Next step to stop oil: Throw garbage at it

[Turborama]

Source: CNN

If using a massive dome to cover the source of the oil gushing into the Gulf of Mexico doesn't work, crews are preparing for another option: clogging it.

Engineers are examining whether they can close a failed blowout preventer by stuffing it with trash, said Adm. Thad Allen, the commandant of the Coast Guard. The 48-foot-tall, 450-ton device sits atop the well at the heart of the Gulf oil spill and is designed to stop leaks, but it has not been working properly since the oil rig Deepwater Horizon exploded April 20 and later sank.

"The next tactic is going to be something they call a junk shot," Allen told CBS's "Face the Nation" on Sunday. "They'll take a bunch of debris -- shredded up tires, golf balls and things like that -- and under very high pressure, shoot it into the preventer itself and see if they can clog it up and stop the leak."

Oil company BP, the well's owner, had attempted to lower a four-story containment vessel over the well to cap the larger of the well's two leak points. But that plan was thwarted Saturday after ice-like hydrate crystals, formed when gas combined with water, blocked the top of the dome and made it buoyant.

Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/05/09/gulf.oil/

---

So, looks like they're considering trash or mud and concrete...

BP plans to park oil box; unload new equipment

By HARRY R. WEBER and SARAH LARIMER (AP) – 1 hour ago

ON THE GULF OF MEXICO — Crews planned Sunday to park the giant oil containment box on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, and offload equipment that could be used in a new attempt to stem the flow of gushing into the sea.

The equipment to be offloaded from another vessel would use a tube to shoot mud and concrete directly into the well's blowout preventer, a process that could take two to three weeks. But BP PLC spokesman Mark Proegler told AP that no decisions have been made on what step the company will take next.

The company was considering several options, including the technique known as a "top kill," Proegler said.

Crews planned to secure the box about 1,600 feet from the massive leak site, much farther away from where it was placed Saturday after icelike crystals clogged the top when it was over the leak, according to a daily activity sheet reviewed by The Associated Press.

More: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gIXWYBTpLtSayJtg41LKXpxSxVPAD9FJF2LG1

[Arctic Dave]

1. The "leaky transmission" move. n/t

[XemaSab]

8. Also the "stopping gully erosion on the old homestead" move

"Let's put the Model A and some old mattresses in there and see if that slows 'er down!" :o

[dotymed]

36. lol..if the pipe is steel

they could have an underwater welder, weld a real shut-off valve onto it. They said the valve (which is required in all other countries), costs a half a million. Underwater welders are good. We used them on some bridge projects I worked on. If it is too deep , they said the submersible was able to use a screwdriver. Then it could maneuver a torch, it seems. Fuck the money, it is killing our world.

[defendandprotect]

57. Original plan was to drill down diagonally to cap it???

[Ruby the Liberal]

2. Which in turn will cause whats left of the pipe to blow apart

Man alive. They are really getting desperate. :(

[pinto]

5. Yeah, would seem the big risk, as with any "plug-it-up" option.

:shrug:

[Ruby the Liberal]

6. Each time they come up with something new, it seems to be a more

frightening prospect than the last idea.

[janx]

12. That's because, as they repeat ad nauseam:

"We're working at 5,000 feet of depth, which has never been done before."

[pinto]

16. That's a big part of the safety situation. Seems that many of the systems were designed

for shallower, continental shelf drilling. Less pressure, warmer water temps.

[janx]

18. Yes indeed! And that should have been a signal to them

to take many precautions and tests, no?

Check out how many times the quote has been used in connection with the disaster:

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=%225000+feet%22+%22never+been+done+before%22+oil&btnG=Google+Search

[suffragette]

21. But wasn't Montara similar in depth?

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/monster-timor-sea-oil-slick-continues-to-grow/story-e6frg14u-1225793142767
Several attempts to plug the leak by Thai resource company PTTEP Australasia -- operators of the well -- have been unsuccessful. PTTEP plans to make a fifth attempt at intercepting the crippled pipe, 2.6km under the seabed, today.

[janx]

25. Someone should ask them!

;-)

[DeSwiss]

50. Nope....

the Montara drilling platform was operating in water that was 250 feet deep, while the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig leased by BP was on a seabed 5,000 feet deep.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/us/03montara.html

[suffragette]

53. Thanks

So many similarities between the two, I thought that was as well. Good to get the particulars sorted.

[DeSwiss]

60. You're welcome ;-) n/t

[semillama]

77. A simple reply to that:

"Apparently this situation shows you should never work at 5,000 feet of depth again."

[awoke_in_2003]

20. I am waiting...

for the nuclear warhead option- wouldn't put it past these clowns.

[Holy Moly]

73. Have they tried prayer yet?

With all our greatest leaders
never failing to publically
declare their unshakable faith
in the power of prayer, including
the big O who dwells in Billy Graham's
White House,
why didn't they all bow down on their
bended knees in concerted fervent prayer
on the recent National Day of Bullshitting,
and pray for their merciful God to stop the
oil gusher for His beloved Amurkakers
like He parted the Red Sea for His
Chosen Israeliters?
Why not?
Why because they all knows that if they
tried pulling that circus act,
the big fairytale who art in Heaven,
would ignore them like he always does,
thus proving in no uncertain terms,
that nuttin fails like prayer,
and thus undermining their own religious powers over the mighty teabaggers.

[XemaSab]

61. "Plug it up! Plug it up! Plug it up!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJe0iVo8y3A

[IndianaGreen]

49. and increase the rate of the gusher

even an oil engineer was quoted by WaPo yesterday that the junk shot is very risky, and it has never been tried at such depths.

[pinto]

3. If that's what it takes & has some reasonable chance at success, go for it.

:hi:

[dixiegrrrrl]

4. Getting rid of trash and maybe a moon shot all in one.

" No one could have foreseen the gulf balls would be blown that high"

Why do I feel whatever they do, FUBAR will result.

[kiranon]

7. Do not think BP has any idea of what to do. Throwing garbage at it

sounds beyond desperate to me. n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

9. They should stick Rush Sarah and Glenn in the pipe.

But then there are enough toxins in the water already. Send Joe the plumber down there with a pony tank?

[oasis]

72. Add Haley Barbour to the mix. That would do the trick.

;-)

[janx]

10. Not this again:

"We're working at 5,000 feet of depth, which has never been done before," he said.

The PR spin is trying to convert this screw up of massive proportions into a heroic effort on the part of the oil company. While I wish them all the luck in the world, the fact that this talking point appears over and over really doesn't help matters.

[UpInArms]

11. what luminary genius thought of that?

:scared:

[thelordofhell]

14. This Guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1SiSUrvUnk

[UpInArms]

17. maybe I should add what's on my floor

[grasswire]

13. what about hay?

wouldn't hay work?

[Zenlitened]

15. Well, it does make kind of a nice metaphor for the times we live in. - n/t

[w4rma]

19. Jeeze. They need to get that damn containment dome to work right.

This crap isn't going to work.

[awoke_in_2003]

22. I foresee this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM

[Jefferson23]

23. I heard about using hair, but not the garbage listed in the OP.

Hair of the Dog vital to Oil Spill Clean-up

http://www.examiner.com/x-39995-Toronto-Shih-Tzu-Examiner~y2010m5d9-Hair-of-the-Dog-vital-to-Oil-Spill-Cleanup

[Maine-ah]

24. one of our pet groomers in the area had donated

clippings to help.

http://knox.villagesoup.com/place/story/local-groomer-ships-clippings-to-help-with-gulf-oil-spill/323875


ROCKPORT — An emergency call was placed recently to hair salons and groomers and Liz Czak of Yankee Clipper in Rockport responded.

Czak has been involved with an organization based in San Francisco called Excess Access. The company collects hair clippings to make booms and mats that aid in the effort to clean up oil spills.

With the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico moving closer to land, the company sent out an e-mail asking people to ship what clippings they had accumulated to an address in Florida by May 7. This was the first request and if additional hair is needed Excess Access will ask for more clippings. There will be a group of volunteers in Florida who will assemble the booms and mats as soon as the clippings arrive.

[Robbien]

26. BP Plan B? -- Golf Balls, Shredded Tires

Bp’s plan B? A “Junk Shot.” U.S. Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen explained on CBS’s Face the Nation,

“They are actually going to take a bunch of debris — some shredded up tires, golf balls and things like that — and under very high pressure shoot it into the preventer itself and see if they can clog it up to stop the leak.”

Like the containment dome this technique has been effective before, but never tried at these depths. It ’s becoming clear that BP engineers never gave a thought to how to stop a deepwater oil leak.


?w=300

Sabrina Bradford took this photo yesterday in Waveland, MS. These fish are the foundation of the diet of many large gulf marine animals. Sabrina told Oiled Wildlife Rescue Volunteers’ Amanda Richardson Bacon, “The entire beach is lined with them. A friend of mine said they are seeing the same thing in ocean springs.” – Ocean Springs is also in Mississippi.

http://blogs.alternet.org/thereformedflack/2010/05/09/bp-plan-b-golf-balls-shredded-tires/

[spinbaby]

27. And, hey, if that doesn't work, let's nuke it

We've already got oil and trash, what harm can a little radiation do?


:sarcasm:

[madmax]

28. I suggested this yesterday in a post

stuff the hole with Limbaugh and Cheney. Lard, trash - same shit.

[Autumn Colors]

29. Lots & lots of kitty litter .... (nt)

[cindyperry2009]

30. This is the best idea

they have? Well hows about billy mays' mighty mend it. These people are utter fucking morons.

[madmax]

31. And you're being generous. nt

[diamidue]

33. The locals are morons, too.

Why were oil interests allowed to set up rigs when they obviously had no plan for what to do in an emergency? They are just now trying to figure out what to do? The whole Coastal community should have made sure these guys knew how to deal with such emergencies before they allowed drilling. Did they pay no attention to, or were they lied to about security measures? A lot of negligence all around.

[Haole Girl]

32. I said it before and I'll say it again.

Fucking idiots.

:grr:

[caseymoz]

34. The aptly named plan B.

Now I'm not an engineer, and I know nothing about cutting edge materials, but how is this mud and concrete supposed to set with the pressure that geyser has coming out of it? Much less ever reach the place where it can stop the leak?

So, where is the safety technology that was supposed to be there in case of a blow-out like this? Did BP and other corporations really restrain their greed enough, or question their arrogance enough to handle safety or damage control?

[defendandprotect]

56. Evidently, about 90% of the wells Halliburton has cemented have erupted???

How did they block those?

Certainly looks like they don't have a clue about a Plan B!!

Are they still trying to burn this stuff off or did weather interfere???

[caseymoz]

74. The not so good news . . .

. . . but better than most is that will have no problem getting oil now. All we'll have to do is extract it from the oceans. Of course we can't get gasoline or anything like that, because that evaporates off. But for tar, all we'll have to do is scrape it off the beaches.

[defendandprotect]

75. We can all fill our fish tanks with oil drenched water -- !!

Nationalize the oil industry -- !!

[caseymoz]

78. If this turns into a global crisis, or even an oceanic one,

I'm thinking that nobody will ever trust the oil industry again, nor will they trust corporations.

I'm just hoping somebody is alive after this.

[defendandprotect]

79. Sad, but while no one wishes it, sometimes it's only when things get

this bad that people wake up --

I wonder when they ever looked at these situations if they ever envisioned how

much harm something like this could do -- it's absolutely frightening.

Many ways that this whole thing can compound and at the moment it looks like 90 days!!

"Oh, the humanities" -- "Oh, the animal-life!" --

[ima_sinnic]

35. oh, brilliant--are they using debris already polluting the ocean, or just adding to it?

after their shredded tires, plastic, and other garbage, toxic waste, and pollutants are spewn into the ocean, what then?

just let the fucking thing run until it runs out. we might as well put a gun to the head of the earth and be done with it.

meanwhile, Obama is considering giving BP a "safety award" and "thinking about" whether he'll "reconsider" drilling for oil. no mention has been made of abandoning oil in favor of something like, oh, solar, wind, etc etc.--you know, things that won't kill the planet. But who cares about a stinking planet where there is money to be made. the fucking greedhead capitalist pigs will not stop until the entire planet is dead. what right do they have to do that, anyway? they all should be jailed and executed.

[dotymed]

37. Agreed (greed..)

Why can't they take an engineer that builds those shut-offs down in the submersible and have him rebuild it? They said the submersibles are agile enough to manipulate a screwdriver. If they really do have one down there, it seems that they could have it rebuild it in place...

[humbled_opinion]

38. I am with you

This should be a launch platform for Progressives get us off of OIL now... The Planet cannot take spills of this magnitude and survive.

Government take control of all US drilling NOW.

Put in place a plan to remove all gasoline engine vehicles from distribution and replace with electric or other non petroleum alternatives.

The government can help the lower income folks among us with a one for one trade in your gas car for a brand new electric one no cost.

The richer among us can pay a huge tax to continue with their gas cars or pay a rate based on income for an alternative vehicle. Thats how you make everyone share the pain and have skin in the game.

That is the only direction we need to go and once we are off of oil it solves almost every foreign policy challenge that we have the money that we will save will offset any costs to the government to enact this plan.

Obama we need a real hero, get off your ass and actually do something.

[ima_sinnic]

52. that's far too forward thinking for an administration that claims to want to "look forward"

I have despaired of there ever being a day when those "in charge" will ever abandon "business as usual." Their mindset on this is to "fix it" and "move on" to more drilling.

In 2008 I thought the tyranny and treason of bushco meant we would surely move to a higher level, that the election of 2008 would mark a new beginning of the end of "business as usual." I WAS SO WRONG ON THAT ONE!

even in the face of the end of life as we know it, profit is king, and preservation of the status quo the only thing they know and care about.

When I think of the "if only's"--if only Al Gore, if only Howard Dean, if only "Change We Can Believe In" hadn't been a slick, empty slogan ...

and now "slick" is a double entendre :cry:

[riverdale]

66. Gore basically campaigned as a Republican and picked Joe Lieberman for VP

I really harbored no hopes that he would have been any more progressive than Obama turned out to be.

[defendandprotect]

80. Sad, but true . . .

often wondered if it would have been as bad as Bush/Cheney --

especially with the demented Lieberman in the picture --

assassination?

[ima_sinnic]

81. sheesh, Lieberman was a plant

wow, they intended to install themselves no matter what.
if they couldn't pull off jr. shitstain, they could go to plan B. from there, manipulate the hell out of things--it probably would have been like the current conservo-kiss-ass love-fest.
but I like to think 9/11 wouldn't have happened (but with Lieberman in there as the proxy cheney--who the hell knows?), and that climate change would have gotten a lot of attention, along with alternative energy . . .

[ronnie624]

68. *

:thumbsup:

[Yeahyeah]

39. This is a job for Doc Johnson.

[TK421]

40. Why don't they just try shouting profanity at it?

I still cannot fucking believe there was no plan to remedy this in case of an accident

[felinetta]

41. Nothing like de-regulation and free market. How much more proof do we need to kick these people out

[Iliyah]

43. All their

effin money. This just shows they don't give a shit.

Now Pappa Cheney has his daughter out perusal the air waves talking crap in order to deter from the oil spill, well until they find a loophole and can blame the administration who has been in office since Jan. 2009.

[complain jane]

47. What?

You think this is actually going to change anything?

[defendandprotect]

58. Oh . . . Yes!! Yes!!

:applause:



Capitalism is a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move the

wealth and natural resources of any nation from the many to the few.

And, does that quite successfully!

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime!!

So, why exactly are we still using this system of predatory capitalism??


:eyes:


:crazy:


:nuke:

[Mark D.]

42. I've Said It Elsewhere

I'll say it again. I don't know how they can stop it. They may not know. But this is a threat to the entire world for decades. Several US states and several nations in South and Central America could be threatened too. BP and Haliburton should pay for whatever has to be paid for eventually. But first things first. Stop the leak. Make a permanent seal. Then clean up the oil. This should be open season for every nation capable of it. Every available navy, every scientist. Postpone the 'create a black hole' project in Switzerland. Put scientists to work to find ways to disperse and dispose of the oil in clean up, in a non-toxic way.

Put enineers at GE to work, not making more weapons (they are the biggest weapons manufacturer) but figuring out devices to not only stop this one, but to be used in possible future oil well leaks. If mankind can do anything, as one, if we can unite on one thing, it should be to stop this and clean it up as soon as possible. Then send BP and Haliburton the F***ing bill. Every day that this goes on could mean millions more in damage to habitats, and fishing, and countless wildlife wiped out. The world sits and watches this stupid company, BP, that started this, struggle to fix it, so far, without making a dent in this nightmare!

[defendandprotect]

55. This will be a major kill off of animal-life ... fishing... as an industry/food source . . .

[givemebackmycountry]

44. I Can't believe it... All you smart DU'ers and we know we are smart...

We are missing the obvious solution, one that everyone in this thread has missed.
MONEY.
Shit, it absorbs cocaine residue for years.
MONEY.
We stuff the five foot wide gaping, gushing, VOLCANO of filthy OIL spilling at a unknown rate, with MONEY.
WE HAVE SO MUCH OF IT.
Stuff it from bottom to top with "footballs" of cash (we had those in Iraq, remember?) and surely it will stem the tide of precious oil that's currently about to FUCK THE ENTIRE GULF COAST UP to the point where it's going to be a afterthought.
Hey Haley Barbour, there goes your Presidential aspirations you drill baby drill asshole.

This is bad,
This is really bad.

[troubledamerican]

45. January 2011: Oil leak slows, oil slick reaches Brazil, Gulf declared dead

[defendandprotect]

59. Hey . . . I'm sure capitalists know how to make a fish from scratch -- !!!

We'll just create the whole thing all over again!!!

"Man's Dominion Over Nature" and all that BS . . . you know!!

:sarcasm:







Why are we still fooling around with predatory capitalism?


:eyes:


:crazy:


:nuke:

[alp227]

46. But trash can be penetrable, right?

Sigh. I really think that there'll be an apocalypse in a couple years. Nothing seems to be helping. Hell, oil from Exxon Valdez is still polluting the Prince William Sound.

[complain jane]

48. Plug it with Dick Cheney and we can turn out the lights and go home.

[backscatter712]

51. They're going with a "top kill". Could work, could backfire...

It has been done before, but not at 5,000 feet deep.

And there's a bit of method to the madness. They'll be creating layers when they do this, starting with a rubber layer (the shredded tires), followed by heavy drilling mud & solid objects like golf balls, to make the plug heavy, then finally the last layer will be cement to seal it up for good.

I just hope they have an idea of how to do this without overpressuring the well - if there's another methane bubble, or a bunch of oil down below with methane dissolved in it like CO2 in soda, they could easily spike the pressure and have yet another blowout. The piping's already damaged from the last blowout and all the sand that's been eroding it from the inside.

Sounds like a Hail Mary to me... Let's hope they don't throw an interception...

[defendandprotect]

54. Presume this was an impossible idea, but would someone tell me why???

Why couldn't they have sent boats in right away and put lines out to pull up the oil into

those tankers? The oil would be heavier than the water and the water could quickly be

discharged? Must be a good reason???

Efforts to stop the flow could continue but they could have tried this to contain the spill??

Would the problem be not enough empty tankers?

[Ruby the Liberal]

62. The problem is where the leak is coming from

When the rig sank, it turned the massive pipeline from the rig to the well into a pretzel for all intents and purposes. Where the pipeline kinked and split is where the oil is now gushing out (as well as the now disconnected end).

There is nothing to attach to to collect the oil - why they were trying the 'dome'. It is just free-flowing at 5,000 feet below the surface from busted pipes.

[defendandprotect]

70. All you have to do is put lines/pumps into the water and collect oil/seawater . . ..

then discharge the seawater --

as tankers filled up they could take oil to a central location to offload --

and then back again to pick up more oil . . . while others work to cap the well commenced.





If they can use huge ships to suck up sand from off shore and pump it back on shore as

sand-replacement, certainly they could pick up oil . . . it seems!!???

[Ruby the Liberal]

82. Apparently, it is now 25,000 barrels a day (see LBN for reports)

That would be like trying to capture a firehose with a McDonald's straw.

[On the Road]

64. Pulling Up the Oil Into the Tankers

was the goal when the dome was lowered. It was supposed to contain the petroleum and allow it to be funnelled the liquid into to a tube to the suface.

Crude oil, however, is lighter than water. Otherwise it wouldn't float.

[defendandprotect]

71. OK . . . thanks . . . better answer --

[NuttyFluffers]

63. reality again trumps fiction. another comedy of errors!

it's almost beautiful lunacy if written out in a book, if we weren't living through it. after 8 years of Bush Jr. i had no idea that the hits would keep on coming. i think my dark humor meter is almost full, i wonder if it ever overloads and breaks...

[Incitatus]

65. thousands of gallons of toxic "dispersants", a four story building, setting it on fire

now let's dump garbage on it

What will they think of next?

[whopis01]

67. Clearly, the next step will be to create a gigantic rug to just pull over it... n/t

[joe black]

69. Why can't they put a larger pipe over the original pipe?

You know, like a sleeve, couldn't they ram it into the ground past the surface of the bottom floor over the original pipe. I'm sure it's already been thought of.

[Nihil]

83. From memory ...

> Why can't they put a larger pipe over the original pipe?
> You know, like a sleeve, couldn't they ram it into the ground past the surface
> of the bottom floor over the original pipe.

That is one of their options but the problem with this is the existing pipe
(the ~5000' of bent pipe now lying on the seabed but still plugged in at
the wellhead).

The original pipe would have to be cut before any "overpipe" could be placed.

This means that there would be nothing to impede the maximum flow from the
reservoir until that "overpipe" was successfully emplaced and sealed.

It means that the full pressure (still unknown to acceptable accuracy AFAIK)
will be driving the crude jet straight up into the Gulf while puny remote
controlled subs try to seat a 1 mile pipe on top of this incredibly powerful
"fountain" in near-zero visibility and unknown turbulence.

Yes, the idea has already been thought of but the risks involved have pushed
it to close to a last resort status.

:scared:

(Mind you, that's still ahead of the typical "nuke the f*cker" response that
you see on most blogs - DU included).

[No Elephants]

76. A garbage pile bigger than Texas already occupies the ocean.