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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 09:16 PM
Original message
Mosque going up in NYC building damaged on 9/11
Source: AP

NEW YORK – In a building damaged by debris from the Sept. 11 airliners that brought down the World Trade Center and soon to become a 13-story mosque, some see the bridging of a cultural divide and an opportunity to serve a burgeoning, peaceful religious population. Others see a painful reminder of the religious extremism that killed their loved ones.

Two Muslim organizations have partnered to open the mosque and cultural center in lower Manhattan, saying the $100 million project will create a venue for mainstream Islam and a counterbalance to radicalism. It earned a key endorsement this week from influential community leaders.

But some 9/11 victims' families said they were angered that it would be built so close to where their relatives died.

"I don't like it," said Evelyn Pettigano, who lost a sister in the attacks, during a phone interview on Thursday. "I'm not prejudiced. ... It's too close to the area where our family members were murdered."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100506/ap_on_re_us/us_ground_zero_mosque
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jeez Louise!
*That's* going to have the 'baggers & fundies frothing!

:patriot:
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brendan120678 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Yeah, I'm sure the Freepers are gonna be...
up in arms over this one. Maybe even literally up in arms - who knows.

I'm not going to defile my browser history by going over there to check it out, however.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. "I'm not prejudiced" - - - but. . . .
Edited on Thu May-06-10 09:39 PM by Bluebear
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yeah, I noticed that. The editor thought it clever that he replaced the 'but' with an ellipsis.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hoo boy! Are we going to hear about THIS! nt
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. "I'm not prejudiced." Yes you are. (nt)
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hmmmm
In spirit, this could be seen as the same kind of thing as the American white boys who wore their American flag clothing on Cinco de Mayo. Plenty of people here said it was provocative and a fuck you to the Mexican-Americans and the kids deserved to be sent home. Building a mosque so close to Ground Zero could also be considered very provocative.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. There's a huge difference between the two examples...
The one you bring up and say is the same kind of thing was intended to be a big fuck-you to Mexican-Americans (otherwise why would you bring up that they were 'white boys' who wore the US flag clothing?), while this one is most definately not intended as a big fuck-you. I'm sure Islamophobes will screech themselves hoarse insisting that it's provocative, but let 'em screech. It's not like anyone who isn't a like-minded spirit when it comes to their views is going to agree with them, right?
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. There is no consistency in your argument. If people have the right NOT to be offended
then it is the party which feels offended that calls the shots. If you think Mexican students were justified feeling offended by a t-shirt with a US flag printed on it, then you should support Americans who feel offended by the presence of a mosque near Ground Zero. If being offensive is a crime then no one should do anything that might offend others.


No Mohammed cartoons = No US t-shirts around Mexican students = No mosque near Ground Zero
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. What I said was consistant and made absolute sense...
What I said was that the INTENT on those two things the other poster was saying was the same were very different. That's not at all what yr acting as though I said...
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. Holy False Equivalency, Batman!
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. Too close to where their family members were murdered?
Is she against Christian churches near the crime scene where a Christian murderer kills someone?
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Always first ask yourself WHY an article was written.
And in this case, it is quite clear that the purpose it was written was to appeal to small-minded bigotry and xenophobia.

Don't "buy" it.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. It's AP, which has a Ron Fournier problem.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is not just provocation, it's retailiation. Dollars to donuts I'm right.
Edited on Fri May-07-10 10:11 PM by snagglepuss
Retailiation for what? Retaliation IMHO for Isrealis (with funding from the Los Angeles based Simon Wiesenthal Center) constructing, get this, a Museum of Tolerance on the site of an ANCIENT Muslim cemetery in Jerusleum. Can we all say provocative? What could possibibly be more provocative than destroying an ancient cemetary?

Palestinians have been fighting it since 2004 but in Feb 2010 the Israeli Supreme Court gave construction the go-ahead. So is it simply coincidence that Muslims are now planning a cultural centre near Ground Zero? Its a dumb idea but who can blame them? It is outrageous for Israelis to be so provocative and insensitive.


snip

"This is not mere callous indifference to the dead. A Muslim cemetery dating back to the 11th Century is a reminder that Israeli’s are the newcomers to this land they claim is eternally theirs. Rabbi Marvin Hier’s Los Angeles-based Museum of Tolerance, part of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, is building a $150 million branch in Jerusalem. The Museum, whose mission is confronting “global anti-Semitism, extremism, hate and promoting unity and respect among Jews and people of all faiths,” is being built atop part of the Mamilla Muslim cemetery, some of whose burials date to the 11th century. The graves, which may contain the remains of soldiers who fought with Saladin against the Crusaders, are being uprooted to make way for Rabbi Hier’s new museum.

More than a few commentators, including a number of Israelis and some of Israel’s friends in this country, have argued strongly that a Museum of Tolerance built literally upon the bones of Palestine’s indigenous Arab population is hypocritical, intolerant, and wholly absurd ."

http://www.americanpendulum.com/2010/04/jewish-museum-of-tolerance-desecrates-palestinian-graves/



snip

"This tolerance museum to us is a museum of intolerance," said Dyala Husseini, who has ancestors from her family and her husband's family buried in the cemetery. "It is very inhumane, it is very humiliating and it ignores our existence as Palestinian families here in Jerusalem. Our families are here in Jerusalem and have been here for centuries," she said.

Jamal Nusseibeh said one of his ancestors, the former governor of Jerusalem Burhan al-Din al-Khazraji ibn Nusseibeh, was buried in the cemetery in 1432. "It is part of the rich fabric of Jerusalem which always has been a symbol of tolerance," he said. "The fact that anybody could wish to wipe out such a structural part of this fabric in order somehow to promote tolerance is very hard to understand."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/10/jewish-museum-tolerance-muslim-cemetery



snip

"It is disingenuous and misleading for the Weisenthal representatives to claim this was declared a "deconsecrated" cemetery by an Islamic trust in 1964, and that there were no protests when a car park was built over part of it in 1960. Jonathan Cook pointed out in a recent article: "The Islamic trusts have no legitimacy among Palestinian Muslims in Israel, nearly one-fifth of the country's total population, let alone among Palestinians in the occupied territories. The Islamic officials on the trusts are widely seen as corrupt, appointed by the state because of their willingness to do the government's bidding rather than because of their public standing or Islamic credentials."

In any case the avenues for protests by Palestinians are extremely limited, as they impotently view the expropriation of their land and property and the breaches of the human rights using the might and force of the Israeli state and army. In the 1960s much of Israel's Arab population "was under martial law, and in little position to voice opposition". It is well known that the secrecy of decision-making in the planning process, as for the Museum of Tolerance, precludes genuine consultation and objections."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/nov/26/israelandthepalestinians-humanrights



snip

Israel has an obligation to respect and protect the holy sites of its minority religious and ethnic populations, including Mamilla cemetery, under international law, United Nations resolutions and under its own domestic law. Despite Israel’s legal obligations, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in favor of construction of the museum and the government has refused to halt the disinterment of bodies and the destruction of the ancient cemetery. For this reason, the petitioners have decided to bring this issue to the international community with the aid of human rights organizations such as CCR


http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/03/23/american-civil-rights-org-fights-against-israeli-desecration-of-ancient-cemetery/



When I first read the OP I thought I had deja vu but once I remembered the story about the so-called Museum of Tolerance I realized this wasn't deja vu at all. Destroying an ancient cemetary to construct of a "museum of tolerance" is beyond belief, it is contempible. OTOH given that the 911 terrorists committed their act in the name of Isalm, I do think it is insensitive and provocative to build a Muslim cultural centre near Ground Zero (it's a great idea to have a Muslim cultural centre but better someplace else in New York).







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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Huh? It's got zero to do with Israel...
When it comes to intent, I don't think I'd be inclined to waste any time listening to what anti-Muslim bigots claim the intent is, nor would I be bothered by them whining about something being insensitive or provocative.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. Poor taste
Insensitivity.

Lack of tact.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. That'd all apply if someone constructed a giant porta-potty on the site...
Edited on Fri May-07-10 10:57 PM by Violet_Crumble
Who gave you and those like you ownership of that site and what can and can't be built on it?

Did you read the article? I'm curious how you can say that if you'd read it..
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. Tell that to the Muslims who died in the WTC on 911--and, no, I don't mean the attackers.
Edited on Sun May-09-10 04:59 AM by No Elephants
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. YAY! More religion!
Just what we fucking need. :puke:
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Exactly. A place for all faiths (or none) would suit the site better.
A quiet haven free from any religious pressure would truly be seen as a true gesture of peace and goodwill by Muslims who are hoping to bridge divides.

Instead it's going to be another religious crazy house, magnet for shit. DU's reaction is indicative. No matter how well intentioned, Muslims desire to construct such a singular structure at the site of such mass destruction and with such powerful connections for so many (faiths, genders, creeds, codes, ideals etc.) will backfire imho.

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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. Those who find it a painful reminder need to remember
that innocent Muslims were killed that day too. Grief and outrage were expressed by the greater Muslim community in this country.
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unabelladonna Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-10 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. why not spit in the faces of the survivors of 9/11....
vile beyond words.
however, i don't believe it will ever see the light of day.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. 9/11 was not an expression of Islam

Why do you think the Muslim victims of 9/11 would be offended by this?

The 9/11 attacks were as much an expression of Islam as the Klan is an expression of Christianity.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. A place of worship near Ground Zero spits in the faces of survivors of 911?
Edited on Sun May-09-10 04:31 AM by No Elephants


BTW, are you sure no 911 survivors are themselves Muslim?

Would building a church near the Oklahoma federal buiding be spitting in the face of the survivors of that attack, too?
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. Why not explain to us how this is "spitting in the faces of survivors of 9/11"? (nt)
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
22. "Our " family members? If that ain't an "us" vs. "them" statement, what is?
Edited on Sun May-09-10 04:27 AM by No Elephants
Does she mean Italian Americans, perhaps? No. Plenty of folks besdies Italian Americans died in the WTC that day.

Roman Catholics, perhaps? No, plenty of folks besides Roman Catholics died in the WTC that day.

Whatever could she mean, given that she is "not prejudiced, but....?"
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bik0 Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. "The opening date shall live in infamy: Sept. 11, 2011"
"The 10th anniversary of the day a hole was punched in the city's heart."

If this is true then this IS a deliberate slap in the face.

http://www.nypost.com/f/print/news/national/mosque_madness_at_ground_zero_OQ34EB0MWS0lXuAnQau5uL

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