Pope in talks with top German bishop over sex abuse

[saigon68]

Source: BBC

Pope Benedict XVI is meeting Germany's top bishop for talks amid a crisis over sexual abuse of children by priests in his native country.

Bishop Robert Zollitsch is expected to put before the Pope details of accusations made in some 200 alleged cases of abuse by German priests.

Europe's Catholic paedophile scandal now affects institutions in Ireland, the Netherlands, Austria and Germany. The Pope has called the Irish abuse a "heinous crime" and "grave sin".

Among the German cases are alleged abuses at a boys choir in the 1950s and 1960s.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8564074.stm

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Oh my Oh my----

[saigon68]

1. More

Thursday March 11 2010

The growing clerical sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that the Devil is at work inside the Vatican, according to the Holy See's chief exorcist.

Father Gabriele Amorth said the Pope "fully believes in liberation from evil, because the Devil lodges in the Vatican. Naturally it is difficult to find proof, but you can see the consequences". Fr Amorth (85) has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession.

He said the "consequences" included internal Vatican power struggles as well as "cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, bishops who are linked to the demon. When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' in the holy rooms, it is all true. Including these latest stories of violence and paedophilia".


http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/devil-is-at-work-in-vatican-says-churchs-top-exorcist-2095048.html

[pattmarty]

4. Jesusfuckingchrist, "the devil is at work inside the Vatican" and...........

.......the 85 yo "chief exorcist" is in fucking charge????




If this wasn't so serious a problem it would read like a fucking comedy, you definitely cannot make this shit up.

[Sub Atomic]

13. Actually that statement isn't far from the truth. And that devil is Pope Benedict himself.

Old Bennie was instrumental in covering up the child sex abuse scandals.

Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests'


The Pope played a leading role in a systematic cover-up of child sex abuse by Roman Catholic priests, according to a shocking documentary to be screened by the BBC tonight.

In 2001, while he was a cardinal, he issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church's interests ahead of child safety.

The document recommended that rather than reporting sexual abuse to the relevant legal authorities, bishops should encourage the victim, witnesses and perpetrator not to talk about it. And, to keep victims quiet, it threatened that if they repeat the allegations they would be excommunicated.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369148-pope-led-cover-up-of-child-abuse-by-priests.do

It's far past time for people to stop apologizing for these pedophiles.

[CoffeeCat]

17. Only pedophiles cover for pedophiles...

Normal, everyday people are repulsed by adult men and women who
have sex with children. When this happens, normal people want
to help the victim and encourage the victim to heal--which means
talking, processing the pain and ending the silence.

The only people who would choose silence are PEOPLE WHO ARE PEDOPHILES
THEMSELVES. The natural response to this is revulsion. A response
of silence means that these horrific people take the side of the pedophile.

Silence damages and causes untold suffering in the victim.

It really is time to face the reality--that there is a rotting, evil
presence at the top of the catholic church--a presence that is pro-pedophile
and pro-child suffering. It is evil. It is disgusting. It is not some
mistake or misunderstanding.

Only a pedophile or a proponent of pedophiles would behave this way. If
any corporation or civic group hid rampant pedophilia in their ranks and
then threatened the victims who wanted relief--society would have shut down
that corporation or civic group. The offenders would be in prison. Not
so with the catholic church. These child molesters are offered PROMOTIONS
and they escape the criminal-justice system. The catholic church offers
special perks to child predators.

The catholic church is a haven for pedophiles. It is the place you join if you
want to molest kids without any consequences. It is where you work if you want
to have sex with kids and then enjoy the fruits of an institution that will consipire
to bully your victim into a lifetime of silence. You couldn't find better
treatment from NAMBLA.

Pedophiles, by now, are attracted to this rotting institution. May they all
burn in hell for what they have done--and continue to do.

[Wizard777]

21. Even the devil has to work within God's plan. I think this is a blessing in disguise.

One of my biggest complaints about the catholic church and especially it's hierarchy is that live well for men that once took a vow of poverty. The more assets I see being siphoned off and lost to these sexual abuse suites. The happier I get for them. Because in a very mysterious way God is taking them back to real honest to goodness, leave all your worldly possession behind and follow me, Christianity. It's really not about big cathedrals, silver candlesticks and gold chalices. God in His ultimate Wisdom is slowly but surely taking those venal distractions away from them.

[Arugula Latte]

28. If there is some invisible hovering sky deity pulling the strings here on Earth

why does it let stuff like this go down in the first place? That's the essential problem with believing this stuff -- "God" is simultaneously "Love" and one murderous bastard who gets its jollies on abuse, murder, genocide, disease, pestilence, suffering. There's no way to reconcile the dichotomy except "God works in mysterious ways" and "ours is not to question -- there is a plan." What a bunch of hooey.

[Wizard777]

29. I understand where your coming from. Yes God is invisible at this point.

But God exists behind a veil. That veil is tomorrow. Be it individually or as a whole. When there is no longer a tomorrow between a person or humanity and God. There He stands in plain sight in all his glory. But I've cheated. I had a NDE and almost permanently lost all my tomorrows. So that veil was temporally lifted for me. I've seen God and He is very real. Instead of taking my tomorrows. He took my belief in His existence and replaced it with the Knowledge of His existence.

As for the age old question of why bad things happen to good people. Part of that answer is the free will God has given us. God respects that free will even if it leads us into harms way. But none of those things you have mentioned comes from God. At least in my religion they don't. Those things come from Ahriman (The Destroyer.) Ahriman uses the Druj (lying spirits)to influence the free will of people to lead them away from God to a place where he may harm or even destroy them.

I didn't really mean to get all preachy there. But if you ask me a question. I will give you an answer to the best of my knowledge and ability. That's all I've really done here.

[Iowa]

32. Interesting...

Have you read Lessons from the Light, by Kenneth Ring? It covers NDEs pretty well. I'd like to believe NDEs tell us something about what comes after death, because it's really quite phenomenal. Unfortunately, nobody has ever come back from being really, truly, totally dead to tell about it, so we're left with the probability that these experiences end when the brain decays. But from what I understand, those who have actually had NDEs are forever changed, and if memory serves, I believe that many of them actually dump religion after their experience, seeing religion as woefully misguided and missing the point. Anyway, it was a fascinating read.

This video was interesting too... it's along similar lines, but a different type of experience:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

I do find these things interesting, but I don't know that they really tell us much beyond the fact that these types of experiences occur, and that they have a significant impact upon those who experience them. Maybe I'd feel differently if I experienced it myself.

[Wizard777]

34. I went through a dissociative thing with my body.

It took me a lil while to get used to being back in my body. I had to get used to the weight of my flesh. It was a burden. It went away eventually. But I even know the difference between my thoughts right before I died and my thoughts after I died. When I died my consciousness became independent of my body. It existed outside my body. So by my experience. Once your consciousness leaves your body. The body becomes irrelevant to it. It comes down to a question of does the body power the mind or does the mind power the body? My experience indicates that the mind powers the body. That consciousness can exist without the body. But the body cannot exist without consciousness. While I was dead I learned things that I later discovered were true. I knew things I couldn't possibly know.

I'm now 78. My NDE happened in 1947. The concept of NDE didn't exist yet. Back then they called it a resurrection. I was pronounced dead and tagged for the morgue. The intern that was supposed to take me down to the morgue saw the sheet move. He found I had shallow breathing and a faint pulse. Two hours later I was in perfect physical health. But it took a couple of months to fully regain all my mental faculties. But they came back better than ever. Spiritually I had found serenity and was at peace with myself and the world. I was and still am deeply religious. But my religion is closer to a science than a Judeo Christian islamic "religion." I had severe problems with the Judeo Christian islamic religions. In fact they angered me. I have put more than one Priest or Rabbi in their place. I have encountered people of the muslim faith. I feel very at ease around them. But some of the Imams and Ayatollahs....... Well I can see the darkness that has them in it's claws and I pray for them.

[Iowa]

35. I appreciate your posts...

You have re-kindled a spark of hope in me that had pretty much died out. Thanks.

[RainDog]

36. I think it's a blessing that's not in disguise

because it is a good thing for these criminals to be outed and, hopefully, for this organization to be charged with the crimes they have perpetuated.

if that means the church goes bankrupt and has to turn the Vatican into a museum... well, I know that's wishful thinking on my part, but in time this will happen, if we're all lucky.

Religious groups whose founders advocated poverty for their ministers should practice it instead of reinforcing it around the world.

The overthrow of patriarchal bullshit is a good thing. This church tries to interfere in women's lives who do not share their beliefs. It would be the best thing in the world, to me, for this and all the other b.s. patriarchal religions to wither and die on the vine of their own poisonous ideologies.

[Arugula Latte]

27. Oh, of course they'd blame yet another non-existent figment of their imagination.

[Botany]

6. The Devil Made Me Do It

When will the Catholic church learn? If you only hire men that are not supposed to
have sex that a certain % of these men will have issues w/ their sex lives.

[Captain Hilts]

2. It chokes me to say so, but Cardinal Rat also gave Irish Bishops the going over on this. Good.

Gotta give credit where it is due.

[rfranklin]

18. How many were excommunicated?

let's talk about some actual repercussions.

[pattmarty]

3. Ya know what oughta happen? We herd all these evil motherfuckers............

............together and burn all of them at the stake. Just like the fucking catholic church did during the dark ages. All fucking religions belong in the "dark ages". It is about time the world begins to educate people on the evil mind control that ANY religion has over people.:sarcasm:




I used the sarcasm "thingie", because PART of my spiel was satire, but the majority of it was my belief.

[salguine]

7. I hear ya. I personally think religion in general is poison, but I've also noticed it's a lot like

alcohol...some people can handle it responsibly, and some people are driven insane and destroyed by it.

[pattmarty]

10. Yes. I was bought up Catholic going to a catholic grade school and.........

.........when I entered a public HS, to CCD classes every Sunday. I realized at an early age that it was a "nuts" belief system. I did always through my life maintain a tolerance for those who "believed" as myself gradually became an agnostic. This was until fairly recently, maybe 10 yrs ago or so when the religions seemed to explode with fanatical zeal anew. I now believe in taxation on ALL religions and stricter laws/regulations on exactly what they can do or finance. Oh, and one last thing, hang that evil motherfucker Pat Robertson from his own satellite transmission dish.

[xchrom]

5. Shrug - they'll blame it on Teh Gayz. Nt

[izquierdista]

8. Don't forget Poland!

Another Catholic country with -- you guessed it -- priests who fondle the altar boys.

[peace13]

9. To all Catholic parents...

Do not leave your children alone at church ever. I don't care what your deal is. If they need church study go with them. If they want to be in the choir, go with them. Sexual abuse is a lifetime scar that will haunt your child forever. Would you leave your child on the corner unattended for any reason. The only way that this abuse is going to stop is if the parents step in and refuse to allow it.

[pattmarty]

11. And the "church" continues to keep women out of the priesthood............

.............and NOT allowing priests to marry. Makes sense, doesn't it?:sarcasm:

[peace13]

12. It makes perfect sense.

They don't need any adult witnesses that would be willing to talk. Women in the mix would sour the cream I fear. I really don't care if the priests and nuns have sex with each other in any configuration but why do the children need to be victimized? Why do the nuns not speak up? Clergy just get entirely too much respect across the board. I realize that not every priest is a child molester but many who are not, remain silent about abuses they have seen making them accessory to these crimes.

[onehandle]

14. I was left 'alone' at church with priests many times as a child.

I was an altar boy and was also there for other miscellaneous reasons.

Nobody ever touched me and I never heard of any abuse at our church at the time. The only 'scandal' I ever heard about was with our parish's Archbishop. He had an affair with his secretary (a woman). I was an adult when this happened.

I was also left 'alone' with scoutmasters. These guys were nuts and encouraged the scouts to be Very aggressive. I suppose to make them into 'men.' It didn't scar me, but I knew at the time it was inappropriate. I quit after nine months. I took karate instead, which taught me to be outgoing without being an asshole.

But I digress...

I was 'alone' with priests many times. Nothing happened.


On edit: I think the church's stance on priests marrying is bullshit. They married for the first few hundred years of the church. Why not now? And why not let women be priests?

[rfranklin]

19. The marriage thing was to prevent hereditary postions in the church...

They were modeling themselves after royalty.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Nope. It was to make sure that the wealth of the priest

went to the church coffers when he died, rather than to family heirs. In a way, the opposite of royalty, who kept/keep their wealth tightly in the hands of the family line. Also, of course, the positions of royalty are hereditary.
The denial of marriage to RCC clerics was and is all about that money they have. Remember, back in that time, powerful families sent other than first born sons to the priesthood.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. I do not forgive Ratsy, nor his followers.

For their crimes, and for the vile act of using GLBT men and women as scape goats and distractions for their own horrible actions. They parade around, funding discriminatory laws, meddling in the affairs of nations and states. These child abusers paid for Prop 8, and their followers joined in to help make the smoke screen think. Covering up what they do, by pointing fingers at their neighbors.

[babydollhead]

16. top meets with bottom

[olegramps]

23. The case of Pope John Paul II and Marcial Maciel

Marcial Maciel was the co-founder of the Legions of Christ and Regnum Christi. Dating from 1956 he was investigated numerous times for drugs and sexual offenses including both young women and boys. He was accused of bring on his uncle's heart attack when his uncle confronted him about improper relations with young boys. His uncle who was canonized by the church. Despite the serious charges that were brought by many he remained a close confident of Pope John Paul II. He accompanied him on numerous trips including those to Mexico in 1979, 1990 and 1993. John Paul appointed him to several important post in the Vatican. When several young men accused him of sexual abuse when they were attending the seminary he had founded, John Paul II totally ignored the accusations. It was latter revealed after his death that he had a daughter and may have fathered several other children who have come forth to put claims against his extensive portfolio of valuable property.

While Pope John Paul II refused to take any action against Marcial Maciel, Joesph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, after John Paul death announced that he was "removing filth from the church. " Those close him said that he was referring to Marcial Maciel. In May 2006 Pope Benedict took action and told Maciel that he as to use the remainder of his life "reserved to prayer and penitence" and was relinquished from any form of public ministry. Those who were strenuously pushing for the canonization of John Paul II will have a difficult time silencing the opposition who view him as enabling a known sexual abuser. I have to commend Ratzinger that when he was able, he took decisive action to punish this evil bastard that John Paul had embraced and protected.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. So your idea of proper punishment is 'go to your room'?

Maciel kept his title, his support from the church, and his behind the scenes power. He was not excommunicated, nor jailed, nor fined. He was told to take it easy and ponder.
I once had a long talk with a Carmelite nun. She loved nothing more than spending her life in prayer and penitence and meditation. For her, the 'public ministry' was a thing she did not for herself, but for others. She wanted to live in constant prayer and basically silence. That would be her choice for her whole lifetime, but she felt that was self indulgent.
So the punishment that man got was to some in his church a great reward. Others who do what he did got to prison. He went to his luxury apartment, paid for by the RCC and those who fund it.
Would you support laws here that had such 'punishments' for such crimes? Really?

[Iowa]

33. You nailed it.

[RainDog]

37. the church should be charged with crimes against humanity

the systemic shielding of pedophiles over generations is, in truth, a crime against humanity.

turn the vatican into a museum. those who truly think they are called to serve the needs of the poor and infirm can still do so.

those who think they should live like kings while their congregations live in poverty should rot in jail along with those whose abuse they hid. they wouldn't last long in prison. prisoners hate child fuckers.

[StarlightGold]

24. As a recovering Catholic

I cannot fathom how anyone could defend or still be a part of this institution. What does it take? Child rape and cover-up isn't vile enough? That isn't reason enough to break free? I know that many people have had great experiences from kind, admirable priests/nuns, but isn't that like saying, "Oh, well, as long as these things didn't happen to me, I'll continue to support the church"?

[RainDog]

38. I know. what does it take for someone to finally admit they believe in crap

that is propagated by an organization committed to the abuse of children?

[WildClarySage]

26. Rape a child and find forgiveness

support abortion or get a divorce and its excommunication for you.

[City Lights]

30. !

:thumbsup:

[Vidar]

31. High level cover up to follow.

[toopers]

39. I wish the US would start it's own branch of the Catholic Church . . .

The way the Pope(s) have led the church over the last 20 years has caused considerable problems for all the Catholic Parishes. I would prefer that there be an American Catholic Church that uses the Roman Catholic church for guidelines, but is manage completely separately from the Vatican.