Election: Gordon Brown 'bigoted woman' jibe caught on tape

[T_i_B]

Source: BBC

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has been caught on microphone describing a voter he had just spoken to in Rochdale as a "bigoted woman".

The 65-year-old woman had challenged Mr Brown on a number of issues including immigration, crime and the economy during the exchange.

The comments were made as he got into his car after speaking to Gillian Duffy, not realising that he had a Sky News microphone pinned to his shirt. He told an aide: "That was a disaster - they should never have put me with that woman. Whose idea was that? It's just ridiculous..." Asked what she had said, he replied: "Everything, she was just a bigoted woman."

Mrs Duffy, a widow, said: "I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet but if that's what he said I'm very upset. I'm very annoyed."


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649012.stm

---

This gaffe is going to be all over the UK press for the next week.

[YOY]

1. and if he was just calling a spade a spade?

n/t

[T_i_B]

2. Sounds like he may have been

...but that's not how it will be portrayed by the British tabloid press.

One the other hand it may well mean that they start blathering on about something other then how Nick Clegg is apparently the AntiChrist or worse still, the obssession with leaders wives you get in the tabloid rags.

[Demit]

5. rilly.

No doubt the press will conveniently avoid what the woman actually said. They'll prefer to hype how awful it was that G Brown called her bigoted. As if that couldn't have been an accurate portrayal.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. This is the most detailed description I can find so far:

During their earlier conversation, she had told the Prime Minister that she was concerned that vulnerable people were missing out on support while those who did not deserve them where able to claim benefits.

She went on: "All these Eastern Europeans, where are they coming from?"

Mr Brown said that a million Europeans had come to the United Kingdom, but that a similar number of Britons were now living on the continent.

Mrs Duffy told him that she felt that the issue of immigration was not being discussed properly for reasons of political correctness. "You can't say anything about immigrants," she said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7645072/Gordon-Brown-calls-campaigner-bigoted-woman.html

[T_i_B]

12. As I've said in the UK forum

"All these Eastern Europeans, where are they coming from?" is a bit of a stupid statement to make, regardless of any bigotry.

[Captain Hilts]

8. Sounds like she was, indeed, a "bigoted woman." nt

[dipsydoodle]

13. We don't use that expression these days

Spades was common parlance for blacks.

[dmallind]

16. That;'s akin to complaining about the word "niggardly"

The origin of the phrase predates that appellation to blacks by centuries. It has nothing at all to do with race as used.

[YOY]

18. No. The idiom has nothing to do with race.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade

Although I do apologize to gardeners everywhere who are offended.

[dipsydoodle]

30. The fact that you and I may both know the difference

don't change the fact that imported political correctness has caused the expression to almost disappear from use. Goes back 30 years or so when we were also encourgaed to avoid the use of such the terms as manhole cover because they were sexist - would you believe.

Personally I don't give a fuck - such issues revolve around giving words meaning.

[Nye Bevan]

35. Almost disappeared from use? Really?

Within the site Democratic Underground alone there are almost 2000 Google hits...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=site%3Awww.democraticunderground.com+%22spade+a+spade%22&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS228HK230&ie=UTF-8

I suggest that your outrage over this phrase is misplaced.

[dipsydoodle]

36. Please see

last sentence reply 30.

Misplaced is the wrong word given that I really don't give a shit about whether or not its used.

Might also be worth you allowing for the fact that I'm English you are probably not so.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. I'd say it's still in common use in England too

The use of 'spade' as an insult was not as common in England as in the US, I think. "Call a spade a bloody shovel" is quite common, for that matter.

[dipsydoodle]

46. Geographical maybe

and maybe age related too given that youngsters seem to be more wary about using it assuming they knew it in the first place. :shrug:

I thought spade/shovel was only used against those who knew no difference between two objects/subjects ? Our slang usage of spade goes back to the black suit in playing cards as far as I'm aware.

[YOY]

41. I assure you. I rarely care about political correctness when it's not used properly.

That saying has not disappeared anymore than "simply on tenterhooks" has. It still works, is non-offensive, and is still applicable.

It's like telling me I cannot call a mysterious CIA Field Agent or a ghostly member of the un-dead a "spook"...

Perhaps the same people who get upset about this kind of thing need to call the Spanish speaking world and tell them their word for the color "Black" is offensive.

I will continue to call spades "spades"...rest assuredly, I am either talking about a playing card suite or a pointed digging implement. That's what they're called. To think otherwise shows one's over-preoccupation with perceived racism.

[Nye Bevan]

24. Oh please. And I suppose you avoid the word "picnic"

because you think it originates from "pick a nigger".

You really should check on the internet before excising phrases from your vocabulary without any good reason. It only takes a couple of minutes.

[JCMach1]

3. And with NO time to recover from any damage....

[T_i_B]

4. Well he went straight to a radio interview which I've just been listening to

He spent most of the time doing his usual routine of speaking in cliches and dodging questions. He made an attempt at an apology but the damage will have been done.

[JCMach1]

7. When is the Scotland debate? Tonight? He could actually make a *good* joke there

compared to the lame ones in the previous debates...

[Captain Hilts]

10. Aberdeen Press&Journal: Look for Substance, not Celebrity

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1706977?UserKey=

THERE is just a week to go before we all have the opportunity to squeeze into a polling booth, lick our pencil, contemplate our choice and put our cross in the box to elect a new president, oops, sorry, prime minister.

It’s a silly mistake to make. The only people voting, or not, for one of the three PM pretenders are those in the constituencies of Witney, Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, and Sheffield Hallam. We don’t vote for our prime minister, nor should we, I reckon. A directly-elected UK president would be a disaster.

Some, often our cousins in that poor wee disgruntled country south of the border, mouth off that they didn’t vote for Gordon Brown as PM. Correct, and unless they move to Kirkcaldy or Cowdenbeath, which is as likely as me riding across Iran naked on a unicycle while singing the Star Spangled Banner, they never will.

All political leaders play a key role in their party’s fortunes, of course, but the 2010 election campaign has seen a slide into a US-style mire where personality overpowers policy. Personality is like garlic. How much you can stomach is down to taste, but it’s dodgy when it dominates the fare it’s supposed to enhance. It can also be used to mask something that isn’t as fresh or wholesome as it pretends to be.
...
I do agree it’s important for a prime minister to have personality, some humour, some humility and some endearing qualities. Most do, but it’s much more important that they are a skilled chief executive who can run Cabinet and country well.

If charm and looks were everything, Susan Boyle would never win a popular vote. She had to prove what she could do before she rose to stardom. Similarly, it’s the abilities of the parliamentary hopefuls in my constituency to do their job well that will win my vote, not which wannabe PM has the smartest tie, the prettiest wife or the best one-liner.

It is those 22 MPs sitting round the Cabinet table beside the PM who will run the country. From them I want substance, not celebrity.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. It's not a Scottish debate

There's the national one on Thursday night, for which the SNP has lost its challenge to be included; Brown will be in that.

There have been 2 Scottish debates, with 1 more to go, I think, but between the leaders of the Scottish sections of the national parties and a representative of the SNP (Salmond did 1, but seems to be boycotting the BBC out of pique).

[T_i_B]

21. Salmond's behaviour does remind me of Kevin McCabe

Trying to sue people whenever he doesn't get his way. Just like the chairman of Sheffield United.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_McCabe_(businessman)

[JCMach1]

27. Thanks for the details... I usually find myself caught somewhere between SKY and BBC

for my British news... Have been trying to keep up, but busy times at work...

Did watch the last two debates though...

:hi:

[Odin2005]

9. Calling a bigot a bigot is a scandal?

[Captain Hilts]

11. I give GoBro some credit for that. nt

[pampango]

15. When I first read that Brown called her "bigoted",

I figured she had complained about dark-skinned immigrants. As I read further, though, I found that she was actually complaining about Eastern European immigrants which is bigotry of a different sort.

The only parties that would do anything about Eastern European immigrants (by having the UK withdraw from the European Union so that it could reinstate immigration controls on other Europeans) are the right wing British National Party and the United Kingdom Independence Party.

The woman said that she would no longer vote for Labour. She didn't say who she was now going to vote for, but there are only two parties that will do anything about Eastern European immigrants.

[T_i_B]

17. She wanted to know where they're coming from...

Maybe she was just asking for directions? I personally think that Gordon Brown should have given her a map of Europe to answer her question.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. It was a unscripted one-liner from a member of the public

You can't expect them all to be phrased logically and succinctly. You might also say it was a rhetorical question.

I think this will hurt Brown quite a lot, because the language she used was relatively mild, and many people will say "well, I wonder about the Eastern Europeans too ...". It's not that far off from Brown's own "British jobs for British people" he used a year or two ago.

[pampango]

22. Sounds like it puts immigration up front as an election issue, if it wasn't already.

It hurts Brown and Labour, but I wonder it will help the other big parties or the far-right anti-immigration parties more.

[dipsydoodle]

14. Watch what actually happened and in what order on TV News.

She was originally trying to discuss the economy with the tosser.

[Nye Bevan]

23. The definition of a "gaffe".

When a politician accidentally tells the truth.

[iandhr]

25. what if it was true

[pampango]

28. It is true, so it will be interesting to see how the electorate reacts. Do they rally to Brown

(not sure that I want them to) because they realize that the woman's comments are out of the mainstream of an EU member country? Or do they rally to the woman because they share her concern for the presence of so many Eastern Europeans and blame their presence on Brown?

[T_i_B]

31. Well judging by the reaction on Twitter....

...the Tories are all up in arms and giving it the whole FEEL TEH OUTRAGE over this.

Lefties on the other hand are pointing out that she may well be a bigot. At the moment I reckon it's the Tories who are winning out though.

[SemperEadem]

26. well, if she was grown enough to talk like a bigot

then she should be grown enough to take being called one.

who gives a damn if she's upset and annoyed at the truth being told about what she said? If it's her truth, why does she want distance from it? She clung to it while the attention was on her.

[Arkana]

29. Ya know, I watched the UK PM debate the other day on C-SPAN

and it was one of the best things I've seen on TV in a long time.

Whether you like them or not, every single one of the men on that stage was smart, engaged, eloquent, and not afraid to call it how they saw it. I saw Cameron call Brown a liar on stage--when's the last time that happened in Presidential debates?

They're allowed to go at each other on stage. No one keeps track of the time each person has to speak--that's not how it works. I wish our politics were more like that.

[No Elephants]

51. Presidential debates were far better when the League of Women Voters controlled them.

Then, the Republicans and Democrats joined hands to control the debates through the Commission on Presidential Debates. They made make up a bunch of rules networks had to follow if they wanted the privilege of airing a debate, which includes squeezing out third party candidates and such things as not showing the candidates side by side, except for when they shake hands.

There have been a number of books on the history of the debates. The changes have not been voter-oriented.

[daleo]

32. Maybe she was bigoted

This could actually help Brown, making it clear he doesn't care for bigotry. To a lot of people, that would be a plus.

[brooklynite]

33. "not realising that he had a Sky News microphone pinned to his shirt...."

...presumably not hidden in a boutonniere...pretty stupid politics.

[brooklynite]

34. Before people jump to a lot of conclusions...

...this had nothing to do with Race. She was complaining about immigrants from Eastern Europe...

[dipsydoodle]

38. I know that and you know that

but all that's important is that the more its discussed on boards like this the greater the contribution to sinking that turd Brown and his bunch of liars so I hope everyone will keep up the good work.

BTW - he's now been back to see her personally and decided he'd misinterpreted something she'd said anyway. :rofl:

[Turborama]

37. Sky News: "Full Clash Before Brown's Blunder" & his "bigot" comment in the car afterwards (Videos)

Here's what she said in full, make your own mind up whether she was a "bigot" or not: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Gordon-Brown-Bigoted-Gaffe-Full-Conversation-Before-PMs-Microphone-Blunder/Video/201004415621793

There are more videos at that link including what he said in the car and on BBC Radio afterwards.

The Times have the video of what he said in the car and her reaction: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7110398.ece

[dipsydoodle]

39. Events have moved on from there

following his personal visit back to her house. He's now decided he misinterpreted what she said.

[Turborama]

40. I saw him talking about it with his rictus grin on Sky News about an hour ago

The way he 'smiled' all the way through was stomach churning.

:hi:

[dipsydoodle]

44. Have you also seen

the subsequent visit to her house ? Cameras etc were not allowed in.

:hi:

[Turborama]

52. Yep, that's the one. Have you seen this interview with Andrew Marr where he blatantly lies about it

He blatantly lies after the audio clip is played that he wasn't given a chance to answer her question because there was too much press hanging around (check out his reaction at 00:27, too): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3F_ly9xSqQ

However, he had plenty of time to answer her question but instead changed the subject, as can be seen here in the full encounter (the moment in question starts at 2:35): http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Gordon-Brown-Bigoted-Gaffe-Full-Conversation-Before-PMs-Microphone-Blunder/Video/201004415621793

[Turborama]

43. ITN have just uploaded his comments outside her house to their YouTube channel

Behold the rictus grin a la Gordon Brown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLv5LQcdZFY

[dipsydoodle]

47. One of my dance friends is now calling her

Duffy The Premier Slayer. :rofl:

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. Misheard 'flocking' for 'fucking', perhaps?

If that isn't what actually happened, that may be what the damage control wants to imply. So, when she said

"all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?"

he heard

"all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they fucking from?"

It might be an excuse for looking on it as a more bigoted remark. :shrug: However, 'flocking' isn't a good word to use either - it's close to 'swarming' ...

[dipsydoodle]

48. If a word was misheard its a good job they weren't discussing

Kent.

[T_i_B]

53. Maybe they misheard Brown

Perhaps he wasn't complaining about "that bigoted woman" but "that big-titted woman"?

[No Elephants]

50. Too bad. He should have defended his statement. She DID sound like a xenophobic bigot.

Trying to backpedal will only make him seem lame.

[JCMach1]

49. Just saw his 'explanation' on video- Stick a Fork in Him

He's done...

[Arrowhead2k1]

54. Come on Labour peeps, jump the sinking ship already, vote LD! nt

[gemini_liberal]

55. Quite sad that this could be the moment that killed Brown

Him getting caught calling out a bigot for being a bigot...

One cannot help feeling that it wouldn't have been as bad for him, if instead of calling an old xenophobe a bigot, he called an immigrant a terrorist...

While I appreciate the LD fans trying to use the outrage here to get a few more votes, an incident like this will see Labour bleed votes to the Tories and the BNP...

If Labour is to be smashed, I do sincerely hope it is at the Lib Dems' gain, not the Tories.

Interestingly, the Lib Dems only need to come second (in the seat count) in a hung parliament and their leader will be favourite to be PM (in a scenario like that, Labour or the Tories will become the 3rd party who has the balance of power and political logic is will not allow the other to be able to form government!)