Geithner says economy growing faster than expected

[NJmaverick]

Source: ssociated Press

WASHINGTON – Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner (GYT'-nur) says the economy is growing faster than the Obama administration expected.
He tells NBC's "Meet the Press" that the country is on the way to sustained job creation. But he acknowledges that unemployment may remain high, close to 10 percent.
Geithner says there's more confidence in the business world, and he says the private sector is growing. He also says people are spending more.
He said he sees encouraging signs that should make Americans confident the country will emerge stronger.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100418/ap_on_bi_ge/us_geithner_economy;_ylt=ApPeeQ3UjaKxukt0OlMiXFSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNqcjJxbHNmBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNDE4L3VzX2dlaXRobmVyX2Vjb25vbXkEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMyBHBvcwM4BHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N

[ClarkUSA]

1. He gave a good accounting on Meet The Press this morning.

It's clear that Team Obama is on top of things. Derivative trading will never be the same again after the financial reform bill is passed.

[ixion]

2. lol

yeah, right. :rofl:

So this is what passes for 'fact' these days, eh? :eyes:

Geithner belongs in jail, in my opinion.

[NJmaverick]

3. How long will you continue to deny reality?

[ixion]

6. Okay, we'll see who's denying reality

if things improve, and I mean really improve, I will be ecstatic to admit I was wrong.

But when the insolvent too-big-to-fail banks finally admit that they're insolvent, when the next wave of Option-ARM and Alt-A resets kicks into full gear, when the commercial real estate market melts down, I'll expect the same from you. Fair enough?

[NJmaverick]

8. "if things improve, and I mean really improve, I will be ecstatic to admit I was wrong."

I have to say I seriously doubt that will happen.

[ixion]

13. heh

shows what you know. ;)

[Lost4words]

52. Hi, ixion, I think I may have misjudged you. You are worthy of respect!

I salute you.


:yourock:

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

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[HughMoran]

84. nice personal attack

see, I knew we wouldn't be agreeing more than once ;)

[TheWatcher]

88. Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Telling someone they "love ignorance and hate" is just as much of a personal attack, by the way.

[jpak]

53. Doooommm! DOOOOMMMM! Obama must FAAIIILLLL!!111

:rofl:

[Zynx]

59. What were you expecting the economy to be doing now this time last year?

I bet it was more dire than what has transpired.

[Coyote_Bandit]

4. Once again

improvement in the economy is being measured in Wall Street terms rather than Main Street terms.

[NJmaverick]

5. That is a cute but utterly inaccurate statement

Manufacturing is up as is growth in GDP and consumer demand AS WELL as the stock market (which aids those with mutual fund or living on 401Ks).

[RC]

7. And our unemployment rate is still 10%

What are we manufacturing besides war toys? I'd like to see some statistics on regaining our living wage jobs. I'm betting we ain't doing good there.

[NJmaverick]

9. What is the last measure to recover after a major economic downturn?

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. And just exactly how

do you measure that "recovery"?

It doesn't matter if the official unemployment rate falls if the labor force participation rate doesn't recover. That just might suggest that (1) more folks would be working if there were greater opportunity and (2) the method of calculating unemployment or selecting that sample to survey has changed.

And it doesn't matter if the official unemployment rate falls if jobs paying an average of $75k annually are replaced with jobs paying an average of $24k annually.

Availability of jobs to the population and the quality of jobs available have been declining for a long time. The so-called recovery that followed the last couple of recessions never demonstrated jobs recovery because the labor force participation rate did not recover nor did the quality of the work that returned. But, hey, you can pretend......

[DCBob]

48. I think it is inevitable that we will end up with a reduction in our living standards ..

as globalization continues and other nations become more competitive. Furthermore, the economy during the Bush era was bogus since it was based on overvalued real estate and an out-of-control stock market pushing risky investments. Jobs were plentiful and well paid but many were not "real". It is not easy replacing those jobs lost, especially at the same level of pay.

[harkadog]

23. How many years will you continue to say that?

[totodeinhere]

36. By my definition, the only good measure of economic recovery is unemployment.

Only when unemployment goes down, which it hasn't so far, will there really be a bona fide recovery. I always said that when a Republican was in the White House, and just because a Dem is in there now I see no reason to change my tune.

[SOS]

61. "After" an economic downturn?

It's just beginning.

Extend and pretend policies are creating a climate for persistent, long term global economic decline.
This downturn will persist for years.

Gretchen Morgenson details the catastrophe (and the phony numbers being released by the Fed) in today's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/business/economy/18gret.html

Andrew Haldane, executive director for financial stability at the Bank of England:
"Low-ball accountings are almost certainly an underestimate of the damage to the wider economy as a result of the crisis."

And is it a coincidence that all this happy talk is emanating from the Fed during the week of April 15?

[Demeter]

63. Tax Revenues at the Local Level

[galileoreloaded]

70. You would think that would shut em up, but sadly no. nt

[OhioChick]

16. +1

Unemployment rises in 24 states

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8167044

Ohio hit 11% in March, highest unemployment since '83.

[NJmaverick]

18. Unemployment dropped in 17 states and unless you factor in population

the idea of counting the number of states is a poor one.

[totodeinhere]

37. So we don't factor in population? LOL. Population is what this is all about.

We are talking about the unemployed population. Get it?

[NJmaverick]

38. Do you understand that counting the number of states negates any population factor?

[totodeinhere]

41. Yes I understand that and I say that it's irrelevant. You are just playing with numbers to try to...

make a bad situation look better, but nobody is falling for your shell game. After all, the people in those small states with higher unemployed rates count too. I am in one of those states myself. It is still a depression around here where I am. Please take off your rose colored glasses.

[Coyote_Bandit]

11. Ummmm......

You just frickin proved my point.

You didn't say a word about the jobs that are important on Main Street where folks full-time jobs often don't pay a living wage and offer no benefits or retirement plans. Where folks are losing jobs and not being able to replace them. Where folks are going without healthcare and, yes, dying, because their job - or lack thereof - doesn't permit them to secure the most basic physical care. Where folks are working multiple part-time jobs because they can't get a full-time job that pays the bills. Where unemployed folks are liquidating a lifetime of savings and falling into homelessness.

And some fucker says that the economy is improving - but we should expect unemploymet to continue at the same level. That dumbshit is praising economic measures that have meaning to the Wall Street and financial folks. Those measures aren't worth shit to the Main Street folks who are suffering due to the poor jobs outlook.

Yeah, I know that employment is a lagging indicator. Seems that it lags so much that the jobs - and quality of work and compensation - that was lost in the last couple of recessions have never been replaced. The current corporate loyalists in office give me no reason to expect anything different this time aroud. The bastards are more concerned about Wall Street than Main Street. The clusterfuck of INSURANCE reform - and the financial windfall to health insurers - proves that corporate Amerikkka is more imporetant to them than flesh and blood citizens. And the Supreme Court is more than willing to rubber stamp that choice of priorities.

[NJmaverick]

12. As you should know jobs are the last indicator to recover from a major economic down turn

the economy has be be improving before companies will start to hire.

[Coyote_Bandit]

15. See my post above

You are kidding yourself.

Nobody is trying to fix our economic challenges. They are just trying to duct tape Hmpty Dumpty tgether again so he can continue shopping and buying a bunch of chea imported crap. It will all be better when we are able to go on another debt financed consumer spending spree.

There are a few very basic things that have to happen top fix our fucked up economy:
(1) we have to learn to value real productivity over wealth creation and consumption - which means we have to value and do dirty work;
(2) we have to re-build the infrastructure to support real productivity;
(3) we have to re-build manufacturing and technical industries and production here in the US using domestic labor and goods;
(4) we have to be willing to set and enforce limits on the size and growth of the mega-corporations in order to insure a competitive economic environment;
(5) we have to be willing to make the resources available to encourage the creation and growth of new, small and mid-size businesses;
(6) we have to address what is still a fucked up healthcare system full of inequities and incapable of serving everyone;
(7) we have to recognize that resources are limited and that maybe just maybe devoting a smaller proportion of our assets to the military industrial complex and ongoing police actions around the world just might be a good thing; and
(8) we have to address the inequities of a tax code that has largely shifted the tax burden from corporate profits to middle class citizens.

The dumbasses we've elected lack the brains, the guts, and the will to even begin to try to fix our economy. And why tjhe hell should they? They aren't from Main Street. When they leave office they won't return to Main Street. They will be part of the wealthy rulin elite. And they are looking out for themselves.......

[NJmaverick]

17. What you suggest sounds good on paper

the problem is that you are dealing with the real world with real people. To totally blow up our current economic system and start over (which is the net result of your suggestions) there would be unemployment and economic devastation on a scale that would even exceed the great depression. You have to work WITH what you have and make it better, the idea that we can simply start over with a better system is an impractical one.

[GameChanger]

19. Meanwhile, companies like GE pay no taxes on billions in profits.

The economy is definitely recovering for them.

Saturday, April 17, 2010
After Getting Bailed Out By American Taxpayers, General Electric Pays ZERO U.S. Taxes, Pretending that All of Its Profits are Overseas

General Electric got bailed out by American taxpayers.
Specifically, it was given $139 billion in FDIC guarantees and used the Federal Reserve program supporting it's commercial paper (see this).

So you'd think that GE would return the favor by paying American taxes, right?

Wrong. GE paid no U.S. taxes for 2009.

As CNN points out:
GE had plenty of earnings last year -- just not in the United States. For tax purposes, the company's U.S. operations lost $408 million, while its international businesses netted a $10.8 billion profit.

Unfortunately, GE is not alone.

The Washington Post notes:
About two-thirds of corporations operating in the United States did not pay taxes annually from 1998 to 2005, according to a new report scheduled to be made public today from the U.S. Government Accountability Office...

In 2005, about 28 percent of large corporations paid no taxes...

Dorgan and Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.) requested the report out of concern that some corporations were using "transfer pricing" to reduce their tax bills. The practice allows multi-national companies to transfer goods and assets between internal divisions so they can record income in a jurisdiction with low tax rates...

Levin said: "This report makes clear that too many corporations are using tax trickery to send their profits overseas and avoid paying their fair share in the United States."
Indeed, as Pulitzer prize winning journalist David Cay Johnston documents, American multinationals pay much less in taxes than they should through a variety of widespread schemes, including:

You can read how corporations are manipulating their profits to avoid taxes at:
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/


Yes, I'd say the big corporations are very happy with their "economic recovery."

Meanwhile, an old friend of mine who used to work for a big contact lens company's Clearwater, FL facility was recently laid off and is now working at Wal-Mart because SHE REFUSED TO GO BACK TO WORK FOR THEM AFTER BEING LET GO AS A TEMP WORKER, DOING HER OLD JOB. No benefits, no vacation pay, NO HEALTH INSURANCE and working for less money.

Seems the only ones recovering are the big corporations and the richest 1 per centers.

[NJmaverick]

22. I would expect this sort of thing will be dealt with, once the economy is sound

[harkadog]

24. In a time and land far, far, away ......

[Zhade]

80. Do you even think before you post? Reread what you just said.

These kinds of corporate shenanigans are hurting the economy RIGHT NOW, yet you think it's wise to wait to address them until the economy magically gets better?

That's akin to a doctor saying he won't treat a patient until an infection clears up.

If someone's paying you for this drivel, they're getting ripped off.

[northzax]

93. Sure, perhaps GE didn't pay taxes

Directly. However, as a shareholder, I did on the dividends my shares paid me. So did every other shareholder. Including, of course, pretty much anyone who has a mutual fund. In fact, this appears to be the last year I will pay taxes on dividends from GE, as my final shares enter my own personal tax shelter, never to be taxed again for my lifetime and that of whoever gets what might left after I die. That could concievably be 100 years (or that person could roll my shelter into his or her own and start the clock all over again. Sounds shady, right? Or just a Roth IRA.

[Coyote_Bandit]

20. Sooooooo.......

I should just be willing to accept more of the same shit? I should tolerate a consumer based economy that values wealth creation and consumption over real productivity and the stability it brings? That may be your choice but it is not mine.

We used to live in a nation that had an economy much like what I described. We got where we are gradually over an extended period of time. We could reclaim what we lost - again gradually over time. But we have to have leaders with the brains and the guts and the personal and political will to take the first step. We don't.

Sometimes we really do get what we deserve. And our choices have been such that we as a nation deserve a failed economy. That might not be such a bad thing. Failed economies can't be fixed. They disintegrate into destruction and are replaced. Who is to say that the economic costs of an economic catastrophe exceeds the incremental economic costs that many are currently incurring. One thing is damn sure, economic loss would be shared over a much broader proportion of the population in a catastrophe. Right now we can avert our eyes and avoid facing the economic losses that the less fortunate in our society are currently bearing often through no fault of their own.

Apparently, we really are a spineless nation unwilling to contend for meaningful change. No wonder we elect gutless cowards who dare not challenge our corporate overlords. We apparently are happy with talk of hope and change. But when it gets down to the dirty work of actually implementing it then we must continually lower our expectations and demands until we are willing to accept whatever crumbs our corporate overlords are willig to throw our way. That's ewxactly my take on the healthcare reform clusterfuck. Seems like economic recovery is gping to go the same way. RIP hope and change. The administration of your spokesman has proven to be nothing more than a lost opportunity.

[NJmaverick]

21. "we have to have leaders with the brains " They don't make them much smarter than President Obama

he is brilliant by any measure of intelligence. So I think you build your premise on a poor foundation.

[cowman]

26. No, he's not

he's a fucking corporist, just like every fucking politician in DC. They should ALL be voted out and we should elect people who have the courage to make the tough choices, not people who think a corporation is to big to fail

[NJmaverick]

30. My teachers, then my employers always tell me how smart I am

Testing also indicates well above average intelligence. I went to one of the best colleges in the nation. Yet, I am not even in the same league as our President. If you can't see his brilliance you are truly lost

[cowman]

31. Obviously you

think he can do no wrong. I stand by my statement. And I don't really care what college you went to. Sounds like you are tooting your own horn. My school was the school of hard knocks, now I'll toot my horn a little, been a Firefighter/Paramedic with Las Vegas Fire And Rescue for 35 years now and I think I'm smarter than Pres Obama. I definitely having buyer's remorse for my vote for him

[NJmaverick]

33. Your claims against the President being stupid is beyond ridiculous

Which indicates that you are the one with an issue where the President can do no right.

PS- I appreciate your background. I am closing in on my 25th years as a volunteer EMT/Rescue Tech

[cowman]

44. I never said he was stupid

He is not "brilliant", he's just another politician who happened to have a good campaign message. I do think he has done some good things like ending the war in Iraq, extending unemployment benefits and taking it to the repubs when they are wrong, but he is no smarter than say Pres Clinton who I thought was a great Pres.

Congrats on 25 years as a Volunteer EMT/Rescue . The town I live in, about 55 miles NW of Las Vegas used to have an all volunteer FD and I would volunteer my time when I could but when they went paid union, my union said I could no longer volunteer which I thought was horseshit, but, I'm retiring in Sept. so I will volunteer with them again just to keep my Paramedics license active.
Keep up the good work with your EMT/Resvue

[NJmaverick]

50. That's odd on the volunteer issue

We have a hybrid paid/volunteer squad now. As I understand it the only restriction is you can't volunteer for the same organization you work with. This makes sense to some degree as you wouldn't want companies to have the ability to force employees to "volunteer"

[cowman]

64. What happened was

that the local union complained to my union that I was taking away a potential paid position by volunteering, so my union said to stop which was sad because the local FD lost an experienced FF/Para. I've talked to the local Fire Chief who will wholeheartedly welcome me back once I have retired from Las Vegas FD

[uppityperson]

91. Of course you think you are smarter than President Obama honey.

[RC]

32. It doesn't matter what Obama's IQ is, he is still a corporatist.

We need someone in there to rein the corporations in, not bail them out.

[NJmaverick]

34. His background was one of service to others, not working for big business

which would indicate your charges of being a "corporists" are false. In fact the idea that people are corporists indicate an unreasoned hatred for corporations. Most people want to regulate corporations to prevent them from hurting our society. People that create labels like "corporists" are not really well versed in economic theory, as they would see there no effective alternative.

[goclark]

68. Like? Let me guess ~

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[Iowa]

46. Some of the most brilliant people would fuck-up a two-car funeral...

Brilliance in the absence of other key characteristics is largely useless.

[Iowa]

45. Well said Coyote_Bandit...

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[DCBob]

47. The basic goal of the initial rescue plan was to "duct tape Humpty Dumpty"..

Once the we got out of free-fall then we can focus on real reform.. which is what is beginning to happening now.

[cowman]

25. Unemployment rose

again in NV and first time unemployment claims rose 24,000 last week. If you want to stick your head in the sand go ahead. The only place that jobs are being created is the Fed Govt and when a govt job pays better than a private sector jobs, something is sadly wrong

[totodeinhere]

39. Oh am I glad to see you say this. You are right on. n/t

[Lost4words]

57. Great Post! We are dying out here and Washington thinks things are OK

[cowman]

65. I've come to the conclusion

that the beltway bandits have no clue what is really going on in the rest of the country

[galileoreloaded]

10. I agree, growing way to fast. Better put on the brakes or we are gonna crash!!

Seriously though, what else can he say "We always told you you would get a Social Security check, but we never told you it would buy more than three loaves of bread"

Honestly, he and the other gatekeepers of the plutocracy have a tough job, and they are doing well. Buying time for allllll the nest feathering going on right now at every level of society. The velocity of money is abysmal, and all they can do is gerrymander the census, economically speaking.

If it wasn't so sad, this could be easily viewed as a pathetically transparent attempt to avoid Greece and Argentinian style riots.

People think he is incompetent, but he isn't. He is the PERFECT person for that job. Transfer, deflect and evade. He ought to teach a class.

[cowman]

27. Hear Hear

And Geitner is a fucking idiot. I really wonder if he actually believes the garbage he spews

[The Northerner]

49. +1

[ProudDad]

28. Slight rise in the inevitable decline

The phony capitalist "economy", based as it is on cheap oil, is dying.



We have just witnessed another big dip in the curve ('08 to now) and are now witnessing a slight uptick but the trend is DOWN, DOWN, DOWN.

We are IN the Long Emergency where the triple-threat of Post-peak-oil, Catastrophic Climate destabilization (caused in great part by burning fossil fuels) and the decline of the industrial growth system (based on the fallacious assumption that there's an infinite amount of resources to exploit and an infinite space (land fills) to put the shit that is the end product of that exploitation).

Get used to it folks! This is the end of the ride.

The capitalist industrial growth model is dead!

And good riddance to it!

www.transitionus.org
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
http://postpeakliving.com/peak-oil-primer

[AlphaCentauri]

29. Once oil is gone we are going back to XVI century n/t

[DCBob]

40. More likely early 19th century when coal was king..

We have enough coal to keep most shit going for a long long time... of course our environment will suffer tremendously.

[GameChanger]

35. How can you have recovery with 40 million on food stamps?

We have 40 million Americans on food stamps.

Another 15 million are unemployed and another 9 million are working part-time but would like full-time work.

Last month the U.S. saw the largest number of foreclosure filings on record.

We have 6 people for every 1 job opening. Last month a company moving to Tampa advertised a job fair for approximately 40 openings. Over 2500 people showed up. Some had been out of work for over a year or more. Many had degrees and couldn't find work because they are overqualified for the available jobs at McDonalds or Wal-Mart and therefore those companies won't hire them.

The top one percent control 42 percent of all financial wealth. The stock market rally benefits mainly the absolute top, wealthiest segment of our population.

That is why the majority of Americans have no faith in the "recovering" economy. Why should they when much of those profits were gained by firing workers or making them work more hours for less pay and benefits?

This is not a recovery but rather the transfer of wealth from working Americans to a small group at the top. It is the destruction of the Middle Class. Working Americans get it. Why do you think the Tea Party has picked up so many supporters? Americans are angry about the loss of their economic stability.

We are headed into an economic feudalism in which a few have all and the rest have nothing. This is not by accident.

[DCBob]

42. This is good news but jobs and real estate are still hanging a cloud over this recovery.

I also think this will be an extremely uneven recovery where some cities and regions will do much better than others. I think the unemployed in the worst areas may have to move to where the jobs are.

[Lost4words]

54. Timmy G says there are improvements, and you guys believe him?

wow,..........:wow:

[DCBob]

60. No need to take TG's words.. it's fairly obvious if you just open your eyes..

Can you honestly say you cannot see an improvement between now and and 1 year ago?

[Lost4words]

62. There you go again DCBob,

well my state is about to release about 2000 workers. so no I dont see it.. Bob, I used to live in Arlington VA, just across the river from DC. I lived and worked there for 27 years, all as an adult. Metro DC is pretty much recession proof due to the govt being a major employer in the area. It is no longer as recession proof as it was but compared to the rest of the country, pretty much.

If the mood in DC is picking up its probably due to all the lobbyist getting their way after a big scare on HCR.

[cowman]

67. Sure theres improvement

if you work for the Fed Govt but as far as state and local and private, it's gotten worse not better, case in point, LVFR has graduated 2 academies and no one has been hired because of the massive budget shortfall, the numbers the fed puts out are cooked to make DC look like it knows what it's doing, and I'm blaming all pols not just one party. N. Las Vegas FD just laid off 16 FF and LVFR and Clark County FD are looking at layoffs also so don't give me that crap that the economy is getting better, all I see is it getting worse

[DCBob]

69. I guess I am looking at it from the big picture cnsidering the entire economy was near collapse..

about a 16 months ago. Of course if you lost a job then clearly things are worse. Good luck. Hope things get better for you and others in similar situation.

[cowman]

73. I'm one of the fortunate ones

I became a Firefighter/Paramedic 35 years ago so my job is secure but there are millions who are not as fortunate as me. I do give as much as I can to charities that help feed the homeless

[Lost4words]

51. bulla crapa,...

[Zorro]

56. I'm sensing a shift in mood about the economy

There's been a lot of concern regarding homeowner ARM resets in the immediate future, but because interest rates now are comparatively low, they may very well reset to lower rates and actually reduce monthly mortgage payments.

I do get the feeling that people are becoming more optimistic about the future.

[Lost4words]

58. only with people doing well, is there a sense of improvement!

glad you are doing OK.

[Donnachaidh]

66. yeah, he's having a bridge in Brooklyn painted so he can flip that too

Oh Lordie -- the economic fairy tales are getting deep enough to don hipwaders :rofl: :rofl:

Yeah Timmeh -- it's gettin bettah and bettah, ain't it? :sarcasm:

[HughMoran]

71. It's either the message or the messenger

But the unreccers are not happy about the good news - apparently it doesn't fit into their 'message framing'.

[cowman]

74. What good news?

news from DC? Why don't you go talk to the average american and see what they really think of the economy and DC's lack of knowing whats really going on in the country

[HughMoran]

75. yes, only those who see bad news are valid commentators

I know how a dictatorship works, the fact that unemployment is low in my state and dropping along with having decent business opportunities doesn't matter, so long as you decide to dictate what is and isn't good news

[cowman]

76. I'm not dictating anything

I'm speaking of reality, I'm glad that things are getting better where you live but in most states it's getting worse or not improving, if you don't believe me just go to any major city and stand on the corner and ask average americans if the economy is getting any better and I'll bet that 90% will tell you no and that DC is making it worse. Distrust of DC is at an all time high and most don't believe a fucking word that comes out of DC. Do you know when a politician is lying? When their lips are moving

[HughMoran]

78. The teabaggers are loving it n/t

[Zhade]

81. They probably don't like being lied to. I'm surprised you're okay with it.

Oh wait, I'm not surprised YOU'RE okay with it.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

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[HughMoran]

86. You really need to take a chill pill with the vicious personal attacks

Do you have anything of substance to discuss, or are you just here to attack me?

Please, let's discuss this lie pointed out by the poster above.

1) define the lie
2) point out proof of your lie since you know I will have counter arguments

[cowman]

87. I 100% agree

with you, no personal attacks, I like the debate we are having which, so far, has been pretty cordial

[uppityperson]

92. Yet so many have been deleted. Sad.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

90. So in summary, your arguments are 1) personal attack 2) personal insult 3) more perosnal attacks

I think I'm seeing a trend here :think:

[HughMoran]

85. please, let's discuss the LIE - discussion is what we do here

unless you prefer the personal attack approach?

[hollowdweller]

77. The economy around me is getting better

Seeing quite a few help wanted signs in businesses around where I live.

I thought he did a decent job on MTP this morning.

Normally it seems like he sucks.

Both he and Clinton seemed to more on message than dems usually are.

[HughMoran]

79. sacrilege!!!

j/k :)