Belgium to debate ban on Islamic veils such as burqa

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News

Belgium lawmakers are due to debate legislation that would ban full-face Islamic veils in public.

If, as expected, they approve the draft law, Belgium would become the first European country to ban the wearing of the burqa or niqab in public places.

It comes a day after France announced its own plans to ban the garments.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8636605.stm

[Happyhippychick]

1. Is it wrong of me to be happy about this?

[queenjane]

2. Join me in the "wrong" category. I'm happy, too. n/t

[onenote]

3. what about it makes you happy?

It likely means that a lot of muslim women will abandon any semblance of a public life.

[dipsydoodle]

4. Not really.

they'll adjust.

[pennylane100]

5. what is public about walking around in a tent all the time.

Often at the behest of a male family member

[Happyhippychick]

6. + 100

[riderinthestorm]

7. I don't think it's "a lot" of muslim women who wear the niqab or burqa in Belgium

It's probably at most a few hundred. They'll have to get over it.

This is a misogynistic garment of the worst sort. It's interesting that Europe (and most western cultures/countries) have dress codes for women in place that we've adhered to for centuries without any kind of outcry about bigotry. For example, we've outlawed strong matriarchal traditions of toplessness in our countries that are cultural and religiously appropriate in other places (like Australian Aborigines for example).

Everyone's been okay with that, but now you have a clearly misogynistic garment and suddenly cultural relativists are suddenly up in arms about "imposing a dress code". Women (and men) all over Europe have adhered to governmentally enforced dress codes in their public sphere for centuries.

Bottom line is that in most western cultures, going topless isn't considered appropriate. Just like covering the face isn't considered appropriate. We can and do have dress codes the government enforces. Why does this garment suddenly get a pass?

[onenote]

8. so should the law generally prohibit having one's face covered in public

or only women or only muslim women?

If a muslim woman wearing a full face covering leaves her home, gets in a car, and travels to a private home or mosque, is that considered being out in "public"? Would it be okay if she wore a ski mask until she got to her destination?

What about a woman (or man) wearing a full face mask at an event, such as a hallowwen or mardi gras parade, that is open to the public? Okay, not okay? Okay for everyone but a muslim woman?

I assume you're okay with banning this:



What about this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mnadi/17843828/

And if both of those should be banned in public, what about this:

or this
&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fcaptainbicep%2F3202632198%2F&size=137k&name=3202632198+5e849...&p=scarf+cover+cold&oid=27ad03e7e5508bac&fr2=&fusr=Mrs.+Estes&no=5&tt=223&sigr=11leelo8i&sigi=11mfumqjb&sigb=12l25c09g

or these guys

[Happyhippychick]

11. I am opposed to any "religious" reason that is used to oppress women, including the ones in my own.

[riderinthestorm]

12. Did you know that Egypt is moving to ban the niqab and burqa because of their radical political

connotations?

Context matters.

I think most reasonable people can understand the difference between a man at a football game with a scarf over his mouth and nose, and a woman in a burqa.

I assume you are leading the charge in your community to overturn the bigoted laws against toplessness in your community? Aboriginal women can leave their apartments naked, walk out to their cars, and drive down the road to a private home/place of worship in your community now? Have you been stepping up to defend toplessness everywhere or is it just the burqa that needs this special exception to any kind of discussion about what's okay in our public square? This garment isn't even religiously required. It's a cultural affectation. If it were some kind of religiously required garment, there may be some kind of argument but it's not. It's entirely cultural (and now, very highly political).

[onenote]

13. i happen to believe in freedom of religion. sue me.

The fact that the context is the expression of one's religious beliefs makes it more immune from government dictate rather than less. It rather turns the constitutional concept of freedom of religion on its head to say that a man at a football game is entitled to protection but a person expressing their religious convictions is not.

Amish women are required to dress in a very restrictive manner. Seems rather "radical" to me to not let women express themselves through their dress. But I wouldn't support legislation to make them stop dressing the way they do and dress more like the rest of us.

When I'm at the beach, I see a lot of t-shirts with messages that strike me as extremely offensive to and demeaning of women. But I don't think the government should be banning those either.

And if toplessness was a religious expression, yes I would be defending it. Just as I would defend the use of peyote by certain tribes. And the wearing of yarmulkes by Jewish men in public.

I'm curious how you draw the line as to what is acceptable religious expression. I'm curious as to when a face covering by a muslim woman should be prohibited. When it covers all of the face but the eyes? When it covers the face below the eyes (but exposes the forehead? When it covers the top of the face (with an opening for the eyes) but not the mouth?

Of is anything a muslim woman wears on her face prohibited, but a non-muslim woman is free to cover the same area with impunity?

[riderinthestorm]

14. The burqa and niqab are not religious. nt

[Jazzgirl]

10. I disagree as well.

I think a lot won't even be allowed to come out of the house. They'll wind up being recluses.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Belgian government collapses after party quits coalition

The collapse of the Belgian government has thrown into doubt plans to pass a law that would ban Islamic veils in public.

The government, led by the prime minister, Yves Leterme, fell after the centre-right Flemish liberal party Open VLD pulled out of his five-month-old coalition. Leterme tendered his government's resignation to King Albert after an emergency cabinet meeting, but the monarch did not immediately decide whether to accept it.

"I doubt that they will debate this law as they have other things on their minds," said a Belgian official in London.

MPs had been expected to pass a law today that would have made Belgium the first European country to ban the wearing of the burqa, which covers the face and body, or the niqab, which covers the face.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/22/belgian-government-collapses-party-quits