1

[CoffeeCat]

79. duplicate

(nt)

[CoffeeCat]

80. Yes, I agree...and it seems like...

...so much of society is crumbing all around us. I don't mean
to be so cynical, but so much is wrong right now.

The economy continues to tank. Unemployment is high and people
are very stressed due to economic conditions that seem to be
worsening. Families seem to be suffering too--with more single parent
households and kids traumatized by divorce, abuse and neglect.

Bullying has become a very big problem in most schools. Kids are very
angry and anxious. Kids can't learn in that state.

Many kids come to school traumatized by all of this. It's not the fault
of the school. How can we punish schools for all of society's ills?

Seems that the "powers that be" want the public school system dismantled.
Instead of dealing with the problems, I guess we're going to blame the schools
for the symptoms in order to fulfill some political agenda that desires the
destruction of public education.

Very sad.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. No the schools in KC don't generally suck

in spite of the right wing efforts to promote that meme. I'm sure they would appreciate knowing you are helping them.

As for the high per pupil expense, there are several important factors conveniently left out of the article.

1. Kids from low socio economic groups are more expensive to educate. That's always been true. These kids tend to come to school less prepared than kids from higher income families. Most have not been to preschool, an increasingly higher percent come in not speaking English and the percent of students with cognitive disabilities is higher.

2. Many come from families that don't value education. Many parents did not finish high school.

3. Geographically KC is larger than many urban districts. This increases transportation costs, which is usually the second highest budget item for any school district. Payroll is #1.

4. The voters in KC have not approved a tax increase to fund their schools since 1969. This resulted in buildings not being maintained and curriculum not being updated in addition to very low teacher salaries. When the court awarded the money to the school district, much of it was spent playing catch up instead of being spent directly on students. A huge chunk was spent on building new schools.

Several schools in KC have been recognized at the state and national level for excellence. The district was honored for its program serving homeless children and for an innovative professional development program for new teachers. So no the schools really don't apparently still suck.

[Imajika]

81. Oh sure, they sound wonderful...

From the article:

"Buffeted for years by declining enrollment, political squabbling and a revolving door of leadership, the district's fortunes are so bleak that Superintendent John Covington has said diplomas given to many graduates 'aren't worth the paper they're printed on.'"

Sure, they sounds great! People bailing out, regular leadership turnover, a Superintendent who says the diplomas aren't worth the paper they're printed on, money wasted on stupid nonsense, massive decline in enrollment, etc.

Sorry, proud2BlibKansan, your just making excuses. That is all I hear, excuses.

These schools STILL spend over 15k per child and anyone who can get their kids out of them seems to do exactly that.

"The voters in KC have not approved a tax increase to fund their schools since 1969. This resulted in buildings not being maintained and curriculum not being updated in addition to very low teacher salaries. When the court awarded the money to the school district, much of it was spent playing catch up instead of being spent directly on students. A huge chunk was spent on building new schools."

Can you blame the voters? The district got 2 freaking billion dollars and appeared to have mostly just wasted the money. From the article:

"The district went on a buying spree that included a six-lane indoor track and a mock court complete with a judge's chamber and jury deliberation room. But student achievement remained low, and the anticipated flood of students from the suburbs turned out to be more like a trickle."

Sounds like they wasted huge chunks of that money on some boneheaded idea that kids from suburbs would rush back into the city if they prettied up the schools. People generally know city schools often stink, that is why they moved out to the suburbs in the first place. The entire idea sounds like a colossal effort at flushing money down the drain.

See, the thing is, the same old excuses and calls for more money just aren't going to cut it. People are tired of that now. A district can't be spending 15k per kid and get these sorts of bad results. That is failure. Same thing at that RI school - if the schools are terrible then yes, the teachers are going to have to work harder and get very little extra money for doing it. Period. That is how it is for most of us in the real world. The school has a mission to educate kids, if it fails, some teachers are going to have to be canned, some schools closed, administrative staff reduced, some bad kids simply expelled (you cant save every kid), new policies adopted, more pay increases based on merit and less seniority, reduced or no tenure till things turn around, etc.

I am just so sick of the excuses. No sane person would want their kids in some of these public schools. They've often turned into nothing more than dumping grounds and the kids are really getting screwed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. Are you a teacher? Involved in education in any way?

I've spent 30 years in this field. I've heard folks talk like you all my life. The underlying implication is that while we spend $720 MILLION every day on war, our kids aren't worth $15K a year to be educated.

I think they are worth 10 times that amount.

Quality costs money. The good things the KC district was able to accomplish with the deseg money are always ignored because someone decided that achievement should be measured by standardized test scores.

My kid who is now grown was one of the white suburban students who attended the city schools during the deseg era. He had an outstanding education. He went on to middle and high school in a suburban district where he was on the honor roll and was way ahead of his suburban classmates in the arts (he had been in an arts magnet). He is now an accomplished musician and artist.

The district was also able to build 15 beautiful new schools. Yes one of them has a 6 lane indoor track and a few have swimming pools. And I have heard this story about the mock courtroom but honestly don't know where it is. I remember that idea being proposed but turned down by the court so I doubt it was built. But the point is again, why are the kids in KC not deserving of beautiful facilities? A suburban district built a high school during that same time that cost twice as much as the one in KC everyone said was too much. They even nicknamed it the Taj Mahal. So I guess poor kids who live in the urban core aren't deserving of fancy high schools while suburban kids are?

We have spent generations creating an underclass and it will take generations to lift it up. Throwing money at an urban district for a few years and expecting miracles is a recipe for failure.

But I would support it again in a heartbeat because as I said I believe our kids deserve it. But then I don't see our schools as dumping grounds. I see them as buildings full of children with potential if given the right combination of opportunities.

[WriteDown]

84. So spending divided by # of students equals results? Uh, no.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_spe_per_sec_sch_stu-spending-per-secondary-school-student

Do you work in the mock courtroom?

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. As I said results are being measured by test scores

and I don't know where that mock courtroom is. I honestly don't think it ever got built. :shrug:

[WriteDown]

86. Same way they're measured in Japan, Sweden, or the UK

Their bang for the buck is MUCH higher though.

If the money was spent and it wasn't built, that is so much worse.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. It was never approved

The money was never allocated. It was an idea that never got any funding. So no money was lost.

I would also disagree that the bang for the buck is always higher in other countries. For one thing, we are comparing apples and oranges when we compare our test scores to theirs. In reality, I don't think we know which schools are better. But claiming our schools are failing has been a very successful negative talking point campaign for 3 decades now. I see it's working :)

[WriteDown]

88. If you've ever met a European or Asian educated JHS or HS student...

You can tell that we have a LONG way to go to catch up. The levels of math alone that they are adept in is stunning.

[proud2BlibKansan]

90. And I know kids who have graduated from KC Schools to go on to Ivy League schools and excel

Anecdotal stories are not evidence.

[WriteDown]

92. So you refuse to accept the test scores and you refuse to accept the anecdotes....

Sounds like you are just a fanatic and see what you want to see. Unfortunately, that is helping no one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. I am there every day doing all one person can do to make things better

You?

[WriteDown]

96. KC is too far a commute..

See post 93 for an extensive answer.

[mbperrin]

95. One thing is that ALL US kids are tested. Most of the countries you're speaking

of wash out their kids early in vocational programs, so the junior high and high school kids represent the elite. Take our top 20% and compare. There's your apples and oranges.

I teach in a poor area as well, yet I have former students who are now at the London School, Stanford, and other great schools. I also have two dead in Iraq, and several in prison, a mix, just as you would expect.

No other country in the world tries to educate EVERY child in an academic way.

[WriteDown]

97. EXACTLY!

And that should be adopted here. Not everyone is meant to be a doctor and many would excel at being carpenters and electricians.

[proud2BlibKansan]

98. Yes. A fact lost on these public school bashers.

Thank you.

[Imajika]

93. Sorry, that appeal to emotion just won't cut it...

"I've spent 30 years in this field. I've heard folks talk like you all my life. The underlying implication is that while we spend $720 MILLION every day on war, our kids aren't worth $15K a year to be educated.

I think they are worth 10 times that amount."

Because we squander money in one area of government does not excuse failures elsewhere. That is like saying, well, I know we've budgeted this huge amount of money to fill potholes, and hardly any were actually filled, but it doesn't matter because the defense budget is too high and highway infrastructure is too important not to throw more money at it - so cut defense and give the money to the transportation department!

Your trying to defend schools that are flat out awful - AND that already get more money spent per child than the national average by over 50%.

"So I guess poor kids who live in the urban core aren't deserving of fancy high schools while suburban kids are?"

Oh please, stop it. If your schools suck, the priority should not have been expensive tracks and Olympic pools. That really is like the proverbial lipstick on a pig. The poor kids deserve a real education, so the money should have gone into developing a quality education program to teach them the basics. If they had to hire and fire 10,000 teachers and administrators to find the right people to get that done then they should have.

"Throwing money at an urban district for a few years and expecting miracles is a recipe for failure."

proud2BlibKansan, I'd be more sympathetic to your point if things were getting better, or there was some sign of significant improvement ahead. Then you could at least argue that the results are on the uptick, but just slower than we'd like. Sadly, the Kansas City public schools seem to be a disgrace and only getting worse - and on top of that they've blown through all the law suit money.

"But I would support it again in a heartbeat because as I said I believe our kids deserve it. But then I don't see our schools as dumping grounds. I see them as buildings full of children with potential if given the right combination of opportunities."

So you'd support an expensive, obviously failing system because you think the kids deserve it? This is a system that is so bad the superintendent said the diplomas aren't worth the paper they are written on. How does that make sense? Why on earth would you want to repeat this failure? And I said the KC public schools, along with many urban school districts, are almost just becoming dumping grounds of lost kids. The parents that really care, and can find the money, increasingly get their kids out of the city public schools.

Too many schools are failing, particularly in urban areas, and what we mostly hear is a bunch of excuses. And no, there is no more money. Get used to that. The state and local budget crisis is only going to get worse as the stimulus money runs out. The Jobs Bill will help if we can pass it, but the Federal Government isn't going to be able to prop up local and state public sector workers for much longer. Teachers and administrators will be expected to work harder, possibly for less, and with better results. Those that can't cut it will end up being replaced with more flexible, dynamic educators. That is the reality in the private sector, and it is coming to the public sector soon - especially on the local and state level.

[mbperrin]

99. Superintendent John Covington has said diplomas given to many graduates 'aren't worth the paper

they're printed on.'"

So, as the manager in charge, he'll be submitting his resignation and returning his paychecks so that he won't be guilty of fraud, right?

[leftyladyfrommo]

103. Do you agree with the closings? There are some pretty good arguments for it.

I guess the biggest one is that we simply don't need, nor can we afford, all those schools when there are only 17,000 students. All these buildings were used when there were 29,000 students in the district. I think there are another 8,000 or so in charter schools and those won't be affected yet. And this doesn't affect the North Kansas City School system or the Liberty School system.

If they close all the buildings that they don't need then those resources can be used a lot better for the students that are there.

And some people see this as a way to break the teacher's union here. Some 285 teachers will lose their jobs. I was just talking to one teacher who felt like the teacher's union was way too powerful and should be broken.

[hamerfan]

89. I spent 12 years in North Kansas City

I worked in Midtown, 31st and Grand. My wife and I left a year ago. So glad we did! It bills itself as a "world-class city". No way. Plenty of money for pro sports, not much for anything else.
Close 'em all, I say! :hide:

[Odin2005]

102. These people must be fucking brain dead.

[panzerfaust]

104. The remaining four will move to a more faith-based curriculum