Pope under fire for transfer, letter on sex abuse

[rucky]

Source: Associated Press

VATICAN CITY — Germany's sex abuse scandal has now reached Pope Benedict XVI: His former archdiocese disclosed that while he was archbishop a suspected pedophile priest was transferred to a job where he later abused children.

The pontiff is also under increasing fire for a 2001 Vatican document he later penned instructing bishops to keep such cases secret.

The revelations have put the spotlight on Benedict's handling of abuse claims both when he was archbishop of Munich from 1977-1982 and then the prefect of the Vatican office that deals with such crimes — a position he held until his 2005 election as pope.

And they may lead to further questions about what the pontiff knew about the scope of abuse in his native Germany, when he knew it and what he did about it during his tenure in Munich and quarter-century term at the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jQWrzPjAEtxgfa_tARqu5413A4PAD9EDDLSG0

[Cleobulus]

1. Why isn't this man charged with covering up criminal investigations and obstructing...

justice?

[vadawg]

4. hes got diplomatic immunity and sovereign immunity as well if he travels

and hes in the job until his death pretty much, the holy father is pretty much untouchable when it comes to the law...

[saigon68]

24. The Never Ending Story

[Hekate]

9. The Vatican is its own country, located entirely within the city of Rome

These two links make for some interesting reading.

Hekate

http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/vaticancountry.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/06/world/sovereign-vatican-can-investigate-its-own-crime.html?pagewanted=1

[bleever]

2. The Peter Principle.

In so many ways.

Yes, it's a joke, but a sad and weary one.


In nomine Patris.

[No Elephants]

12. Clever!

[rhett o rick]

3. How is anyone a Catholic today? There is no attempt by the Catholic Church to fix this.

It is far more important to have priests that are to be trusted more than mere mortals, than protect children. This problem has existed for centuries. The church continues to cover it up and not try to fix the problem.

[Kolesar]

17. How else are parents going to teach their children morals?

Unless children think that God is on their shit 24/7?

[rhett o rick]

21. Kids always learn morals. Sometimes they aint good morals.

And that ole 24/7 God shit is soo last century.

[TommyO]

19. Oh, but they are trying to fix it

They're kicking the kids of gay parents out of pre-school!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

41. Sometimes I think the Catholic Church is actively trying to out-bigot the evangelicals.

They're still behind, but not by that much.

[TheMadMonk]

25. For the much the same reason as always.

Belief that it is the path to the afterlife.

Yes the problem has indeed existed for centuries. But it is not the church alone that is responsible for the cover up. Every parent who has punished their kid for saying such awful things about Father O'Leery, owns their own piece of this dirtiness. Even worse are the ones who told (and still tell) their kids that they must submit to the will of the church and with full knowledge sent them back for another ride on the Father's holy sceptre.

Whole communities were in on protecting the church's grubby little secret at all costs. Not just RCs, but across all denominations. FLDS are still at it, as are any number of cults.

[rhett o rick]

29. I guess they think it is a small price to pay to be in good with God. nm

[hisownpetard]

5. What's the scope of the dope on the Pope? Will we ever know? We can only hope.

But I suspect the answer's 'Nope.'

[LiberalFighter]

28. All we need to know is that the Pope is not innnocent. He is evil!

[snake in the grass]

6. The document in question is called...

...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimen_sollicitationis_(document)">Crimen sollicitationis and I'm not surprised that Ratzinger was pissed that it became public. The document outlines the procedure of dealing with a cleric, who has been accused of pedophilia. My favourite line is found in Section 23, last sentence:

"And before he (the accuser) is dismissed, there should be presented to him, an oath of observing the secret, threatening him, if there is a need, with an excommunication reserved to the Ordinary or the Holy See."

If the victim goes public with the story of the crime, he/she can be excommunicated.

Disgusting!

I understand the trappings of religion. It took me many years and a lot of introspection, before I became an atheist. However, I sincerely cannot understand anyone, who, with the knowledge of Crimen sollicitationis, could continue to support and defend the RCC. When they put money in the plate, they contribute to the "hush money" fund, that is used to buy the silence of these violated children and their families. I couldn't live with myself, knowing this.

[olegramps]

22. How much of this disastrous document can also be attributed to John Paul II.

John Paul II was a shrewd politician and when confronted that he was powerful voice behind the scenes in regard to the birth control issue, he attempted to down play his involvement. However, his secretary revealed, with glowing approval, that when he was an Archbishop in Poland he was a major contributor to the encyclical Humane Vitae that restated the church's condemnation of contraception. In regard to Carimen sollicitationis nothing of this magnitude is published without the approval of the pope.

John Paul II attempted to mitigate the church's responsibility of the extensive sexual abuse of minors in the U.S. by saying that it was just another example of exaggerations by the American press. I am not condoning Ratzinger, only that John Paul II apparently was adapt at deflecting any possible criticism. He should have signed Crimen sollicitationis. However, what can you expect from someone who continued to befriend and protect the degenerate bastard Marcial Macier the founder of the Legions of Christ who father a least one daughter, possibly six, and was accused of the abuse of numerous young teenage seminarians. he was such notorious bastard that Ratzinger removed him as head of the order and forbade him to perform any clerical duties. Some believe that he should have taken stronger action, but unfortunately the statue of limitations and diplomatic immunity impedes full justice in too many cases. I would also like to note that several bishops have restricted the Legions of Christ in their dioceses.

"In the United States, bishops have barred or severely restricted the Legion and Regnum Christi in six dioceses: St Paul-Minneapolis, Minnesota; Los Angeles, California; Baton Rouge, Louisiana; Richmond, Virginia; Fort Wayne-South Bend, Indiana; and Columbus, Ohio – because of its recruiting practices. Since 2008, Archbishop Edwin O'Brien of Baltimore has also begun to require greater oversight of the Legion in his archdiocese."

It should not be surprising that Archbishop Chaput of the Denver Archdiocese is the head of the order in the United States. He led an attack on Kerry when he ran for president saying that any Catholic that voted from him was committing a sin and he should be barred from receiving communion. He similarly attacked Obama. There is possibly an up side to all of this in that the fanatics that have siezed control of the Catholic Church are significantly contributing to its demise.

[snake in the grass]

26. The original document was written in 1962 by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani;

well before Karol Wojtyła became pope. However, in 2001, Josef Ratzinger, as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (formerly and infamously known as the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition), updated the first version so that it conformed with the 1983 Code of Canon Law. This document was the De delictis gravioribus. It is certain that Wojtyła knew exactly what was in those papers, in spite of him being pretty much an invalid at that point.

The big problem here, and one the devout will avoid like Satan avoids holy water, is that this practice is a centuries old institution within the RCC. I get into discussions with some, from time to time, and am always accused of being a 'Catholic basher'. They say there are also Rabbis, who molest little boys, but no one is up in arms about that. It's not just the molestation, though, that is the problem. It's the damn cover up of the heinous crimes and intimidation of the victims from the very top, that is insidious. My dogs show more morality and compassion, than these criminals do, and that is not hyperbole.

[hedgehog]

38. John XXIII was concerned that the seal of the confessional

be preserved but he also wanted any priest who used his power to abuse children, men or women out! He had his suspicions about Padre Pio's female groupies and would have conducted an investigation if he'd lived long enough. As if the actions of the clerics aren't evil enough, they have spread a rumor that John XXIII's order into an order for a cover-up. The Right wing figures if it looks like John XXIII will be tarnished, everyone will shut up about this! the BBC fell big time for this, but when you go to the documnet in question you can see the intent.

[Nothing Without Hope]

31. Good post - that one sentence from the document says it all.

Victims threatened with excommunication if they dare to tell anyone of the abuse.

[snake in the grass]

32. Most certainly.

The level of denial within the church amongst its members is truly astonishing. I tend to avoid the word 'evil', because I think it's merely a construct, but I'm really at a loss for words, when it comes to describing the RCC. Evil really fits. There is no other word.

[tomm2thumbs]

7. What secrets is he hiding under that hat?

One doesn't get to be pope without passing off a few child molesters on another parish or two, eh?

[rpannier]

10. I hear he keeps his laundry list under the hat

and a few donuts to snack on when he he gets hungry.

-Father Barry Franciscan Priest in Sacto when he was asked why the Pope's hat looked like it did by a9 year old child

He also told children that the Pope wore those shoes because he was hoping to one day be one of Sanata's Elves

[pattmarty]

13. Nope. It's where he keeps his "Snicker bars" for the little tots.

[Spazito]

8. This pope encapsulates all that is wrong with the Catholic organization, imo...

It is a rapacious, for-profit organization that protects that which it pretends to condemn.

[BlueMTexpat]

11. This isn't unexpected from the one who was

formerly in charge of the present-day office of the Inquisition before he became Pope.

I was a "cradle Catholic," but have fallen completely out of that cradle and far from it. Please make no mistake, however, I still believe that the preponderance of those who practice the principles of that faith or who are members of the clergy are good people. Most of those I know are among the most superb of human beings. I have just not been able to achieve their level of reconciliation with the principles and the practice. And the fact that pedophiles (and other abusers) were protected at the highest levels while their victims were further victimized (threatened with excommunication just to keep the dirty little secret, indeed!) ... and continue to be ... is totally unforgivable. This Pope has no shame whatsoever.

But it is not just Catholicism that I have "fallen away" from. I am agnostic. IMO, all religions should be grouped under the broad umbrella of "theology" and taught to all as a branch of philosophy. Besides, "Christianity" as a religion is a misnomer. "Christianity," as all too often practiced both in the past and even today, doesn't follow or even resemble the teachings of Christ. "Get-mine-firstism" would be more accurate based on what we see daily.

Further, I abhor anyone who perverts and manipulates ANY religion to accomplish goals or actions that are patently wrong. IMO, most of the evils being perpetrated on innocents today use religion as their excuse.

[LuckyLib]

27. Well said. A cradle Catholic as well, once I began to look at the RC church as

a "cult" it all began to make sense. We humans choose some very strange ways to comfort ourselves and to give life "meaning" -- but really, Catholics are only different in flavor and practice from Mormons, evangelical Baptists, etc.

[newspeak]

37. before Ratzy was pope, wasn't there something about him being

the one to cover said crimes? I mean this was before he became pope. And, to think they could have voted for someone from SA who believed in social justice and was more liberal--but no, they had to vote for the "cover up" pope. I guess it tells you which way they church is going, and it ain't up.

[Ian David]

14. Well, I'm glad *I* didn't vote for him. n/t

[Kolesar]

16. You don't *vote* for a Pope! ... eom

[pipoman]

20. LOL

King Arthur: I am your king.
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
*Angelic music plays*
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Sound familiar? Just no smoke...

[Kolesar]

23. For 38 years, I have been wondering what "samite" is

I suppose I could google it now. Did you know that Graham Chapman was drunk through the entire shooting of Holy Grail? He sure played the part well.

I am sure that the Marxist peasants scene was my favorite scene in the movie.

[rhett o rick]

34. Isnt the Pope a dictator? nt

[newspeak]

39. actually the cardinals do vote for the pope

at the vatican. Or discuss who will be the next pope. How do you think they chose the pope and who is in line for the position?

[No Elephants]

15. Cardinal Law, who once seemed destined to be the first Pope from the U.S.,

was in charge of, among other things, dealing with pedophile priests in Massachusetts while John Paul was Pope. He transferred them from parish to parish, too.

The Boston Globe and others began publishing stories. Cardinal Law said, "By all means we call down God’s power on the media, particularly the Globe." http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/extras/laws_responses.htm

Hundreds of cases were involved. One hundred accused Father Porter of sexual abuse in the 1960's from various parishes in Fall River, MA alone. Who knows how many died or chose not to come forward?

Lawsuits were filed. Cardinal Law dealt with them. People clamored for his resignation. After resisting for quite a while, Law finally resigned as Archbishop of Boston and went to live in Maryland, serving as chaplain of a small convent.

About a year after Law's resignation, Pope John Paul honored Cardinal Law with a transfer to the Vatican, where he was honored as a "respected member of the Church and lived a luxurious life. http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/extras/laws_responses.htm ; http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/our_man_in_rome/

Transferring pedophile priests to fresh parishes (with fresh batches of unsuspecting victims and parents) and extracting promises of secrecy from them and their victims was, apparently, not a thankless job.

[Wizard777]

18. Pope Benedict XVI is on the right track. The truth must be established.

[rhett o rick]

30. So you are implying that the Pope is seeking the truth? Do you have anything to back that up?

I mean, he would be going against centuries of church policy. Apparently children are a small sacrifice to pay to maintain the sanctity of the priesthood and "The Church". The church preaches that priests are holier than mere men and therefore can and should be trusted. To solve this problem, parishioners must be taught that priests are mere men and can succumb to the same temptations as mere men. But, if they do that, their whole house of cards may crash down around their fascist ears.

[saigon68]

33. Disgusting Criminals in Dresses

The Diocese issued the following the statement:

"The Diocese of Green Bay is disappointed with the courts’ ruling that Indiana Insurance Company does not have to provide insurance coverage for two civil lawsuits filed against the Diocese – one in Outagamie County and one in Clark County, Nevada. The Diocese of Green Bay is adamant that it did not willfully commit fraud in the assignment of former priest, John Feeney. Because these matters are still in litigation, the Diocese will have no further comment at this time."

Barbara Dorris, the St. Louis outreach director of SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, issued the following statement. "This judge has found what victims and Catholics have known for years: Catholic officials knowingly, repeatedly concealed clergy child sex crimes. These weren't 'accidents' or 'mistakes' or 'misjudgments.' Top church staffers deliberately hid felonies and endangered kids. Why should insurance companies financially reward such inexcusable criminal conduct?

[Joe Chi Minh]

35. Ms Winfield doesn't appear to have mentioned this claim, made

by "one of the bishops closest to Benedict", in the Guardian article on the subject, linked below:

"He (Muller) lashed out at Germany's justice minister, Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger, who had talked of a Catholic wall of secrecy. Müller said she belonged to a humanist association which he claimed was a kind of "masonry" that "considers paedophilia normal and wants to decriminalise it".

Cold comfort to Benedict's exultant critics, hideous though the clerical cover-up culture has been.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/13/vatican-defends-pope-munich-abuse

[RainDog]

36. Müller is the bishop for the Regensburg area who is trying to deflect blame from the ratfucker's bro

He is making unfounded claims against this woman.

But the SICK thing on your part is that you are, apparently, trying to make the claim that ALL THE PEDOPHILES in the catholic church, including those already investigated in the 1990s are invalid because of this SICK FUCKER's unsubstantiated claims.

Pedophile claims started in Germany AFTER the Irish investigations.

Have you ever considered how sick you might be to try to defend the abuse of children by these criminals?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

40. You want sick? I'll give you sick.

Here are that poster's views on homosexuality. With link. And don't get me started on what he thinks of atheists. Emphasis mine.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=275&topic_id=6904#6941

Joe Chi Minh
Sat Oct-17-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I should at least say that the idea that homosexuality is a genetic

inheritance like melanin is absurd. What about bisexuals, men who want to fornicate with their car or the pavement? Both have happened in the UK. Errol Flynn is said, latterly at least, to have been a pederast. What about the bisexual Casanova? Did they have a hormonal or genetic aberrancy? And the 300 lb cons in the prisons? What about them? Or did promiscuous lust eventually get the better of them? It is not flesh and blood we are fighting against, is it, but rather the Principalities and Powers.
Ironically, the more worldly-wise and educated the homosexual militant, the more he will simplify the issue to the nth degree. The man-in-the-steet would be ashamed to try and put over such palpable nonsense.

I don't say, of course, that a genetic aberrancy could never be a factor, but I have read nothing to suggest that that young woman had different feelings for the opposite sex than other girls. Certainly testosterone is know to heighten the female libido. In the early sixties, I knew an Austrian lad who was a hermaphrodite, but although he claimed he had "w*nker's doom" (very funny to hear him mutter it in a thick Austrian accent), was always chatting up the nurses and giving me hints on how to do it (Once again, I play the jerk, admirably!), who neither looked feminine nor acted in a feminine way.

Apparently, his father had been a fairly senior police officer, so I expect his parents were at least as socially conservative and authoritarian as most others. So, unsurprisingly, family influence and imprinting must play a major role in the psychology of what the Church has always taught to be the only proper gender orientation and healthy family unit.

Then, on top of that, there is the question of what we perceive as morally beautiful and morally ugly, and our response to it.
Of course, it is perfectly natural for atheists, presumably all materialists, to reject this traditional Christian viewpoint. And that exemplifies why our life in this world is characteriszed in scripture as a vast spiritual warfare. Above our Edinburgh police HQ, today, they fly the "homosexuality is diversity" flag. It seems that "live and let live" is not an option" as far as the militant homosexuals are concerned. They must rule. And in the UK, certainly Scotland, they do.

[TerribleLarryDingle]

42. Pope on a rope.