Poland Feels Shock at the Size of Its Loss

[Dover]

Source: NYT




WARSAW — On a chilly April night, thousands of Poles wandered the historic old town of the capital city, their way lighted by a multitude of flickering flames, candles in the red and white colors of the Polish flag burning at their feet.

The people were of all ages and political persuasions, families and groups of boys and girls in scouting uniforms. If there were no answers to be found Saturday night as to why the country had been robbed of many of its brightest minds and most dedicated public servants, Poles could at least find reassurance in the presence of so many others in the same searching state of shock.

Pawel Skoczylas, 26, a clerk, said that he had come to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Pilsudski Square to mourn those killed “because I’m a patriot, because I’m a Catholic, because I’m a citizen of Poland, because I’m just a man, a person.”

His voice trembled as he spoke. Like many of those out in the streets, he said he had difficulty talking about something he had not yet fully grasped...cont'd

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/europe/11warsaw.html?ref=world

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Body of Polish President Is Flown Back to Warsaw



Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the twin brother of President Lech Kaczynski of Poland, kneeled before the coffin at the airport in Warsaw on Sunday.


WARSAW — With the country in mourning, the body of Poland’s president was returned to this traumatized capital on Sunday, a day after he and dozens of top Polish political and military leaders died in a plane crash in western Russia.

Russian and Polish investigators began Sunday to analyze evidence from the flight recorders in the crash, which killed 96 people when the presidential plane went down about a half mile from the runway in the Russian city of Smolensk. The Polish delegation was on its way to take part in a ceremony there to commemorate the Soviet massacre of more than 20,000 members of Poland’s elite officer corps 70 years ago.

In Warsaw, senior Polish officials sought to reassure the public that the government would continue to function normally despite the tremendous loss...cont'd

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world/europe/12poland.html?ref=world

[LakeSamish706]

1. Very sad for the Polish people. Not something they will get over easily. n/t

[Paper Roses]

2. The citizens of Poland have suffered as much as any country in history.

From this horrible tragedy, I hope comes some good news for the future.

I feel for these people. What a horrible loss.

[No Elephants]

11. +1

[philly_bob]

27. +2

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. It's an incredible loss...

I am relieved to hear that contingency plans have been implemented...

I suppose every competent government must have them.

[Swede]

4. A real body blow to the Polish people.

But they will come through this.

[Merlot]

5. What sad circumstances...

"The Polish delegation was on its way to take part in a ceremony there to commemorate the Soviet massacre of more than 20,000 members of Poland’s elite officer corps 70 years ago."

That they should be killed going to the same country that massacred 20k of their officers is tragic indeed.

[conturnedpro09]

6. A million prayers for Poland.

I feel so very, very sorry for this wonderful country.

[bertman]

7. This a tragedy of immense proportions for Poland. I wish the people of Poland the best

in weathering this catastrophe.

What I keep asking myself is how could any country have such poor security protocols that they would allow so many key leaders to get on one aircraft? That seems like a policy error off the Richter scale for policy errors.

Then again, I watch our entire Congress, the President, Vice President, the Cabinet, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, most of the Supreme court all gathered in the Capital for the State of the Union and marvel that it is allowed. The scope of security for that event must be mind boggling.

[Dover]

9. Yes, that has puzzled me as well. And also puzzling is the pilot's refusal to abide by

the instructions of the air traffic control (or whoever it was) that advised them NOT to land
there due to poor conditions, but rather to change their landing destination to another airport. I'd assume they would opt to err on the side of extreme caution, particularly considering the importance of their passenger list.

I have also wondered about the safety of our Congress, and admittedly became suspicious when,
during the Bush administration, they emptied the government buildings due to what were purportedly terror threats. I wondered what they were doing in those buildings while they stood empty. I was in a very dark head space at that time and was particularly suspicious of Bushco's interests in forming a secret parallel government (which first came to light during the whole Iran/Contra episode). That, and all their rhetoric(?) about drowning the government in a bathtub (Norquist) - which also struck me as odd since the government grew under Bushco.

[Jennicut]

10. One person from the Cabinet is always left behind during the SOTU address but

it would be a real disaster if they were all wiped out.

[No Elephants]

12. In the event of a bomb on the Capitol building, that one cabinet member would have to be very

versatile--the President and VP, Speaker of the House, (the top 3 in Succession), all other House members, all Senators, the entire SCOTUS, military brass, prominent citizens. Maybe we should re-think that one.

[Jennicut]

13. I agree. Or they could become a dictator-type

quite easily. Or, not be taken all that legitimately with no one else in power to back them up. This has got me worried now. Maybe the VP or Speaker should stay home during the SOTU!

[boppers]

22. It doesn't work that way.

Since the 50's, we've had programs in place to manage the government in the event of a nuclear strike(!) on DC. The token cabinet member is more of a public perception issue than anything else.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_government
and:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_Operations_Plan

[Demeter]

18. That Depends on the Administration, Of Course

We would have been much better off as a nation and an economy, had the W Administration come to an early and irrevocable end.

[PatSeg]

16. That was my first thought

when I saw the photos of the passengers. Why all on the same plane?

[Sheltiemama]

26. Air Force One is worth every penny we pay for it.

I keep trying to imagine what it would be like if we were in Poland's shoes.

Of course, it's easier for the Secret Service to secure the premises and control access at the State of the Union. And I don't think that many of our leaders would ever be allowed on one plane.

[midnight]

31. Yes... And why would Russia prevent so many key leaders from landing

after four requests?

[ellie]

8. That's terrible!

[No Elephants]

14. I bet the President's twin could, if he wished, win the next election, or "anoint " someone

to win. Imagine if JFK's assassination had included Jackie and all these other players--and JFK had a surviving twin. (Not saying this is an assassination--no clue).

Let's pray or cross our fingers or send light or whatever that no evil opportunist sees this terrible tragedy as an opportunity of any kind for him or her.

ETA: Amazing. Almost every face in the phot in the OP has the identical expression and affect.

[Dover]

20. Apparently Kaczynski had lost popularity and was trailing far behind his opponent in the polls.

The repercussions of the crash on Poland’s coming presidential elections were not clear. The Law and Justice Party lost numerous important leaders in addition to the president, including its parliamentary leader. Mr. Kaczynski had been trailing far behind his opponent in the polls, but the outpouring of sympathy from the mourning public might benefit his party in the moved-up presidential election.

Under Poland’s Constitution, the leader of the lower house of Parliament, now acting president, has 14 days to announce new elections, which must then take place within 60 days.

[izquierdista]

24. I bet you know nothing about Poland

Kurwa.

[Uncle Joe]

15. This was a most terrible loss for the people of Poland.

I wish them the best in their national leadership recovery.

Thanks for the thread, Dover.

[lunatica]

17. It's bizarre that now there have been two countries whose leadership

have been wiped out so suddenly. Haiti and now Poland. Does anyone know of any other time when this happened?

They're not the same since one was a natural disaster caused by nature and the other was an accident. It just strikes me as very odd as if the law of averages is changing.

[Odin2005]

19. I feel very bad for the Poles.

:(

[Dover]

21. So Tusk, the Polish PM was invited by Putin to the "massacre ceremony" but NOT Kaczynski.

The second article in the OP states:


Relations between Moscow and Warsaw had long been strained, but Mr. Putin had taken a major step toward improving them by joining Poland’s prime minister, Donald Tusk, to commemorate the massacre’s anniversary last week. Mr. Putin was the first Russian or Soviet leader to do so.

Mr. Kaczynski, 60, was a pugnacious nationalist who often clashed with Russia. He was not invited to the Russian-Polish ceremony on Wednesday at Katyn. Instead, he decided to attend a separate, Polish-organized event on Saturday.

[Massacure]

23. For some reason the 2004 election debates come to mind

Nobody is going to forget Poland today though.

[radhika]

25. For some reason the death of Ron Brown comes to mind...

April 1996. US Secretary of Commerce under Clinton. He and a plane full of major US business leaders died in a plane crash at Dubrovnik, Yugoslavia. Attributed to bad weather.

Unresolved questions emerged, including autopsy photos purportedly showing a bullet in Ron's skull.

[proteus_lives]

28. The connection to the Katyn Massacre is heart-breaking.

[chill_wind]

29. What a terrible emotional toll for the people.

So sad for their tragedy.

[BlueIris]

30. Terrible. nt